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Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school
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Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

emoji_events [5]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:25 AM

Don't get me wrong. I love Ship's toughness and tenacity, but he came in the reputation and track background of guy who could take one to the house at any given time. On his first run from scrimmage, he was fresh (so no excuses for tired legs) and he still got chased down relatively quickly. We all know Travis would have hit his head on the goalpost if he had broke free like that.

I lot people have said that he's the fastest guy on the offense and the 2nd fastest on the team (behind Nate). That's tells me that we've definitely got some more work to do on the recruiting trail to get more guys on the roster with top in speed.

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I'll take his mix of speed

emoji_events [11]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:27 AM

strength, determination, and grit.

The dude is a dude, if you know what I mean.

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Re: I'll take his mix of speed


Sep 27, 2022, 4:41 PM

I second that.

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He has never been a breakaway speed guy. Never was***


Sep 26, 2022, 9:31 AM



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Best Is The Standard


So why have him returning kicks?

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:37 AM

Don't you put your most explosive guy with speed in that spot? You do and that's why he's there, which goes back to my original point and underlying problem. We need to recruit more speed and explosive guys on the roster.

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Are you going to replace Collins at Georgia Tech ?

[4]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:42 AM

You must be allowed to use your coaching acumen.

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Re: So why have him returning kicks?

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:51 AM

Renfrow returned kicks, was he the fastest guy on the team? No. Maybe stick to engineering.

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Renfrow returned punts not kickoffs

[2]
Sep 26, 2022, 11:09 AM

You don't need a burner to return punts. You just need a reliable fielder of the ball with short area quickness. That's exactly what Renfrow was. Eventually it will probably be Antonio who fits the same mold. There's a reason why the punt returner often times isn't the kick returner. It requires a little different skillset. Some guys can do both, but most can't. You want the burner returning the kickoffs because you get a 10-15 yd running start. That's why you never saw Renfrow doing that.

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Usually those guys are at WR and CB, along with RB***


Sep 26, 2022, 12:21 PM



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Re: So why have him returning kicks?


Sep 26, 2022, 12:23 PM

His brain, speed and toughness. He has a great eye for assessing the defense and finding a way through.

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Re: So why have him returning kicks?


Sep 26, 2022, 10:08 PM

My coot fanboi follower still following me around and TDing every post Even some regarding E11a Bresee - anyone want to guess the cowards user id? I'll give you a hint, he has an extremely severe case of OCD. He should probably be supervised for his own safety.

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Our special teams don't work like...


Sep 27, 2022, 4:11 PM

that: avoiding a TO seems to be the goal on punts and kicks. He's great player but not as fast as advertised.

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He was definitely billed as such when we signed him.


Sep 26, 2022, 9:42 AM

Shipley may project as the top three-down running back in the class of 2021. He possesses track speed and home run ability from any position on the field -- inside, outside, in the passing game or return game.

https://www.si.com/college/clemson/recruiting/2021-rb-will-shipley-signs-national-letter-of-intent-with-clemson#:~:text=Will%20Shipley%2C%20one%20of%20the%20top%20running%20backs,of%20Matthews%2C%20NC%2C%20has%20officially%20signed%20with%20Clemson
.

Everybody expected this to be the case.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: He has never been a breakaway speed guy. Never was***


Sep 26, 2022, 12:46 PM

Sub 4.5 40 should get the job done.

https://www.on3.com/teams/clemson-tigers/news/clemson-tigers-football-will-shipley-running-back-depth-chart-starting/


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I really don't think Ship would run sub 4.5 at the combine

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 12:57 PM

right now. Etienne's best at his pro day was 4.41, and he was quite a bit faster than Ship. If i had to guess i would say Ship is in the 4.5-4.55 range.

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Pretty sure ETN ran a 4.31 and a 4.33


Sep 26, 2022, 2:38 PM

at Pro Day.

