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Campus Update: Clemson renounces Ben Tillman, will create a task force
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Campus Update: Clemson renounces Ben Tillman, will create a task force
Jul 17, 2015, 3:46 PM
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All-In [28802]
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Wonder what's next...***
Jul 17, 2015, 3:51 PM
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Orange Immortal [66784]
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Replacing the White House
Jul 17, 2015, 3:53 PM
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It was built by slaves.
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Associate AD [1095]
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Re: Replacing the White House
Jul 17, 2015, 5:32 PM
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It is the WHITE House, sounds pretty racist to me.
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Oculus Spirit [43141]
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We can start calling it the brown house***
Jul 17, 2015, 5:37 PM
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110%er [6821]
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Re: Replacing the White House
Jul 17, 2015, 9:20 PM
[ in reply to Replacing the White House ] |
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They already need to fumigation the White House.
It has the stench of Marxists and Communists throughout...
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CU Guru [1527]
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Re: Wonder what's next...***
Jul 17, 2015, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to Wonder what's next...*** ] |
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The world will end and everyone will die.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100904]
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what wimps..saying, history is history..leave it along & grow from it!
Jul 17, 2015, 4:03 PM
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GoTiGERS
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All-In [28802]
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And nobody should care til then...
Jul 17, 2015, 4:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wonder what's next...*** ] |
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I'm as ambivalent about Tillman Hall as I am about the Confederate flag. What's more worrying is when universities get in DO SOMETHING mode and they start creating commissions and having "dialogues" about non-existent problems. That's how you end up with ever-shifting standards of what's ok to call a building, or who's ok to honor.
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CU Guru [1527]
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Re: And nobody should care til then...
Jul 17, 2015, 4:25 PM
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I'm just goin' on with ya cam. I understand slippery slope and pretty much agree with you. I'm as tired as you are of stories like this. Have a good weekend.
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All-In [28802]
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And the same to you***
Jul 17, 2015, 5:20 PM
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All-Conference [427]
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In other news,..Clemson University becomes the next public
Jul 17, 2015, 3:55 PM
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university to stop teaching HISTORY! This has now gone beyond ridiculous.
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Orange Immortal [66784]
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That's going on everywhere*
Jul 17, 2015, 3:57 PM
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Clemson Sports Icon [59311]
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You got that straight! The other day on Waters World, there
Jul 17, 2015, 7:30 PM
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was only one person he interviewed that knew why we were celebrating Independence Day. I mean, one lady must have been 65 years old and she did now know who our first president was. She thought we gained our independence from the South, and that we won that independence in .....1949!! I kid you not. One other young Bimbo, and I realize that is my sexism coming through, but that is the best word I can think of to describe her,did not get one answer right. Then, as she was walking off, she said, in a BIMBO voice," ....and I got an A+ in History". I thought to myself," Sweetheart, that wasn't because you knew the answers"....
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National Champion [7726]
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I'm a history major
Jul 19, 2015, 1:27 PM
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and that just baffles my mind that some people don't know the answers to simple questions like that. I remember watching some youtube video where they asked Americans and Europeans the same questions regarding American history, and the Europeans knew ten times more than Americans. it is a shame. I believe the problem goes back to not paying teachers enough. the European education system is far better than ours and the reason it is better is because they pay their teachers about 20,000 dollars more. so therefore the teachers care about their job and will be better teachers because of it. I have heard teachers in our area basically say that they don't give a crap and it pisses me off. here is a link to the salary comparisons.
http://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2014/sep/05/how-the-job-of-a-teacher-compares-around-the-world
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Letterman [178]
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Re: In other news,..Clemson University becomes the next public
Jul 17, 2015, 4:14 PM
[ in reply to In other news,..Clemson University becomes the next public ] |
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When does history stop being written? The only thing that doesn't change is change itself. I guess when they changed the name of Main Building to Tillman Hall they stopped teaching history then too? This is a good change. Ben Tillman was a vile, hateful person and the sooner his name's prominence on campus is reduced, the better. His actions and beliefs are a part of history that I barely heard mentioned before I took it upon myself to learn it - all I heard was what a great man Tillman was to stand up for the creation of Clemson. For that, I give him kudos - for the rest, he doesn't deserve a building, but a special spot in hell. Who is that is forgetting to teach history?
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National Champion [7515]
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so a person doesnt deserve recognition in something they
Jul 17, 2015, 4:37 PM
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helped create, and were one of the founding board of trustees members, right. It doesnt matter if you think he is a good guy or not he helped with the creation of the University and deserves credit. If not for his help and work, the University may not even exist.
