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CU Medallion [59023]
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Who up in here thinks we should stick with Israel no matter what because
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Apr 29, 2024, 4:57 PM
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they are God's chosen ones (or for some such religious reasons)?
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Heisman Winner [106864]
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Re: Who up in here thinks we should stick with Israel no matter what because
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Apr 29, 2024, 4:59 PM
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CU Medallion [59023]
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Re: Who up in here thinks we should stick with Israel no matter what because
Apr 29, 2024, 5:05 PM
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I figured that was understood.
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Oculus Spirit [77190]
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Wrong bored or did you mean to post this here?***
Apr 29, 2024, 5:06 PM
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CU Medallion [59023]
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I effed up. I swear I thought I was in politics.
Apr 29, 2024, 5:17 PM
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I'm too easily distracted.
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Hall of Famer [24617]
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Re: Who up in here thinks we should stick with Israel no matter what because
Apr 30, 2024, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: Who up in here thinks we should stick with Israel no matter what because ] |
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Since you admit it was a bait question, I will treat it like one: the politics and religion boards sees some purely argumentative questions lacking either rational/factual foundation or positive intent, but this one might be the emptiest of all.
Followers of Jesus, who believe they will spend eternity with Him due to a condition called imputed righteousness, sentence each other for breaking the law. God's chosen-and-paid-for people are subject to the law. No one around here thinks otherwise. I would have said you know that, but apparently not. Anyway, everyone knows Israel's right to exist has to be historical and/or legal.
Historically, since you think the OT is "nonsense", we know they were there before and during the Roman Empire. Several empires then swapped it, most recently the Ottomans, who had it until the end of WWI, at which time nobody had it, so the League of Nations then named England as a caretaker, which was like granting your friend your migraine. At no time did Jews cease living there.
Legally, the United Nations then partitioned Palestine into roughly 50/50 Jewish and Arab states: if you own land there now, that's as legal as you can get. The Arabs dont like that, and the goal of running the Jews off, killing them if necessary, has never been denied.
That's where we are, and we all know it. I would hate to read your question and know I posted it.
Additionally, abandoning Jews to a millennia-long, world wide goal of exterminating them could be a dangerous policy if God exists, and genocidal if he doesn't. Or, we declare Israel null/void and have them all settled here. They can walk in through Mexico. Or would that be when we stop that? So, go for it and tell me your choice.
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CU Medallion [59023]
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Wowza! So all of that is the answer to the very simple question
Apr 30, 2024, 11:32 AM
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Who up in here thinks we should stick with Israel no matter what because they are God's chosen ones (or for some such religious reasons)? Meaning, I thought obviously, do you believe we face retribution or abandonment from God if at some point we fail to support Israel?
The question wasn't "What is the alternative?" or "What the hayull happens to the world if we don't?"
Some people responded as if I were suggesting we abandon Israel and let radical Islam take over. Those people completely got it wrong and avoided the actual, very simple question I asked.
It was a bait question in the sense that it was intended to elicit opinions, debate, and discussion. I thought that's what this place was for. That was my hope; but the level of anger, defensiveness and condescension it has generated has really shocked me.
As for it being "empty", I'm not sure what you mean. Political and religious and philosophical and all kinds of things are discussed and debated on here constantly. People believeing that we should support Israel no matter what based strictly on the belief that they are God's chosen people is indeed factual, and I don't see why it's not a worthy topic of discussion, or what makes it "empty".
I do not believe the OT is nonsense, and I don't believe I've ever said such; but if I have, let me set the record straight. I believe the OT is a mixture of myth and historical fact that is for the most part a reflection of how the authors experienced and thought about God. I believe it contains tremendous wisdom and value for mankind, but I believe it reflects the limited knowledge and perspective of ancient peoples. I do not believe it is the inerrant, infallable words of God.
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Hall of Famer [24617]
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I thought you'd be happy. Not really.
