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CU Medallion [20652]
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Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:30 PM
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I want to clarify that I did not call for Wes to be fired on Saturday. Instead, I raised a question about coaching adjustments. After seeing how a good OC hire made a difference for our offense, I wondered if a proven DC could potentially have a similar impact on our defense. It’s not about firing Wes, but about considering what has worked in the past with coaching hires.
Our defense, which was top 10 under Coach Venables, has slipped to #60 this season. This isn’t necessarily an indictment of Wes but a point to consider that adjustments at the coordinator level can lead to significant improvements, just like we saw with the offensive side of the ball.
I understand that some posters on Tnet may interpret critical observations as personal attacks, but this is about constructive analysis, not tribalism. If it were up to those same posters, we’d still be with Streeter, and our offense would be struggling.
By the way, let’s not forget that UGA scored 30+ points on us, showing that there are real issues to address on defense. The conversation should be about finding solutions, not protecting pride.
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CU Medallion [20095]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:33 PM
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Letting 2nd and 3rd stringgers gain experience means you give up top standings. Sure we could have kept our first string in and had a top ten D. But I rather have reserves ready to win bigger games in November and beyond. Go Tigers!!!!
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:39 PM
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I get it, and I agree. Still, the defense has been slipping, and I know replacing a Venables is hard. I have been on the fence with Wes; I won't lie. I just posed the question, and I'm tired of posters saying I was calling for Wes to be fired yesterday because it's not true. Go Tigers!
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Orange Beast [6413]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:57 PM
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Our d has been great ###
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Paw Warrior [4692]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
Oct 14, 2024, 11:33 AM
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cmoney,
By what measure has our defense been great ?
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Orange Beast [6413]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 14, 2024, 1:45 PM
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Our starting defense has given up only 14 points or less in every game except for Georgia. What more do you people want?? Our O killed our defense in the Georgia game.
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Rival Killer [3050]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 10:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did? ] |
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You cannot compare at this point due to the new communications. And yes, our backups have played ALLOT! So the overall rankings don’t matter.
Do we have some opportunities for improvement. Yes. But overall outside of UGA torching us we have been solid. My concern is what does it look like against better offenses. I think we may have to outscore some teams.
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Dynasty Maker [3101]
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Now wait a minute ...
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Oct 14, 2024, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did? ] |
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It really doesn't stand to reason that you're not, on some level, implying that firing Wes ought to be on the table. Hiring a different DC, **while** Wes is DC, necessarily entails him being terminated as DC. That implication is flatly unavoidable. You can't fault people for simply noticing that as a necessary implication.
That being said, I hear what you're saying on a different level (and this was probably your bigger emphasis) ... people increasingly have zero category for constructive criticism or measured, substantive disagreement. Instead of merely expressing their dissent from your assessment of Goodwin over and against BV and the possible upside of a change, some will instead get their panties in a "how dare you, coot" wad that shuts down any discussion and shifts the focus away from the merits of the argument to reflexive accusations of reactionary disloyalty. And you are 100% right about that. As far as I can tell, your assessment of Wes and the idea of a change at DC are simply the results of your honest analysis and not some shallow reactionary outburst, and I can respect that even though I'm not persuaded we need a change at DC.
And you're right ... the D hasn't been the same level of over-the-top superb since BV. The way I see it, BV was a once in a blue moon type phenom. Just like every QB can't be Trevor or DW4, and thus we have to evaluate other QBs on a different scale, the same may be the case with DCs other than BV. Our D has been solid and often very good under Wes.
I will also note that in addition to the forementioned tendency to play deep into the roster late in games, we also have to consider how periods of offensive non-production multiplies our opponents' opportunities and time of possession, and tires out our D (starters or otherwise). There was a reason why a 6-0 halftime score vs UGA ballooned into 34 total points, and that reason was the offense not holding up their end of the bargain and putting all the load -both if score and clock time, on the D.
