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Top TigerNet [30922]
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How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 12:51 PM
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This program wasn't built with soft cozy coaches and easy practices. It was built with blood, fights, and perseverance. With each new coaching hire over the last two seasons we have heard how much more energy the new coach brings and how much more asschewin they do getting after these guys in practice.
How did we lose that energy and commitment? How did we get so complacent?
I don't know, maybe Shipley was trying to communicate something deeper with his erratic behavior, like he felt guys weren't matching his fight, heart, and dedication.
What I do know is that this program found the keys to success during bowl practice in 2012 before the LSU game. Those practices were so tough they literally built a foundation for what would become the Clemson Dynasty years.
In two weeks this program will have a chance to make a statement. Win or lose Clemson needs to come out and be physical from start to finish.
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TigerNet Elite [76565]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:02 PM
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I don't believe Dabo has soften any. Maybe the reverse is true.
The main deal is always the recruits, and Dabo recruits extremely well.
On the flip is colleges are now buying players and have the $$ to do that.
Dabo is not buying players and so 5stars are taking the best money offered.
This does not appear to be changing soon as it benefits the teams with more money at the expense of the vast majority.
Dabo is coaching at the highest level, but maybe with less available talent.
I do believe this is a playoff caliber team with National Championship level coaches.
This may be the best coached team in a few years.
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Top TigerNet [30922]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:38 PM
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We've had great players, great recruiting, 4 and 5 star guys, and development guys.
What I'm referring to isn't something tangible or statistical. It's that "spark" that "fire" that "grit".
Its something that seemed to leave when some of our tenured coaches left and wasn't brought back with the "replacements"
Coach Elliott, Coach Scott, and Coach Venables were the heartbeat of that dynasty run. Dabo was the mad genius that put it all together.
This year I am reading, seeing, and feeling, that spark may be returning. New coaches, new fire. I was hitting the bourbon last night while reading HLRT's post...there's a feeling building up...in two weeks we shall see what is to become of this season.
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Orange Immortal [64801]
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aka The Eye of the Tiger. Been gone for years now.
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Aug 18, 2024, 2:25 PM
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Hunger. Desire. Want to.
Aint seen much of it since 2020 at least.
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Orange Blooded [2274]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 4:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years? ] |
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I think you had a lot of somewhat small things if individually viewed that all happened over a short period of time. No one thing made a change but all of them together did.
>Covid eliminating on campus visits. that hurt Dabo's recruiting style.
>Player turnover that was unnecessary turnover
>injuries to those that remained
>coaching changes at bad times and
new coaches that didn't work out
>Portal / NIL / DJ (I group these together because I think players knew DJ had some performance anxiety issues and decided to go elsewhere along with the other usual suspects involved with the portal such as tampering etc..)
Then early last year - just crazy game situations strung together like luck paying us back.
Dabo walked in a locker room and said yall got 28 days to prove you belong in my program.
So He77 yeah there is some fire back on this team!
Is it enough for GA on August 31, 2024? I don't know, but I do know this - No one will want us in Dec and Jan.
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Gridiron Giant [16098]
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Game Changer [1974]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:13 PM
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Truly the “fans” might want to take a look in the mirror!! This “fan” base deserves a BIG taste of reality and if they succeed in running Dabo off they will get it. The little jk group of cry babies and instigator!! Flame away but you know deep inside it’s true!!!
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Tiger Spirit [9380]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:52 PM
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Pretty sure we got a taste of reality last season going 9-4 and 4-4 in conference play.
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National Champion [7999]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 2:30 PM
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I believe the Duke game was a reality check for this fan base. At least the ones who don’t drink the kool aid.
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Dynasty Maker [3150]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:29 PM
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Dabo won two NCs and got paid. Then he started hiring his unqualified former players and has yet to adapt to modern CFB. He forgot what made him successful. It also doesn't help that a significant portion of the fanbase treats him like he's a god that can't be criticized.
