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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 4, 2025, 12:59 PM
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We've got the current testimony with RFK Jr. right now getting heated over life-saving treatments that are one of the greatest medical miracles in human history.
RFK Jr. is an absolutely certifiable whackjob leftist who has somehow convinced far right MAGAs and spineless GOP Congressmen that vaccines are a risk. He's a man who grew up and benefited from those vaccinations. And now we have them celebrating Florida's recent decision.
How did we go from leading the charge in fighting these deadly diseases for children to now questioning the vaccines over a myth: That they cause autism, which they ####### don't. Flat out proven that they don't.
The rest of the civilized world has to be laughing at us.
I know physicians who supported Trump in the first go round who said they would never even consider it again because of RFK Jr.
The man is a loon, and so is anyone who follows him. Kids are going to die over this. Or be crippled. Hell, he's already responsible for children deaths.
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Tiger Titan [49170]
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this is soooo well said, Cata***
Sep 4, 2025, 1:04 PM
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Top TigerNet [32476]
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You know who doesn't believe in vaccines ? ... ? ... Troy, that's who ...
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Sep 4, 2025, 1:06 PM
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we should bludgeon them for their transgression.
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Paw Master [16890]
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Wrong board moron***
Sep 4, 2025, 1:07 PM
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Campus Hero [13396]
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Get a sense of humor moron
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Sep 7, 2025, 9:25 PM
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SMH
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Paw Master [16890]
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When you exclusively hire idiots; all you get in return is idiocy***
Sep 4, 2025, 1:08 PM
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Orange Phenom [14958]
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I hate to be repetitive but
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Sep 4, 2025, 1:13 PM
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maggers are FN stupid. Truth to them is not based on scientific fact or any facts, but on anything what comes out of the orange clowns mouth. So F them, cotdam all of them. They’re making America shiddier by the minute.
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Paw Master [16911]
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One of the mom's in our circles won't allow red dye
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Sep 4, 2025, 2:03 PM
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for her kid due to RFK.
Couldn't eat the confetti cake at our birthday party.
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Paw Master [17352]
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Re: One of the mom's in our circles won't allow red dye
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Sep 4, 2025, 2:15 PM
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Actually ted food dye is terrible for your health
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Paw Warrior [4873]
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Re: One of the mom's in our circles won't allow red dye
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Sep 4, 2025, 2:25 PM
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If you ate/drank gallons of it, yes. Aside from a few kids/people who may be allergic, etc…it’s not the devil many think.
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Campus Hero [13396]
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Re: One of the mom's in our circles won't allow red dye
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Sep 7, 2025, 9:34 PM
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Mercury in tiny enough amounts is OK. So is Plutonium. So is Arsenic. So is phosgene. So is isocyanate.
There are always thresholds below which a substance has negligible impacts on human health. These threashholds may be very very very small, yet nonetheless that is the way it is.
xxxxxxxx
That said, our health authorities have proven to not be trustworthy. Not being trustworthy does not mean that everything they recommend is wrong or nefarious. It means that implicit trust in all of their recommendations is no longer justifiable.
Europe’s health agencies say nix to the petrochemical based red and yellow dyes. We have less data to distrust European health agencies than we do America’s health agencies. I’m going with what they recommend as opposed to what the FDA says us ‘settled science.’
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Paw Warrior [4873]
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Re: One of the mom's in our circles won't allow red dye
Sep 7, 2025, 9:55 PM
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Water in large enough quantities is also dangerous to the human body.
Europe doesn’t ban Red Dye 40…just provides a warning label…no different that packs of cigs or those warnings on your bottle of Chlorpromazine.
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All-Time Great [92147]
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Campus Hero [13396]
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Re: The sugar in the cake was worse for your health than the little bit of dye***
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Sep 7, 2025, 9:35 PM
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Stupid argument.
Heroin is not as dangerous as fentanyl. Therefore, people shouldn’t worry about heroin.
SMH.
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All-Time Great [92147]
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God you're an idiot***
Sep 8, 2025, 2:01 PM
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All-Time Great [94306]
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Friend of's wife is all into the anti seed oil, red dye, and all the anti vaxxer
Sep 4, 2025, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to One of the mom's in our circles won't allow red dye ] |
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things, and recently has been going off on not allowing her kids to bathe (much less drink) our tap water.
It's getting crazy out there.
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TigerNet Icon [160496]
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I would bet my house that if you ask her if those dyes are banned in
Sep 4, 2025, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to One of the mom's in our circles won't allow red dye ] |
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Europe, she'd swear they are, and she'd be wholly incorrect. It's a very stupid talking point that was propagated to distract from the very real damage our healthcare policies and approach are actually inflicting on Americans, especially with the recent billions in healthcare cuts in the BBB. It ain't about food dyes. That's a sleight of hand to make people ignore actual issues.
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Oculus Spirit [43456]
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I avoid food with dye
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Sep 6, 2025, 4:55 AM
[ in reply to One of the mom's in our circles won't allow red dye ] |
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I see no reason to have my food artificially dyed. I avoid seed oil and processed foods as much as possible too.
Eating healthy saves a lot of money. A pound of potatoes cost less than a dollar a pound of potato chips cost about 6 or 7 dollars. A pound of carrots cost maybe 2 dollars, lb of cheezits cost about 5 bucks. Fresh fruit and veggies are cheaper than processed foods you just have to be smart about it.
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All-Time Great [94306]
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a pound of cheeze its seems like A LOT of cheese its***
Sep 8, 2025, 2:56 PM
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Paw Master [17352]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 4, 2025, 2:13 PM
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Correct me if I’m wrong but I think RFK has only suggested to evaluate if a vaccine is right for you or your child I don’t think he is on record saying do not vaccinate but rather to educate yourself before making that decision
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Paw Master [17536]
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Educate where?
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Sep 4, 2025, 2:38 PM
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The list of Pediatricians or Infectious Disease physicians who would say the downside to taking the standard vaccinations recommended to kids outweighs the benefits is a very, very short list, virtually nonexistent.
The internet and non scientific community, Facebook and Instagram warriors is a very long list of misguided people with little knowledge of what they speak re: vaccines.
Choose your place of education wisely.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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Unfortunately, no.
Sep 4, 2025, 4:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines? ] |
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His actions are pushing us further into an anti-vax culture and hurting vaccine securities at the CDC as well as embracing the debunked theories of anti-vax crackpots. There's a reason there's such a bipartisan push to get him out.
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Campus Hero [13396]
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Re: Unfortunately, no.
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Sep 7, 2025, 9:37 PM
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RFK Jr has dared to point out numerous instances … not all of which are vax related, albeit some of them are ..l in which our health agencies have betrayed our trust.
RFK Jr is the outcome from that betrayal of trust.
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Rival Killer [2870]
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Ya, except for a incredibly tiny percentage of the
Sep 4, 2025, 5:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines? ] |
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population, that’s stupid. Parents are not doctors, and they should all just do whatever the doctor says, not make their own decisions about vaccinations.
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Tiger Titan [51057]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 4, 2025, 2:13 PM
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This single image right here. This was the exact, literal watershed moment. The whole paradigm changed after this photo hit the wire. And we've never come back.
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TigerNet Icon [160496]
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Your medical degrees and training are worthless.
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Sep 4, 2025, 3:40 PM
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I have Facebook.
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Tiger Titan [51057]
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It wasn't even that, but even this post is a symptom of it.
Sep 4, 2025, 11:04 PM
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After this photo hit the wire, COVID became a political football game. Partisan lines were finely drawn, whereas before, the measures taken, were hated/tolerated generally in a non-partisan way. But after this photo, which clearly has two subjects, representing two different nascent factions beginning to form, it was on. Republicans hitched their wagon to the truck lady. Democrats did the same with the nurse.
From there, it morphed into "freedom" versus "science."
And all the good, with even more of the bad, got lumped under one or the other. Not surprisingly, freedom got a little worse, and science got a little less reputable.
But man. It was this photo that did it. It lit the powder.
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CU Medallion [19045]
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Top TigerNet [30998]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 4, 2025, 2:16 PM
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The internet.
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110%er [3796]
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How we got here was that anti-vaxxers used the pandemic to their advantage...
Sep 4, 2025, 3:05 PM
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That was their moment to maximize their propaganda assault on the vaccines of all types, and they took advantage of it.
