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Oculus Spirit [43176]
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110%er [3911]
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Re: Stephen Miller on the gang member that was legally deported that so many of
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Apr 15, 2025, 5:45 AM
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It’s wild that people on here complainin more about an el Salvadoran citizen with gang ties than Laken Riley and other women that were killed by illegal aliens that came through the border under Biden’s open border.
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Ring of Honor [23955]
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A federal judge granted him asylum and the adminstration admitted it was a...
Apr 15, 2025, 2:08 PM
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..."clinical error" - their words not mine. Law is clear.
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Paw Master [17333]
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Show me his granted asylum***
Apr 15, 2025, 9:14 PM
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Campus Hero [13621]
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By turning tables on reporters you mean lying his a$$ off?
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Apr 15, 2025, 8:47 AM
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9-0 court justices confirmed under the Alien Enemies Act that any deportee has the right to challenge the order in court. And yesterday the idiots in charge are yucking it up with El Salvador pres about deporting citizens. Why is this something you’re happy about?
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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TigerNet Champion [121445]
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Re: By turning tables on reporters you mean lying his a$$ off?
Apr 15, 2025, 10:56 AM
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This is where I have an issue with, and in the the rare moments you do extend an olive branch, I know that it is likely insincere. When you point a thread like this, is a badge that you can not remove.
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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I'm not like some people on here.
Apr 15, 2025, 11:21 AM
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I don't have a "side" and my opinions are not contingent upon supprting that side. I am biased, of course, just like everybody else, but I believe what I believe. I am open to hear anybody's opinion, as long as they are sincere (not trolling) and respectful. It seems that most have a list of fellow joungers with a line drawn down the middle, with "good" on one side, and "bad" on the other, and every response starts from there. I try really haed not to be like that.
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TigerNet Champion [121445]
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Re: I'm not like some people on here.
Apr 15, 2025, 2:33 PM
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OK, keep on pointing the nazi posts
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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I don't. You just can't tolerate anybody who disagrees with you, and
Apr 15, 2025, 5:14 PM
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consider them Nazis or other extreme derogatory things. Just relax.
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Ring of Honor [23955]
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110%er [3658]
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Yeah, and he totally lied by omission on SCOTUS ruling
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Apr 15, 2025, 9:08 AM
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SCOTUS opinion sent the order back to the district judge over semantics and the judges choice of the word “effectuate”.
The SCOTUS ruling declared that her order “properly requires the Government to ‘facilitate’ Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador.”
So contrary to what Miller claims, SCOTUS agreed with the intent of the judge and sent it back for a rewrite.
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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Let's talk "due process".
Apr 15, 2025, 9:24 AM
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What about the due process this guy ignored when he entered this country illegally? He said "to hell with due process". Why does he deserve it now?
Once it has been determined that a person is both here illegally, and a member of a criminal gang, what further process is that illegal criminal due before being deported? What is yet to be determined?
I'm not a legal scholar nor an immigration law experet, but common sense tells me that such a person should not be here in our country. If I am a criminal, and I sneak into another country and take up residence there, I would fully expect to be arrested and kicked out at some point.
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Ring of Honor [21680]
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Re: Let's talk "due process".
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Apr 15, 2025, 9:39 AM
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The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that you're full of sh!t.
These guys are idiots. You're not.
Just stop.
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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"These guys are idiots. You're not."
Apr 15, 2025, 9:53 AM
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Those are not my words, and if you think that's what I'm implying, then maybe you are the . . . never mind. Just stop, and help me understand the SC ruling, if you please.
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Ring of Honor [21680]
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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Here's where I disagree . . .
Apr 15, 2025, 10:53 AM
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And I respect the court's ruling, even if I don't understand or agree, because in principle, we are a country of laws which must be respected. Like immigration laws, and respect for our border.
I can't speak to the legality of it, which is for courts and judges, who themselves often don't agree, but based strictly on principle, I don't see how much due process a person who has already said "#### due process" deserves. Besides, we already know he is here illegally, I mean, that much is not in question, so what more do we need? What more process is needed? I think we have every right to deny entry by whatever means is necessary to anyone who chooses to cross our border without due process. I think it's preposterous, and just an abuse of the system to afford all of our protections to anyone who is able to force or sneak their way in. Instead, I think we have the right to physically push them right back across the border. I don't think they deserve to be here in the first place, much less entitled to endless hearings and appeals. It's a clear abuse of what we as a country have to offer, and unapologetically takes advantage of what has been a broken system and failed policy.
Just my opinion. Respect for the law starts with respect for the law.