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Campus Hero [14002]
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uhm, he had two unqualified, prior players coaching offense for 2 NCs
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:44 PM
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This is the dumbest logic you can have
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Dynasty Maker [3150]
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Re: uhm, he had two unqualified, prior players coaching offense for 2 NCs
Aug 18, 2024, 6:38 PM
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Care to explain?
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National Champion [7912]
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Tiger Titan [50733]
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Those two co-OCs used the Chad Morris offense and philosophy.
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Aug 19, 2024, 4:10 PM
[ in reply to uhm, he had two unqualified, prior players coaching offense for 2 NCs ] |
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Good for them, because it made us super successful.
They also capitalized on Deshaun Watson, who Morris recruited heavily. Which led to Trevor Lawrence, etc.
Unfortunately, we moved farther away from that offensive philosophy the longer Elliott was here. Streeter did nothing to change it. And now we have Riley, who seems pretty similar to Streeter.
How is that working out for us?
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Clemson Icon [26338]
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Re: Those two co-OCs used the Chad Morris offense and philosophy.
Aug 19, 2024, 10:01 PM
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TROLL!!!!
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National Champion [7742]
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Re: There Is Some Truth To What Los Is Saying ---
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years? ] |
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The talent we had before won us a lot of those games. Hence the talent we were able to get out-performed the coaching over half the time.... offensively.
There is nothing wrong with having squeaky clean kids you might see on Dawson's Creek or somewhere on the Hallmark Channel off and the field. However....once you step on the field against very elite talent and coaching...you better get fed up and defend yourself in a hurry.
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Game Changer [1805]
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With the amount of success he's had its possible...
Aug 19, 2024, 9:19 AM
[ in reply to Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years? ] |
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even subconsciously for some complacency to occur and even hubris. But 80-90 percentage of our 3 year descent is directly related to the the NIL/TP rule changes, the consequences of the symbiotic relationship between NIL & the TP, and our continued adherence to a NIL/TP methodology largely shaped by our natural aversion to them both.
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Top TigerNet [29983]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:32 PM
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The tell for me will be how the OL does this year. IMO, it's been the huge issue for several years running. Also, the eyeballs will be on the WR room as well.
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National Champion [7717]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 1:46 PM
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Complacency is a thing and you cant help feeling some of it start to sneak into the program after the 2019 season. Once we lost our two all time great players on offense the wheels came off. We shouldn't need all time greats to be an above average offense with how we recruit so someone needs to look at player development and game day coaching to improve our performance.
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Tiger Spirit [9788]
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I don't know about that, but I do know this, Clemson games started looking like
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Aug 18, 2024, 2:01 PM
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coot games with all the people leaving at halftime or at the beginning of the 4th quarter. Plain embarrassing.
The fans have become spoiled and soft.
Message was edited by: 1portroyalty®
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Top TigerNet [30922]
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Re: I don't know about that, but I do know this, Clemson games started looking like
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Aug 18, 2024, 2:10 PM
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I don't get to go to games as much as I wish, but you can be sure the ones I do go to...the only reason I leave in the fourth quarter is to line up in front of the rock and meet at the paw when the clock hits 00:00
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Tiger Spirit [9788]
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Re: I don't know about that, but I do know this, Clemson games started looking like
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Aug 18, 2024, 4:44 PM
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By the authority vested in me, I absolve you from any comments that related you in any way shape or form to any cooterdom.....
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Standout [229]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 2:16 PM
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Some of it was recruiting misses at receiver, quarterback and offense line. Then you add in lack of development at those positions. We lost some great coaches in Hobby, Brooks and Caldwell, not to mention the Brad, Jeff, Brent and Tony, that's a lot of experience to lose. Especially when you don't replace them with equal or better coaches.
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Tiger Spirit [9788]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
Aug 18, 2024, 4:45 PM
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That is totally fair - I think they missed so badly at QB with Ukulele that it set the program back a few seasons.
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Solid Orange [1340]
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All-Pro [714]
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Tiger Titan [50733]
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Elliott wasnt nearly as good without Deshaun or Trevor.
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Aug 19, 2024, 4:13 PM
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Heck, even Streeter did much better than Elliott did with DJU.
