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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 10:29 AM
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I feel like I post this every year about this time, but it remains true. The task for the selection committee should never be about selecting the "best" four teams. If that were the goal of college football, we would separate the top 20 teams in the recruiting rankings and only play each other for the regular season.
The NCAA has over 100 teams who each play 12 games. It is impossible to identify the "best" teams, without speculation and assumption, using that small of a sample size.
Instead the committee should be tasked with "selecting the top 4 teams who have proven themselves to be deserving of selection based on the criteria defined".
Any process which does not have a definitive and repeatable set of criteria that can be applied is inherently flawed. Interpretation of how to apply the criteria can be subjective, but simply not applying the criteria due to opinion should result in removal from the committee.
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CU Guru [1135]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 10:43 AM
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agreed... it should be "the best 4 teams that DESERVE to be in". period. and, sorry.. but, a 2 loss, non-conference champ doesn't deserve to be there, imho.
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All-In [38429]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 10:48 AM
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Think the committee was really obvious in it's decision ... you're a 2 loss team ? Oh that's wonderful ... please go sit with the others . No not there sugar ... those 4 seats belong to winners .
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 10:57 AM
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Except they put UGA at #5 and OHST at 6. Not important for the playoff, but still sets a bad precedent.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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that was the committee's way of saying
Dec 3, 2018, 11:08 AM
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if you hadn't lost to lsu, you'd be 4.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: that was the committee's way of saying
Dec 3, 2018, 12:26 PM
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Exactly...again based on what criteria?
UGA no conference championship, SOS #6 Pittsburgh no conference championship, SOS #3 OHST conference championship, SOS #41 OU conference championship, SOS #31
Now if we take out the losses with Strength of Record OHST finishes above UGA?
Until their are clear criteria that are followed there will continue to be a bias due to perceived strength and eventually it will result in undeserving teams.
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CU Medallion [52530]
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All-TigerNet [11067]
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that IS the current criteria for the "Best" 4 teams***
Dec 3, 2018, 10:47 AM
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: that IS the current criteria for the "Best" 4 teams***
Dec 3, 2018, 11:15 AM
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There are criteria for tie-breaking but no explicit criteria for selection.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 10:55 AM
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Problem with that is the committee has different parameters with which to pick the top 4 teams. Also, the committee rotates members in, and out every couple of years so different opinions occur.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 11:08 AM
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That is exactly the problem now because the language is weak. A few statements from the website:
"Establish a committee that will be instructed to place an emphasis on winning conference championships, strength of schedule and head-to-head competition when comparing teams with similar records and pedigree (treat final determination like a tie-breaker; apply specific guidelines)."
They should not put an emphasis on they should be bound by the criteria.
"As we expand from two teams to four teams, we want to establish a human selection committee that: (1) will be provided a clear set of guidelines; (2) will be expected to take the facts of each case and specifically apply the guidelines; and (3) will be led by a Chairperson who will be expected to explain publicly the committee's decisions."
#1 is in conflict with the previous statement
"When circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable, then the following criteria must be considered:"
This statement shows that the criteria are not used to select the teams but only used as a tie-breaker when comparable. A "clear set of guidelines" has not been provided for how to determine if teams are comparable and therefore it is flawed.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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I have a solution ....
Dec 3, 2018, 10:58 AM
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Sixteen Team playoff, the "Sweet 16" of College Football
Winner of each conference automatically goes (10) + 6 wildcards
Wildcards are those 6 highest ranked teams NOT a Conference Winner
Room for these extra playoff games made by dropping the "cupcakes" ... say a 10 game regular season but each game is always against a really good opponent. For example in Clemson's case, they still would play 8 teams from from the ACC, always play USCAR and say one other game outside of Conference (SEC, B10,B12,P12,AAC ..)
Lost revenue you say ? Well, I say this proposal will allow out Student-Athletes to study more and also, if they make the payoffs, potentially FOUR extra games, for a 14 game season ... what they play now ...
Hey ! Just checked my math ... only have to lose ONE cupcake ! 11 games regular season ! That's enough
Remember, you heard it first on TigerNet !
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Orange Blooded [3290]
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Re: I have a solution ....