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Campus Hero [13621]
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Thats just it. He wasnt here illegally. 2019 the courts
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Apr 15, 2025, 12:13 PM
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granted him a withholding from removal status , meaning , DHS could not deport him. He was in process of doing the right things to become a citizen. ICE grabbed him, illegally, administration admits they mistakenly deported him, yet WH says fugg him, he sucks, and we ain’t doing a h I t about it.
And now WH says, El Salvador isn’t letting him go. And we know that is BS. They’ll do whatever we tell them. Just another total puss move by Trump.
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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Then I agree, the court ruling should be observed.
Apr 15, 2025, 2:05 PM
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But if we know he entered illegally, he shouldn't be allowed to stay.
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Tiger Titan [48917]
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Am I to understand that...
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Apr 15, 2025, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to Here's where I disagree . . . ] |
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Criminals suddenly don't deserve due process because... they rejected due process by committing a crime?
Is that the argument?
Why are so many of you suddenly against giving criminals what's guaranteed in the BoR?
You're smart enough and know Trump is evil enough that he'll stretch this to people who aren't criminals, right?
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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In some cases, no.
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Apr 15, 2025, 1:50 PM
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If I'm a border guard, and I'm standing on U.S. soil and a person is just on the other side in say, Mexico, and against my warnings, steps across the border onto U.S. soil, I think I have the right to shove them right back into Mexico, and use whatever force is necessary to keep them from crossing again. I don't think that person who has said "fu ck due process, fu ck your laws", is suddenly entitled to stay in the U.S. illegally for years of due process in our courts. Let's say that illegal who says "fu ck due process" evades me and is caught the next day. I still think it's perfectly reasonable to dump them right back into Mexico, without affording them the due process they have already refused. At any point someone is positively identified as being here illegally, they should be sent packing. Otherwise we are allowing our system to be wrongly exploited.
My position has zero to do with Trump. We have the right to stop and not reward illegal immigration, and control our border.
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Team Captain [483]
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Re: In some cases, no.
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Apr 15, 2025, 2:19 PM
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Are you really comparing deportation - sending someone back to their country - with shipping this guy to a maximum-security prison in El Salvador without any legal proceedings? That’s not just a stretch; it’s a complete misrepresentation of what's happening.
By your logic, if someone breaks any law - even a minor one - we should deny them all rights and send them wherever we see fit. That’s authoritarian nonsense. The U.S. doesn’t gain strength by abandoning the rule of law; it gains it by upholding it, even when it's inconvenient.
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Orange Elite [5328]
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Re: In some cases, no.
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Apr 15, 2025, 2:49 PM
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That's exactly what he's trying contend. He's failing badly at it. 😆
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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Now THAT'S a massive stretch.
Apr 15, 2025, 2:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: In some cases, no. ] |
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I simply don't think people who demonstrate total disregard for due process by entering our country illegally should expect due process when it benefits them, nor should they be entitled to all of the benefits and protections afforded actual citizens.
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Team Captain [483]
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Re: Now THAT'S a massive stretch.
Apr 15, 2025, 3:16 PM
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I’m all for fixing our immigration system. It’s overloaded, underfunded, and full of loopholes that slow everything down and get exploited. Deportations take forever, and there’s plenty of room for abuse.
But let’s be clear: what happened in this situation isn’t a solution to that problem. There’s a huge difference between a legal deportation and shipping someone off to a prison in El Salvador. That’s not immigration enforcement - that’s bypassing the process entirely.
If the system is broken (and it is) the answer isn’t to break it further. The fix has to come from changing the laws, not from sidestepping them. Anything else sets a precedent we’re all going to regret.
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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I agree 100% that our system is broken. One of the things that has been
Apr 15, 2025, 4:54 PM
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broken has been open borders and lax security, which has resulted in a gazillion illegals which is the main reason the system is overloaded.
Of course sending this guy back to El Salvador won't solve anything; it's not supposed to. Rewarding people who are here illegally doesn't fix anything either. I agree the courts should be respected, but that doesn't mean that people who are here illegally should be protected or rewarded, or that they shouldn't be removed. I maintain that if we know (as it appears in th8s case), that's all the due process we need. It would be nice if we could insure safety and prosperity for those we deport, but ultimately that is not our responsibility.
By all means, make our immigration system fair and reasonable. Get it fixed. But don't accept or reward illegal entry.
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110%er [3658]
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So you want treat these people as 3/5 of a human being
Apr 15, 2025, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to Now THAT'S a massive stretch. ] |
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How 18th century of you.
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Orange Elite [5328]
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Re: Now THAT'S a massive stretch.