Ship has been timed at a sub 4.5 several times. He was also (NC) state champion in 55m (~60 yards) with a 6.36s.

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If it's hand-timed it doesn't count


Sep 26, 2022, 6:19 PM

I can't even verify this was laser, but:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/2021-nfl-draft-travis-etienne-helps-himself-at-clemson-pro-day


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those Pro Day times always support the home team, always a fast track ****


Sep 27, 2022, 4:18 PM



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Yep****


Sep 27, 2022, 4:15 PM



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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[3]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:32 AM

I was expecting the same last year to see him break off some runs like ETN but the more I watched him the more it became apparent he may not have that extra high end gear of an ETN or Spiller. Maybe he's closer to James Davis or Ellington speed on the field where he's quick but just lacks the top end/elite speed.

FWIW that WF defender also could've been one of their blazers as he was booking it and had a decent angle.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[2]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:57 AM

Don't put Ellington in that category with Davis and Shipley.

He wasn't Spiller fast, but we have scored easily on that first play on Saturday.

You may need to go back and check the highlights from some of Ellington's long runs and kickoff returns for TDs.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 11:00 AM

Beat me to it. Agreed.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

emoji_events [5]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:33 AM

You do realize the defender that caught him got a jump before Ship even got into space right? ETN/Spiller take that to the house but you can’t compare all RBs to their ungodly speed

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^^^ This ^^^ is exactly right.***


Sep 26, 2022, 10:17 AM



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No, according to the OP we're a slow team,


Sep 26, 2022, 10:26 AM

and we need to recruit more ETNs. Anyone have a list of those guys to send to Dabo?

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:35 AM

Huge difference between high school and Clemson plus after ETN, Shipley is tough but just looks slow.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

emoji_events [7]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:37 AM

Great post. Found an avenue to criticize a great back and the recruiting in one post.

Nice job.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 9:37 AM

He's quick and elusive in tight spaces, but yeah he never had the breakaway speed like Spiller or ETN. His high school highlights may look like he did given their opponents, but anything more than 50 yards a DB will more than likely run him down. I'll take his toughness and ability to gain that extra needed tho, he's been more than enough.

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Most of the greatest RBs in history weren't the fastest guys

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:37 AM

On the field. Barry sanders, Walter Payton, Emmett Smith, just to name a few. CJ and ETN were aberrations for us at RB as well. If you look at our RB records you see guys like priester, Davis, Gallman and Allen who weren't burners.

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Re: Most of the greatest RBs in history weren't the fastest guys

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:12 AM

Have to disagree on Allen. Terry really worked hard at improving his speed, eventually running a 4.37. Checkout his 70 yard run against FSU when Leroy Butler had the angle. Guy could fly...

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He went from 4.7 to 4.4 in one summer. You connect the dots.***


Sep 26, 2022, 10:56 AM



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Sanders was way faster than Smith or Payton****


Sep 27, 2022, 4:23 PM



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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:41 AM

Do you ever say anything positive about the team? Your criticizing and negative takes about our team is wearing pretty thin.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:57 AM

Thank you. Some of these posters are amazing and not in a good way.

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His speed may not have changed

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:42 AM

but certainly opposing defenses are faster relative to what he saw in HS.

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most DBs are faster than most RBs, ETN and Spiller

[3]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:42 AM

were exceptions

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True, but everybody thought Shipley had that kind of speed

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:51 AM

too.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Tony Elliot on Shipley's speed:

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:02 AM

Tony Elliott on Shipley: "He's a man of many talents. Once he gets to the green grass, you're not going to catch him. Has tremendous speed.

Read more: https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-football/news/recruiting/signee-analysis-5-star-rb-will-shipley-37021#ixzz7g0CWTDL6


He may not be all that fast, but that was clearly the expectation. Every analyst and coach raved about his speed.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:58 AM

Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school
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Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school [1]
Sep 26, 2022, 9:25 AM
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Don't get me wrong. I love Ship's toughness and tenacity, but he came in the reputation and track background of guy who could take one to the house at any given time. On his first run from scrimmage, he was fresh (so no excuses for tired legs) and he still got chased down relatively quickly. We all know Travis would have hit his head on the goalpost if he had broke free like that.