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National Champion [7515]
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However, I do think it is the University's responsibility to
Jul 17, 2015, 4:41 PM
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adequately educate everyone about the negative aspect of his history and clearly say that although we recognize him as a founding and vital member of the university, we do not condone all of the negative actions.
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Letterman [178]
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Re: However, I do think it is the University's responsibility to
Jul 17, 2015, 4:53 PM
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Dude, the negative aspects inhabited every fiber of his being. This is not some guy who owned slaves, or fought for South Carolina in the Civil War. This is just about one of the worst bad actors in the history of the State.
Understand that his contributions to the Clemson were so great that they waited until virtually everyone who knew him was dead before they named a building after him. Why do you think they waited so long?
Not a fan of comparisons, but this is the rough equivalent of leaving Saddam Hussein statues standing in Baghdad. Was that rewriting history?
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110%er [6938]
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Letterman [178]
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Re: so a person doesnt deserve recognition in something they
Jul 17, 2015, 4:47 PM
[ in reply to so a person doesnt deserve recognition in something they ] |
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No, somebody as despicable as Ben Tillman only deserves recognition as a terrorist, a despot and a murderer. That part, the dominant part of his putrid life has gone unrecognized for too long. Read about him. It's unforgivable, and it needs to be acknowledged. Put up a plaque for the founders of the university. Leave the name of a murderer on the flagship building and perhaps symbol of the university? Not for another minute.
There are many other sons and daughters of Clemson that deserve their name there more than Tillman. Just about every one of them.
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110%er [6938]
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Re: so a person doesnt deserve recognition in something they
Jul 17, 2015, 9:33 PM
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It sounds as if you just learned his history. And you are a graduate of Clemson?
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Orange Elite [5493]
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All-Time Great [88563]
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Clemson Icon [24725]
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Great news!***
Jul 17, 2015, 3:59 PM
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Head Coach [958]
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I agree
Jul 17, 2015, 5:30 PM
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Now change the name back to "Old Main."
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Orange Elite [5493]
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Re: Great news!***
Jul 17, 2015, 11:04 PM
[ in reply to Great news!*** ] |
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you are a moron
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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Irrational hypocrisy train keeps on chugging.***
Jul 17, 2015, 4:03 PM
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Orange Blooded [3258]
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This won't end until all caucasians are made slaves.
Jul 17, 2015, 4:14 PM
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With total African-American leadership, a Muslim power will overtake the USA, and we will go the route of the other once great powers of history.
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Varsity [219]
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***Puts on tinfoil hat***
Jul 17, 2015, 4:45 PM
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That's the best conspiracy theory laugh I've had in a while. Thanks!
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Solid Orange [1340]
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Re: This won't end until all caucasians are made slaves.
Jul 17, 2015, 4:48 PM
[ in reply to This won't end until all caucasians are made slaves. ] |
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> With total African-American leadership, a Muslim
> power will overtake the USA, and we will go the route
> of the other once great powers of history.
I definitely just felt my IQ drop significantly reading this
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Orange Blooded [3258]
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As I Clemson grad my IQ is just find.......thanks.***
Jul 17, 2015, 5:13 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9887]
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"find"??? You sure about that IQ?***
Jul 18, 2015, 11:32 AM
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Letterman [178]
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Re: This won't end until all caucasians are made slaves.
Jul 17, 2015, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to This won't end until all caucasians are made slaves. ] |
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Yes, clearly that is the end goal the Board of Trustees has in mind.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Orange Blooded [3258]
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Do not be concerned for my soul. I have walked with Jesus
Jul 17, 2015, 5:17 PM
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my entire life, and when I leave this earth I will be with Him for eternity.
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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Gridiron Giant [15498]
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Re: This won't end until all caucasians are made slaves.
Jul 17, 2015, 6:29 PM
[ in reply to This won't end until all caucasians are made slaves. ] |
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> With total African-American leadership, a Muslim
> power will overtake the USA, and we will go the route
> of the other once great powers of history.
This won't end until people who think like you finally pass away, unremarkable and unremembered by history.
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Orange Blooded [3258]
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Have a nice day.
Jul 17, 2015, 6:43 PM
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I don't hate anyone, but this goes on and on. We should learn from history, but we can't erase it.
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Orange Beast [6293]
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Re: Have a nice day.
Jul 17, 2015, 6:55 PM
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So let me get this straight: You can only "learn" from our past by naming buildings and building monuments for staunch racists. Got it. Thanks Tigernet!
