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Topic: Mark Packer ...finally someone using common sense RE: COVID
Replies: 36   Last Post: Jul 1, 2020 4:02 PM by: allinallorangeallthetime52®
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Mark Packer ...finally someone using common sense RE: COVID

[22]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 8:38 AM
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Yesterday talking to Ben Leber they discussed how little impact COV19 has on the college athlete demographic. They seemed to be a little heistant to break from the herds and talk in terms of real risk. BUT THEY DID! We are all going to be exposed, why not let the healthy population (football players and other student athletes) return, get the virus, get over if (if there are sympotoms at all) and contribute to building herd and individual immunity.

One of the most telling statements was basically that if lawyers and liabilities weren't involved (people trying to cover their butts) we would handle this totally differenly. An admission that most of this is about transfer of liability.

It was refreshing to hear someone with a national platform talk common sense. We can't reduce all risk. Most WILL be exposed at some point. The sooner we accept this the quicker we can move on.

Message was edited by: Manning_Tiger®


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Yep, most will eventually be exposed and exact reason oldies like..

[12]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 8:46 AM
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Joe21 & I are staying busy but being as safe as possible too while doing our Thing (his finishing WW2 & Korean Book..and me coastal boating) b/c if it gets us boys, we’re finished.

Saying, be safe & ready but busy with your Life!

Go TiGERS!

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To All CLEMSON TiGERS..Sending you Bright Light from the Carolina Coast and hoping you get to witness a huge Orange sunset tonight. Go Tigers!


Re: Yep, most will be exposed and exact reason oldies like..

[6]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 9:06 AM
    Reply

I hope not bill. I'm counting on you two to outlast all of us

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Re: Yep, most will be exposed and exact reason oldies like..

[6]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 9:50 AM
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LBB, something will get us all. I believe old codgers like us can survive a little virus, now dealing with all the liberal BS is another thing.


Re: Yep, most will eventually be exposed and exact reason oldies like..

[4]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 12:11 PM
    Reply

My neighbors mother had Covid19 in April. Shes 98 years old and is doing great! So a positive diagnosis isn't the end Bill. Stay safe my friend!


Re: Yep, most will eventually be exposed and exact reason oldies like..

[4]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 7:40 PM
    Reply

My friend’s 102 year old grandmother had it as well and beat it.


If Dem Krauts and Chicoms Didn't Get Joe I Doubt Some

[3]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 2:10 PM
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Chinese virus will.

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Re: Yep, most will eventually be exposed and exact reason oldies like..


Posted: Jul 1, 2020 4:02 PM
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Yep, me to Bill, but what Manning was saying sounds a crock of BS to me bc, just this morning on the news they were saying that covid 19 had killed a couple of 17 year olds, a couple of days ago. I just hope that ones catching it on purpose, I hope they don't cause someone else to die from it, but if they do, I hope it's someone in their family and not other unsuspecting person not knowing they had been infected!!!

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Re: Mark Packer ...finally someone using common sense RE: COVID

[9]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 8:50 AM
    Reply

Unfortunately, there is no data and no reason to suspect that an individual can 'get Covid' and get it over with. Covid seems to be like the flu. You can have the flu many times in your life because the flu virus mutates regularly. That's why this year's vaccine is no assurance you will not get the flu again. If you get a flu shot you are unlikely to get last years flu this year, but you may very well get this year's current version of the flu.

Right now, there is no assurance we are likely to 'move on' having all seen the end of Covid.


I agree with the idea that younger people should be allowed to continue with normal activities if they choose to do so, knowing they may get Covid, but will likely survive.

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Re: Mark Packer ...finally someone using common sense RE: COVID

[4]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 9:06 AM
    Reply

I agree...i don't think we will see the end. I guess I mean "move on" mentally. Accept this as a part of our lives, much like the flu.

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Sadly, the biggest change I’ve seen in the past couple of weeks is liability concerns.

[5]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 8:51 AM
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I am having people sign a waiver when they come in to my office now. Not bc I wanted to but because it was recommended as a means of CYA.

Also, pools are closed bc of such concerns.

Such a shame.

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Re: Mark Packer ...finally someone using common sense RE: COVID

[4]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 9:15 AM
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Been saying this for a while. All these people shouting “listen to science”. It’s not about scientist anymore. It’s about lawyers. We live in a sue happy society. It’s all about mitigating liability at this point.

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Re: Mark Packer ...finally someone using common sense RE: COVID


Posted: Jun 30, 2020 9:52 AM
    Reply

Well we all know the old saying, "what do you call a 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?..................................................................................


I'm all for ending this mess as soon as possible...

[3]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 9:50 AM
    Reply

but at this point, is there any evidence that suggests getting infected with the COVID-19 virus makes a person immune to future infection.

If that's not the case, the prospect of building herd and individual immunity (developing antibodies against future infection) goes out the window.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


I wonder if catching it (and being mostly asymptomatic)


Posted: Jun 30, 2020 10:55 AM
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means that you can catch it many times and remain mostly unaffected? I would think it does.