And now anti-vaxx sentiment, which used to be mostly a left-wing hippee thing, is now mostly on the right. So, of course MAGA is where it goes to get amplified.
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Paw Master [16911]
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The gubmit ain't got no right to tell me what to do with my body
Sep 4, 2025, 4:01 PM
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unless it's not to destroy my fetus? Wait whut? I'm confused.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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ramp up abortions
Sep 5, 2025, 10:20 AM
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tape don't lie there either. let's open the floodgates baby!!
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: The gubmit ain't got no right to tell me what to do with my body
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Sep 5, 2025, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to The gubmit ain't got no right to tell me what to do with my body ] |
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Anyone who can look at an actual 24 week newborn while saying a Constitutional right exists to kill it a day earlier, or a week earlier, or 2 weeks earlier, or ..., has bought into an evil he doesn't understand. The left's platform is no restrictions, ever.
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Gridiron Giant [15672]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 4, 2025, 4:05 PM
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We’ve came full circle. I could almost bet the house that only a decade or so ago, it was leftists who were anti-vax and now it’s the #### republicans. Geez
It was rare that I heard a republican spouting off anti vax ####.
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Top TigerNet [30998]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 4, 2025, 5:48 PM
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They are more into conspiracies in 2025.
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Orange Phenom [14419]
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It's horrible
Sep 4, 2025, 4:06 PM
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Would have been helpful if the COVID vaccine actually prevented people from contracting COVID
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Asst Coach [859]
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Re: It's horrible
Sep 4, 2025, 5:04 PM
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It did prevent a lot of deaths which is why pubs died at a higher rate than dems once it was available
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CU Medallion [19045]
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They have an r on their death certificate?***
Sep 4, 2025, 5:12 PM
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Asst Coach [859]
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Of course you arent aware of the concept of cross referencing, too focused on
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Sep 4, 2025, 8:20 PM
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Cross dressing.
Here you go stupid:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10366951/or
“To assess the association between political party affiliation and excess mortality for individuals during the COVID-19 pandemic, we linked voter registration data in Florida and Ohio to mortality data at the individual level to calculate excess death rates for Republican and Democratic voters and compare excess death rates before and after vaccines became available to the full adult population.”
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Ultimate Tiger [36428]
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110%er [3796]
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CU Medallion [19045]
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This study brought to you by Pfizer.***
Sep 4, 2025, 6:00 PM
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Tiger Titan [51057]
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Commie.***
Sep 4, 2025, 8:26 PM
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: Well, people that got the vaccines for Covid....
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Sep 5, 2025, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to Well, people that got the vaccines for Covid.... ] |
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This would be an interesting analysis. Correlation vs causation. Differences in vaccine rates would have had minor differences in death rates in most of the population. We know where the deaths came from, mostly old and comorbid. So, it would seem that fewer vaccines were taken in that demographic.
Is it possible that older people tend to be registered republican? Could it also be that older people were more hesitant to get vaccines for reasons having nothing to do with party? Maybe it is about "republican", but that seems too easy, simplistic, when the risk of death was so unequally distributed.
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Asst Coach [859]
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Re: Well, people that got the vaccines for Covid....
Sep 5, 2025, 10:31 PM
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The excess deaths methodology accounts for these differences though. Underlying health/demographics were controlled for.
Also, the researchers found that the partisan gap was concentrated in counties with lower vaccination rates.
Basically, it's comparing each group's death rates to their own normal patterns, not to each other directly.
It's strong evidence that vaccine hesitancy caused a lot of preventable deaths.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10366951/
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: Well, people that got the vaccines for Covid....
Sep 6, 2025, 11:25 AM
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Said that. Still dont know what caused the vaccine hesitancy. If isolated to party affiliation, still dont know the chicken or the egg. People who are republican are so because they tend to think a certain way. Affiliation does not determine attitude. This is more true of the older demographics, where tribal thinking is not as prevalent.
The younger demographics are more tribal, group affiliation determining ideology. It is therefore natural for a younger person to think that correlation causes causation when party affiliation is involved. That type of thinking is who we are now. Is more difficult for a younger person to think the other way.
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CU Medallion [19045]
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Their body their choice.***
Sep 4, 2025, 5:12 PM
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Orange Phenom [14723]
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but its not though
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Sep 5, 2025, 9:50 AM
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that's like saying drunk driving is their body and life and their choice
whole groups not vaccinated puts others at risk
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CU Medallion [19045]
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Other vaccinated people?***
Sep 5, 2025, 10:08 AM
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Orange Phenom [14723]
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Re: Other vaccinated people?***
Sep 5, 2025, 11:49 AM
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I think we've had this convo before but....
- not everyone converts immunity, most do but not everyone.
- infants under 2 months old can't get vaccines, and can't get some (generally) until 12 mo old
- people with medical conditions the prohibit certain vaccines like on chemo or biologic agents for things like autoimmune conditions (inflam bowel disease, severe asthma, etc etc)
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TigerNet HOFer [125872]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
Sep 4, 2025, 5:42 PM
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I think the idea is to kill the stupid people first, and Florida will make a great case study.
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Orange Phenom [14419]
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Still
Sep 4, 2025, 6:27 PM
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Far down our list of things that will kill us in Florida
Likely to rise up the list over the next decade though
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Ultimate Tiger [37957]
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Who wooda thought you'd be a shill for Big Pharma lobbyists?***
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Sep 4, 2025, 6:23 PM
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Top TigerNet [30998]
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Re: Who wooda thought you'd be a shill for Big Pharma lobbyists?***
Sep 4, 2025, 8:23 PM
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Or maybe vaccines save lives? There could always be that factor and not a conspiracy as you believe.
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TigerNet Champion [113065]
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I know exactly how we got here.
5
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Sep 4, 2025, 7:29 PM
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First off, the governemnt LIED. Period. That's just a fact. Fauci LIED about the vaccines stopping transmission. Trump LIED that it would just go away some day. The governemnt LIED that masks don't stop transmission. MANY LIES.
HOWEVER, just like the rest of America today, when one person lies to you, THAT DOES NOT MEAN the person telling you the opposite thing is right.
Public health has always had a tendency to hide the truth in bad situations. Truth is covid is airborne, and one of the most infectious respiratory viruses ever documented and studied. Fact, masks help. Surgical help some, N95+ helps more. The covid vaccines were a complimentary SAFE first covid infection. Nothing more, or less. They saved many lives early on.
Vaccines don't kill germs, they don't kill viruses, they don't stop, or eradicate viruses. They simply provide some level of immunity. The more contagious the disease, the greater the number who MUST be vaccinated for it to go dormant, or be rare. Measles, it takes 93-94% of people vaccinated to keep it at bay. 86% vaccinated, and it will spread all over. The thinking was, even with covid, if you could get 95% or more vaccinated, it would become rare. But since it didn't stop transmission, people were lied to, so they recoiled. Human nature.
The reason the governemnt always said masks don't work, is because in the event of a pandemic they wanted to make sure doctors and nurses had plenty of PPE. So when covid hit, they said masks don't work. THEN, China stepped up, and billions of masks were made. PPE for medical professionals was no longer an issue, so they pivoted and demanded people wear masks.
And lastly, vaccines have had a greater impact on human life expectancy than any other advance ever made in medicine. They are EXCEPTIONAL at keeping CHILDREN alive. 50% of children died, 500 years ago when they all ate organic foods, and were naturally infected by viruses.
I said Fauci was lying probably before anyone else around here said it. THAT SAID, that doesn't mean the people saying the opposite of what Fauci said were correct. They were wrong. The thinking in public health for a CENTURY has been tell the people what they SHOULD hear.
The BETTER approach would have been for Fauci to be candid with people, truthful, and honest. Instead, insulting their intelligence, he lied, and that was the biggest failure of the pandemic. IMHO. I know exactly how we got into this situation.
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Paw Master [17536]
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^^^^
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Sep 4, 2025, 8:47 PM
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Fauci and others should have said,”We don’t know,” a lot more and not lied to us.
Once he and others lied, much trust was lost with the medical community.
He still denies his role in schools being shut down and kids losing ground in their education.
He is not a man to be admired.
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Top TigerNet [30998]
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Re: ^^^^
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Sep 4, 2025, 8:53 PM
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They thought they were just being cautious, but they lost sight of the damage they were doing to society in all of the other ways. They had their jobs as did the politicians. They were foolish imo. The shutdowns, especially for that lengthy time destroyed a lot of lives.