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Orange Blooded [3258]
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No, but you can't change history by removing names from
Jul 17, 2015, 7:10 PM
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buildings, streets, schools, towns, etc. We need to realize that there has only been one perfect person to walk on this earth, and all the rest of us are sinners. Accepting this fact, we need to strive to do better going forward.
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Ring of Honor [21043]
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I am assuming it will be kinda hard to rename the John C.
Jul 17, 2015, 4:09 PM
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Calhoun mansion.
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Game Changer [1640]
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Re: I am assuming it will be kinda hard to rename the John C.
Jul 17, 2015, 5:15 PM
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don't bet on it once they start
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Clemson Sports Icon [55398]
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Being held ccountable for his actions after death...
Jul 17, 2015, 4:17 PM
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It won't change the past, but at least he won't be honored. Clemson is bigger than Ben Tillman. The controversy isn't needed. Clemson won't miss a beat and will just continue to get better and better.
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Oculus Spirit [39349]
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Re: Being held ccountable for his actions after death...
Jul 17, 2015, 4:21 PM
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History is made through changes . If history were an account of things being static and impermeable , we would all be wearing togas and grape leaf head wreaths .
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Well said and great point. **
Jul 17, 2015, 4:25 PM
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nm
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Letterman [178]
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All-In [28802]
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Tiger Titan [50675]
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we'll start with clemson and then calhoun***
Jul 17, 2015, 4:27 PM
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Orange Phenom [14752]
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Re: Who would the controversy be worth it for?
Jul 17, 2015, 4:39 PM
[ in reply to Who would the controversy be worth it for? ] |
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Nope... good old John C. and Strom will be the next two on the chopping block. The PC police and their culture have overtaken common sense and nothing will be allowed to stand in their way of determining "who" is worthy of recognition. Get ready for the onslaught of "demands" to change street names, building names, and the taking down of monuments. Welcome to Orwell's 1984 - he was just off by 30+ years.
If we continue to judge historical figures through today's PC lens then no historical figure will remain unscathed. Most, if not all, will be found to be unworthy and repugnant in the PC culture of today.
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Ring of Honor [21043]
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The problem is applying 21st century ethics to 19th century
Jul 17, 2015, 4:46 PM
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people. Wonder what 23rd century ethics applied to 21 century people will yield?
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Gridiron Giant [15498]
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Re: The problem is applying 21st century ethics to 19th century
Jul 17, 2015, 5:39 PM
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It's called progress.
19th century ethics did away with 18th century slavery.
20th century ethics did away with 19th century women's prohibition from voting.
Late 20th century ethics did away with 16th through early 20th century ethics that prohibited blacks from voting, eating in restaurants, going to white schools or marrying outside of their race.
History and the value of individual freedom and human rights continue a very long and unnecessarily difficult march forward.
Think about it, Tillman Hall wasn't named Tillman Hall until 1942....not much history to be honored there. And the only possilbe argument for keeping the name is to consciously and purposefully disregard the fact that the man murdered innocent people and didn't go to jail for it. So much for 19th century ethics. It is a period of history that we should be ashamed of. To bad we can't rewrite it.
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1st Rounder [645]
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Re: The problem is applying 21st century ethics to 19th century
Jul 19, 2015, 12:01 PM
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Uh...the rewriting will begin.....watch.
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Letterman [178]
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Re: The problem is applying 21st century ethics to 19th century
Jul 17, 2015, 5:50 PM
[ in reply to The problem is applying 21st century ethics to 19th century ] |
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No guys, this was a person who, judged through 19th century ethics, was an evil and despicable human being. There is no excusing Ben Tillman. He was a corrupt, despotic tyrant and racist, beyond any contemporaries in the State at the time, and arguably, the US.
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Letterman [178]
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Gridiron Giant [15498]
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Re: Who would the controversy be worth it for?
Jul 17, 2015, 5:54 PM
[ in reply to Who would the controversy be worth it for? ] |
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> John C. Calhoun? Strom Thurmond?
Sucked and Sucked. Men of singular hatred. John C. Calhoun was the philosopher and protagonist of treasonous armed insurrection against the United States and the Constitution. Strom Thurmond ran for president on strict segregation. The permanent assignment of 2nd class citizenship to a segment of population based solely on race.
Strom Thurmond: ""I wanna tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that there's not enough troops in the army to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the ni***r race into our theatres into our swimming pools into our homes and into our churches."
John C. Calhoun: "It follows, from what has been stated, that it is a great and dangerous error to suppose that all people are equally entitled to liberty.
Exposing the truth about history IS honoring history.
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Rock Defender [59]
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Re: Being held ccountable for his actions after death...
Jul 17, 2015, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to Being held ccountable for his actions after death... ] |
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Not sure why people would want OUR University to honor such a disgusting individual....
