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TNET: Former Clemson coach sees parallel in QB situation
Jul 20, 2018, 7:01 AM
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Orange Immortal [65180]
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Pulling Simmons and playing Whitehurst was the hardest???
Jul 20, 2018, 7:14 AM
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Really Tommy?
How about pulling Reggie Merriweather in the 4th against SCar in 2004?
Why are we still talking about this blow-hard on here? The only benefit to hearing Tommy weigh-in on today's Tigers is to remind ourselves how good we have it now with the current staff.
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Clemson Icon [26454]
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That wasn't a hard decision....
Jul 20, 2018, 7:43 AM
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It was his dumbest.
hth
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Top TigerNet [32778]
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and this ^^^***
Jul 20, 2018, 12:22 PM
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Gridiron Giant [16073]
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110%er [3805]
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Re: Pulling Simmons and playing Whitehurst was the hardest???
Jul 20, 2018, 7:52 AM
[ in reply to Pulling Simmons and playing Whitehurst was the hardest??? ] |
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No offense to JD, but there weren't 11 men on this planet tbat were going to stop RM that night. Dude had something to prove and he was on a mission.
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Letterman [294]
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Dynasty Maker [3300]
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Re: Pulling Simmons and playing Whitehurst was the hardest???
Jul 20, 2018, 11:08 AM
[ in reply to Pulling Simmons and playing Whitehurst was the hardest??? ] |
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Ahh man--you just had to re-open that wound. Merriweather takes us down the field. Pull him for an injured James Davis who struggled that day and run the same freaking play 4 times--Rob Spence--who cost Bowden his job because Bowden couldn't fire his friend and church member.
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Orange Immortal [62797]
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Re: Pulling Simmons and playing Whitehurst was the hardest???
Sep 1, 2018, 1:41 PM
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Yep, Rob Spence wasn't stupid in how to suck up to TB, just go to his church regularly and talk about religion in every private conversation they had, and TB swallowed his BS hook line and sinker. TDP wanted Spence out of Clemson, and Dabo didn't waste a second in telling Spence he had to take his bubble screen offense some where else bc it didn't fit his plans any longer at Clemson!!! It didn't take Dabo but a short minute to put Keven Steele in the road. And Dabo will do the right thing with the QB's if necessary....
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Top TigerNet [32778]
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Athletic Dir [1161]
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Orange Immortal [65180]
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u rite.***
Jul 20, 2018, 2:33 PM
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Varsity [224]
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Re: TNET: Former Clemson coach sees parallel in QB situation
Jul 20, 2018, 7:35 AM
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The legend of Charlie Whitehurst began in 2002 in the 4th quarter vs Duke, a furious comeback. We had a mediocre defense that year, which ended with a bowl thrashing at the hands of Texas Tech and Kliff Kingsbury, if I recall correctly. In 2003, Tommy Bowden and Whitehurst delivered the epic 63-17 over South Carolina. Honestly, that's where I like to leave the legacy of Bowden - he was great at beating the Gamecocks.
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Dynasty Maker [3300]
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Re: TNET: Former Clemson coach sees parallel in QB situation
Jul 20, 2018, 11:10 AM
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and he left Charlie in to get his brains beat out. Epic
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Gridiron Giant [16073]
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Clemson Sports Icon [59324]
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Why do y'all keep posting analysis from Tommy Bowden. I
Jul 20, 2018, 7:45 AM
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personally, have zero interest in his thoughts on our current situation. JMHO.
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Top TigerNet [30601]
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I will say this for Willie Simmons ....
Jul 20, 2018, 8:53 AM
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I was driving back to Virginia and listening to the Clemson @ UNC game on the radio.
Dantzler got hurt in the 1st half, and Simmons came in and led the Tigers to victory.
I will never forget it because it was a great comeback win over the lousy cheating Tarholes.
http://assets.espn.go.com/ncf/2000/20001021/recap/cclnnl.html
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110%er [4090]
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i recall that game very well ! The Tarholes were so mouthy at the half!
Jul 20, 2018, 9:13 AM
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I recall once we came back and had the game won one particular rotund but younger Tarhole leaving saying "Just wait until
Basketball season"
Lol
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Oculus Spirit [39364]
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Re: i recall that game very well ! The Tarholes were so mouthy at the half!
Sep 1, 2018, 10:19 AM
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And then you said. .. " Yep , ya'll are gonna have to , losers . "
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Oculus Spirit [39224]
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Those two UNC games were great...
