quozzel

Ring of Honor [21690]

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Can America be "saved"?

Feb 20, 2025, 11:41 AM

I personally don't think so, which is a big reason I've been so quiet lately. (The other, even bigger one is that I've been insanely busy...including a move to South Dakota. Did you know it was freaking -20F last night? And I thought Detroit was cold. Sweet Jesus. Detroit is balmy and tropical in comparison. There ain't nothing "South" about South Dakota, fellas.)

But where my head's been at is a place even colder: I think America, in its present form, is already dead. Mind, that doesn't mean Americans are dead, or that civilization is about to collapse and fall into chaos. But our present system of government, which was established in 1784 by a bunch of guys who hopped off horse-drawn carriages after weeks of travel, is done. It has no capacity to save itself. I hate it, personally. The thought does things to my stomach, and fills me with a sadness in a way I've never quite felt before. But IMHO, the sooner we accept it, the sooner we can get around to the real question - what's next, and how do we get there?

A lot of us on here seem to think we're smart, and I'd agree. There's a ton of very smart folks on here, and from fields all across the work spectrum. But we've collectively been idiots, and we've been getting owned by the MAGA Morlocks led by Donald freaking Trump because they realized something very simple: to take power, all they had to do was break stuff. The rest of us keep talking, keep trying to fix it...but it isn't fixable, not with what amounts to a tribe of "chimpanzees with chainsaws" (in the words of Steven Colbert) merrily hacking away at our institutions. And we don't have the power to stop them, not peaceably, anyhow...and if we resort to non-peaceful means, it's civil war. And then everybody loses.

The fundamental problem is this: platforming. Every nincompoop and lunatic with a podcast has a platform now, and the more outrageous and controversial you are, the more engagement you get. For most of the last 80+ years since WW2, there were the "Big Three" - CBS, NBC, ABC - in terms of networks, and while this exclusive club had plenty of problems, they all agreed on the rules of the road and on a basic standard of conduct and a basic set of facts. And these networks were also fully aware of their power, were owned by Americans, and had a basic sense of social responsibility, even if only it was to seek profit. If they set civilization on fire, they'd sell fewer ad slots.

And then Fox got into the garden, and Rupert Murdoch - an English/Australian blueblooded oligarch with contempt for democracy in general and the common man in particular - essentially bought himself American citizenship. And suddenly there was a new, far more negative voice in the chorus...and one with a very different set of values and an owner with absolutely no regard or respect for the USA (or its values) beyond the size of its market. Rupert also wasn't alone. Almost overnight, cable news became a 24/7 phenomena, all clamoring for engagement and for eyeballs, and then the Internet happened, and what had turned into competing noise turned into all-out anarchy, pretty much the literal embodiment of the Biblical "Tower of Babble". It was a million voices all speaking different languages, all screaming at the top of their lungs, and yet never communicating.

Our constitution guarantees the right of freedom of speech. It's an essential right and one that deserves to be protected. The problem here is, this is also the very thing that's killing us, because it now allows any number of bad actors - some of which are literally spreading the propaganda of our enemies - to pour their poison into the earholes of the susceptible...on the left and on the right. We have left-wing nincompoops screaming about the poor, oppressed Palestinians (a lot of whom would literally murder them on the spot), and about the evils of Zionism and "Western Imperialism." (Apparently Islamic imperialism is fine...but then, this sh!t doesn't have to make sense.) And on the far right...MAGA. An allegedly "populist", anti-Establishment movement...run by billionaires with open contempt for their followers. (Again, this sh!t doesn't have to make rational sense...and it doesn't.) And in between we have every form of wingnut, conspiracy theorist, identity-politics rabble-rouser, and religious zealot, all screaming their crazy into the void...with bad actors from across the world gleefully throwing kerosene on the fire.

And amidst all that, our leadership has gone from bad to worse...and we had a major governance issue anyhow, because our Constitution, as I mentioned, was written back in 1784...and it's definitely showing its age. It's been gridlocked for a long, long time now - the last Amendment we passed (the 27th) was passed on May 7, 1992 - and it's now gone from "gridlocked" to "completely dysfunctional." Does anyone seriously think that a Congress composed of the likes of Chuck Schumer, Marjorie Taylor Green, and Ted Cruz is going to "save" America? If so, puff-puff-give already, I'll have some of what you're smoking. And because our system has absolutely no ability to stop the bad actors from making the stupid, fearful, and credulous all crazy-like, we're not getting any better leaders anytime soon. It's a death spiral, and I see no way out. Our democratic government is dead. One person, one vote simply doesn't work anymore when the majority of the voters have gone completely batsh!t. Nor is America alone - democracies all over the world are failing, under siege from the very same chaos chorus that's destroying the USA.