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Legend [6955]
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Paw Warrior [4715]
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While America fears Blacks and Latinos,
Jul 17, 2015, 7:47 PM
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Muslims continue to come to America and get red carpet status, and commit acts of terrorism on innocent American lives.
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Hall of Famer [22966]
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So we can anticipate Tillman's statue on the Capitol grounds
Jul 17, 2015, 4:24 PM
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coming down soon as well???
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Scout Team [166]
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Re: So we can anticipate Tillman's statue on the Capitol grounds
Jul 17, 2015, 4:27 PM
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Count on it. This stuff is just getting started.
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Letterman [178]
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Letterman [178]
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Re: So we can anticipate Tillman's statue on the Capitol grounds
Jul 17, 2015, 5:51 PM
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I should add that we have enough despots among the living there 
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110%er [6938]
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CU Guru [1806]
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So Clements & Univ. "flip-flopped" in response to graffiti
Jul 17, 2015, 4:25 PM
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Earlier, the board issued a statement that they would not touch the re-naming issue. President Clements then wrote a letter saying that history may not always be positive, but it is part of our past. I'm personally not opposed to them changing if the University feels that is what is needed to be done, but I do have a problem with the university not standing their ground and bending on their stance because of some bad P.R. in the presence of graffiti on Tillman Hall. I'm disappointed at the lack of consistency here. Similar to Nikki Haley's flip-flop on the flag issue, she didn't call for the flag to come down until it became a very public spectacle and when every one jumped on the "pull the flag down" train. Here certain individuals, like those who screamed for the flag to come down, started screaming about "Tillman." People are also screaming about Stone Mtn... who knows what will be next. Fort Hill should probably be demolished. Clements will issue a statement saying that it is a symbol of the university that would never be touched... two weeks later: "Clemson Univ. Supports the demolishing of a slave-owner's plantation due to the complaints of individuals.
You have to draw a hard line as a university, I'm just unsure as to where that line will be.
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Orange Blooded [3258]
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So what is next? Calhoun Mansion, the name Clemson, &
Jul 17, 2015, 4:33 PM
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and Howard Field & Howard's Rock (would not recruit Black FB players).
I guess we become SC State #2......that has worked well! I was all for
moving the flag, but enough is enough!
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Game Changer [1977]
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Sorry but I really couldn't care less about this
Jul 17, 2015, 4:35 PM
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Its the name of a building. I don't understand why people get offended by the name of a building. I don't understand why people give a #### about them changing the name of a building. For at least next 15+ years its going to be known as Tillman anyway. Whether you're for or against it there are so many things more important than the name of a #### building.
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CU Guru [1806]
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You can rationalize this, but its about more than a building
Jul 17, 2015, 4:49 PM
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If it was about a building, then there wouldn't be graffiti on it and people vehemently opposed to the naming. Its about the principles behind the building. Most of these hot button issues are about more than the objects themselves. Stone Mountain is about more than a hunk of rock in ATL, the flag issue was about more than a piece of woven fabric.
You can choose to not have an opinion, but it is not logical to claim that the controversies are merely about mundane objects, and not about the underlying social/political/religious issue.
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Ring of Honor [21043]
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Message removed by Author
Jul 17, 2015, 4:55 PM
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Message removed by Author
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All-In [28802]
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You know it's "Alexander," right?***
Jul 17, 2015, 5:26 PM
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Game Changer [1977]
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Except that when you get down to it
Jul 17, 2015, 5:07 PM
[ in reply to You can rationalize this, but its about more than a building ] |
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The flag is a piece of cloth. It is not hurting anyone. It is not capable of hurting anyone. It offends people because they let it offend them. Logically people should be able to look at a flag and say "its a piece of cloth and isn't going to bother me because I'm not oversensitive and will not let it bother me".
The building is bricks, mortar, concrete, steel, etc... It is not hurting anyone. It is not capable of hurting anyone. It offends people because they let it offend them. Logically people should be able to look at a building and say "its a conglomeration of bricks, mortar, concrete, steel, etc... and isn't going to bother me because I'm not oversensitive and will not let it bother me".
Stone mountain is a carving into stone. It is not hurting anyone. It is not capable of hurting anyone. It offends people because they let it offend them. Logically people should be able to look at a building and say "its a carving into stone and isn't going to bother me because I'm not oversensitive and will not let it bother me".