I like Tony, he’s a great guy. But he benefited greatly from the generational talent he worked with at Clemson. I don’t think he will succeed at UVA, but I’m glad he jumped at the chance while his stock was high.
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CU Medallion [20860]
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Not an excuse here as Dabo and staff were still responsible for getting them
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Aug 18, 2024, 2:40 PM
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all here - but I am firmly of the belief that Covid's in-person restrictions over several recruiting cycles robbed us of some secret sauce in better assessing the intangibles that has been our hallmark under Dabo's time here.
For the longest spell there we could count on significant player leadership within the program that propelled us much further than our recruiting rankings or overall star power should normally deliver. When the 2021 season kicked off, this extra fire seemed noticeably absent. Ship, who exuded leadership and drive, was injured for much of our opening stretch. Once he got in the lineup as a mainstay mid-season, we ran the table. We continued to run the table to start 2022 up to the ND game. Unfortunately, we simply lacked more players with that mindset in too many positions.
With the 2023 class, the first to get more of the full treatment over that stretch, it seems like we're getting back to that mentality that made us one of the toughest outs in the game. Closing out with a 5-game winning streak after that bleak start speaks volumes. The 2024 seems packed with much of the same.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Dabo, with the most selective offer sheet in the game, has proven he knows the mindset, mixed with talent, that it takes to win championships regardless of program funding or alumni base size. For several cycles there he was handicapped on identifying those intangibles that bred the right kind of leadership. I believe we'll soon find out that those days are over.
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All-Pro [703]
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This like you and many others have said.
Aug 19, 2024, 5:21 PM
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The leadership has been way down at least from what we see on the field and sidelines on game day. To me it’s seemed like on offense no one likes anybody. It’s a whole bunch of individuals out there and not a unit. That seems to be changing. Players seemed to begin reacting positively to Cade once he got on the field.
The QB game knowledge is down to. When is the last time we’ve heard about the QB changing a play in the huddle or at the line (that worked). Going back to Boyd and Watson we heard several times how they changed the call that lead to big plays. Trevor called most of the game himself. Our QB IQ has had a major impact on offense as well. We get the offense going we are a top 12 team and in the playoff. The defense had showed season after season they are there and not going away.
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Legend [6965]
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Re: Two things we have missed from the NC years.
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Aug 18, 2024, 4:01 PM
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They were named Renfrow and Wilkins. They were leaders. I haven't seen their type since they left. All the way back to '81 we had Jeff Davis, and probably another or two. I think we've got great players, and very good coaches, but maybe we need players on the field to own the team.
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Oculus Spirit [42279]
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I like Ship, he brought his best every play.
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Aug 18, 2024, 5:18 PM
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But while I know many people will disagree, he isn’t as big or fast or tough as he thinks he is in his own mind. His heart is his biggest strength and that’s a great thing to have.
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Dynasty Maker [3506]
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China virus
Aug 18, 2024, 6:03 PM
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We are not allowed to have new recruits on campus!
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Commissioner [1227]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
Aug 18, 2024, 7:27 PM
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The loss of Scott in December 19 was HUGE. That messed up the secret sauce recipe on offense. Had Trevor come back for 21 we may have gotten different results. The effects of Covid on recruiting took a couple years to show up as did the loss of the combined effects of Scott and Elliott. Then abnormal injuries and poor replacement of assistant coaches all come together in a perfect storm that saw the loss of 6-7 games we could and should have won. Remains to be seen how much longer it takes to fully recover. Can we recover fully? Doubtful but we can still be good annually and great every few years instead of great every year. Going to be tough with NIL and conference relocation. But there’s no one else I would want in charge now. Hopefully Dabo himself has gotten a reset. Isn’t he now about the same age Saban was when he started at Bama?
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Paw Master [16363]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 7:56 PM
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DS post.
Over the last 3 years Dabo won 30 games. In Dabo's worst years in over a decade only 6 teams won more games. OP is an idiot.
Go Tigers!!
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Solid Orange [1342]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 8:35 PM
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Kinda like you and 20mg of Cialis!