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CU Medallion [18367]
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During a game emotions are at their absolute highest and reason at its
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Oct 14, 2024, 11:15 AM
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absolute lowest, at least for fans. Hard to argue against that. Ergo, posting during a game attracts the most reactionary and unstable of posts by default. If you get jumped on, 'cooted', trashed or otherwise - consider the poor timing and understand that you are likely just as much of the problem as the audience one considers at the time to be so unreasonable in return.
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Dynasty Maker [3101]
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No . . .
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Oct 15, 2024, 3:00 PM
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It's true that the unstable fans are likely to respond precipitously - including during a game - and with unbridled emotion. But it doesn't follow that a post can just be lazily presumed to be that way just b/c it's during a game. If you make a level-headed attempt a discussion during a game, and some joe blow comes along and lazily assumes you're being emotional, rather than responding on the merits, then the Joe Blow is the problem, not the other guy.
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Re: Now wait a minute ...
Oct 14, 2024, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to Now wait a minute ... ] |
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I get where you’re coming from, and I understand how it might look like I’m implying a change at DC, which would inevitably mean replacing Wes. But to clarify, I wasn’t outright advocating for Wes to be fired. I was more thinking along the lines of exploring whether a fresh approach to defense, similar to what worked for the offense with a new OC, could help us get back to an elite level. It’s not so much about firing Wes, but questioning if changes in philosophy or adjustments could spark improvement.
That said, I totally agree with your point that BV was a one-in-a-generation talent, and we can’t expect every DC to replicate his level of dominance. I’m just wondering if there are ways we can push for that high standard again. Also, you’re spot on about how offense impacts the defense. Extended time on the field or lack of support definitely wears the D down, and we’ve seen that play out—like in that UGA game where the offense couldn’t sustain drives and left the defense with an unfair load to carry.
I appreciate the thoughtful response and the recognition that criticism doesn’t always equate to disloyalty. Sometimes, it’s just about wanting to see the team continue to push for greatness. Go Tigers!
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Dynasty Maker [3101]
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Amen to that and Cheers . . .
Oct 15, 2024, 3:05 PM
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and I would hope and assume that as Wes continues on and grows in this role, he'll maybe continue to learn and apply stuff he absorbed from BV. I know you're not eager to have WG's proverbial head on a platter, but in some respect, any coach needs to be retained or not, and if I were at the helm, I can't say I'd have the slightest inclination to promote else to take his place. But I can definitely appreciate that maybe there are some ghosts of the BV era that we need to recapture - if possible.
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Dynasty Maker [3211]
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Playmaker [393]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did? ] |
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Well said. Some posters on here evidently don't have enough common sense to grasp what you just said about 2nd, 3rd, and probably some walkons getting some experience in blowout wins. The defensive numbers are skewed because of this. Cmon pay attention
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Orange Phenom [14530]
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Orange Phenom [14530]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
Oct 14, 2024, 10:39 AM
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My comment was for THOMAS
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Dynasty Maker [3335]
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CU Medallion [20652]
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I disagree. Just posed a question.
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:42 PM
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That's different than calling for a coach to step down. If you disagree, I am fine with that.
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Clemson Icon [25444]
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LOL
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:04 PM
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sure LOL
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Dynasty Maker [3335]
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Re: I disagree. Just posed a question.
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:04 PM
[ in reply to I disagree. Just posed a question. ] |
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Yup I disagree. The timing, the word choice and the follow up comments all point to calling for him to be fired.
It’s pretty clear what you were suggesting. Like Justice Stewart said “you know it when you see it”
Now I’m not saying you don’t have a point that the D is slipping, it has. It’s still WAY better than you give credit for
As good as TJ is he isn’t a game wrecker yet. We need another DE to step up which will let PWoo slide inside. Also need an OLB to step up so we aren’t playing a 4-2-5 so much.