I'm saying that the "principles behind" these objects are a direct result of the hypersensitivity of the country and should be a non-issue. Renaming a building isn't going to end racially biased police profiling. Sand blasting the sculptures isn't going to fix wealth disparity between races. Pulling a flag down isn't going to make anyone feel better. I mean look what happened immediately after the flag came down. They moved on to something else. There's always something else to be offended by. Playing the victim and being offended is chic. Our society has made it desirable because its a way to get what you want. I can't imagine how petty someone must be to go around and be offended by everything they dislike and "fight" for change in things that in the grand scheme of things don't address the problem and don't solve anything.
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CU Guru [1806]
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Re: Except that when you get down to it
Jul 17, 2015, 5:18 PM
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I agree with your sentiment... your elaboration helped me see your point more clearly.
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Game Changer [1640]
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Re: Except that when you get down to it
Jul 17, 2015, 5:19 PM
[ in reply to Except that when you get down to it ] |
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it is political correctness run wild along with those who will always be offended. Once they get concessions it will never be enough
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Varsity [230]
TigerPulse: 59%
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Re: Except that when you get down to it
Jul 17, 2015, 5:24 PM
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Who are they?? Black People??? I bet you wouldn't want a team with 100% white players in 2015.
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Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Grammar isn't your strong suit
Jul 17, 2015, 5:31 PM
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In that situation the word they would reference the noun phrase "those who will always be offended". Most in this group would include the highly progressive and liberal people of all ages, races, genders, etc... Your less progressive, more conservative type people are generally less hypersensitive. Unless you're talking about gay marriage that is.
It seems like you may belong in the group addressed by that "they".
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1st Rounder [645]
TigerPulse: 95%
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110%er [6938]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Clemson Sports Icon [55398]
TigerPulse: 100%
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CU Medallion [20887]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Do Clemson, Wshington & Lee, others need new names?
Jul 17, 2015, 4:55 PM
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All slaveholders. Revisionist history et al. Clemson just will not be Clemson with a new name.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
65
Posts: 64972
Joined: 2006
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easy...
Jul 17, 2015, 4:58 PM
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kindly leave W&L out of this.
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CU Guru [1071]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Thomas Clemson, George Washington, and Robert E. Lee
Jul 17, 2015, 5:18 PM
[ in reply to Do Clemson, Wshington & Lee, others need new names? ] |
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did not carry out a decade-long terrorist campaign that included political assassinations and summary executions. So, I really don't see that they had anything in common with Ben Tillman. The murder of state senator Simon Coker while he knelt in prayer by Tillman's henchmen as he watched approvingly in and of itself disqualifies Tillman from any position of honor in a civilized society. A much more minor point is that Tillman's actual role in the founding of the university had been vastly exaggerated by his son, who as a trustee in the 1940s convinced his colleagues on the Board to rename Old Main. By that time, Tillman had been dead for decades. There are literally a dozen other founding fathers of the university who played as or more significant roles. I am not one who favors whitewashing history, but that's a two-way street. Tillman wasn't just a segregationist (every white person in South Carolina was a segregationist to some extent during his lifetime), he was a terrorist and an assassin. If you tell the whole history of Tillman (and not just sanitized versions promoted by his descendants, his fellow terrorists and their descendants), nobody is going to name a building for that piece of human garbage.
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CU Medallion [20887]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2010
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In all sincerity, thanks for history lesson.
Jul 18, 2015, 4:28 PM
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By God, you have earned your moniker "Old School Tiger". Probably the best clarification and distinction I have heard between segregationist and assassin. Taking it a step further, did the Calhoun, Clemson, Lee and other families simply stand by and let Tillman do his bidding?
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Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
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Joined: 2006
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we kewl like dat...***
Jul 17, 2015, 5:47 PM
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Gridiron Giant [15498]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Washington and Lee
Jul 17, 2015, 6:14 PM
[ in reply to Washington and Lee ] |
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> would kindly tell them to shove it. Private school
> with a massive endowment and a very rich and
> conservative alumni base?
Ummm...see Washington and Lee University President Kenneth P. Ruscio's statement in announcing the removal of the Confederate Flag from the University; "“We acknowledge that this was a regrettable chapter in our history, and we must confront and try to understand this chapter,” Ruscio wrote. “Acknowledging that historical record — and acknowledging the contributions of those individuals — will require coming to terms with a part of our past that we wish had been different but that we cannot ignore.”
Rich and conservative alumni base understands you don't embrace 19th century ethics in the 21st century.
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Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Removing a flag and changing the name of a building
Jul 17, 2015, 6:41 PM
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named after someone who essentially ensured the school existed are two completely different things.
You're comparing apples to oranges.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
65
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Joined: 2006
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when asked if removing the name Lee from the university's
Jul 17, 2015, 7:08 PM
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was considered...