Jul 21, 2018, 6:38 AM
[ in reply to I will say this for Willie Simmons .... ] |
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same situation basically in both. They have a great gameplan for the starter (pocket passer in the first game, scrambler in the second) and then when they go down and the backups come in (opposite styles in both cases), they're lost and our offense rolls. Glorious. I miss playing UNC regularly in football.
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Scout Team [164]
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Not sure why everyone is so hard on Tommy.
Jul 20, 2018, 8:53 AM
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He put the tires on the car before Dabo took off and drove it the way it was supposed to be.
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Top TigerNet [30601]
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TB never believed Clemson could be a national power again.
Jul 20, 2018, 9:00 AM
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He felt his Diddy's team would the benchmark forever in the ACC.
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CU Guru [1149]
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Nonsense. People think TB was great because a lot of them
Jul 20, 2018, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to Not sure why everyone is so hard on Tommy. ] |
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only had Hatfield and West to compare him to. Bowden improved facilities somewhat and landed a few good players. He also made the decision to hire Dabo. That's where it ends. I don't believe for one second even Bowden knew just how great a coach Dabo would become.
Bowden was a train wreck of a coach. If he was worth the paper HIS NAME is written on, he'd still be coaching somewhere. Getting into coaching was a business decision for him, not a love of the game and the young people in his charge. Playing the Alabama and Arkansas openings for a better contract from Clemson is all anyone really needs to know.
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Paw Warrior [5074]
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Re: Nonsense. People think TB was great because a lot of them
Jul 20, 2018, 11:06 AM
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I get the opinions of people not thinking he was a very good coach, and obviously we're much better off now. I don't get however all the hate for the man that so many still seem to have here. He was a nice guy, and yes he didn't get our program to the heights that Dabo has, but he still left the program in better shape than he found it in. To listen to people talk, you'd think he was the coach who took over right after Danny Ford and then ran the program into the ground before Dabo came along and saved it.
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Orange Immortal [62797]
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Re: Nonsense. People think TB was great because a lot of them
Jul 20, 2018, 11:29 AM
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He replaced T.West, and T.Bowden was a h&ll of an improvement at that time!!!
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CU Guru [1149]
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He was a fraud, and arrogant on top of it. He got the
Jul 20, 2018, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Nonsense. People think TB was great because a lot of them ] |
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Clemson job for 2 reasons: His name and because he got the credit when Rich Rodriguez and Shawn King made him look like a much better coach the one season they went undefeated at Tulane. He didn't love Clemson, he loved Tommy. He didn't hate losing and it showed in a lot of losses and games barely won. He made one condescending excuse after another. He had mostly contempt for the fans, an arrogant trait he learned from his father. And before you ask, I've heard Tommy and Bobby make derogatory remarks about fans with my own ears, when the fans were in the right for expecting accountability for some poor performances.
He had a lot of people snowed. One of the most well known players from his teams is a friend of mine and my suspicions have been mostly confirmed. There's a reason he lost the team, most of the fans, and his job. What we saw on the field was a manifestation of some other issues. I don't hate the man, it just aggravates me every time I see the halfass defense of 'he was a nice guy' or 'he left us better than we were'. Well, no kidding. He didn't have far to go in that regard, did he? I don't watch him on TV and I don't care to see or hear anything he has to say about Clemson or otherwise. He has minimal credibility in my eyes.
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Trainer [25]
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Re: He was a fraud, and arrogant on top of it. He got the
Jul 21, 2018, 12:30 AM
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Yeah, as far as contempt for the fans goes I once saw Bowden be incredibly rude to none other than Ed Garrison - I can only guess that Bowden didn't know who he was. Bowden treated him like some senile old hack and walked off with his nose in the air while Garrison was trying to talk to him.
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Tiger Titan [50718]
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Thank you for posting this.
Jul 21, 2018, 9:46 PM
[ in reply to He was a fraud, and arrogant on top of it. He got the ] |
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I am not aware of Tommy Bowden ever being nice to someone he wasn't expected to be nice to. I'm sure if you ask his bosses, coworkers, and those close to him, you'll hear that he is a nice guy. But I have heard many examples of him coming across as arrogant in everyday situations. Maybe that wasn't his intention, but he sure gave off that "don't bother me" vibe a lot of the time. I've wondered if, rather than being a true jerk, he is just an introvert who borders on being shy. He never seemed to feel comfortable in the public eye. He never seemed to be comfortable in interviews and press conferences. Even the coaches' show after the game each week seemed like a huge stretch for him.