(Editors note: I'm not a doctor, but I DID see a GEICO commercial yesterday)

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makes sense but


Posted: Jun 30, 2020 10:24 AM
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the problem is if the player or student gives covid to an older family member and they have severe or fatal results

I am concerned about the coaches and players that have unknown underlying health issues that may cause the virus to be more severe

AND the unknown about how the virus will affect the individual in the future

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Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


Darnell Jefferies comes to mind with this

[3]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 10:32 AM
    Reply

He didn't know he was diabetic, and only because his mom recently was tested for it, he got tested and it turns out that he was Type 2. Now he's in a higher risk category

2020 white level member

Clemson


I agree with him. I don't think there will be a season

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 10:51 AM
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unless it's decided that the players are "allowed" to catch it from each other (otherwise - how will they practice and play?). 98.6% of them will be asymptomatic (that's a stat I just made up).

The rub is: SOME player in the country WILL catch it and die. So - will that be considered an "inherent risk"? Because SOME player in the country does die on the football/practice field each year from some other "inherent risk" of playing football.

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I am Very surprised

[2]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 10:59 AM
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That Packer would make such a foolish comment. He nor anyone else knows if “herd immunity” even exists with this virus. I guess this is where Boomer got his idea.


nothing wrong with it, it was a discussion on talk radio

[2]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 11:44 AM
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seems like that's a good place for it.

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Exactly.

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 3:20 PM
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I was just talking to a friend about this last week. If CFB is played across the country this year, eventually some player with underlying conditions is going to get really sick from Covid and potentially die. How will the public view this? Or how will schools and conferences deal with the possibility of this happening? Is the fear of that enough to cancel the season?

You also bring up the other important fact here: nearly every year a player dies on the practice field, usually from something like an undiagnosed heart defect but occasionally from negligence and incompetence such as the Maryland tragedy a couple years back that resulted in the firing of Durkin and his staff.

Generally a player dying is viewed as a tragedy and not a scandal. Only in situations like Maryland where this is real negligence and possible abuse is there public backlash. But how would a Covid death be viewed? Would it be seen more as negligence since football isn't necessary? Obviously there's a possibility this player could get Covid somewhere down the road even without football, but being together with the football team on campus probably makes it more likely. Is that a significant factor?

I just have a strong suspicion that any big time coach would be eviscerated by the public if a player got seriously ill or, God forbid, died from Covid.

2020 white level member

I think his point was this:

[2]
Posted: Jul 1, 2020 8:26 AM
    Reply

https://technocracy.news/cdc-confirms-extremely-low-covid-19-death-rate/


For most people, covid is not enough reason to shutdown normal activity. The question is how to live in that world, and that is what they Were discussing.

2020 white level member

Throw the kids to the wovles!

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 11:04 AM
    Reply

Not like we aren't already exploiting them for their raw athletic ability anyway! They are slaves to their scholarship, right?


Not to mention, there is NO data that herd immunity will even be a consideration with this virus.

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Re: Throw the kids to the wovles!

[4]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 11:27 AM
    Reply

Here's a truth. Now that the Covid is in the environment
there will never be a time that you will be "safe" from it.

Just like polio and smallpox, it will always be out there.
Even though there are really effective vaccines for these, there are still
anti-vaxxers that will allow it to rear its head up.
A vaccine might prevent it from coming back and allow for some
immunity but it will likely mutate and render the vaccine useless.

The best that humanity can hope for is a vaccine that works, or to find
out that herd immunity is possible, or find a treatment plan that works. My bet is on
a workable treatment b/c the other two things may not be attainable.

But, it will always be in the environment...from now until the end of time.

Everyone will eventually come in contact with it. I am one on the list of vulnerable
people in both age and underlying condition. I cannot hide from it forever just like the
rest of us.

We need to level out the fear of this, we will never level out its infectiousness


Not sure if serious... hope my meter is broken.

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 11:50 AM
    Reply

You got me if it is.

They have the opportunity to walk away from their scholarship at any time. In the way you used it, we are all slave to our employer. I own my own business and I guess I am a slave to my clients. I guess I am also being exploited by my clients because I am good at what I do. The only way to not be a slave is to be independently wealthy... but then I guess you would still be a slave to the government due to taxes.

Your word choice was very poor. Do not make slavery a light subject by equating it to what essentially operates as a job.


If you don't think these kids are being exploited


Posted: Jun 30, 2020 12:03 PM
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for a billion dollar industry, then I don't know where else to go with our conversation.

Of course they can walk away. But the things some people ask of them are beyond ridiculous. This notion is ####### insane. They are not expendable. I used the word slaves to prove that some people think that "we" own them and can do whatever we see fit; like expose them (some even suggest intentionally) to a virus that could actually kill them. All so you have something to do on a Saturday?

DO NOT equate what you or I do for employment with football athletic scholarship; apples to oranges. These kids do not get "paid" anywhere near what they are worth or what they produce. Would you work for the same "rate" that they do? #### no, you wouldn't.