Apr 30, 2024, 12:30 PM
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You said it was a bait question. Then you said people were dancing around it, apparently mad that people were treating like, you know, a bait question. I treated it like one, but didn't dance around it. And you don't like that either. But we knew that.
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CU Medallion [59023]
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I thought a bait question was one intended to lure people into a discussion.
Apr 30, 2024, 5:28 PM
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In this case, I hoped people who believe Israel is God's chosen people, and we should therefore support them no matter what or face God's wrath, would be interested in responding accordingly. Or, maybe people who did not agree with that would chime in as well. I am simply curious, and interested in hearing from people who believe we should support Israel no matter what for that reason.
My question, designed to spark discussion, was genuine and straightforward. In no way was it a trick question, and there was no hidden motive. So, if that's what you mean by "bait", it was not a bait question.
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Hall of Famer [24617]
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We all know what was meant by the meme you agreed to.***
Apr 30, 2024, 9:58 PM
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CU Medallion [59023]
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Obviously not.***
Apr 30, 2024, 11:14 PM
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Oculus Spirit [76229]
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If God exists, don't you think God would have put an
Apr 30, 2024, 12:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: Who up in here thinks we should stick with Israel no matter what because ] |
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end to all this madness a long, long time ago? Maybe kept going all tower of babel on projects to keep things from getting so bad?
Now look, I am not here telling anyone what to believe in nor claiming to know all the ins and outs of the bible. Just suggesting folks ponder on stuff a little.
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Hall of Famer [24617]
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Re: If God exists, don't you think God would have put an
Apr 30, 2024, 1:05 PM
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Couldn't agree more. Three things we might include in the pondering:
1. If we think up something we dont know the answer to, have we thought God out of existence? 2. If God does exist, and bad things here exist, what are the possible explanations? 3. Are we pondering or rationalizing?
My original answer didnt assume anything about God. I mentioned Him in a way that excluded Him from thoughts on Israel's national sovereignty, because, bait question. How is this relative to that?
Message was edited by: CUintulsa®
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CU Medallion [59023]
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A couple of facts that are not in dispute ...
Apr 30, 2024, 5:12 PM
[ in reply to If God exists, don't you think God would have put an ] |
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1. If God exists, and is all-knowing and all-powerful ...
2. Sin, evil, and satan and all of the suffering that results only exist by the will of God, and
3. Sin, evil, and satan are totally unnecessary for any such God to acheive anything he wants.
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Oculus Spirit [77190]
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Womp womp
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Apr 29, 2024, 5:05 PM
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Heisman Winner [120960]
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Lets look at the bait this way.
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Apr 29, 2024, 5:09 PM
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Consider the alternative: Not supporting Israel - Islam eventually takes over the region after a devastating war, yes it will eventually go nuclear. Europe is undergoing a demographic shift to Islamic population. OK, it will take generations and possibly get to the point where Fundamentalists take over. If US stops supporting Israel, what do you think happens with other countries who currently also do the same.
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CU Medallion [59023]
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I totally get that.
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Apr 29, 2024, 5:19 PM
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That's based on common sense and practical considerations ... not religious beliefs, which is what I was asking about.
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Heisman Winner [120960]
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Of course it religious
Apr 29, 2024, 5:22 PM
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It’s Islam vs non-Islam. Can you imagine a world that is a totally Islamic society?
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CU Medallion [60366]
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I doubt the wimmenfolk would like it much
Apr 29, 2024, 6:46 PM
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esp the pink and green haired ones that like to yell a lot.
Be interesting to watch and see how that matchup would go.
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CU Medallion [59023]
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I hate to think of such a world. That's enough to make me support Israel, on
Apr 29, 2024, 10:49 PM
[ in reply to Of course it religious ] |
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that basis, as a force against the horrors of radical Islam, not because of how I believe God feels about Israel. Those are two very different reasons for supporting Israel.
