Replies: 13
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CU Guru [1508]
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Trying to see the long view ...question for the economists here. In looking
Apr 5, 2025, 8:07 AM
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at real wage growth over the last 70 years, real wages moved up with productivity in the post-war era until the 1970s/80s. Then productivity leapt upward and wages went on a very modest growth track as manufacturing left, efficiencies in domestic production grew, and the economy shifted to be more service base. Manufacturing dropped from 20% of the economy to 8%. The higher wage earners have seen their paychecks increase, where the lower earners have seen theirs essentially flatline.
SO - if the goal is to bring back manufacturing, what type of manufacturing do we want? I go into plants all the time - Bosch, BMW, Volvo, all sorts of auto suppliers, defense suppliers, etc. These places are great - big, beautiful buildings - with technicians who make good $. My Clemson roommate is in HR at a plant, and shares starting wages for entry level workers. They make more than A LOT of Clemson grads, the company pays for tech school, and they set the workers up for financial success especially when you consider no school loans. The problem I see in my small sample size is that there just aren't many people who run those factories. Maybe at places like Ryobi, I see lots of people in cubes reconditioning returned hand tools, but I'm not sure building/refurbishing factories to make, say, stainless steel castings will move the needle much.
It feels like the system we have now is American exceptionalism where the most educated are making more, and we're exporting the crappy jobs like stitching Nike emblems on Pegasus shoes. The middle class has been gutted as a function of technology and competition, and those folks either switch to new fields or they get left behind in the old mill towns. I thought exceptionalism is what we wanted, otherwise we're just subsidizing mediocrity.
SO - the question is: if Trump's plan works, what manufacturing gets brought back here? If we bring back ALL of the plants that went overseas in the 70s/80s, do those plants have 1/4 of the workers that they had 50 years ago due to efficiency gains?
I don't see where the workers come from to fill these new factories if unemployment is low. Gov't welfare programs would need to be adjusted to push people to work more. This would be part of an overall comprehensive plan that I can't see just yet.
Please someone who is on board with the push to MAWA, lmk how this should work. Thanks.
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TigerNet Champion [121009]
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Re: Trying to see the long view ...question for the economists here. In looking
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Apr 5, 2025, 9:12 AM
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Manufacturing is not coming back here, at least not in any meaningful sense. People do not want these jobs any more than they do the days of climbing into a coal mine and dying at age 38. Automation took most of the jobs, and that will not change.
My advice is to become an electrician if you do not have a college degree, there will be plenty of work.
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Offensive Star [327]
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Re: Trying to see the long view ...question for the economists here. In looking
Apr 5, 2025, 1:22 PM
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Lots of trades pay better than those degree jobs. I had a discussion with an engineer at Boeing, he was a floor mechanic and was complaining he made less as an engineer. I explained a degree never promised more money, just a less physical demanding job.
A&P mechanics make $80k plus, many jobs work 1 week on 1 week off, some are 2 and 2.
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Offensive Star [327]
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Re: Trying to see the long view ...question for the economists here. In looking
Apr 5, 2025, 1:27 PM
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Work at a hospital based aircraft and you basically make your own schedule, work only the amount of hours needed to take care of the ship. Heck, I did it after I retired, hospital ship, worked an average of 2 hours a day and got paid for 40. Retiring at 55 was just too young, too many hours in a week to play golf or be on the lake. Fully retired at 63.
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Offensive Star [327]
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Paw Master [17140]
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You hit the nail on the head. Cut welfare. Unemployment numbers
Apr 5, 2025, 10:37 AM
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only count people looking for work. There are 10's of millions of people doing nothing.
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Offensive Star [327]
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Re: You hit the nail on the head. Cut welfare. Unemployment numbers
Apr 5, 2025, 1:22 PM
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Yeah, they are mostly retired like me. I do plenty so i resent that statement, someone has to play golf and jets the lakes.
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CU Guru [1508]
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If the goal is for the US to be treated fairly AND to get our debt squared away,
Apr 5, 2025, 1:33 PM
[ in reply to You hit the nail on the head. Cut welfare. Unemployment numbers ] |
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then SS, Medicaid, Medicare, along with welfare, will need to be cut. We cannot cut taxes as proposed, although I personally think this tariff hubbub is what the revenue boosting action is about (although it will generate only half of the $ that the proposed tax cuts will remove).
I wish the president was able to come out with a clear plan with multiple fronts. Right now, they are still acting like middle schoolers, although their math is stuck roughly in the 4th grade.
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Game Changer [1921]
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The goal is not bringing back American jobs.
Apr 5, 2025, 10:53 AM
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The goal is control. The tariffs Trump implemented make no sense because it’s not an economic policy, it’s a political policy. Now Trump will have businesses and industries coming to him and pledging support of him and his agenda, and give him concessions in return for lowering the tariffs or giving them a carve out. All of this is in service of grabbing more power.
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Ring of Honor [23715]
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Re: Trying to see the long view ...question for the economists here. In looking
Apr 5, 2025, 11:01 AM
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It's an interesting take, but it overlooks a few things. The manufacturing jobs left in the ’70s and ’80s aren’t returning in the same form due to factory automation. Also, tariffs will cause inflation that can hurt more than help without a larger strategy, which I don't feel confident this administration has. I mean, shoot, they calculated "tariffs against the USA" like a fifth grader.
Besides, with unemployment already at 4%, where exactly do we find the workers to fill these new factories?
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CU Medallion [18070]
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Hall of Famer [8127]
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I say we cut all those free loading grandpas off social security***
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Apr 5, 2025, 12:49 PM
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Ring of Honor [23715]
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CU Guru [1508]
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No doubt. The makeup of the economy, workforce, and education has changed, and
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Apr 5, 2025, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Trying to see the long view ...question for the economists here. In looking ] |
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the administration is trying to eliminate the last 40 years of world trade that we essentially created. Maybe there some way this works if unemployment is 12%, workers are willing to work for much less, Labor in southeast asia gets expensive, and the government gets housing supply back to where it needs to be to lower prices.
Good luck, I guess.
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Replies: 13
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