I lot people have said that he's the fastest guy on the offense and the 2nd fastest on the team (behind Nate). That's tells me that we've definitely got some more work to do on the recruiting trail to get more guys on the roster with top in speed.

WOW JUST WOW. AND BY THE WAY WHAT IS TOP IN SPEED.

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Have You Ever Considered That Maybe The Competition Has


Sep 26, 2022, 10:02 AM

Gotten Faster????

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Of course, but I think the OP's point was that Shipley was


Sep 26, 2022, 10:23 AM

billed as a burner with elite speed coming into Clemson, with the expectation that he would be a home run threat from anywhere on the field. Then Saturday he was chased down from behind, which implies he may have lost a step. While there could be other reasons for that, it's a perfectly reasonable take, and a legit point for discussion.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Yea, we should have let Bama have him…

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:06 AM

Proofreading is always helpful when you are this stupid.

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Football speed is measured in the 40 yard dash for a reason.

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:14 AM

Having the “extra gear” is a great attribute, but top-end speed is not what evaluators look at first in a running back.

Plenty of the greatest running backs of all time would not win many 100 yard races, but they gain thousands of yards in smaller increments.

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Shipley was state champ in the 55 meters in HS. Definitely


Sep 26, 2022, 10:17 AM

had elite track speed.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


what class was he the state champ of:1a,2a, etc?***


Sep 27, 2022, 4:29 PM



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That relatively quickly to which you refer was 53 yards late


Sep 26, 2022, 10:17 AM

So he must have decent TOP IN speed

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Take a lap. Dumb post.***


Sep 26, 2022, 10:18 AM



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That shocked the heck out of me…

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:18 AM

Based on the talk, I thought he was blazing fast and had been waiting for him to break one so we could see the speed. He’s clearly not a top end speed guy, seems to be more of a tough runner like James Davis (which is a very good thing).

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[2]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:22 AM

I was surprised myself, but to an extent there is a difference between track speed and football speed. Shipley has to be concerned with ball security, so it is less of a natural running motion. It is going to affect some more than others. Some are also able to handle the restrictive motion and weight of the pads better as well.

Spiller supposedly wasn't even the fastest on the team. That title went to Jacoby Ford, but I would have put my money on CJ all day long if they were running in pads.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 10:25 AM

A great RB has vision and quickness. Some have power and some have pure speed.
I want the guy that can get 3 yards out of nothing. A guy that can block and catch the ball. Also someone who doesn't fumble and is injury prone.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 10:48 AM

The back that caught him had an angle on him, you need to watch a replay.

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Sure, but that's not really the point


Sep 26, 2022, 1:13 PM

We watched Etienne for 4 years recently and i can say with 100% confidence that nobody would've gotten close to catching him unless he pulled a hamstring. Regardless of whether the DB had an angle or not, we can estimate his speed off of what Etienne would've done on that play (beaten everyone to the EZ by 5+ yards).

Ship is fast, but i think it's reasonable to assume he's not a burner. If i had to guess i would say he's a 4.5-4.55 guy.

Whoever mentioned James Davis above was probably correct. James Davis ran a 4.55 at the combine, and i think Ship is probably comparable to JD in terms of speed, if not style. Davis rarely showed his straight line speed because he liked to weave in and out of defenders and set up blocks when he got loose in the secondary. However, in the few instances where he does get a head of steam, he looks pretty similar to what is saw from Ship on that 1st carry. Ship is maybe a tad faster.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 10:49 AM

Remember he's playing against college players now, not high schoolers. BIG difference. Ship is also bigger and stronger.