Traditional government - traditional democracy - simply cannot survive the Internet. I'd love to be wrong...if you think so, convince me. How do we get back to rationality with the present limitations of the American system, and how it's crumbling in front of the "firehose of falsity" like a sand castle in high tide? I'm listening.

And that in turn begs the question - if traditional representative democracy in its old form is dead, what's next? I have some ideas - and it involves the very Internet that's destroying our old form of government. But I'm curious to hear what you fellas think.

So: how do we stop this ongoing train wreck...or at least, salvage what's worth salvaging from the wreckage and move forwards? What are we trying to build...and how do we realistically get there?

If we allegedly "smart" people are going to solve this, we'd better start talking to each other. Because what we're doing now isn't working. In case you didn't notice, Donald Trump won, and Joe Biden was basically the dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's, getting propped up and wheeled around like a cardboard cutout by only who knows who...and that's no good either.

So sound off. How about we work the problem instead?

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America's biggest problem isn't a political party, or a President (is now, but traditionally isn't), it isn't activists judges. It isn't DEI, or LBGTQZXIP....whatever. It isn't racism. it isn't any of that. It isn't even the internet, not directly anyway.

America's biggest problem, and if you think about it long term, if you're old enough to know, our biggest problem is the one branch of governemnt that hasn't seen approval above 20% in forever. CONGRESS. EVERYONE hates Congress, and yet everyone loves their representatives. Congress is corrupt, they enrich themselves with our tax dollars, funding grants and programs while buying up stock on the front end, and selling high after throwing our tax dollars to a company they KNOW will benefit from the dollars they choose to send.

And they're perpetually reelected, so long as they can bring home the bacon for their constituents. So they spend, and legislate not only to spend, but also to deflate the dollar, so they CAN spend. As for the internet, it was CONGRESS that chose to opt the internet out from traditional regulation, in order for new internet companies to make more profits. Chasing profits is not always chasing what is right, or best.

The states created our federal governemnt, and at this point, only they can save it, IMO. We will go broke and fail if nothing changes with Congress, no matter who is in the White House. Congress has strung this along, and Presidents too, for as long as possible. The pandemic really threw the wrench in the plan IMHO. Problem is no one IN POWER, or SEEKING POWER, has an interest in solving our problems.

And I'm actually shocked the ONE solution, that would be explicitly "constitutional" is not even whispered by Trump, Vance, or anyone in Congress. It is something that could force Congress to comply with rules over 80% of Americans agree with. The percentage of Americans who think Congress is doing a bad job, is roughly equal to the percentage of Americans who would like to see their terms limited. Same for a balanced budget. And yet the most "republican" solution, forget the political party, the most republic-like solution is one the republican party won't even mention. The few who do are walked right out of Congress. And if you run for President, you can count Congress out for cooperation.

America can only be saved if it saves itself. That won't be in the form of a single person, or a single party. That will be in the form of the states acting, in unison, to bypass and force federal structural reforms, specifically in Congress.

Can America be "saved"?

Re: Can America be "saved"?

Which you dont care about. Trump added a record

Re: Which you dont care about. Trump added a record

And you support them adding $4T more to our debt.

Re: And you support them adding $4T more to our debt.

Re: Can America be "saved"?

The Framers design was perfect ... its the people that made it flawed.

Agree with some. Disagree with some.

Re: Agree with some. Disagree with some.

Two things here

Re: Two things here

I'd rather

Re: Two things here

Re: Can America be "saved"?

It'll have to be saved from the MAGA side...

Re: Can America be "saved"?

The kitchen is on fire

Re: The kitchen is on fire

I think you've sadly said it.

Costa Rica

Belize looks nice

headed there in 4 weeks for spring break

Aaaaannnnnnddddddd there it is.***

We've listened to eight years...

Re: We've listened to eight years...

When a small group of people set out to wreck a free nation

77 Million people disagree that your first assertion is happening.

77 million people were given a garbage choice...

Lets get to the part where we round up the MAGAs like the Nazis in Nuremberg.

Re: Lets get to the part where we round up the MAGAs like the Nazis in Nuremberg.

Re: I think you've sadly said it.

You're right. It has.

Took hitler twice.***

It's not going to require blood but it's going to require actual consequences

Re: It's not going to require blood but it's going to require actual consequences

Re: It's not going to require blood but it's going to require actual consequences

I have moved out of the USA of probably for good sadly.

Re: I have moved out of the USA of probably for good sadly.

Coming to visit

Re: Can America be "saved"?

Good stuff. I think we definitely still have the ability to correct course and

Good dialog except for the typical

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