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TigerNet Champion [113065]
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We had less "shutdowns" than most of the rest of the planet.
Sep 4, 2025, 9:11 PM
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We had some states who never shut down, and never closed schools.
Others, like SC, shut down for a month, then masked for a while, then that was it. My kids missed exactly 3-4 weeks of in-person school. Next semester they went back 3 days a week and 2 virtual. By December 2020, back to normal.
Here's the kicker, kids the world over, shutdowns or not, are suffering in their grades and learning. And that's just the virus doing what SOME people knew it would do.
States that never closed schools, kids are achieving less in math and reading. Same for states that shut down more.
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: We had less "shutdowns" than most of the rest of the planet.
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Sep 5, 2025, 11:58 AM
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We shut down enough to print at least 6 Trillion in new currency. Doesnt matter what other countries did, our shutdowns were a disaster that saved no one.
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: ^^^^
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Sep 5, 2025, 12:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: ^^^^ ] |
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The foundational debate is whether informed individuals (even if 'we dont know' is part of the information), allowed to make their own decisions, will collectively do what is best for them and the whole.
Conservatives say yes. The left says not just no, but lie to them if necessary to justify control.
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Asst Coach [859]
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Re: ^^^^
Sep 5, 2025, 10:39 PM
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Conservatives, left to make their own decision will tell you that ivermectin cures covid or that the vaccines contain microchips (even though Trump was in charge when they speed ran getting it to market).
Also, evidence strongly suggests that those same morons died at a higher rate because of their own decisions (that's all you really need to know about this argument). I personally don't think that's what's best for conservatives but you are free to have that opinion.
But sure, conservatives where the clear-headed ones careful not to spread misinformation, didn't have a pathological liar at the helm and were just looking out for the collective. Give me a fuggin break
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: ^^^^
Sep 6, 2025, 11:33 AM
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Your first sentence is the error of top down control. "... will tell you ...". Yes, they will tell you their opinion (which the left is increasingly unwilling to allow). They will be less likely to tell you that you have to do the same. Individual mistakes will be made, but the collection of individual decisions will be corporately the best ones. Or we can have the disaster that was mandated to us.
My guess is that you believe implementing some form of marxism in the relationship between citizens and state would be a good idea. True or not?
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Asst Coach [859]
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Re: ^^^^
Sep 6, 2025, 2:18 PM
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>Your first sentence is the error of top down control. "... will tell you ...". Yes, they will tell you their opinion (which the left is increasingly unwilling to allow)
This is a joke right?
Conservatives are happy to tell you who you can and can't marry, restrict contraception access, legislate morality, they'll implement surveillance programs, drug war policies, militarize cities, loyalty oaths, ten commandments in schools/courthouses, mandate that we teach american exceptionalism and restrict teaching about slavery/racism.
It's honestly laughable what you'll close your eyes to with what's going on at the moment.
>My guess is that you believe implementing some form of marxism in the relationship between citizens and state would be a good idea. True or not?
god no, very false.
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: ^^^^
Sep 6, 2025, 3:59 PM
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Okay, glad to hear that.
But no, wasnt joking. Totalitarianism is a far left thing, as well as far right. The political spectrum is not a line, but a circle, the two extremes meeting at the top (Prof Charles Dunn, PhD, Clemson). The two extremes are known by different terms, but they differ almost none at all in goals and methods. Because we are a two party system we think of it as a line, failing to see or admit that the further we go in our chosen direction the more we look like the extreme of the other. This is why China went from being pure communism to totalitarian capitalism almost overnight, from far left to far right. All they had to do was take a small step across the line where the two met, the common totalitarian aspect remaining in place. A free market is at the other side of the circle, at the bottom, as far from either as one can get.
This is why informed individuals will make better decisions, collectively, than those dictated to them. As to whether our freedom of expression is under assault, to someone who doesnt think so there is not a one sentence response. Would be a long conversation.
This is another subject altogether, but I do not think that democracy is the opposite of totalitarianism. Dictators get elected all the time. A benevolent dictator could grant and ensure all the individual rights of a free society. Democracy is the answer to what citizens can do when that doesnt happen. A republic seems to me to be the answer to the fact that it will never happen.
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TigerNet Champion [113065]
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It's worse than that.
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Sep 4, 2025, 9:04 PM
[ in reply to ^^^^ ] |
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He did know. He knew masks helped. He knew the vaccine wasn't a cure, and wouldn't stop it. He also knew the vaccines helped, and if 95% of people got vaccinated, yearly, it would die WAY down. He knew it was a virus no vaccine could eradicate. He knew it didn't transmit on surfaces. He knew the plexiglass crap was just that, crap. He knew it all.
That being said, he did say what WOULD HAVE BEEN best. Vaccines are one of those we we we things, not a me me me thing. If it's a me me me thing, they will never work. He knew that.
No, he knew everything, probably more than most. And he also knows that the virus will have a deleterious impact on humanity over the coming decades.
When I was in 1st grade, 6yo, I broke my arm on the playground. Went to the orthopedic doc. He was holding my hand and told me "don't worry, this won't hurt". And I believed him. He then YANKED the #### out of my arm, snapping the bone back into place. It hurt as bad as breaking it all over again. I screamed in pain. I was angry, called him a liar, to his face. And he was. BUT...he told me what I needed to hear to properly set my broken arm to prevent a surgery and much worse. They put on a cast and it was good as new. Had he told me it would hurt, the bone would not have set, and they'd likely have done a surgery.
After this experience there were two roads to take, one is to never trust a doctor again, and the other was to know he said what he needed to say for MY BENEFIT. I chose the latter.
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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It's even worse than that.
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Sep 5, 2025, 5:51 AM
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He actually knew masks did Not help. Why does this misunderstanding about masks persist? Because covid became political.
Masks do reduce the risk of spreading a respiratory infection in an encounter between two people, at an unknown effectiveness. No mask manufacture will state a percentage of effectiveness, as they are not made for that, but there is some reduction of risk.
Masks do NOT reduce the eventual spread of the disease in a population.
The reason both statements are true is simple, and has been confirmed by every study ever done, some half dozen. Fauci said as much after the pandemic, but would not say it during. He is a dishonest person.
IMO, we had a virus that was dangerous to an identifiable segment of the population, much less dangerous to the rest, and not dangerous at all to some. Rather than adopting actions targeted to the at risk segments, we took universally applied, immeasurably destructive actions that helped no one while we waited on a vaccine, all because of politics. Had the vaccine not come, should we still be shut down?
The relevant question/answer is at the 4:30 mark. Add this to "two weeks ...", closed schools, jailing young people for going to the beach, "it didnt come from China", Gavin hosting a party at a closed restaurant, etc and etc, and we have a politicized issue. Govt cannot be believed. Fauci himself, saying the opposite of what he and everyone on the left said during the pandemic:
https://youtu.be/e3AMslS6cKw?feature=shared
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Asst Coach [859]
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Re: It's even worse than that.
Sep 5, 2025, 10:48 PM
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While there are absolutely legitimate concerns about communication failures and policy trade-offs, this presents as a conspiracy-minded interpretation that attributes malice where uncertainty and difficult trade offs are far more plausible explanations.
Selective citing of evidence and sweeping claims undermine the valid concerns.
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: It's even worse than that.
Sep 6, 2025, 4:08 PM
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The study cited in the video and Fauci's comment speak for themselves. That study was the most recent of about a dozen over the past decade, all reaching the same conclusion: Mask wearing does not change the course of a virus. Fauci knew it all along. Even here he could barely bring himself to say it.
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Asst Coach [859]
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Re: It's even worse than that.
Sep 6, 2025, 4:28 PM
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my points stands "this presents as a conspiracy-minded interpretation that attributes malice where uncertainty and difficult trade offs are far more plausible explanations."
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: It's even worse than that.
Sep 6, 2025, 4:49 PM
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You are way smarter than me. Than I. I do not know what that means. Dumb that down for me.
It would seem to say you think Fauci lying about masks was not lying but "uncertainty", or something about trade-offs. But I dont think you would say that, or that you see conspiracies everywhere. So, restate if you would.
Message was edited by: CUintulsa®
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Asst Coach [859]
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Re: It's even worse than that.