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CU Medallion [20652]
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My God, just stop.***
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:31 PM
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Game Changer [1713]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:42 PM
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Dabo stated when Wes was hired that he was brilliant. Coach Arians, formerly of the TB Buccaneers had similar sentiments. I think Wes is a good DC, and I think he made some good adjustments yesterday too. Not trying to say there isn't room for improvement, there always is, but there are a lot of factors that go into the defensive ranking, including playing 2nd and 3rd string guys for development. In a nutshell, perhaps Wes is what we need and he is playing the long game with Dabo.
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CU Medallion [20652]
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I like this kind of dialogue and I appreciate it.
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:44 PM
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I am simply on the fence. Truthfully, I want every Clemson coach to succeed.
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Ring of Honor [23567]
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Our secondary is suspect. A good QB has and will continue to pick it apart.***
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:51 PM
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Orange Blooded [2195]
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Re: Our secondary is suspect. A good QB has and will continue to pick it apart.***
Oct 14, 2024, 8:45 AM
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Any good qb will pick apart any secondary if they are allowed time to do so. When our d line plays well our secondary has proven they can cover long enough to be a problem. I don't think you can single out one area of the defense without consideration for how the others are doing.
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National Champion [7689]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 7:54 PM
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Absolutely 100%. Goodwin made the jump from analyst to DC. Sure, he spent a season with Bruce Arians. So did many other NFL interns. I have made the argument since the day Goodwin was hired we have been better off with a proven quantity. Goodwin is learning. However, the stats are slowly sliding. Missing is competitive depth, adjustments on the fly, and consistency. He was handed a top 5 defense in year one and barely cracked to top 20 defenses. The defense rank has steadily declined under his tenure.
We have seen better o line play when a known quantity/successful coach was hired in place of a former player with little coaching experience. Adding the best coaches money can buy for us to the mountain top. Hiring buddies, former players, and promoting from within saw us slide to the standard Dabo built. Our win totals steadily decreased as the experiment unfolded. We have empirical evidence that approach didn’t work.
All that said, Dabo has earned the right to do it his way. To a certain extent. If we start going 2-10 every year the program won’t be his for long. I’d love to see the defensive equivalent of Riley hired for defense.
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CU Medallion [18367]
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Which games has our Defense been responsible for the Loss these past
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:03 PM
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three years under Wes? Where we just couldn't stop the other team to keep our Offense in it and give us a chance?
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Hall of Famer [8823]
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Re: Which games has our Defense been responsible for the Loss these past
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:52 PM
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None
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National Champion [7689]
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Re: Which games has our Defense been responsible for the Loss these past
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Oct 14, 2024, 8:53 AM
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Never said they were responsible for a loss. I said they have slidden in rank. Goodwin defense have averaged around 30. BV defenses always top 5. Facts. Stop twisting words.
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CU Medallion [18367]
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Re: Which games has our Defense been responsible for the Loss these past
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Oct 14, 2024, 9:52 AM
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Not twisting words... putting your fretting over statistical rankings into their proper perspective, i.e. - they're meaningless. BV had some of the top Offenses in Clemson history at his back - not so for Wes until just recently, and it's clear to anyone paying even scant attention to Clemson this season that we are in a full throttle development / training mode with the more basic types of packages we are regularly employing and the depth we are utilizing in preparation for a long season.
We were a Top 10 Defense last year in virtually every category except scoring, which was clearly skewed by the scoring our O gave up and some really crappy field position episodes.
You were upset that Dabo hired Wes against 'your' better judgment as you shared, and you're going to continue to moan about it and play the tired 'hire within' or 'friends and family' songs regardless of Wes guiding a Defense that has not cost us one single game over his stretch.
Enjoy.
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Game Changer [1955]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did? ] |
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What was the rank last year. I recall 8 so don’t think that’s consistently slipping. Also, we don’t know what they are trying to scheme for going into a game. Could be they are protecting the weakness (my suspicion is the secondary) with scheme. It got exposed in 2nd half vs UGA but let’s also put some of that on the offense which did ZERO in that game. Also, look at what UGA has done to everyone except KY. Beck put up 459 passing yesterday.