Apr 15, 2025, 4:09 PM
[ in reply to Now THAT'S a massive stretch. ] |
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The Constitution states that individuals are guaranteed due process. Take the "L" on this and live to fight another day. 😆
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Campus Hero [13621]
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I can see where youre coming from, Smiling,
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Apr 15, 2025, 5:26 PM
[ in reply to In some cases, no. ] |
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and don’t entirely disagree with you in that scenario. Cross the border, shove’em back. But to effectuate that change to our laws we’d have to upend the Constitution. Due process is a core tenant, protects individuals from the government depriving them of life, liberty, property. It’s not just a guarantee for citizens only. I’m sure there is a legal way to frame it to not challenge the constitution, but I don’t know.
I do know that sending that dude to El Salvador when he was doing what we asked was wrong as h311. We even admitted we fugged up and then said ehhh fugg him.
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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And I understand where you are coming from as well.
Apr 16, 2025, 9:46 AM
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All people have basic rights that must be observed. However, there are many situations whereby we deny those rights to certain people, or favor the rights of some over the rights of others. Breaking certain laws forfeits those rights. I think this should be one of those cases. Typically guilt or innocence is determined by a trial in court, with a judge and/or jury, with prosecutors and attorneys.
When it comes to determining if someone is here illegally, like with the guy who was sent back to El Salvador, we already know he entered the U.S, illegally. At that point, his due process is done. I know the courts had already given him a reprieve, and I agree that must be respected; I just think it's wrong. If sending him back to El Salvador equals an unjust death sentence, and there are other countries that would take him, I'd be all for that, as long as it is understood he must leave.
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Tiger Titan [48917]
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First, they arent saying "#### due process"
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Apr 15, 2025, 8:39 PM
[ in reply to In some cases, no. ] |
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That’s not what that means. And your hyperbolic example of being at the border with them has nothing to do with cases where our government arrests people.
You either support due process for all or for none. There really is no in between,
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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You're right, it was a poor choice of words on my part. Let me try again.
Apr 16, 2025, 9:11 AM
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We have a legal process for immigrating to the United States. All who enter illegally have said "#### the process, #### your laws". That's how they start their life in our country.
You are correct, that is not the same as "due process" as it is typically used, and I do understand the difference. It is just my opinion that once it is determined that such people entered illegally, their right to any further due process involving attempts to remain in the U.S. is done. We have so many such people here now who said "#### your process, #### your laws", that I don't think it would be possible to properly adjudicate every single one. I don't think that has occurred by accident. The first and primary concern is "are they here legally?". If not, the next step is immediate deportation.
Just like the homeless person who sneaks in the back door of my house, against my will and without my permission, I can kick him out anytime. While he may face a miserable existence back on the streets, and my heart breaks for him and his plight, I am in no way obligated to let him remain in my home. If I can help him in some way, I probably will, but first he's got to get out.
Because this issue has become so politicized, those on one side refuse to accept that truth, and try to put the theoretical rights of an illegal above the right of a citizen to determine who is allowed in their home.
When it comes to those here illegally, the first concern is to protect the rights of U.S. citizens and enforce existing laws; stop illegal immigration and remove the illegals that are here. If we can do so in a way that does not harm the illegal, we should, but that is not the first concern.
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Tiger Titan [48917]
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Here's the thing
Apr 16, 2025, 9:49 AM
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I agree with almost everything you said, but here's the rub:
We have so many such people here now who said "#### your process, #### your laws", that I don't think it would be possible to properly adjudicate every single one. I don't think that has occurred by accident. The first and primary concern is "are they here legally?". If not, the next step is immediate deportation.
But we have to do it right. For the sake of our nation's existence, we must. And we especially can't deviate from it under this administration because, well...
Trump doesn't give a #### about securing America's borders or stopping immigration. He only cares about seizing power and control.
NOTHING this man does is to benefit others. Only himself.
That's why we have to do it the right way. It's also a lot more nuanced than just "are they here legally" and deport if they aren't. Like the Maryland guy. Or the 19 year old from NY. Or the many other cases where they were taken off the street not because they were illegal but because their visas were yanked for their speech.
He's escalating what he can get away with and using illegal immigration as the first vessel to get there.
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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Re: Here's the thing
Apr 16, 2025, 10:27 AM
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Trump doesn't give a #### about securing America's borders or stopping immigration. He only cares about seizing power and control.
An opinion.
That's why we have to do it the right way. It's also a lot more nuanced than just "are they here legally" and deport if they aren't.