Sep 6, 2025, 7:55 PM
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>It would seem to say you think Fauci lying about masks was not lying but "uncertainty", or something about trade-offs
You got it
>But I dont think you would say that, or that you see conspiracies everywhere.
You are just unable to not attribute malice. Not sure why.
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: It's even worse than that.
Sep 6, 2025, 10:33 PM
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I will let you see history as you want. If you do not recall how much that issue - does wearing masks affect the ultimate progress of a virus - was discussed and argued about at the time, and why it was very important at the time, and how that issue became politicized, and how it affected other costly but ineffective policies, and therefore why it matters that Fauci has been shown to have lied about it ... there is no need to go through it all again here. If you call that seeing malice - why he repeatedly lied about it is another subject - maybe you see everything in terms of malice.
I am not trying to pick a fight with you. Just saying what I see. No need to read it as otherwise.
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Tiger Spirit [9595]
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Re: It's worse than that.
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Sep 5, 2025, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to It's worse than that. ] |
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Don't forget the "experts" telling everyone that grandma had to die alone in the hospital and you couldn't have a funeral for her because it was too dangerous, but if you wanted to get together with a few thousand strangers to scream and protest that wouldn't be an issue. Im not anti vaccine at all, and even got my COVID shots, but its hard not to notice the blatant irregularities here and there were plenty of others as youve already well documented.
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All-TigerNet [5882]
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The fact you're even trying to explain this way is exactly
Sep 4, 2025, 9:08 PM
[ in reply to I know exactly how we got here. ] |
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why we are here. Too many people like Catahoula® let you guys get away with spewing nonsense for far too long.
Fauci didn't even lie. You're just upset that someone tried to make you be a decent person.
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TigerNet Champion [113065]
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Re: The fact you're even trying to explain this way is exactly
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Sep 4, 2025, 9:18 PM
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Tiger Titan [51057]
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Nah man. Fauci straight up lied. He considered it a "noble lie," thus felt he
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Sep 4, 2025, 11:13 PM
[ in reply to The fact you're even trying to explain this way is exactly ] |
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had to do it. But he lied, and he degraded himself and the "science" he supposedly stood for. The abstract in the paper here is spot-on:
"Though Fauci had long been regarded as a trusted expert, his changing positions—along with other evolving guidance on social distancing, vaccines, and the virus’s origin—undermined public trust in science and government."
Fauci should have been brought to heel very, very early on, but Trump unfortunately outsourced too much leadership to him, and Fauci was glad to do it.
Fauci's job should have been exclusively as an expert; to inform and educate the political leadership. It was then the political leadership's job to make the policy based on Fauci's expertise.
Fauci is a scientist. He is not an economist, nor is he a social scientist. And yet, Trump let Fauci dictate policy that impacted all of these things. Of course Fauci would say a "two week shutdown" is necessary because that was the best thing for his goal of slowing COVID. He was not thinking of the social and economic damage it would cause. That's not his scope. Nor is it his concern. But Fauci, and at the state level, his analogs, were all given the freedom to, essentially, make these policies.
Nah man. Fauci could have been a hero, but he wanted to be the hero, and we got exactly that.
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All-TigerNet [5882]
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Honestly, have you actually read what you just linked?
Sep 5, 2025, 12:37 AM
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I haven’t but the abstract is calling the shift in guidance based on a better understanding of the virus a lie.
Is that really what this case study does?
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: Nah man. Fauci straight up lied. He considered it a "noble lie," thus felt he
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Sep 5, 2025, 6:27 AM
[ in reply to Nah man. Fauci straight up lied. He considered it a "noble lie," thus felt he ] |
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I dont see how he thought "two weeks" would have any effect. The highest paid govt employee, paid to know about one subject, and he said a thing like that. I didnt buy it then, dont now.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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Ultimate Tiger [35782]
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The initial studies of the vaccines did show....
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Sep 5, 2025, 6:58 AM
[ in reply to I know exactly how we got here. ] |
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efficacy against infection. That reduced with later variants.
Of the efficacy against severe disease still held.
A LOT of what people call Fauci lies was more a change in understanding over time as more was learned than a misleading of the public.
Most of the vaccine scepticism comes from folks who lack the ability dissect and accurately research information on their own. Too often these type of folks figure what they believe first and then seek only information that seems to support that belief.
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110%er [3796]
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That's right. Fauci didn't "lie" about the vaccines....
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Sep 5, 2025, 7:38 AM
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He never said the vaccines were going to be 100% effective at stopping transmission. And the vaccines were highly effective against the original variant. The virus then mutated and was able to evade vaccines for infection. But the vaccines were still highly - HIGHLY - effective at limiting severe illness, hospitalization, long covid, and death.
Where we're at today is mostly a victory of right-wing propaganda and social media against scientists & science.
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Paw Master [17536]
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Re: That's right. Fauci didn't "lie" about the vaccines....
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Sep 5, 2025, 10:07 AM
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Fauci attempted to squelch any debate about the origins of COVID. Fauci was a master of parsing words regarding our involvement in gain of function research.
Fauci on masks was ridiculous. It's sad to still see folks wearing cloth masks and wearing them as a toddler would. He knew #### well that cloth masks were essentially useless.
Two weeks to halt the spread--he knew better.
Touting this as a disease of the unvaccinated was a lie as well.
Fauci is a smart man of small physical stature, but with a towering ego, who acted as if he was the ultimate authority on COVID and it was unscientific to question anything out of his mouth.
The COVID vaccine was and is useful in decreasing deaths and severe disease, but it was insanity to hector even people who had had COVID that they must take the shot as well.
CU Tulsa's take is mine. The focus should have been on those most at risk then allow most of the country to work, go to school, etc..
The damage in the trust of the medical community across America is far worse than what occurred amongst blacks after news of the Tuskegee experiment.
The American people deserved the truth, deserved to be told what was known and what was unknown. It's not unprofessional to say, "I don't know, but we're working on it and will give you more information when we know more," instead of pulling a 6 ft distancing measure out of their ### and preaching this as settled science.
Fauci's arrogance coupled with a lot of uninformed people already mistrustful of science and most institutions has us where we are.
Unfortunately we now have people in government who want to make political hay with those same mistrustful voters and have people in authority with no scientific background--see RFK Jr., and we are in a bad place.
I suppose antibiotics which are indeed often overprescribed, can cause anaphylactic reactions, pseudomembranous colitis, death, and other issues will be next to be rejected by the antiscience crowd despite saving countless lives?
Fauci isn't the main reason we are where we are, but he does deserve some of the blame.
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: That's right. Fauci didn't "lie" about the vaccines....
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Sep 5, 2025, 11:49 AM
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We are talking about way the wrong subject. Covid response was a political ideology, including the dumping of 6 Trillion into circulation to buy our way out of a shut down economy, two travesties we are still digging ourselves out of.
This is all about the left wanting its way, and it will get it eventually, because it does not care what it costs to get it. If it will shut down an economy, ship a middle class overseas, import cartels via an open border, then blame somebody else by calling the fix the problem, the sky is the limit. They'll win eventually.
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Ultimate Tiger [35782]
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The "left"...Trump signed the first 2 relief bills...
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Sep 5, 2025, 12:13 PM
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and he was pushing for a higher amount on the 2nd round. Now, the CARES act was bigger, but it's BS to say it was just the "left" pushing relief spending.
I've got more than enough issues with liberal political ideology, but if you think mainstream of any American wants to destroy our economy, ship our middle class overseas, and/or wants to bring in drug cartels, I think you've got a screw loose.
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: The "left"...Trump signed the first 2 relief bills...
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Sep 5, 2025, 12:43 PM
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But that's exactly what they did. I will let you deal with "want to", but that is what they did. If you dont see where unequal trade relationships and cartels coming over the border came from, you might not have any screws remaining.
To whatever degree conservatives also did any of that, they were wrong. "Free trade" for too long meant giving bad actors unrestricted access to our markets while they denied us access to theirs, and this was allowed by both sides. When the time for the fix comes, and the left fights it because a conservative is doing it, the left now owns it. That's the way it is. Cartels shipped across the border is all on the left, however, and they are fighting the fix.
If you dont believe cartels, gangs and the Venezuelan govt used the open border to set up shop here, I can send you some screws.
Message was edited by: CUintulsa®
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Clemson Icon [27465]
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Re: The "left"...Trump signed the first 2 relief bills...