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Game Changer [1955]
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Re: Last year Clemson finished 32th in total defense.
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:34 PM
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Sort that same link by total yds and Clemson is #8. Defense had a lot of short fields and a few pick 6s that went against the scoring metric (I think).
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Wow.
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:39 PM
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Let's throw out every metric in the book to try and support a losing argument. I feel like I am arguing with the Clemson Football media department here.
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Game Changer [1955]
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Re: Wow.
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:52 PM
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You asked for reasonable thoughts and banter which I’m providing. Shifting to name calling suggests I’ve won the argument and you don’t have a retort. I have only offered one metric which is simply different than your choice.
We could also look at turnovers generated which is also quite respectable (1st ly). I think we’ve also been pretty good in TFLs (12th last year per game) though not this year so much (only 18th).
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National Champion [7689]
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Re: Wow.
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Oct 14, 2024, 8:57 AM
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He didn’t resort to name calling. SMH.
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Game Changer [1955]
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Re: Wow.
Oct 14, 2024, 1:37 PM
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The “you’re basically an athletic department shill” and “wow” are both phrases that are intended to be condescending and stifle debate. That said, my primary point (that you are now also demonstrating) is that when someone presents a counter argument and you are losing, you don’t argue facts, you deflect with name calling, doubling down on your same point (32 total defense), or move on to some other argument like defensive end talent that is a multi-faceted issue around NIL, portal, talent assessment, talent development, scheme, etc which is far wider than the DC in question.
Long winded series of follow ups for me to answer fully that I think Wes is a really good DC and still improving into hopefully one of the best. I was also hoping to improve the debating skills on here by keeping us arguing points/counterpoints, but clearly unsuccessfully.
Go Tigers!
and see you on the next thread
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Name-calling? Huh?***
Oct 14, 2024, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wow. ] |
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Thank you for the TD, better to get you guys out in the open.***
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:34 PM
[ in reply to Wow. ] |
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Clemsongrad2011 has given 200 TU and 200 TD in their short little time here. Who's this person's scok is the only question.
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Associate AD [1033]
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Re: Thank you for the TD, better to get you guys out in the open.***
Oct 14, 2024, 11:38 AM
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1) not an scok… I’m very much my own person
2) I thought you wanted discourse about football, why are you bring up TNet stats…
Sad
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Sad, yeah, you making a throw-away account to TD people.
Oct 14, 2024, 11:47 AM
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All that because you can't have an intelligent, adult discussion.
Many people on this thread have different points of view, not TD everyone they disagree with. Let them be a good example for you.
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Dynasty Maker [3335]
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Re: Sad, yeah, you are.***
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Oct 14, 2024, 11:50 AM
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Is this an example of infighting or natural discourse? I can't tell
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Good example of a troll/scok.***
Oct 14, 2024, 11:54 AM
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Associate AD [1033]
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Re: Good example of a troll/scok.***
Oct 14, 2024, 1:51 PM
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Here are the very reasonable questions I asked elsewhere in this thread… if you’re interested in good faith natural discourse we can discuss, if you want to resort to calling me a scok that’s sad, but I’m going to stop wasting my time trying to have a discussion with you
Questions are -
1) How would you make these ‘Adjustments’ if Goodwin is still our DC
2) Who would you hire that’s more proven, and recruiting wise or schematically what would they need to do differently?
3) Have you considered the concept that short term growing pains lead to long term success? Hiring someone internally maintains culture and loyalty… staff continuity is one of the primary reasons we made 6 playoffs in a row
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Commissioner [1208]
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Re: Last year Clemson finished 32th in total defense.
Oct 13, 2024, 9:55 PM
[ in reply to Last year Clemson finished 32th in total defense. ] |
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Clemson didn't finish 32nd in total defense last year. They finished 8th, as the other poster said. Total defense is the total ypg. You are referring to scoring defense, in which they finished 32nd. Total defense and scoring defense are not the same statistic. The other poster was correct.