I'm not sure that he loved football, but I do think he was smart enough to see coaching as a great opportunity for himself. I think he saw that he had an "in" due to his father's successes. That helped him get various jobs in the ACC and SEC, and certainly played a role in him becoming our head coach. The two biggest keys to Tommy's rise in the coaching ranks were:
1. His dad/the Bowden name
2. Rich Rodriguez
Think about it. Tommy Bowden was an assistant until he got the job at Tulane. Tulane was, and still is, a crappy job. He had one decent season, and one outstanding season there. Shaun King, and to a greater extent, Rich Rodriguez, are the main reasons for that undefeated season. And that undefeated season got him the job at Clemson. I was thrilled with the hire at the time. Here was a young coach who seemingly worked miracles at Tulane, using a fast-paced offense. Plus, he was Bobby Bowden's son, so surely he knew a lot. At the time Bobby Bowden was untouchable, so it seemed that whoever hired Tommy was getting the next best thing.
I don't think Bowden did poorly at Clemson, but he sure didn't do anything spectacular. As others have said, the roller coaster of inconsistency got really old. Our administration and fans were really patient with him. Too patient, in fact.
And please, let's stop giving him credit for Dabo being our coach. That goes to TDP for seeing Dabo's potential and taking a huge risk on him.
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Athletic Dir [1161]
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Re: Nonsense. People think TB was great because a lot of them
Jul 20, 2018, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Nonsense. People think TB was great because a lot of them ] |
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i think the most were sick and tired of the ups and downs.. beating miami, lose to duke... lose to wake, beat fsu... and, yes, he was an upgrade from West.. but, in 2008 everyone was like.. "ok.. we've been on a roller coaster w/ CTB for about 10 yrs.. but, we have all the pieces, now.. we're pre-season top 10.. we have tons of weapons.. awesome recruiting.. this is our year!"
and, then we went 3-3 in our first 6 games w/ losses to bama, maryland and wake.. and, wins over the citadel, nc state and sc state... i said it back then and i'll say it again.. ANYONE... ANYONE... A-N-Y-O-N-E... coulda coached us to a 3-3 record at that point... anyone.
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Oculus Spirit [39224]
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He had his defenders almost to the end...
Jul 21, 2018, 6:48 AM
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after the Wake loss in his last game they did disappear, but #### it took them a long time.
The absolute best things I can say about Tommy is that he hired Dabo and beat South Carolina.
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All-Conference [402]
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Re: Nonsense. People think TB was great because a lot of them
Sep 1, 2018, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to Nonsense. People think TB was great because a lot of them ] |
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People think TB was great because of Rich Rod. They went undefeated at Tulane, then seemed to turn the program around after Tommy West. Woodrow Dantzler was a perfect fit for Rich Rod's offense. First 2000/1000 quarterback ever.
He was also playing with Tommy West's players. West's players were tough, but not very talented and poorly coached. Bowden brought the Charmin ultra-soft culture to Clemson and it showed.
Either way, when Rich Rod left for West Virginia, we went back to mediocrity.
When Tommy Bowden said that he couldn't get players up for every game after another inexplicable loss to either Wake or Duke, he should have been fired immediately. Instead, we kept him for another few seasons.
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Campus Hero [13169]
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Re: Not sure why everyone is so hard on Tommy.
Jul 20, 2018, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Not sure why everyone is so hard on Tommy. ] |
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I agree! Tommy always represented Clemson well. Tommy got the momentum going for facility upgrades and was the HC when we recruited some top shelf players like Whitehurst, James Davis, Spiller, that started to bring Clemson back into the National spotlight!
Then let's not forget we wouldn't have Dabo and Jeff Scott without CTB.
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Dynasty Maker [3300]
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Re: Not sure why everyone is so hard on Tommy.
Jul 20, 2018, 11:19 AM
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He was the one who made the changes and got us facilities when what we had was 2nd best. He's a good man who probably would've made a great administrator. He just could not make tough staff changes. Someone had to be tough and when Rodriquez left, that was it.
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Orange Immortal [62797]
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Re: Not sure why everyone is so hard on Tommy.
Jul 20, 2018, 11:38 AM
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I think that the admin would have approved a better, pricier OC than Rob Spence at that time of his hire!!!