No, it's not. That's just a politically biased take that ignores the simple truth. Once the guy from El Salvador entered illegally, he was elligible for deportation. Nothing he does after that changes that. And the court in 2019 did not say he could not be deported, just that he could not be deported to El Salvador.
Deporting people we know entered illegally IS doing it the right way. In most cases, due process to make that determination does not require a trial or multiple appeals - like the guy from El Salvador. That's the way it should be regardless of who is president or what you or I think of him. If Trump is indeed abusing the system, the answer is to stop the abuse, not stop deporting people who are here illegally, which in and of itself is perfectly legal and just, regardless of the motivation.
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Ring of Honor [22388]
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Do a little research, the last judicial ruling was not deportation***
Apr 15, 2025, 9:44 AM
[ in reply to Let's talk "due process". ] |
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Orange Immortal [65766]
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Tell me what it was so I can use a term to which you agree is correct.***
Apr 15, 2025, 9:49 AM
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Hall of Famer [8147]
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We don't actually know any of that. That's kinda the whole point of this ruling.
Apr 15, 2025, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Let's talk "due process". ] |
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If he was here illegally or a gang member, they never proved that in court.
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Clemson Icon [27552]
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Re: We don't actually know any of that. That's kinda the whole point of this ruling.
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Apr 15, 2025, 10:44 AM
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They proved he came here illegally, but that he couldn't be deported to El Salvador due to safety concerns. He could be deported elsewhere. That said, he was still working on getting a green card and it was in the process of possibly happening, but not for sure. Those are supposedly the basics. He was identified as a gang member by some informant or something of the sort. Other than that there is no proof. Supreme Court ordered him to be returned. Trump told the Supreme Court to suck it and that they are meaningless. There's the story.
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Tiger Titan [48917]
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Sorry, but nobody has an argument...
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Apr 15, 2025, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to Let's talk "due process". ] |
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As to why this man should be in El Salvador.
-The Trump administration admitted they messed up.
-The man was protected from deportation by a judge's order.
-The SCOTUS ruled unanimously that he needs to be returned (even Clarence!)
That's it. There's no argument that doesn't boil down to...
"Well, he was here illegally and despite all the logical reasons why he shouldn't have been deported, I am taking the emotional argument (it is) that everyone should be sent back no matter what!"
The dude worked a regular job and was a family man. And everyone involved admits it shouldn't have happened.
So why won't they send him back? They've either...
-Already murdered him.
-He has witnessed and experienced such horrors in that prison, they know they can't let him out to speak about it.
Thus, an argument for keeping him there is even worse.
Again, no logical argument exists to keep the man there.
EDIT:
Also, this is NOT an argument against giving people due process. "He said "to hell with due process". Why does he deserve it now?"
C'mon, man.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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Ring of Honor [21680]
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Re: Sorry, but nobody has an argument...
Apr 15, 2025, 3:05 PM
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Unfortunately I think you're right. I think the guy's dead already.
Team Trump looks like sh!t on this one, but they're still being defiant about it, even to the point of defying a Supreme Court ruling. In any rational society that alone would have been grounds for immediate impeachment - the whole point of the rule of law is that no one is above the rule of law! - but we're not rational and the GOP has turned into a party of angry dumb rednecks represented by cowards. It still burns political capital pointlessly, and Donald's running perilously short on that as it is. If he causes a full-on recession with his trade-war bullsh!t it'll drop below 35%...maybe lower. That would be new territory even for him.
Which strongly suggests they're willing to look so bad because the admitting he got murdered by MS-13 about five minutes after going to prison would make them look even worse.
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Tiger Titan [48917]
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Lets call it what it is
Apr 15, 2025, 8:42 PM
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We have established a death camp in El Salvador.
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Hall of Famer [8147]
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Do you care even a little bit that he's blatantly lying?***
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Apr 15, 2025, 9:37 AM
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Ring of Honor [22388]
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Not if it is on X, got to be true .***
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Apr 15, 2025, 9:45 AM
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Clemson Icon [27552]
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Clemson Icon [27552]
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Re: Stephen Miller on the gang member that was legally deported that so many of
Apr 15, 2025, 10:39 AM
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He hasn't been proven to be a gang member, so there's that. Then there's the Supreme Court.
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TigerNet Champion [121445]
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Re: Stephen Miller on the gang member that was legally deported that so many of
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Apr 15, 2025, 10:50 AM
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Steven Miller is liar, that has been well-established. Hopefully, we hang him first when the 'coup ultimately fails.
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Campus Hero [13621]
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Im a guillotine guy, myself.***
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Apr 15, 2025, 12:03 PM
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Replies: 46
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