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National Champion [7689]
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Re: Last year Clemson finished 32th in total defense.
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Oct 14, 2024, 9:00 AM
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You are wrong. I have a psychology degree which is the people who compile these stats. Research and data are our speciality. Team defense is a metric which uses EVERY defensive metric to measure a teams defense. Clemson ranks 32 in this metric. Yes, yardage was 8th, total team defense 32.
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Commissioner [1208]
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Re: Last year Clemson finished 32th in total defense.
Oct 14, 2024, 11:19 AM
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No, total defense is yards per game. Scoring defense is a separate statistic, which is not calculated in total defense.
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National Champion [7689]
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Re: Last year Clemson finished 32th in total defense.
Oct 14, 2024, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to Last year Clemson finished 32th in total defense. ] |
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I was about to post that. You beat me to it. I know our team ranks by year pretty well. 32 in 2023. Hey, if we throw out loses we’re undefeated! 🤣
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CU Medallion [20652]
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Gridiron Giant [15398]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:03 PM
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If there is a DC that can adjust better than no points and 38 total yards in the 2nd half like Saturday. Also, there were several backups playing defense late and the previous experience showed.
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Game Changer [1637]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:11 PM
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Whi knows what kind of team we have? UGa embarrassed us and we've been doing it to everyone ever since. As for Goodwin, do keep in mind we had 2 interceptions and at one point in the 3rd quarter we had them at -6 yards rushing....
We don't have firebreathing lbs but seems we are doing pretty good especially given that 2nds and 3rds are in.
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CU Medallion [20652]
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No they haven't.
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:29 PM
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They embarrassed us - ranking and turnout more than anyone. Thanks for playing, though.
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Tiger Spirit [9850]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:28 PM
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This seems like something from a petulant child. Someone who has lost the ability to think critically buts wants their way so they can feel in control. The bad think is if they get their way and it goes bad (as we knew it would), they claim no responsibility
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National Champion [7334]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:38 PM
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Does not matter what Tneters think about our DC. The only person that matters is Dabo. If he wants a new DC then I am all for the change. But, if he thinks Wes is a good/great/outstanding DC then he has my support. Just win. All the chatter goes away.
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National Champion [7689]
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
Oct 14, 2024, 9:03 AM
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That’s not true. Dabo has to sender to the AD and boosters. People that have never been in that room don’t understand the pressure donors place on programs. Ask Ken Hatfield and Tommy Bowden how boosters ran them out of town.
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Rival Killer [2717]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Absolutely.
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:31 PM
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Get Venables back after Okie cuts ties with him.
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Standout [345]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Absolutely.
Oct 13, 2024, 9:21 PM
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Do to Goodwin with Venables what Stoops did to Venables with his brother? Having Venables again would be great, but I can't see it happening, even if BV were available.
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Team Captain [473]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: Absolutely.
Oct 13, 2024, 10:05 PM
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"Having Venables would be great"?...com' on man...move on...34 pts given up by Texas, probably one of the top 3 teams this year. Lets see how his D looks like after the SC game Saturday.
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Standout [345]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Absolutely.
Oct 14, 2024, 8:07 AM
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I take it you were never a Venables fan.
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Associate AD [1033]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 8:58 PM
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1) How would you make these ‘Adjustments’ if Goodwin is still our DC
2) Who would you hire that’s more proven, and recruiting wise or schematically what would they need to do differently?
3) Have you considered the concept that short term growing pains lead to long term success? Hiring someone internally maintains culture and loyalty… staff continuity is one of the primary reasons we made 6 playoffs in a row
You talk about wanting to be constructive, but this conversation and your ‘Fire Everyone’ agenda is as far from constructive as possible
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Team Captain [473]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
Oct 13, 2024, 9:16 PM
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Hmmm..."a proven defensive coordinator"...who comes to your mind... maybe it's the one who's defense was giving up over 30 points in yesterday's "Shootout", sorry, "Rivalry" game. May I suggest you forward this "point of discussion/what if" to Paul F-bomb...sounds like it's right up his anti Clemson/Dabo alley!