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Sep 5, 2025, 1:12 PM
[ in reply to The "left"...Trump signed the first 2 relief bills... ] |
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Edit:
I am not at all saying you did, but did you ever call racist anyone who thought an open border was a bad idea? Did ever once say "you dont like brown people"? I am not saying you did. But most CNN talking heads did, and many on this board. Anyone who said that, to justify an open border, will pay whatever price necessary to get their way.
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Solid Orange [1343]
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Re: The "left"...Trump signed the first 2 relief bills...
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Sep 5, 2025, 2:11 PM
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There hasn’t been an open border at any time since the 1800s, you shyt-eating moron.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: That's right. Fauci didn't "lie" about the vaccines....
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Sep 5, 2025, 12:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's right. Fauci didn't "lie" about the vaccines.... ] |
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“ I don't know, but we're working on it and will give you more information when we know more,"
This right here, the flaw in the government response was taking firm positions too quickly on a virus and disease nobody has ever seen before. I understand why they did it, but it was a mistake.
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110%er [3796]
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Ehhhh....
Sep 5, 2025, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's right. Fauci didn't "lie" about the vaccines.... ] |
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>>Fauci attempted to squelch any debate about the origins of COVID. Fauci was a master of parsing words regarding our involvement in gain of function research.
Fauci on masks was ridiculous. It's sad to still see folks wearing cloth masks and wearing them as a toddler would. He knew #### well that cloth masks were essentially useless.
Agree on masks, as he was less than perfect early-on during the pandemic about masks. As for debate about origins, he didn't try to squelch that. He's always given his opinion that it was not a lab leak, but that he was open to that if there was data showing it to be the case. As for gain-of-function research, our government didn't fund the creation of Covid, which is what crazy voices on the right were accusing him of.
The damage in the trust of the medical community across America is far worse than what occurred amongst blacks after news of the Tuskegee experiment.
The American people deserved the truth, deserved to be told what was known and what was unknown. It's not unprofessional to say, "I don't know, but we're working on it and will give you more information when we know more," instead of pulling a 6 ft distancing measure out of their ### and preaching this as settled science.
Fauci's arrogance coupled with a lot of uninformed people already mistrustful of science and most institutions has us where we are.
If more people had listened to Tony Fauci, more people would have survived the pandemic, probably on the orders of hundreds of thousands. Every time I saw him on TV, and it was at least once/twice a week, he would caveat the Hell out of what he was saying, because we were learning about the virus and our knowledge early on was very low. He was a good public servant, and very cautious in his comments, while at the same time being attacked by Trump's MAGA mega-horn machine, and having to combat nonsense that spread on social media.
Fauci was very supportive of Operation Warp Speed, which is one of the most successful operations in US health history, considering how quick an effective vaccine was developed, approved, and distributed to the population. This saved millions of lives in the US alone, and would have saved more if not for a bull-shite propaganda machine spreading lies (mostly drank up on the right, unfortunately, causing a wave of red county deaths in late 2021 and early 2022).
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All-TigerNet [5882]
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Clemson Sports Icon [54383]
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I'm not allowed to comment on catas poasts, but Dems.***
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Sep 4, 2025, 9:58 PM
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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Attempt to explain how without being stupid or falling for a fake video. Go.
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Sep 5, 2025, 9:57 AM
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And without tagging BMeist like a crybaby.
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Clemson Sports Icon [54383]
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Grow up and let it go.***
Sep 5, 2025, 10:36 AM
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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So you are saying you're done...
Sep 8, 2025, 8:04 AM
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Tagging BMeist and crying every time I reply to one of your posts?
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1st Rounder [688]
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Tiger Titan [51057]
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yawn.***
Sep 4, 2025, 11:05 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [35782]
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Can you discern the difference between "looking at everything"...
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Sep 5, 2025, 7:40 AM
[ in reply to Something is causing this epidemic of autism ] |
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and falsely citing studies to further an agenda?
Who has ever been against "looking at everything"? (answer: no reasonable person)
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110%er [3796]
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Dude, there's been like....so many studies on this...
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Sep 5, 2025, 8:05 AM
[ in reply to Something is causing this epidemic of autism ] |
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We already know that the vaccines don't cause autism. That (non)link has been debunked so many times. At this point, if you don't think it's been looked at, I don't know where you've been hiding out.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: Dude, there's been like....so many studies on this...
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Sep 5, 2025, 8:21 AM
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It doesn’t matter. He has decided as a core belief that vaccines cause autism, and 40 years of definitive mountains of evidence to the contrary don’t matter because once the belief is set, admitting that you are wrong is impossible as it is a sign of weakness and giving a “win” to one’s “opponents.”
Trump’s behavioral and character flaws are just a public reflection of how the uneducated in this country feel about the educated.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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Autism cases are increasing because more are being diagnosed
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Sep 5, 2025, 9:56 AM
[ in reply to Something is causing this epidemic of autism ] |
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More correct diagnoses than in the past AND some false ones as well.
But if your argument is, "Well, autism is going up and it has to be something... so, vaccines!", then you're an imbecile.
Vaccines are PROVEN not to cause autism. Period. Believing otherwise makes you a leftist hippie.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 5, 2025, 8:11 AM
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Several converging factors
1 - the rise in anti-establishment sentiment
2 - social media as the exclusive news source
3 - the devaluation of expertise and the rise of people living on the Dunning Kruger upslope
4 - “alternative facts,” if you don’t like something well then it must be wrong
These are core tenets of MAGA and the far left. As the middle majority became increasingly silenced by algorithmic favoring of extreme statements and views, the conditions to allow nefarious actors to discourage vaccinations and cut medical research have become more favorable.
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Orange Phenom [14419]
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This deserves a thumbs down
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Sep 5, 2025, 8:14 AM
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Because it is correct and it is sad
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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The solution is very simple, its to take away the internet.
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Sep 5, 2025, 8:18 AM
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Humanity has clearly demonstrated that we cannot be trusted with it.
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All-TigerNet [5882]
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It deserves a thumbs down for conflating the far left and MAGA
Sep 7, 2025, 5:22 AM
[ in reply to This deserves a thumbs down ] |
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MAGA is the modern Republican Party representing 90+% of the Republican Party.
That's the type of "well that's what they do too" idiocy that Fox News/Limbaugh pushed that led the Republican Party to become such extremists.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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In all sincerity here
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Sep 5, 2025, 10:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines? ] |
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You can't peg all of this on fringe Americans.
You can't, with a straight face, leave out the global health regulators' complete mismanagement of COVID, and flat out lies to the entire planet.
You can't, with a straight face, state that the policies and provisions put in place to "protect the health" of citizens in this country cannot be challenged.
These sentiments and reactions didn't happen in a vacuum. As a health professional, albeit very tailored to a specific sliver of said system from my understanding, your industry needs to take a long look in the mirror and accept some responsibilities for this pushback. It's a slap in the face to the populace to throw your hands up and have complete deniability of any wrong doing.
I'm not honing in on vaccines specifically, here, nor have I ever. It's a macro conversation by which vaccines are just a piece of the puzzle. And for the record, I'm of the position that they're not even the biggest piece of said puzzle.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: In all sincerity here
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Sep 5, 2025, 11:34 AM
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If you’re not talking about vaccines, what are you referring to?
Frankly I don’t think I could disagree with you any more. I think COVID vaccines were a miracle. You know why there’s never been a vaccine for the “common cold”? Because most of the time it’s caused by a coronavirus, and coronaviruses mutate too quickly for vaccines to work. The production, rollout, and distribution of the COVID vaccines saved untold millions of old people’s lives.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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man I had this really long post written for you
Sep 23, 2025, 10:39 AM
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that day, and I remember I came back to my computer Monday and had a BSOD.
the only issues I have w/ current vaccine schedules are such:
1- Hep B on the birth table. not needed for everyone
2- vitamin K right out of the cooter
3- dramatic increase of shots relative to mid-80s / 90s vaccine schedules
4- being forced to adhere to the schedule, ver batum, or not being able to be seen by doctors, attend schools, etc.
I'm for all the vaccines I took. What I'm giving my kids is astounding and it scares the #### out of me.
more of my isssues are related to just macro-level health trends in the country. I will tip my hat to you guys, I think y'all are doing great work on the treatment side, in most cases. I think the overprescribing of medicines, the lack of accountability in the pharma industry, the poisons we're feeding ourselves and our children, our agricultural practices, just the fuggin slop (to use RFK's words) that is enable by this regulatory capture...really bothers me.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: man I had this really long post written for you
Sep 23, 2025, 12:22 PM
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Dude.