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Re: If you don't think these kids are being exploited

[2]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 3:12 PM
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BS, Add up College tuition, Housing , Food etc. It will come out to many peoples yearly income. However the yearly income people people do not have the opportunity of signing for a multi Million dollar contract in 3 to 5 years.
These athletes work their butts off to play and have that opportunity but don’t act like it is a nuisance and they are being Exploited. Ask any paying for tuition and working college kid if they would love a scholarship , housing and meals and the opportunity for a contract afterwards, other than the occasional poindexter.


I don't see it any different than a patent situation

[5]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 3:50 PM
    Reply

I have a patent so I know how it works. The company you work for owns the patent because you work for them and they are the one that makes the money off of the patent. Does that make me a slave? No, it means I agreed to this situation as a term of employment - even though the company may make millions of dollars from the patent.

A student-athlete at Clemson agrees to play a sport in exchange for free tuition, free room, free food, free tutoring, free clothing (all they want) and in the end a free degree that can take care of them the rest of their lives. Most of them do not go on to play professional sports at any level so they, in actually, did receive a degree in exchange for their athletic ability alone.

So does the University benefit from them playing their sport? Sure, but let's not act like they are being exploited when most sports don't make enough money to even cover their own expenses.

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Kind of agree - it's not a 0% risk for college aged kids

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 12:04 PM
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If we expose 12,000 players to Covid intentionally, and the hospitalization rate for that age group is around 2% (see https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6915e3.htm), that's 240 hospitalized players. At least a few at every college / university. You want to take on those lawsuits?

The mortality rate for young adults is really low, but I don't know that it's less than 1/12,000.

Anybody that's intentionally exposing ANYBODY to Covid takes a pretty big risk.

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It's so early in this thing that we don't really know yet

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 12:08 PM
    Reply

what the lasting effects can be from contracting COVID-19. Some suggest that it can cause life-long damage to lung tissue, causing further issues down the road.

So while death is very, very low in this age group, we don't really know if that is the only concern with contracting the disease.

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Re: It's so early in this thing that we don't really know yet

[1]
Posted: Jul 1, 2020 8:47 AM
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Yes, thank you. I've seen so many on this topic connect dots that they have neither the education nor professional experience to connect those dots. I've seen stories of high school and college age athletes dying from COVID already. They talk on ESPN about pro athletes who can't return to workouts from even a glancing blow of COVID...not even hospitalized...but still their lungs are in such bad shape they can't train and condition.

I want college sports as much as the next person but I would hate to be the one who has to say Yay or Nay for it to happen. The pros can hide away in their hotels and play to fanless stadiums. College kids have to take classes and live on/near campus. I'm just trusting the bigger brains who know more about the virus and the logistics of college sports to decide what is right, what is best.


Re: Throw the kids to the wovles!


Posted: Jun 30, 2020 12:20 PM
    Reply

How dare we expect anything from our booster fees! I am still awaiting my baseball ticket refund...

We should call the season off, retract their scholarships for 2020, and get a refund for our state taxes as an alumnus and state taxpayer.


Re: Throw the kids to the wovles!

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 1:20 PM
    Reply

It amazes me that people make comments like this, and then pretend as if they care about the players for any reason beyond what they can do on the field.


Unfortunately there remains so much to be learned about

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 11:29 AM
    Reply

this virus, and with so many mixed messages coming from national leadership there is little "common" knowledge to work with among the whole lot of us.

Legal liability measures really need to be enacted pronto to protect schools and businesses from Covid-related lawsuits or we will continue to be stuck in neutral. Schools will not reopen without this protection, and we know what that means.

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Clay Travis discussed this in detail the other day and even.

[1]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 11:53 AM
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wrote an article about it....and part of it was piggybacking on the CDC study release (which you cant find anywhere unless you are specifically looking for it..bc politics) saying they think 26 million people have already gotten it...thats the CDC!

Yes its deadly and moreso to the older demographic but somewhere along the lines its completely lost on folks that life happens and many other things are killers too....like the regular flu.

Here's the link to Clay's article and then a link to the CDC study is included in the article.

https://outkick.com/cdc-now-estimates-there-have-been-over-20-million-coronavirus-cases/



One of the main nightly news outlets (maybe ABC) covered

[4]
Posted: Jun 30, 2020 12:25 PM
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this CDC report. And their take on it was:

"Oh my Gosh! There are 10X more people walking around with this virus, meaning we need to really shut down because there is an ever greater threat of it spreading!"

I was unable to stop myself from giving them the world's second biggest eye roll...

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I agree with what you said and even TU'ed.

[1]
Posted: Jul 1, 2020 11:13 AM
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I would like to add that I want thoughtful reopening of businesses while continuing to emphasize social distancing and proper wearing of face masks. I know that if I go to a restaurant or bar that I have to take my mask off to eat/drink. In a restaurant situation I have noticed socially distanced tables for the most part. However, I also believe that bars either need to observe this same social distancing or not be allowed to open. If I owned a bar, I would mandate social distancing. I would even turn the music down to reduce the tendency for people to get very close to each other to be able to hear the conversation.

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No matter who you vote for, BUY AMERICAN...it's a vote for American jobs.


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