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Campus Hero [13169]
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Re: Not sure why everyone is so hard on Tommy.
Jul 20, 2018, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Not sure why everyone is so hard on Tommy. ] |
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I agree! Tommy always represented Clemson well. Tommy got the momentum going for facility upgrades and was the HC when we recruited some top shelf players like Whitehurst, James Davis, Spiller, that started to bring Clemson back into the National spotlight!
Then let's not forget we wouldn't have Dabo and Jeff Scott without CTB.
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Oculus Spirit [39364]
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Hall of Famer [8226]
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more delusion from Tommy Bowden
Jul 20, 2018, 9:05 AM
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The situation isn't similar at all. Currently we have two elite quarterbacks battling to lead an elite team. Under Bowden we had A desperate coach trying to save his job and would've played bozo the clown at QB if he thought he could beat Duke
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Top TigerNet [30601]
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Harsh, but true.***
Jul 20, 2018, 9:08 AM
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TigerNet Elite [69791]
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Maybe it's just me...
Jul 20, 2018, 10:50 AM
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but does ANYONE really give a $#!7 what this guy says or thinks ?!?!?!
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Head Coach [931]
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A few perspectives...
Jul 20, 2018, 7:52 PM
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1) What hasn't been mentioned is that Willie was a class act in his benching. He was Tiger
through and through and my hats off to him for that.
2) Ken Hatfield was 55–17–1 at Arkansas and 32–13–1 ( he sucked at Rice but Rice has always sucked) for a coaching record of 87-30-2. Not a bad record. He coached the Tigers to the 1991 ACC Championship and it was 30 years before we won another one.He had 3 out 4 seasons with a winning record . He won 3 out of 4 against the Cooters. He was a good Christian man and we got Tommy West when he left...Karma's a B*tch .He just wasn't Danny Ford. He didn't kill a dang thing....the AD etc did that .
3) Tommy B couldn't get it done. He always blamed everyone else but himself for the Clemson loses and program. He wasn't a bad guy he just wasn't consistent...even with some dang good talent. Like has been said..he hired Dabo...for that he get my eternal thanks .
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Team Captain [494]
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Re: A few perspectives...
Jul 21, 2018, 10:33 PM
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In regards to Ken Hatfield, he had success his first time years at Clemson because he was playing with Danny Ford's players. Danny had those teams set up to win a couple of National Championships. Now Danny may have have still possibly blown a game with one of those two teams but Hatfield won because of Danny and the players Danny recruited. That defense was built like todays defense. Anything short of a national championship in those two years is a disappointment. There was nothing good about the 10-2 season under Hatfield.
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All-Conference [402]
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Re: A few perspectives...
Sep 1, 2018, 10:14 AM
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Hatfield struggled to recruit because of NCAA sanctions and because some boosters were undermining him.
The 1990 team lost to a UVA team that got up to #1 and a GT team that finished #1. The year before, Danny lost to that same GT team and a Duke team coached by a young Steve Spurrier.
His worst season was 1992, after we lost our starting and backup QB.
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Oculus Spirit [39364]
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Re: A few perspectives...
Sep 1, 2018, 10:28 AM
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Anyone wanna defend Charlie Pell ?
Yeah , I didn't think so .
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110%er [8867]
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Re: A few perspectives...
Sep 1, 2018, 10:34 AM
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How many programs did he take down. He destroyed our program at Clemson and went to Florida and did the same thing. There were probably other programs along the way
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Oculus Spirit [39364]
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Re: A few perspectives...
Sep 1, 2018, 10:39 AM
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jeancooper with the introspection !
Scre\/\/ you , Charlie P×l_ |_
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Tiger Titan [50718]
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Great post, and a very fair look at Hatfield's tenure.
Sep 1, 2018, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: A few perspectives... ] |
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Some people are still butthurt about Hatfield, over 25 years later. It's sad, really.
The reality is that Danny Ford wasn't as great as people remember, and Hatfield wasn't as bad as people remember.
More importantly, Tommy West was an awful hire, and although he was a nice guy, our program slipped big time under his watch.
Bowden was okay, and left things better than he found them, but it was obvious after year four that the secret sauce to Bowden's coaching success was Rich Rodriguez. Bowden himself was an average to slightly above average coach, and was never going to get us to be consistent contenders for conference championships and BCS bowls.
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Replies: 45
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