No. Among the many spurious rumors and claims perpetuated by the current controversy, this is the most absurd.
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CU Guru [1116]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Removing a flag and changing the name of a building
Jul 17, 2015, 9:04 PM
[ in reply to Removing a flag and changing the name of a building ] |
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All of this revisionist rewriting of history with have major consequences because things will escalate from here until the top finally blows off,and we will disintegrate from within so prepare to Lock and Load.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
65
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Joined: 2006
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no, they have not been removed from the university or from
Jul 17, 2015, 7:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Washington and Lee ] |
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lee chapel. the original flags that adorned the chapel have been returned by the museum they were on loan to. they are now on display across from the family tomb within Lee Chapel, the tomb that includes his father Light-horse Harry Lee, hero of the Revolution.
the flags in question were reproductions of several battle flags that stood next to the statue of General Lee, the one that depicts him asleep in his uniform.
Lee Chapel
The Assembly Hall
General Lee
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Gridiron Giant [15498]
TigerPulse: 100%
50
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Joined: 2014
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
65
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Joined: 2006
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well, now i know where you get your misinformation.
Jul 17, 2015, 10:17 PM
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as i said, Washington & Lee received the original flags back from the American Civil War Museum and will display them in Lee Chapel in the room across from the family tomb.
the picture i provided was of the flags in question which were replaced by reproductions in the mid '90s? those reproductions have been removed and the original battle flags are now back at Washington & Lee where they belong...with their general.
if you ever want to visit Washington & Lee, let me know. i'll be happy to show you around my alma mater, if not in person, i'll make sure to provide as good a must see as possible and make a call to Washington Hall to see about a tour.
it's the little things we do.
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Gridiron Giant [15498]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2014
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DSP Re: well, now i know where you get your misinformation.
Jul 19, 2015, 3:34 PM
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> as i said, Washington & Lee received the original
> flags back from the American Civil War Museum and
> will display them in Lee Chapel in the room across
> from the family tomb.
>
> the picture i provided was of the flags in question
> which were replaced by reproductions in the mid '90s?
> those reproductions have been removed and the
> e original battle flags are now back at Washington &
> Lee where they belong...with their general.
>
> if you ever want to visit Washington & Lee, let me
> know. i'll be happy to show you around my alma
> mater, if not in person, i'll make sure to provide as
> good a must see as possible and make a call to
> Washington Hall to see about a tour.
>
> it's the little things we do.
Well, I stand corrected DSP. I've like the Washington Post since Ben Bradlee helped bring down Richard 'I took a took a big ole dump on the constitution" Nixon. And that's a very kind offer, I'd love to see your alma mater. Actually I've studied Lee for many years (history major) a man of contradictions with an unbelievable dedication to chivalry and honor.
I don't care what Bob and Balm say about you, I think your great! 
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
65
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Joined: 2006
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if you read your "article" once more, you'll see the wording
Jul 19, 2015, 4:16 PM
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"promised to remove Confederate flags from the main chamber of its Lee Chapel" with the main chamber being the Assembly Hall.
the pics i provided of the Assembly Hall with the Recumbent Lee shown in the distance were what your article from those socialists from the post[ i had to] tried to describe...
these are of President Lee's office et al. more current in the Chapel[built 1867].
_____
as for bob & balm, i don't care what they say either... you know, just so we're clear.
if you've studied Lee you might be happy to know the doors to traveller's stall remain open to this day.
if you'd like, i'll send you something via tmail you might enjoy reading from W&L's President Ruscio, submitted January 2012.
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Gridiron Giant [15498]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2014
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Re: if you read your "article" once more, you'll see the wording
Jul 19, 2015, 4:40 PM
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Absolutely, thank you my friend.
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Orange Blooded [2582]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Burn the history books and abolish all history....
Jul 17, 2015, 5:01 PM
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That will purge us of all past actions by others.
Find a mixed race individual that represents all races and have that person cloned. When everyone else dies off, we can have one race that looks identical. Force everyone to think, dress and live the same way.
With that you achieve utopia, everyone is happy, and a population with no individuality. What could be more perfect?
.
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Oculus Spirit [39349]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Burn the history books and abolish all history....
Jul 17, 2015, 5:07 PM
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I like the sound of that . People with numbered shirts , tattooed UPC symbols on their eyelids ...all enjoying a tofu picnic on the grounds of University #23234
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
65
Posts: 64972
Joined: 2006
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Varsity [230]
TigerPulse: 59%
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Re: Burn the history books and abolish all history....