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CU Medallion [20652]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 13663
Joined: 1995
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Associate AD [1033]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Sorry to "trigger" someone's scok.
Oct 13, 2024, 10:03 PM
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You’re not what?
Do you not want to dialogue here?
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All-Pro [718]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Sorry to "trigger" someone's scok.
Oct 14, 2024, 11:01 AM
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Only if the other person agrees with him. Theres no use trying to convince him otherwise, he's taken the change my mind (here's a hint, nothing will) stance. Its a strawman argument only made to stir the pot.
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Legend [6907]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:02 PM
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Numbers don’t tell the full story. Our backups have given up some long drives and a few TDs. We missed Woods since our DE depth is so thin.
But we’ve only surrendered 14, 13, and 14 points in 3 straight games. UVA’s offense is pretty bad, so I expect another defensive performance that we’ve seen the last 3 weeks.
We still have a lot of young pieces out there. Woods, Parker, Terrell, Barnes, and Shelton are only sophomores. Covil and Lukus are juniors, but both haven’t played much due to injuries.
We have some promising freshmen too. Green and Burley redshirted last year. They’ll both be really good one day. Sammy, Hampton, and Ricardo have flashed as true freshmen.
We have a lot of really good freshmen and sophomores on defense right now. The future is really bright on that side of the ball. I trust Wes and the defensive coaches.
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TigerNet Champion [117645]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2003
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:18 PM
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Jones looked good in Mop Up duty, first time I got a good look at him. He has all of the tools to be a great one.
Also, noticeable drop-off when Woodaz and or carter are out, we might as well start calling Barnes a linebacker we play so much Nickle. He had 66 snaps against FSU, no official count for Wake yet, but he was in a bunch.
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Legend [6907]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
Oct 14, 2024, 10:52 AM
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Woodaz and Sammy will start next year. I’m comfortable with those two. I hope Jamal Anderson comes back because I still think he can be great one day.
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CU Medallion [20652]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 13663
Joined: 1995
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Thanks for the post.
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did? ] |
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This is the kind of discourse that a lot of posters on Tnet are incapable of, which was my point in the original post.
I don't see quality depth at DE, and in two years, we might have that issue at DT. Our secondary has one promising player.
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Legend [6907]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Thanks for the post.
Oct 14, 2024, 10:53 AM
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I think Eason and Rumph might be the best DL coaching duo in the country. I think we are in good hands with them.
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Orange Blooded [2575]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:22 PM
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Our defense is fine.
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Commissioner [1216]
TigerPulse: 72%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:22 PM
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Wes is a great DC...let's fire you 1st and see if things work out...with Woods and Capehart well we are getting awfully close to top notch!
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CU Medallion [20652]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 13663
Joined: 1995
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72% pulse.
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:42 PM
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Obviously you should be fired.
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CU Medallion [20673]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: 72% pulse.
Oct 14, 2024, 10:35 AM
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Your pulse would be that low if you take off the 100 people you are ignoring!!!!
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National Champion [7815]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 15721
Joined: 2001
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Youre using metrics that are no longer relevant
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:45 PM
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“The Tigers are only joined by Texas, Ohio State, Penn State and Ole Miss with Top 20 ratings on both offense and defense with ESPN’s FPI and SP+ each.”
Our D is 20th by SP+ and 11th by FPI. These are the types of metrics tools used by the committee not stats that are meaningless because they don’t take into account game control, substitutions in blowouts etc. and those #s have been getting better.
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Hall of Famer [8823]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:48 PM
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Did you call for Riley to be fired last year when Wes was saving his a*s all season?
Wes is going nowhere. You guys can keep crying
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Game Changer [1988]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
Oct 13, 2024, 9:49 PM
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Has Wes not proven himself?