Hep B- you can’t test every woman for this before their spawn gets squeezed through their sausage wallet, so kids get the vaccine that confers near universal protection from a disease that universally causes liver disease and failure. Ok, not every mother has Hep B. Yes. This is true. But what’s the downside? If the vaccine is harmless or close to harmless, why not give it? Even if it only prevents a tiny fraction of kids from being doomed to liver failure, that’s a no brainer.
Vitamin K- neonates don’t have the liver function required to synthesize vitamin K, a key cofactor in the clotting cascade. Without it, there’s a 1.5% rate of neonatal bleeding. Again- what’s the downside? You ever seen an intracranial hemorrhage in a neonate? I have.
They have vaccines now to prevent or markedly reduce the risk of chicken pox. We didn’t have that when we were kids, and we all got chicken pox, now we all have the possibility of getting shingles later in life. Is the vaccine that can prevent this bad? What’s the downside? We have vaccines for pneumococcus, meningococcus, bacterial infections that can kill young people. Is this a bad thing to reduce the chance of this? What is the downside?
You’re coming at this issue with the baseline presupposition that vaccines are dangerous or harmful (ie have a downside), which is something that me and I bet about 99.9% of doctors would disagree with. If you hold that belief, then nothing I wrote above will matter. No explaining the science, the history, risk/benefit analysis, public health, will change your mind. The benefits vastly vastly outweigh the risks, and that’s the bare bones reality. There is no logical or evidence based downside to vaccinations, and you shouldn’t assume that the people who make schedules and recommendations would cynically refuse to change their minds if new evidence were to surface. Why would they? That’s like accusing them of being more interested in _____ whatever than the health and wellbeing of their patients. There is no giant pro-pharmaceutical conspiracy amongst doctors, this just doesn’t exist.
The stuff in your last paragraph has basically nothing to do with the healthcare system and everything to do with people. People smoke. People drink. People huff glue. People eat McDonald’s and ice cream until they can’t walk. People won’t take their meds. People will buy beers instead of insulin. People won’t take care of their wounds. People won’t work because their back hurts. People won’t go to the doctor until their cancer is poking through their shirt. All we can do is try to pick up the pieces.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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yeah, we're good to break here
Sep 23, 2025, 2:57 PM
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I'm a lone dude standing against the tide. and that's fine.
of note, not really related to the vaccine conversation - core component of my thesis is that the healthcare system is, inherently, a system. an extremely complex one, at scale. said system has many variables and nodes that impact overall performance.
agriculture and food consumption should 100% be part of that system. the statement that it's not, in my view, is part of the problem.
my heart is enormous with positive emotions and I'm as optimistic as I've ever been that we're putting some things in place to correct the abysmal state of our country's health and wellness.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: yeah, we're good to break here
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Sep 23, 2025, 4:17 PM
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You’re just going to ignore everything I spent time writing?
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All-Time Great [92147]
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Yes, yes he is. And bumping this thread in the process.***
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Sep 23, 2025, 4:24 PM
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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Ew***
Sep 23, 2025, 4:39 PM
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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Haha - ok fine
Sep 23, 2025, 4:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: yeah, we're good to break here ] |
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I don't agree with the notion that vaccines are harmless. So we're off to rocky start.
Nothing is harmless in your world. The safety profile on the FDA site lists deaths (0.06%) and chronic illnesses at 4% for the HepB. It's very summary level, so can't reach further conclusions. Close to harmless, why not give it? Someone's baby could have died from this. And that mother likely tests negative for HepB. But it's on the schedule, have to take it.
For vitamin k, there's an oral option. Why does it have to be a shot?
I didnt realize we added chicken pox to the schedule, until I got my daughter her 4 year old shots last week.
Furthermore, if my kids get injured the manufacturers have immunity.
I don't agree with mandating the timing of these nor the forced adherence to the schedule.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: Haha - ok fine
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Sep 23, 2025, 4:51 PM
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You’re going to need to show me that link, because I don’t believe there has ever been a definitive reported death from the Hep B vaccine. Anaphylaxis to it is like 1/1.1million. Thousands die every year from Hepatitis B.
Oral vitamin K doesn’t have the same bioavailability as oral for newborns. Absorption of oral vitamin K requires cofactors from gut microbiome that newborns don’t have. You really think nobody has considered this or looked into this? It has been established science since the 1960’s. There is no current FDA approved oral vitamin K supplement for infants in the US.
Here’s a gorgeous abstract on plasma concentration of vitamin K oral vs IM from 1985. If you dig you may likely find the full paper if you’re interested. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4051538/
I get it. Vaccines are pokies, and pokies are scary.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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I ####### love it
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Sep 5, 2025, 10:13 AM
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Am I a doctor? Nope.
Can I explain the biological mechanics that are driving whatever is going on? Nope.
Am I in the 1% of analyzing massive sets of data and raising my hand to hypothesize potential correlations and/or causations of said data? Yup. Tape don't lie here, bro.
Something's broken. I question 90% of what comes out of the medical establishment. Completely and unequivocally captured by the pharmaceutical/hospital/medical lobbyists and self-interest groups. It's like asking the Mexican Cartels if they think we have an opiod crisis (which, by the way, thanks Pharma).
You can't look at the tape right now and stand behind the administrative decisions by our health agencies over the past 30-40 years. If you do, you're a ####### moron or a partisan hack. Full stop.
Want people to trust these organizations? Show the data. Not the data paid for, curated, and published by the manufacturers, no no.
And for the record. Before you put your cute little label on me. I'm not anti-vaxx. My kids have followed the little rules, they're fully vaxxed. So GTFO. I'm challenging the narrative that's been paid for with hundreds of billions of dollars - if not trillions - based on the tape.
Our entire medical system, health system, agricultural regulations, food regulations, life/wellness of the citizens in this country is broken, nearly to the point of non-repair. Other countries are laughing at us, you ####### clowns, b/c we're the only country that allows what we do.
NIH, CDC, WHO, Dept of Ag whoeverthefuck and every single ####### boomer piece of #### who allowed this to happen to my kids generation can kindly and very politely go #### themselves.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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The tape does lie
Sep 5, 2025, 10:19 AM
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It's proven they don't cause it. People who have pushed anti vax views are costing children their lives.
And for the record. Before you put your cute little label on me. I'm not anti-vaxx. My kids have followed the little rules, they're fully vaxxed. So GTFO. I'm challenging the narrative that's been paid for with hundreds of billions of dollars - if not trillions - based on the tape.
Great. Good. So don't contribute to this horse ####. There's nothing to ####### love about kids dying.
You can't look at the tape right now and stand behind the administrative decisions by our health agencies over the past 30-40 years. If you do, you're a ####### moron or a partisan hack. Full stop.
This is such a dumb comment and beneath you. Really? Do you not understand how many lives have been saved by those decisions over those decades? You basically start your post with, "I don't really know anything about this and I'm not qualified to answer..." and then conclude with "But if you don't agree with me, you're a moron!"
Remember all those really dumb hot takes you had in January over the Trump economy and then you lamented about the disaster not too long ago?
Yeah. That's one of those.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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"kids dying"
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Sep 5, 2025, 10:33 AM
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Stop with that #########. Don't give me that sensational ####### ########.
You're looking at the wrong tape, homie.
$ / citizen on health care
Citizens with chronic disease
obesity rates
mental illness in kids
autism in kids
life expectancies relative to western civilizations
Look at all of these at a macro level, with a straight face, and tell me we're good. You ####### can't. Completely broken. Capital punishment levels of intentional, systemic, and regulatory failures across the board. And you people are defending it.
This next generation, and their next generation, is walking into a ####### gas chamber. It's abhorrent.
The cost to fund and prop up health services in this country - for the marginal % of the population the government is responsible for, mind you - will bankrupt us. And this is at today's values. Extrapolate this based on the exponentially worsening health of my generation and gen z, and we're talking existential levels of doom here. I didn't read this on a tweet, that's what the tape says.
If vaccines are so bullet proof, why's there immunity for the manufacturers? Why is there such pushback to have re-calibration of safety studies? If the tape don't lie, then show the ############# tape. Why am I loon for asking these questions?