Jul 17, 2015, 5:08 PM
[ in reply to Burn the history books and abolish all history.... ] |
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You sound like an idiot. How about finding Osama Bin Laden's family members and invite them to attend Clemson University? Naw,....I didn't think so.
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CU Guru [1071]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Some history books should be burned - like those published
Jul 17, 2015, 5:25 PM
[ in reply to Burn the history books and abolish all history.... ] |
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in SC in the first half of the 20th century that completely whitewashed Tillman's role in numerous political assassinations and summary executions. It is hard to comprehend anyone who understands the real history of Ben Tillman as a political terrorist and murderer still wanting him to be honored by our university.
Message was edited by: OldSchool Tiger®
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Orange Blooded [2582]
TigerPulse: 91%
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I'm not condoning what Tillman did....
Jul 17, 2015, 5:52 PM
[ in reply to Burn the history books and abolish all history.... ] |
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but like it or not, we are a product of our history for better or for worse. The cliche...we either learn from it or repeat it.
The Civil War is a part of the fabric of the USA. The people of the CSA were citizens of the USA before the war and at the wars end were citizens of the USA again. You take the good and bad of our history the USA is still the greatest country of the world that gives it's citizens the greatest opportunity to succeed.
You cannot wipe out our southern history or our southern culture. If you do, the USA is not as great or diverse.
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CU Guru [1071]
TigerPulse: 94%
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yeah, but if you equate southern history or southern culture
Jul 17, 2015, 6:02 PM
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with Ben Tillman, you might as well equate it with the Ku Klux Klan. Yes, slavery was part of our history and culture. As was segregation. State-sanctioned murder? not nearly as much. To put it another way, there was almost no white opposition to slavery in SC in the 1850s. There was almost no white opposition to segregation in the 1950s. There was overwhelming white opposition to murder, and plenty of white opposition to Tillman (particularly in the Lowcountry). But, we shouldn't wipe out the story of Ben Tillman. We should tell it loudly and clearly. If we had done so while he was alive and in the decades after his death, no one would've thought to name Old Main after him in the 1940s.
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All-Time Great [88563]
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Varsity [230]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson renounces Ben Tillman, will create a task force
Jul 17, 2015, 5:06 PM
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It's interesting how some white Tigers fans want the best black players to attend Clemson University, but want those same Black Players to accept Tillman. It's quite possible that Tillman could have raped or killed one of Albert Huggins, Charone Peake, Tavien Feaster's or Mike Williams' ancestors but apparently that doesn't matter to some of Clemson University's white football fans because it wasn't their family.
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Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Nice Strawman
Jul 17, 2015, 5:24 PM
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To clarify though
1. No one here is condoning or celebrating the actions of Benjamin Tillman
2. No one here feels guilt or responsibility (rightfully so) for the actions of Benjamin Tillman
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Head Coach [958]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Thanks for posting your statement.
Jul 17, 2015, 5:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Campus Update: Clemson renounces Ben Tillman, will create a task force ] |
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They don't want to think about walking in someone else's shoes. Especially not a black person. But we all want the best football team. Have a few five star recruits reject Clemson because of the "name" of a building and see opinions change pretty quickly.
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Orange Elite [5304]
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Re: Thanks for posting your statement.
Jul 17, 2015, 5:56 PM
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Though in a case like Tillman, where there was more of a hate style approach and there is possibility of needing to remove due to the extreme hatred that can be seen in history, to say "walk in a black man's shoes" is a bit much, and could be seen "racist" in itself. So you think being black means that's the only life that has hardships? An asian can't have hardships? A hispanic can't? A Caucasian can't?
Here's the side that should also been seen. If the aim would be to remove the history of slavery/racism, shouldn't it also not be limited to Caucasian monuments/names and also to any that had to do with the fight for it...Like say MLK? Malcolm X? Abraham Lincoln? I mean, after all, if history of slavery is to be erased, shouldn't the history of the people that fought for the equality also be erased. After all, slavery never existed because buildings names were changed, flags were removed, soldiers dead carcases were dug up, and monuments were removed.
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Athletic Dir [1165]
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Mascot [15]
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All-American [556]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson renounces Ben Tillman, will create a task force
Jul 17, 2015, 5:09 PM
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First off, I'll always love my tigers. However, as much as I hate to do it, I'll immediately stop giving to IPTAY, quit donating my dollars to other university initiatives and quit getting season tickets if this proceeds. Flame away, I don't really give a $h|t. Enough is enough.