I think he has proven himself more than Riley.
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Hall of Famer [8823]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:53 PM
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You would be correct in that assessment
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Hall of Famer [8823]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:51 PM
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This guy has the nerve to say "UGA scored 30 points and that must be addressed" but didn't say a word about the 3 points the offense put up 🤣
Our offense isn't fixed until we put numbers on a team worth a da*n
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TigerNet Legend [144991]
TigerPulse: 100%
67
Posts: 34539
Joined: 2010
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TU for your first sentence.***
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:54 PM
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National Champion [7476]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 10381
Joined: 2007
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We played bad teams the past 3 years and the play calling
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did? ] |
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All looked the same the past 3 years . The UGA game looked exactly the same which cued the here we go again talk. But since then the play calling changed. They’ve ditched the bubble screen stuff and are looking like a normal offense. So they’re changing it up for sure. It’s working against bad teams your right but like I said we played bad teams last year and looked really inept.
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Paw Warrior [5059]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 9:54 PM
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We have a good DC.
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National Champion [7303]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I don't understand the question. Are you gambling, "The Grass is Greener"?
2
Oct 13, 2024, 9:58 PM
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Our Defense is still the same, "Bend Don't Break" Defense it has ever been since Venables took over. Sure it gets me a bit aggravated when we give up big plays.But right now, this very moment, Wes is doing just fine. Is our defense gonna cost us at some point? Sure. But so is a fumble or interception. It's a weird way you are seeing the games.
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National Champion [7476]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 10381
Joined: 2007
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We get absolutely no pressure up front. Ive noticed
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Oct 13, 2024, 10:05 PM
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It all year. When you’ve got Peter Woods who’s a patented interior lineman having to play defensive end then you’ve got personnel gaps.
We will need that offense to stay healthy and continue to play dominant bc when we play good offenses they’re gonna score. So we gotta out score them to win. Unless someone decides to step up and figure a way to get off their blocks.
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Orange Beast [6413]
TigerPulse: 95%
40
Posts: 13102
Joined: 2015
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Re: We get absolutely no pressure up front. Ive noticed
Oct 13, 2024, 10:35 PM
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We certainly don't have the same talent across the board as some of the BV years. Our D is doing just fine tho imo. Idk what DC dude thinks we could get that would do better then what Wes is doing.
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National Champion [7476]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 10381
Joined: 2007
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i agree, I think Wes is good. Just don't have that athletic guy that can get in
Oct 14, 2024, 8:37 AM
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backfield.. yet. He may be on the team but just needs to break out. Vic Beasley kinda came out of nowhere too while at Clemson...so you never know.
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TigerNet Legend [144991]
TigerPulse: 100%
67
Posts: 34539
Joined: 2010
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No pressure up front is also a result of inexperience in the secondary...
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Oct 14, 2024, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to We get absolutely no pressure up front. Ive noticed ] |
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As the secondary gets better/more experienced, you would hope/expect to see more pressure.
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CU Medallion [20652]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 13663
Joined: 1995
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I don' t know man. QBs on some of these weak teams we play, have all kinds of..
Oct 14, 2024, 11:43 AM
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...time. You have to agree we have Woods playing out of position because of a thin/less talented DE group[ than in the past. Lots of posters have been mentioning the DE issue for a long time, and many largely wrote off the concern.
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TigerNet Legend [144991]
TigerPulse: 100%
67
Posts: 34539
Joined: 2010
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What is the objective of our D line?
Oct 14, 2024, 2:10 PM
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Are they shooting gaps, or are they making contact in their gaps, creating separation, then reading the play and reacting to flow?
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Fan [30]
TigerPulse: 100%
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CU Medallion [18679]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 11446
Joined: 2018
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 10:43 PM
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Let’s not forget the offense only scored 3 pts against GA so I don’t think that is much of an example to consider. We got beat by a better team that night and we are improving on both sides of the ball. And, if you left the defensive starters in the whole time over those blowouts and not given up so many garbage yards and points, the stats would look much different.