Dec 3, 2018, 11:15 AM
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I have been saying this. I would suggest possibly realigning the divisions every 3 or so years and allow seeding in the 9-16 teams to be flexible 1 to 2 spots to avoid remattches in the 1st round at least. Play 1st round at top 8 teams home field, 2nd round at Conf Championship sites by bid and final 2 rounds as now played!
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CU Medallion [58447]
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Uhhhhhh . . .
Dec 3, 2018, 11:16 AM
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Agreed
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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I think with 13 “football people” on the committee
Dec 3, 2018, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Uhhhhhh . . . ] |
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from every corner of the country, it ain’t that hard to pick the four best. IMO, they haven’t messed up yet in 5 years.
I think it would be boring as heck to add too many rules saying what they HAVE to do.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Agree. There doesn't seem to be an actual problem with
Dec 3, 2018, 12:13 PM
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the playoff committee. You can certainly argue that the playoff structure itself is flawed, that releasing weekly rankings is dumb and lends itself to more controversy, and it always bugs me when the committee itself uses the phrase "four BEST teams" because that just adds to public confusion, but so far, at least in my opinion, the committee is 20/20 selecting CFP participants.
TLDR: the committee doesn't need to be fixed because it isn't broken.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Despite all of the confusion regarding the word "best"
Dec 3, 2018, 11:06 AM
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and the many, many interpretations of what that should mean, IMO the committee is 20 for 20 selecting CFP participants. I think they have ultimately gotten it right every year.
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All-In [40938]
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How many times did the top 4 finish in that order?
Dec 3, 2018, 11:08 AM
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There is a reason we play the games
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: How many times did the top 4 finish in that order?
Dec 3, 2018, 11:14 AM
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Except we don't and all of the non-expansion people are worried about devaluing the regular season. Selecting the "Best" four teams does just that. If I want the "best" I take who is playing the best football in November regardless of who they lost to in week 1-8.
If we wanted to play the games we would include all conference champions. Until we see how the B1G matches up with the SEC it is all speculation to say that UGA looks better.
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Legend [16207]
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The UGAy card was dumb because...
Dec 3, 2018, 11:09 AM
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...they just proved that they cannot beat Bama with the backup QB. Why would you invite UGAy?
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I think UGA actually proved they CAN beat Bama
Dec 3, 2018, 11:29 AM
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But they didn't.. and that has to mean something.
I don't like the argument that says "Team X already proved they can't beat Team Y." Did UGA prove last year in the regular season that they couldn't beat Auburn? Or did they prove in the SECCG that Auburn couldn't beat them? What about OU and Texas this year? Teams win rematches and avenge losses all of the time. Cleveland probably should've beaten Golden State in Game 1 of the NBA finals last year. And if they had won game 1 they probably still would've lost that series in 5. What would winning game 1 have proven? That Cleveland was better? Of course not! It just proves they won 1 game.
Now i do support the argument that stats that "Team X already got their chance at Team Y and lost." There are only 12-13 regular season games in college football. Just the opportunity to play somebody is a very valuable resource. UGA got their chance to play Alabama and lost. Sure they might beat them if they played again in the CFP, but why not give that opportunity to another team that hasn't already had it? It's not fair to give Georgia two cracks at Alabama when a similar caliber team in Oklahoma hasn't had one yet.
And I do think that it's important that the two teams in question here, UGA and OU, were of a similar caliber. I think if UGA had beaten LSU earlier, gone into the SECCG 12-0 ranked #2 in the country, and had really dominated all year and looked like the 2nd best team then maybe you could make an argument for them to get into the playoff after losing a close. But i think the argument would have to center around UGA being a tier above OU - and this year they clearly were not. Those teams are on the same tier of a very similar caliber and thus OU 100% deserves the shot that UGA already got and failed to take advantage of.
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Scout Team [152]
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Re: The UGAy card was dumb because...
Dec 3, 2018, 11:33 AM
[ in reply to The UGAy card was dumb because... ] |
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Totally agree. UGA has provedn they cannot beat Alabama. For OU and OSU there is still the possibility they can.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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No. They proved they didn't beat Alabama not that they
Dec 3, 2018, 11:36 AM
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can't.