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That is what I think. I bet he has put on 15 lbs. I'll take


Sep 26, 2022, 10:59 AM

him inside the 5 over any back we have ever had. No one was tougher IMHO.

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I disagree.

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 10:49 AM

He's plenty fast enough.

I never expected him to have breakaway speed and never get caught from behind. That's incredibly rare.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


But the expectation coming in was that he was a guy that

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 11:13 AM

would not get caught from behind. That's the problem - every analyst and coach believed that Shipley had elite track speed, and was a breakaway threat every time he touched the ball. Of course, that doesn't mean he will NEVER, EVER get run down from behind, but you just don't expect to see it.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


It seems that you're the only one that understood the spirit

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 11:43 AM

of the OP. I think Shipley is a great back and I'm happy to have him and all the great things he does bring to the table. It just seems the public was mislead a bit by the speed he was purported to have. Clearly he's gotten bigger and stronger since his high school days. Some guys just can't maintain their speed after bulking up. I get it.

Dabo's another guy that has publicly talked about how fast Ship is. One of my pet peeves from Dabo is he overdoes it too much on how a guy "can fly". He even said Spector was fast. Lol!

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Exactly - I think a lot of people took it the wrong way.

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 12:15 PM

That's why I chimed in.

It seemed to me from the start, wasn't that you were bashing Shipley, not at all. You were simply pointing out that when Shipley was being recruited, and even after he was signed, word was that he was a speed guy, a track guy with track speed which translated to the football field, and he could take it to the house from anywhere on the field if he got a step on anybody. You did not misinterpret that, misrepresent it, or make it up. That is a fact. Therefore, it was perfectly reasonable and understandable to point out the apparent discrepancy when he was run down from behind on Saturday, as he did not look like a guy, in that instance, with elite speed. Of course, there could be good reasons why he was caught this time, none of which mean he's a bad human being or not a good player, but it was just a bit surprising to see him get caught from behind. That's all. That's it. No big deal.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Well, Dabo exaggerates everything.

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 12:50 PM

It's who he is. I don't think he's purposely lying, but he does tend to get carried away at times. It's part of what makes him Dabo.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


He doesn't exaggerate or get carried away.


Sep 26, 2022, 2:45 PM

But of course, he's not always right.. just most of the time.

Another veiled attempt at trolling shenanigans.. and another swing and a miss.

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I have always said he does not have breakaway speed but is a


Sep 26, 2022, 11:05 AM

good runner. That first run shows he can bust one but doesn't have that ET speed.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 11:07 AM

Maybe it was all those years of watching ETN but our team seems like a bunch of plodders. Could definitely use a speed infusion in a few areas.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 11:13 AM

It's not Ship that's lost a step. Our receivers are garbage at blocking. Only ones that seem to understand how important blocking is to the run game are Beaux and Williams. The rest can't sustain their blocks on DBs, thus allowing them to make TD-saving tackles on Ship and the other RB's. Seriously, go watch. WR blocking has fallen off a cliff since Scott left (other than the one season we were buoyed by Amari and Powell, both of which were wonderful edge blockers).

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Some on TNet Do NOT Understand Taking Angles

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 12:08 PM

His HS teammate took a great angle and got a great jump on the play. Watch the replay.

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Re: Some on TNet Do NOT Understand Taking Angles


Sep 26, 2022, 12:37 PM

Ship broke through the line untouched with a full head of steam so exactly how could the DB "get a jump" on him unless he knew the play was coming ahead of time?

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Re: Some on TNet Do NOT Understand Taking Angles


Sep 26, 2022, 12:42 PM

If Ship was faster than the DB, the angle would not have mattered. If he ran straight and was faster, the DB would not have been able to catch up. The angle was created because Ship veered left in order to gain more ground before being caught.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 12:10 PM

I also thought he would score. He got run down nothing to do with angles just got caught. Nothing negative against Shipley just thought we was going to score

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 12:19 PM

I actually thought the same thing on that run because when I looked at his film from high school, his breakaway speed was off the charts. Of course, that is nothing more than an eye test but it did surprise me how easily he was run down.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 12:26 PM

I too have been waiting for the opportunity to see Shipley showcase his breakaway speed and was somewhat surprised to see him get caught.