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Oculus Spirit [76229]
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Yeah, that world would suck. Too bad a lot of the Christian groups who
Apr 30, 2024, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to Of course it religious ] |
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feed the republicans want us to live that way, except for the not eating pork part.
I'm for a 3rd option of letting people alone unless they are hurting somebody.
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Hall of Famer [24878]
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Re: Yeah, that world would suck. Too bad a lot of the Christian groups who
Apr 30, 2024, 1:31 PM
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Is a group making you do something you don't want to do?
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Oculus Spirit [76229]
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Well, this week they are only trying to make people
May 1, 2024, 8:13 AM
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keep rape and incest babies. The other stuff is just not allowing people to go about the life they want to live. However if left unchecked I can see things getting a lot worse.
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All-In [42824]
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CU Medallion [56333]
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The more I watch these fools on campus the more pro-Israel I become.***
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Apr 29, 2024, 8:39 PM
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All-In [26776]
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What's the other option ?***
Apr 29, 2024, 9:29 PM
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CU Medallion [59023]
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To support Israel no matter what BECAUSE you believe they are God's chosen
Apr 29, 2024, 10:54 PM
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ones, NOT primarily because you believe radical Islam is an evil, unjust way of life.
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All-In [30983]
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Aren't they "God's chosen ones" based on the Old Testament
Apr 29, 2024, 10:54 PM
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which was written by Jews?
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CU Medallion [59023]
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Well, pretty much.***
Apr 29, 2024, 10:56 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94453]
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Would you let someone rape and murder your mother-in-law?
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Apr 30, 2024, 6:52 AM
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Israel is God's wife. The Church is the Bride of Christ. Christ is God's Only Begotten Son.
God could have sent a savior of any people but for some or many unknown reasons He chose Israel. I don't like Israel but they are my MIL so my vote is to not get involved in my MIL's personal problems.
Israel has a Husband. Do you want to stand by and see what Israel's husband does to His wife's enemies? I do!
Oh Yeah, on the question in the subject line...I would love to see them try.
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Heisman Winner [138430]
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No but I also wouldnt go into their neighborhood and
Apr 30, 2024, 7:51 AM
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Burn down every house and kill everyone in the rapist/murderer’s neighborhood.
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CU Medallion [59023]
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Thank you. You have come closer to answering the question than anybody
Apr 30, 2024, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to Would you let someone rape and murder your mother-in-law? ] |
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so far. I think you are saying that we should stand by Israel no matter what they do, becuase they are God's wife, and we don't want to be on the wrong side of God.
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Oculus Spirit [94453]
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I will but I do not creat political policy, foreign aid or have and influence...
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Apr 30, 2024, 8:16 PM
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on anyone who does. I don't care what our government does. Nothing it can do will cause me to react neither with delight nor contempt.
Morally, I'm pulling for Israel to defend itself and can't wait to see what happens when war is declared between them and whoever scratches that wildcat's azs in that phonebooth we call the middle east.
Again, I don't care what our government does.
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Heisman Winner [106864]
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CU Medallion [59023]
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This is what I'm getting at, of course. For those who support Israel
Apr 30, 2024, 11:43 AM
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because of the belief they are God's chosen people, and therefore fear retribution or abandonment if we don't support them, will they support them no matter what ... no matter what Israel does?
And before somebody misinterprets me again, I am 100% in favor of Israel going after Hamas and not letting the fact that Hamas hides behind women and children and sick people in hospitals stop them. Take reasonable precautions, but can't let Hamas win or remain a threat.
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Oculus Spirit [94453]
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My support for Israel is personal.
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Apr 30, 2024, 8:17 PM
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I don't lobby others to support Israel. It doesn't matter what others think or do.
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All-In [42824]
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Dang, that's some pretty specific criteria
Apr 30, 2024, 7:28 AM
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To be one of his chosen people. Must suck for those not born into the club.
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CU Medallion [59023]
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I'm not sure exactly what it means or entails, but it's what I've always
Apr 30, 2024, 9:01 AM
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been told. I've had numerous people tell me that we need to stick with Israel no matter what, because they are God's children, or God's chosen ones.