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All-In [30841]
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Don't let the sec Homers get to you. Uga hasn't
Dec 3, 2018, 11:19 AM
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Showed me anything to suggest they are head and shoulders better tHan OU or OSU.
Any 1 of these 7 teams could be the others.
Any 1 who claims different doesnt know sports.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 11:29 AM
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I just wish that they would add ONE simple rule.
If you do NOT win your conference championship, then get on the ROY bus and leave us alone.
ND does NOT deserve to be in the CFP because of this failure to add that rule. Make ND fish or cut bait.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Why?
Dec 3, 2018, 11:35 AM
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All it really is is a 13th game a fairly arbitrary title. Would you be happier if somebody forced ND to play a 13th game against an FCS schools and then named them the "champions" of the "Independent conference?"
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All-In [30841]
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Yes, I would be happier.***
Dec 3, 2018, 12:01 PM
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Recruit [98]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage ] |
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My only issue with that is what if:
1) Georgia beats Bama 2) Pitt beats Clemson 3) Texas beats Oklahoma 4) Northwestern beat Ohio St. 5) Utah beats Washington 6) Memphis beats UCF
So now you pick 4 conference champions...
1) Georgia 2) Texas 3) Utah 4) Northwestern
???
Doesn't really seem like that great of a playoff... doesn't really seem right.
Anything can happen in any given week of college football.
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All-In [30841]
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I would be perfectly fine with those 4 conference
Dec 3, 2018, 12:03 PM
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Champs.
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Recruit [98]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage ] |
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Plus, in the case of this year, you would basically be saying Ohio St. in, Notre Dame out.
I don't know who is "better" on the field of play, based on results on the field, Notre Dame has looked better week in and week out. Ohio St. has had moments of glory, and Notre Dame has sucked.
Overall this was the right four.
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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I agree with trying to get the 4 best teams. It makes
Dec 3, 2018, 11:42 AM
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for much better games but the resume has to enter into picking the 4 best. UGA looked great against Bama but you can’t neglect their beat down by LSU.
I agree Bama should have made it last year. Why wouldn’t we want the four best as long as you don’t neglect resume.
If you make a rule about having to win a conference championship, you could get stuck with a lot of crappy matchups and blowout wins.
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Hall of Famer [22127]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 11:58 AM
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There is truly no way we could determine the "best" when there is no common basis. Opinion becomes a major element in determining who is the best. For example, Alabama is undefeated and ranked Number One. Clemson is undefeated and ranked Number Two. The difference is based primarily on opinions and one of the major ones is "the $EC is so strong, the $EC teams have a tougher schedule". How can this be actually determined when every one does not play the same schedules? Perception rears it's ugly head in every aspect of the game and I would suggest the committee members are not immune to this fact. This is not a slam on the committee, it is an element that factors in their final decision. I believe the committee, as a whole, does a good job in attempting to adhere to the guide lines.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Stop with the "Best" 4 teams garbage
Dec 3, 2018, 12:14 PM
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I agree that it is almost impossible to avoid bias, but that is why criteria is so important. The goal of the playoff is to crown a champion for the entire college football season. That means the goal of the committee is to select the 4 teams, based on the season until this point, who have proven themselves deserving of an opportunity.
Going undefeated against a strong schedule is a strong indicator you are deserving. Winning a conference championship is a strong indicator.
Losing a close game to a team that meets the above criteria is only an indicator that you are less deserving than the team you lost to. Nothing more.
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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You have to appreciate how this started.
Dec 3, 2018, 12:13 PM
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The BCS computer was thought to be the bad guy when in fact it was ESPiN hyping favorite teams. Now ESPiN failed to get two SEC teams in the playoff. It was a freak accident of fate that ND went undefeated and if not for that UGA would have been the 3rd seed and we'd be playing them.
If UGA had won the game we'd have the same scenario we had last season. The BCS computer wasn't to fault it was ESPiN begging for the four best to play. They spend every moment between the end of the last PO game and the exact time the POC releases the pre-playoff poll making sure everyone knows that the SEC is the best and deserves two teams.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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