It's all a crock of ####. #### every single god #### one of em.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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Yeah, it's not sensational, dude. You're ignorant on this topic.
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Sep 5, 2025, 3:21 PM
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Before the introduction of vaccines, 20 percent of U.S. children died before their 5th birthday. Hundreds would die each year before the measles vaccine was introduced in 1963.
In 2023, 4.8 million died worldwide as a result of no vaccine.
And most recently, an example in the States:
https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/31486/Unvaccinated-child-dies-of-measles-amid-outbreak?autologincheck=redirected
You really need to educate yourself on this. You are flippantly shooting from the hip on this with little knowledge... similar to your economic posts in January.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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Look at the tape
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Sep 5, 2025, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to The tape does lie ] |
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and stand behind your position.
There's a significant difference in understanding the biological mechanisms that work with a single vaccine, versus evaluating macro level data sets over the course of 30-40 years and reaching conclusions based on said data.
Apologies if you're unable to discern the two.
Trump capitulated on the economy like a #####. All you status quo ####### couldn't handle it. I wanted it brought to the ####### ground to chase lower yields in the bond market. you wanna spin up another thread to ball on that, let's go.
My trump trade post I made, I'm up 34%
My crypto position is more than double the average American's entire retirement portfolio.
My entire thesis on how to trade this administration has afforded me half of my children's college fund in 8 months.
Not to mention I leapt to a start up company, onshored manufacturing leveraging domestic mfg incentives, and wiping the ###### floor with a bunch on cheenks right now.
Sit the #### down on this one.
Might wanna check your opponent on this one before you line up and try to go good on good on this topic, bro.
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TigerNet HOFer [124211]
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Whew boy, I should have stayed away from the Pol board. You guys are
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Sep 5, 2025, 3:01 PM
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really ####### nuts with this insane arguing back and forth. Kinda sounds like the ######### on capitol hill yelling back and forth at each other.
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110%er [3796]
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Crypto....
Sep 5, 2025, 3:13 PM
[ in reply to Look at the tape ] |
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>>My crypto position is more than double the average American's entire retirement portfolio.
Why?
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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Then show me your evidence on vaccines if you're so correct.
Sep 5, 2025, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to Look at the tape ] |
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Links to stats and data, NOT your opinion. Because that's all you've come with to the table so far.
Trump capitulated on the economy like a #####... (pointless BS cut for space)... Not to mention I leapt to a start up company, onshored manufacturing leveraging domestic mfg incentives, and wiping the ###### floor with a bunch on cheenks right now.
This reeks of BS.
If you have to brag about it, it ain't real. If you benefited, it was for factors before Trump.
There's a significant difference in understanding the biological mechanisms that work with a single vaccine, versus evaluating macro level data sets over the course of 30-40 years and reaching conclusions based on said data.
Go ahead. Explain it to me. Show me where you're drawing your knowledge. Only links, please. No words.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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As I stated in an above response to Chassman
Sep 5, 2025, 7:48 PM
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"I'm not honing in on vaccines specifically, here, nor have I ever. It's a macro conversation by which vaccines are just a piece of the puzzle. And for the record, I'm of the position that they're not even the biggest piece of said puzzle."
I look forward to this one, bro.
Have a good weekend.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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Re: As I stated in an above response to Chassman
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Sep 6, 2025, 10:32 AM
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Dude. The whole thread is about the idiocy of anti vax. If you aren't anti vax, why are you even responding to this thread with the "I ####### love it" and go into these weird (and completely inaccurate) rants about the medical profession?
There absolutely 0.0 reason for your reply.
Don't know what you're looking forward to; you've already been dashed in this thread by Charleston15 and me. It's done.
But I hope you also have a great weekend. Unfortunately, mine is already predestined to be a bad one, hence why I'm posting on a Saturday morning.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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"Derp derp Macro Level Data!"
Sep 5, 2025, 3:35 PM
[ in reply to Look at the tape ] |
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"Last 40 years! Derp!"
Take the macro data to the face.
Nope. Stop. Don't hit reply until you look over this site. And take note when vaccines became mandatory for school.
https://ourworldindata.org/vaccination
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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to play your game.....
Sep 23, 2025, 10:33 AM
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What happened in the 1980s that caused the explosion of the vaccine schedule that I'm now forced to give my kids, in comparison to the vaccines we took?
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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New vaccines developed for other diseases
Sep 23, 2025, 3:37 PM
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Update to MMR, which included a 2nd dose, and responses to some outbreaks.
But if you think it's a conspiracy other than that, be my guest.
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Ultimate Tiger [35782]
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You strike me as someone who has smoked a lot of...
Sep 5, 2025, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to I ####### love it ] |
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Left-handed cigarettes 
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: I ####### love it
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Sep 5, 2025, 11:56 AM
[ in reply to I ####### love it ] |
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“Something's broken. I question 90% of what comes out of the medical establishment. Completely and unequivocally captured by the pharmaceutical/hospital/medical lobbyists and self-interest groups“
I’m not really sure I know what you mean by this, and I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this profession works. Nobody, no organization, no administrator, no lobby, no drug or device rep, tells a doctor how to practice medicine. There are generally accepted standards of care, and there are things doctors might do to practice defensive medicine, but there isn’t like some big overlord that lays out what I do with a patient, or how I do my surgeries, or how many pills I give people, or anything like that.
The biggest problem in healthcare for both patients and providers is for-profit insurance. They are the common enemy.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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I respect that is how you operate your practice
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Sep 5, 2025, 12:14 PM
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Nobody, no organization, no administrator, no lobby, no drug or device rep, tells a doctor how to practice medicine.
However, I'd also argue - at scale - this is false. How else would the Sackler family have accomplished what they did if it wasn't?
And I get it. You can't bite the hand that feeds you.
I agree the insurance / healthcare piece is a problem. I lump that in with hyperfinancialization and exponential growth of healthcare administrators' costs.
I did explicitly caveat my position that I'm not entirely against the medical establishment. The macro issues I have with the health of our society, I put at their feet. I'm lumping all the institutions I referenced earlier in that bucket, as each regulatory body plays a role in the higher level policy that affects our citizens' health.
I think it's astronomically ####### ludicrous, that we as relatively high IQ American citizens, can't form objective alignment on the notion that the health and wellness of our populace is entirely broken. That is bonkers.
Furthermore, the fact I'm getting pushback on the claim that the regulatory bodies are captured by self-interest groups of the industry they're supposed to be regulating is outlandish in nature. There are unfathomable counts of surface level, common knowledge types of personnel shifts ALONE that paint an extremely clear picture of this. From my perspective, it's an immediate tell to someone's position of bias if they pushback on such a widely observable claim.
Wild to me. Bizarre. Bananas, even.
No one pushes back when I make the same claim about the military industrial complex. No one pushes back when I make the same claim about the Fed/UST/Street carousel. Nope. But tie these together (Pharma/NIH/CDC/Hospital Admins) and I'm anti-vaxx kid killing lunatic. lol. Complete clown town.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: I respect that is how you operate your practice
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Sep 5, 2025, 12:22 PM
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Can you be more specific? This all just sounds like generalities, I’m not sure what you take umbrage with.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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You are hard channeling RTD on these posts
1
Sep 5, 2025, 3:27 PM
[ in reply to I respect that is how you operate your practice ] |
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A lot of words of conjecture, no facts or data or proof.
You said you "####### loved" this anti vax stuff. Cool. Great. Glad you enjoy children dying due to people's ignorance. And you claim to not be anti vax, and that's fine, but giving any credence to this stupidity contributes to the problem.
Charleston15 is right and I know plenty of doctors who would agree. If you have proof, show it, or, as you said in another post, sit the #### down with this bull ####.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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This will be a fun one.
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Sep 5, 2025, 7:44 PM
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See you next week. Got caught up with work, which you said was BS.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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holy shnikees, that was a long "week"
Sep 23, 2025, 10:30 AM
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here's why this will be a fun one. You, as typical, so astutely are sitting there thumping your chest, claiming to have provided macro data sets to prove your opinion - when in fact, you provided what appears to be a simple amalgamation of vaccine efficacy data. LOL.
What that means is, you're saying or I'm interpreting you're saying, SEE Polio vaccines stop Polio. HA! Derp-dee-derp-doo ####### moron dawghater!!!
Ok - great.