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1st Rounder [649]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 18, 2024, 8:40 PM
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Wow.....Dabo allowed this program to become soft??? That's a real interesting statement. I don't think he allowed it to become soft, but there were a few questionable decisions that in hindsight we can see were failures. Streeter as QB coach was questionable but making him OC was a failure. Hiring of Austin as OLINE coach was a failure. This particular failure was crucial because the OLINE position coach is a position you can't miss on if you want your program to succeed. I am a big fan of Coach Luke and look forward to seeing an improved OLine play this season. There are other hires where the jury is still out on but time will tell. Then there is NIL...
well let's see how Sanders makes out at Tennessee......and as far as the portal....let's see how Clemson fares in the new playoff format. Time will tell....until then...NO MORE TALK!!! AUGUST 31ST @12NOON IN THE GEORGIA DOME!!! BEAT THEM DAWGS!!! GO TIGERS!!! ENOUGH SAID!!
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CU Guru [1574]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
Aug 19, 2024, 12:07 AM
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The problem is that you believe in magic and fairy tales.
We just don't have the same level of talent that we used to have. It's no more complicated than that.
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National Champion [7912]
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Brent Venables and Jeff Scott were paramount
Aug 19, 2024, 6:24 AM
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National Champion [7893]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 19, 2024, 6:40 AM
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Dabo made several bad hires and they missed on some recruits. Talent evaluation really has hurt them. There could of been some contentment that set in. It happens to most people except Saban. Another sign of softness is the amount of injuries over the past few seasons. Injuries are going to happen but the amount Clemson has had is a sign of other issues. Dabo knows what needs to happen and will get things back on track.
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Game Day Hero [4554]
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Never happened - Dabo is the GOAT
Aug 19, 2024, 7:17 AM
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be very happy he is here
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National Champion [7629]
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Re: How soft did Dabo allow this program to become over the years?
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Aug 19, 2024, 10:20 AM
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If you watch a practice, then and now, you will see a marked difference in full contact drills (like the Oklahoma drill) and seldom do you see players in full uniforms. Coaches these days are so scared to death of injuries, lawsuits and violating some petty NCAA rule re: contact, that Tuesday/Wednesday practices of today look more like the Friday "walk thrus" of a few years back. You are right, the game has changed to a softer version of what we once knew.
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Tiger Titan [50733]
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When Chad Morris arrived, we were a soft football team.
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Aug 19, 2024, 4:07 PM
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We weren’t tough. We lacked an identity. And that’s why we were so inconsistent.
He helped transform not just the offense, but the entire team. We fed off of his personality.
Venables brought more toughness to the defense.
Morris and Venables transformed our program more than anything else, because they changed the culture and persona.
Unfortunately, since then we’ve hired some bland, low energy coaches. Elliott, Austin, Grisham, Goodwin, etc. are great guys, but they are not the type of guys who players want to run through a brick wall for. I think that’s been obvious as we’ve seen our program decline over the last 4-5 years.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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This was addressed with Luke and Rumph. We lacked salty coaches.***
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Aug 19, 2024, 5:00 PM
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CU Guru [1574]
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Re: When Chad Morris arrived, we were a soft football team.
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Aug 19, 2024, 7:03 PM
[ in reply to When Chad Morris arrived, we were a soft football team. ] |
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To say that Clemson wasn't tough before Chad Morris arrived is simply not true. When Auburn won the National Championship in 2010, Gene Chizik said Clemson was the most physical game they played all year.
Not to mention, Morris ran a finess offense.
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Rival Killer [2728]
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Good lowered.***
Aug 19, 2024, 6:07 PM
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National Champion [8071]
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I get your Drift! Others do too don't be fooled.
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Aug 19, 2024, 6:21 PM
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The Team!
The Team - "needs to be mentally and physically tough"! Heck, have all the practices at Jervey.
People have posted it before and I really don't buy it - but perhaps our facilities are too nice. But, no. That can't be it; because Alabama and Georgia have just as nice facilities.
So, if not that, then what?
How do you get the mindset of the team as a whole to be about having: "GRIT and Determination"?
I get what you mean RunJumpCatch®
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