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CU Medallion [18679]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 11446
Joined: 2018
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 10:45 PM
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The reality is we probably won’t fully know what we really have until we hit post season.
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Paw Warrior [4883]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 11:03 PM
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I really don’t think Wes is the problem. Sure he isn’t Brent… But he’s doing a pretty good job
We better start recruiting better numbers on that side of the ball. Quality depth going forward is a concern ATM…. Hopefully that gets fixed
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CU Medallion [18679]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 11446
Joined: 2018
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 13, 2024, 11:07 PM
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I hate we just lost those 2 DL commits…
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Clemson Sports Icon [56546]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 44327
Joined: 2003
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Our problem has been coverage in the secondary..one on one...we have had a
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Oct 14, 2024, 8:58 AM
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few busts..AND WE HAVE ONE OF THE BEST db COACHES IN THE COUNTRY..WE MADE ADJUSTMENTS(MAYBE JUST ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENTS..BUT ADJUSTMENTS NO LESS IN THE 2ND HALF AND HELD DUKE to what...36 total yards...The DC is fine..We have a young secondary...so, hopefully they get better and better each game.
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All-American [593]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Our problem has been coverage in the secondary..one on one...we have had a
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Oct 14, 2024, 9:06 AM
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Statistics rule my life.
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TigerNet Legend [144991]
TigerPulse: 100%
67
Posts: 34539
Joined: 2010
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Solid Orange [1301]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 14, 2024, 9:59 AM
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I agree a little bit. I did not thing our D would be the softspot for the team this year. I think the Wake game showed they can adjust. Typing off the cuff here, but I thought I heard Dabo say they limited Wake to 45 yards ruching in the 2nd half. That is the kind of performance we should see all game. The big weakness I see is giving up deep pass plays. The yound qb for FSU would have torn us a new ######## if FSU's recievers could actually catch the ball. He was driopping them right intoo their wide open hands and they just dropped it. A team with good recivers and a matching qb would hurt us badly if that keeps up.
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CU Medallion [20652]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 13663
Joined: 1995
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Yep. FSU should have had a lot more passing yards. Their young QB had all day.***
Oct 14, 2024, 11:44 AM
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Game Changer [1896]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Could a proven DC boost our defense like a good OC did?
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Oct 14, 2024, 12:01 PM
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If I recall, last year you were calling for Cade and Riley's heads....
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1st Rounder [653]
TigerPulse: 95%
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I have been and to a degree still critical of wes
Oct 14, 2024, 2:08 PM
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He makes good adjustments but we play base defense way too much. It took him 2 quarters at wake forest to figure out he needed to blitz. It would have took Brent 3 plays . That being said the defense kept us in a lot of games last year and has played pretty well this year. From a who’s a better DC maybe the guy from Texas but would he come for a lateral move ? Maybe aranda if Baylor fires him
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Game Day Hero [4152]
TigerPulse: 100%
36
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While coach V was very good - people forget the weaknesses.
Oct 15, 2024, 8:36 PM
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Under V - Our D Line was some good, some not great. The exotic blitzes and d ends were very good. But our pass defense was generally poor to bad. If the blitz did not get there - coach Venibles defense gave up many chunk plays. When we played a strong QB team like LSU - we were picked apart and gave up lots of big plays. Now, we are not as flashy on the line and d-end - but have reduced our chunk plays. Be careful what you wish for. I am NOT saying Brent V was not excellent, but - his defenses also had flaws. Today’s passing games have evolved and when playing strong teams - passing is something you have to stop. I like where our defense is. Not the best we have ever had, but solid.
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All-Time Great [97394]
TigerPulse: 100%
63
Posts: 97114
Joined: 2009
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1st, Streeter wasn't our problem, DJ ukelle was our problem.
Oct 16, 2024, 7:37 AM
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Cade was our salvation, not the OC, QB coach or the scheme.
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Replies: 101
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