This is not a macro data analysis (I've been chuckling to myself over this one for a hot minute bro), nor does this conversation tie to my broader thesis around status of health in this country and the potential impacts vaccines have (which I have maintained are just a piece of the puzzle - whoops)
So...per you very discrete instructions to provide links to the topics I have stated previously, here you go:
Original data sets that formed my current thesis were mentioned here: https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/kids-dying-37296556
Data:
Cost of Healthcare
- https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/health-at-a-glance-2023_7a7afb35-en
- https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly
- https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2023.00403
- https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2674671
Chronic Diseases for Children / People under 40
- https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/185391
- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21570014/
- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27246068/
- https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2025/24_0539.htm
Childhood Obesity
- https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2526638
- https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/national-obesity-monitor/
> This one's more your speed lol
Autism (I'll add broader childhood neurological impediments)
- https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/ss/ss7202a1.htm
- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25923140/
- https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15374416.2017.1417860
- https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2698633
Childhood Cancer
Hat Tip to Medical folks: the survival rates are astoundingly improved over this same time table
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11698462/
- all age study showing increase in incidence: https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.34479
- another all age: https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.3322/caac.21763
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK569403/
Catahoula®
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Another oof, and some poor argumentative skills to boot
Sep 23, 2025, 2:56 PM
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You shoulda just bailed because I forgot about this thread.
So, I'm not reading any of your links. All your research was for nothing. That's because this thread was about vaccines, NOT all the other crap you interjected into the discussion that had nothing to do with vaccines. That's what I want to talk about. I'm not here for red herrings on obesity or costs or chronic child diseases.
Where you failed in this thread is that you came in giddy about some potential attack on the medical profession in general, then followed up with a "derp but I'm not against vaccines."
Well, bruh, that's the point of the thread.
So any link about another topic, dismissed.
I asked for proof of doctors being the cause of childhood obesity, which they ####### aren't. You didn't understand the assignment, which makes the argumentative skills poor.
You claimed outside agencies tell doctors how to practice medicine. You failed to produce a link that addresses that claim.
Now, here's why I'm not clicking on the autism ones: They either tell me what I already know is true (that vaccines are effective and don't cause autism), or they're going to be full of #### and try to draw some dubious link between the two. I've been down that road enough. I already know the facts on it. I see you linked CDC and NIH. Well, thanks for proving my point. Vaccines don't cause autism.
(Okay, I lied... I did click those. Oops! They don't mention vaccines. Try reading your own links).
Look. Vaccines don't cause autism. I'll say it again and 100 times more. If you want to debate THAT and have a peer-reviewed medical study that can counter all the THOUSANDS of other studies that say otherwise, post it and I'll read it. All the other stuff you listed is irrelevant to the discussion, and you failed to prove your outrageous claims to 15. Doctors ain't the bad guys, bruh.
And yes, Big Pharma can eat a ####.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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good to break too. I provided your links
Sep 23, 2025, 2:59 PM
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won't read em. lol. what a fraud. gargle them pharma balls bruh.
still giddy, btw.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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I'll read links relevant to the discussion
Sep 23, 2025, 3:30 PM
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Not a flurry of ones that you snagged and didn't even read yourself that have nothing to do with your claims. You said doctors have contributed to childhood obesity but then just go looking for charts on overall numbers.
The only ones you posted that were relevant (vaccines) confirm my point. If you want to debate vaccines and have peer-reviewed scientific studies, show me.
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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Lol
Sep 23, 2025, 4:09 PM
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I said good to break bro. I literally provided the data points I used to base my thesis on, them provided the links to said data upon your request.
You don't have the data to change my mind. I don't think you possess the skills to interpret the data I provided (remember, you said links no text, caulky little ####).
Agree to disagree. You gargle pharmas balls. I reject the medical regulatory agencies recommendations, at about 90% due to systemic failure.
I don't need to justify my position when the tape does it for me.
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Oculus Spirit [43303]
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Re: Lol
Sep 23, 2025, 4:19 PM
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Can you list five medical regulatory recommendations that aren’t vaccines that you “reject” so I can try to get a sense of what you’re talking about?
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Top TigerNet [31497]
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sure
Sep 23, 2025, 5:16 PM
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Covid. All of it.
I'll specifically focus on FDA, NIH, CDC.
Opioid Epidemic
direct to consumer pharma advertising
Rotavirus vaccine was yanked back in the 90s
prescribing youth antidepressants up until 04 - way over prescribed in adolescents today, IMO
acetaminophen during pregnancy (initial release was back in 21) - kinda neat, given today huh? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41574-021-00553-7
fluoride supplementation
Drugs that come to mind: vioxx, bextra, fen fen (sp?) - all billion plus settlements where the manufacturers knew the issues.
all the tranny BS going on w/ kids now
over prescribing ADHD meds
infant formula additives / safety testing
over prescription of statins; variability of ACC/AHA Guidelines
(we've had this one before) leaning on the fat drug for weight loss (can't remember the name)
disappointed in these areas:
micro plastic exposure for kids in modern era/endocrine disruptors
SIDS
EMF exposure impact
other "non-health care" regulatory rejections that come to mind:
food pyramid
dietary cholesterol and fat guidelines
glyphosate + organophosphates
dyes
general toxicity allowed by USDA for row crop - food quality protection act 1996. horrible.
unvetted livestock vaccinations / medications allowed at scale
GMO seeds / plants
high fructose corn syrup widespread adoption, using GMO corn ">
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1st Rounder [688]
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Orange Beast [6238]
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Re: I respect that is how you operate your practice
1
Sep 6, 2025, 8:27 AM
[ in reply to I respect that is how you operate your practice ] |
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“How else would the Sackler family have accomplished what they did if it wasn't”
There’s a great podcast named Hooked about a guy who was prescribed OxyContin and started robbing banks to feed his addiction. It’s hard to believe that big pharma convinced the nation that an opioid wasn’t addictive and everyone just went along with it. No telling how many died because of this.
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Top TigerNet [30998]
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Re: I respect that is how you operate your practice
Sep 6, 2025, 2:23 PM
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That is a painkiller and different. These vaccines are recognized as effecriive around the world.
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All-Time Great [94306]
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I've always had a hard time understanding your posts.
4
Sep 5, 2025, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to I ####### love it ] |
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This series of posts only adds to that.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
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He's a case study in Dunning Kruger Effect.***
Sep 5, 2025, 3:28 PM
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Solid Orange [1343]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 5, 2025, 1:01 PM
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I'll say it one more time for people who don't know RFK's history:
He shoved heroin up his butt to smuggle it on a flight. He got sick from it and was caught and convicted of a felony.
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Top TigerNet [30998]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
Sep 5, 2025, 3:38 PM
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He is a perfect fit for this administration.
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Campus Hero [13396]
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We got here because Unipartys govt health agencies are corrupt & coercive
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Sep 7, 2025, 9:23 PM
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By coercive, the govt health agencies actively engaged in the profoundly un-scientific policies of silencing voices (and data generated by those scientists which supported those voices) that dared to disagree with government health agencies’ ‘the science is settled’ orthodoxies.
Americans don’t trust the government’s health agencies because of their blatant lies and decades long record of pushing fake-date health recommendations on the public.
AIDS / govt’s recommendations of AZT.
Peanut allergies / govt’s non-scientific - ‘intuition’ justified recommendations for babies to avoid all peanut products.
COVID-19 - therapies (Remdisivir) - lies re vaccine efficacy - lies re vaccine serious adverse events - ‘no natural immunity’ lies - coercive tactics to force the vax in the public despite the public’s gradual realization that the govt lied again and again and again to them.
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All-TigerNet [5882]
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Re: We got here because Unipartys govt health agencies are corrupt & coercive
Sep 7, 2025, 9:48 PM
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flow0440®
What's it like knowing that your policies over the past 30 years have created an army of people like RTD?
It doesn't make you question those beliefs at all?
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Ultimate Tiger [35782]
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The irony here is that your question is better addressed...
Sep 8, 2025, 2:46 PM
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at yourself than at me!
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Orange Beast [6188]
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Re: How did we arrive at this idiocy over vaccines?
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Sep 8, 2025, 4:12 PM
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1st Rounder [688]
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Clemson Sports Icon [52198]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1998
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Nice lies
Sep 23, 2025, 10:37 AM
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It was created in 1986 and did its job. It was disbanded in 1998 because it had successfully completed its duties.
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