Will has a verified 6.36 55 meter indoor time as a high school sophomore! So, we can conclude that he had elite running back speed while in high school and this is why he was billed as such.

He did post a video on Twitter this spring, of him running on a treadmill at what he cited as a speed of 22.4 miles per hour.

Perhaps bulking up has caused him to lose some speed. Perhaps he hasn't lost a step and the guy that ran him down is faster (he runs 22.5 MPH) or had an angle.

I look forward to seeing Will have more opportunities break a long run!

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[2]
Sep 26, 2022, 12:50 PM

Here is where you went wrong. Referencing “a lot of people said” carries no weight as a lot of people are clueless, make up facts, confused or simply state their impression of a situation as fact.

Ship has put on a lot of muscle since high school. The added muscle is the reason he got stood up three yards from the goal line yet was still able to score. He has never been ETN/CJ fast but he is Gallman or James D fast.

BTW unless you have a CJ type talent the KO return guy is typically a more stout guy and the PR guy more elusive

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 1:00 PM

You just made a good point. I agree.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 1:07 PM

So, are you agreeing there has been a tradeoff between muscle and speed since HS?

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 12:50 PM

Here is where you went wrong. Referencing “a lot of people said” carries no weight as a lot of people are clueless, make up facts, confused or simply state their impression of a situation as fact.

Ship has put on a lot of muscle since high school. The added muscle is the reason he got stood up three yards from the goal line yet was still able to score. He has never been ETN/CJ fast but he is Gallman or James D fast.

BTW unless you have a CJ type talent the KO return guy is typically a more stout guy and the PR guy more elusive

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 1:04 PM

I think the comments have been about him winning all the sprint drills. What this tells me, more than anything, is he has an incredible motor. He goes hard the entire practice, including sprints. This doesn’t translate into one of the fastest on the team. Secondly, when you put on enough muscle to enable you to do what he did on the goal line Saturday, you might lose a half-step.

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Something similar happened with T. Feaster years back

[1]
Sep 26, 2022, 1:20 PM

He had nearly world class speed in high school. However, he came to college, bulked up a little and his burst was really never the same. Shipley is a much better overall college running back than Feaster was though IMO.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 26, 2022, 6:26 PM

Speed in college is a big difference than high school. Everyone is as fast as the next guy.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 27, 2022, 3:22 PM

Seriously complaining about a 53 yard run? Wow, what a loser.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school


Sep 27, 2022, 3:35 PM

Safety had an angle on him. He could have outran either, but to get the most yards in a great run he split the difference.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 27, 2022, 3:41 PM

I am guessing you missed the score that ship had in the last game? He was hit behind the line of scrimmage and twisted and fought to gain back what should have been a loss and then got the final few yards for the touchdown! Speed is not everything, once saw a Lambo get run down by a Nova,just saying!

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DOn;t care


Sep 27, 2022, 3:49 PM

I was dead wrong about the kid, well except he still sucks in pass pro. But I never in a million years thought he would be out our toughest back, always fighting for that extra yard, I can understand why he was so highly recruited, he has a chip on shoulder and uses that on the field.

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Re: Seems Shipley has lost a step since high school

[1]
Sep 27, 2022, 4:37 PM

I think he is more of a 20-40yd burst kind of guy than a Long break away RB. Don’t get me wrong, I know he can house one from time to time, but I don’t think he has that continuous torque like some of our RBs from the past. I think he is an absolute stud and we can hash defenses with him, then pound it in with Mafah and Pace. We can also pound the ball with Shipley. I really like our RB room right now, but I don’t expect many home run plays out of any of them.

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