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Game Changer [1640]
TigerPulse: 100%
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unforseen consequencies
Jul 17, 2015, 5:17 PM
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They better give this second choice, it could end the "Chicken Curse"
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Walk-On [106]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson renounces Ben Tillman, will create a task force
Jul 17, 2015, 5:32 PM
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Its about time this thug was removed from any places of honor. His image has no place anywhere but in a history book. Hopefully his statues will be removed as well.
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All-Conference [442]
TigerPulse: 73%
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Washington and Jefferson owned slaves....
Jul 17, 2015, 6:41 PM
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... will there be calls next to tear down their monuments in DC? To remove their images and names from society? Approaching mass hysteria.
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CU Guru [1071]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Who did Washington and Jefferson murder? I slept through
Jul 18, 2015, 12:02 AM
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That 8:00. Tillman didn't own slaves, he was too young. He murdered an African American state senator - just like Dylan Roof. Washington and Jefferson have NOTHING to do with what a repulsive piece of human garbage that Ben Tillman was ...
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Oculus Spirit [40325]
TigerPulse: 100%
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We Could Rename Tillman Hall "Red Brick Hall" That Should
Jul 17, 2015, 7:34 PM
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Not Offend Anyone.
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TigerNet Elite [69883]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 41640
Joined: 2001
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As one who has Native American background
Jul 18, 2015, 9:05 AM
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I find it repugnant you are wanting to use 'red' in the name. That racist!!
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Tiger Cub [13]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson renounces Ben Tillman, will create a task force
Jul 17, 2015, 7:46 PM
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Clemson has MANY more outstanding individuals who represent it's history and should be honored. Don't forget history but be mindful of who you are choosing to let represent your present.
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CU Medallion [20860]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2009
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This is a fair response to the goings-on.
Jul 17, 2015, 8:55 PM
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Anyone serving on panels or groups to assess the landscape, including legislatures and executives in all fields, will have an opportunity to delve into the deep reaches of history - the good, the bad, and all the in between will find its way in.
Six months offers a long and reflective period. It won't be put forth until the state's legislature is back in session. Nothing wrong with taking some time out for discovery - we can all benefit from what might come up.
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CU Guru [1116]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson renounces Ben Tillman, will create a task force
Jul 17, 2015, 9:15 PM
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You can't revise history to satisfy your
own agenda. Some people will never be satisfied until the top finally blows off. Lock and load because that time is
finally in the not so distant future.
Many of my friends consider me the liberal. LOL!
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Ring of Honor [22122]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1998
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The way I read it - no one erasing history. To the contrary
Jul 17, 2015, 9:36 PM
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It seems there is a genuine interest in how to properly explain the complex nature of history. And how put our heritage in the proper context -then and now. Our values and social norms evolve making this a really difficult task. Seems like the BOT recognizes the difficulty and wants to engage all stakeholders.
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Freshman [8]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: The way I read it - no one erasing history. To the contrary
Jul 19, 2015, 9:39 AM
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Agreed. There will also need to be some proper context for John C. Calhoun, the foremost defender of slavery in the US Senate in the mid 1800s. (I have toured Fort Hill twice since I graduated, and there seems to be this "turn a blind eye" towards all that unpleasant reality.) Likewise, it will be hard not to put into context that Strom Thurmond Institute of Government and Public Affairs on campus.
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TigerNet Elite [69883]
TigerPulse: 100%
61
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Joined: 2001
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I renounce all race-baiters and find them
Jul 18, 2015, 9:04 AM
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morally and ethically repugnant!!!!!
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Tiger Spirit [9887]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 11165
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If BOT has already "renounced", why form a task force?....
Jul 18, 2015, 11:30 AM
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Seems they have already made up their minds. That being said, what changed so quickly from only a few months ago???? Charleston happened but has nothing to do with Tillman Hall.
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Orange Immortal [64624]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
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APM is on vacation but will speak on this soon.
Jul 18, 2015, 4:17 PM
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People finna take things too far.,,
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Orange Blooded [3826]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Real classy BOT's renounce the guy that in your words
Jul 18, 2015, 8:30 PM
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"Benjamin Tillman played a key role in the founding and early success of Clemson University".
Why were you not butt hurt years ago. Didn't seem to bother you when you accepted the position as board member. Better idea, if it bothers you so much, why not resign as a board member that way you could renounce the whole university and have a clear conscience. Great job following the PC BS bandwagon and dividing the supporters of Clemson.
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Varsity [238]
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Good news is, nothing will be done. If it's anything like
Jul 19, 2015, 12:19 PM
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my office, whenever a "task force" is created, nothing tangible will actually be accomplished.
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All-TigerNet [5991]
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Awesome! Time to rename it back to Old Main***
Jul 21, 2015, 12:55 PM
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