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All-In [42824]
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Well, I'm siding with them because...
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Apr 30, 2024, 10:56 AM
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Their innocent civilians (descendants of Holocaust survivors)--including children--were murdered, raped, tortured, and held hostage while they tried to go about their daily lives.
I don't need a religion to convince me of this, and I would hope others don't, either.
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CU Medallion [59023]
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That's why I'm siding with them too.***
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Apr 30, 2024, 11:35 AM
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CU Medallion [59023]
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I'm not sure if it's intentional, but people are dancing around or conflating
Apr 30, 2024, 9:21 AM
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the issue.
By no means am I suggesting that we would be a better world under radical Islam, or that supporting Israel because they are a powerful ally in our fight against radical Islam isn't the right thing to do. That is a very wise and valid reason to support Israel. I do not question that - my question is very different.
All of my life, growing up in a Baptist church and since then having conversations with Bible literalists, I am told that Israel is "God's children" or "chosen people", whatever that means, and therefore we should support them no matter what, and if we don't, we are doomed. MY question is, is that a good reason for supporting them no matter what?
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Oculus Spirit [76229]
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There is no good reason to support them "No matter what"
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Apr 30, 2024, 9:31 AM
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Some dudes try to cross the little lines we drew for them arbitrarily, we bow up and help. They start trying to invade some place, which is my understanding of this Rafa business, we probably tell them to woah hold it. Also, we mean it when we tell them to woah hold it.
It is about time all these religions take a look and start doing a whole lot less killing in the name of activity.
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Lot o points [157238]
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CU Medallion [59023]
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Lot o points [157238]
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I attended a large mainstream Southern Baptist Church.
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Apr 30, 2024, 10:13 AM
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The preacher was banging the youth minister’s wife, so there wasn’t much literal anything going on.
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Oculus Spirit [76229]
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If it had been Presby church circa 2003 he
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Apr 30, 2024, 10:16 AM
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could have been banging the youth minister. The let ladies do that job.
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Hall of Famer [24878]
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Re: I attended a large mainstream Southern Baptist Church.
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Apr 30, 2024, 10:58 AM
[ in reply to I attended a large mainstream Southern Baptist Church. ] |
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Last Southern Baptist Church I attended, the Preacher was banging my motha.
I mean, he is married to her, but still... Groce
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CU Medallion [67180]
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Oculus Spirit [94453]
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America doesn't need Israel or Europe, Asia or any other nations or continents.
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Apr 30, 2024, 8:21 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure if it's intentional, but people are dancing around or conflating ] |
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We are the powerful. China is coming on but it will be decades before they approach our level of power. Our power comes from trade because we are the consumers. Disrupting our economy would do more damage to our trading partners than to us. We can return to manufacturing, we can't be replaced as a trade partner because of the sheet volume of goods we consume and the price we pay for them.
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Oculus Spirit [76229]
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That is what I've been saying all along.
May 1, 2024, 8:17 AM
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I think China is a bigger threat to corporations than to our actual way of life over here. It is also a delicate balance between ripping off intellectual property and under cutting folks vs. letting the Corporations be successful enough they keep paying people so they have money to spend.
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Hall of Famer [22507]
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plan C
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Apr 30, 2024, 10:14 AM
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dose everyone with mushrooms
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Hall of Famer [24878]
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Re: plan C
Apr 30, 2024, 11:05 AM
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Most of the Middle Eastern people I've worked with definitely need a chill pill.
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Oculus Spirit [82014]
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Who up in here thinks this on THE WRONG BORED?***
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Apr 30, 2024, 1:44 PM
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CU Medallion [59023]
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Oculus Spirit [94453]
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Hall of Famer [24878]
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Re: We can't post nudes, what are we suppose to do?
Apr 30, 2024, 8:26 PM
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Yes
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