|
Replies: 38
| visibility 1
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
Let's fix it
May 26, 2022, 8:22 AM
|
|
1. Universal background checks for ALL purchases including private purchases. Any weapon not registered and the person in possession of the weapon not designated a background check is a felony with a minimum 5 years in federal prison.
2. Increase mental health support nationwide.
3. Red flag laws
4. You can keep/purchase an AR but you have to be federally licensed to own it. Anybody owning one without the license is a felony with a minimum of 10 years incarcerated.
5. Ban magazines over 10 rounds
6. Increase the age to own any weapon to 25
7. If you sell a weapon used in a crime without signed purchase documentation and reference number to a criminal background check, you are charged with accessory to that crime. This includes gun businesses
8. If your child uses your weapon to commit a crime, you are charged with accessory to that crime.
Democrats get what they want: Gun control
Republicans get what they want: Responsibility and a booming prison system
|
|
|
|
 |
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
And provide discounted safes for weapons
May 26, 2022, 8:23 AM
|
|
so nobody has an excuse not to have their guns locked away where people can't get to them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12999]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14018
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: Let's fix it
May 26, 2022, 8:26 AM
|
|
good thing I can swap mags in <1 second. Going to come in handy for "getting" gas by the end of the year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
When do you counter attack an active shooter?
May 26, 2022, 8:29 AM
|
|
while they are shooting or while they are reloading?
Reloading 3 times in 10 seconds vs. reloading once in 10 seconds. Which has more chances of neutralizing the threat?
And yes that's what we are taught. Neutralize if it's not pointing in your direction, or wait until the mag drops
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12999]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14018
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: When do you counter attack an active shooter?
May 26, 2022, 8:41 AM
|
|
I'm not an 18 y/o that learned to shoot on a video game. I reload under cover/concealment.
Seriously though, that is good training for an active shooter as they are shooting out of emotion/rage/whatever, and rarely thinking of self-preservation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
Tunnel vision is a ##### when you're trying to kill
May 26, 2022, 8:44 AM
|
|
as many people as possible
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Well...
May 26, 2022, 8:31 AM
|
|
1. How does this stop a kid from getting his parent's gun that was purchased legally through this method?
2. But many teens aren't diagnosed with any issues or show any real signs.
3. Isn't this usually used in cases of an elderly person or someone who will likely cause harm to themselves before committing a mass shooting?
4. How do we really enforce that last part BEFORE a school shooting happens?
5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the VT shooter have 10-round magazines in the pistols he used?
6. Again, this won't stop kids from getting their hands on parents' guns or even parents who scoff at this law and give them the guns.
7. I can get behind this, but it still won't stop shootings with legal firearms.
8. I can definitely get behind this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
Nothing we do will STOP this. But we can definitely
May 26, 2022, 8:37 AM
|
|
decrease frequency. Especially when we make examples of parents who say #### the law and give their kids access to these weapons.
When a few parents go to jail for decades, it will reduce incidences.
But your list makes it seem like "well that won't completely stop it, so what's the point"
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Nothing we do will STOP this. But we can definitely
May 26, 2022, 8:43 AM
|
|
When a few parents go to jail for decades, it will reduce incidences.
I have doubts it will. Too many people out there scoff at ANY sort of gun law. Even gun sellers. We all know them. You probably have friends who do. I do. I promise, they are not going to change their ways if someone else gets busted. They're going to say, "That's BS" and just try something else/think it won't happen to them.
If sending those parents to jail was a deterrent to others, we'd also have people stop committing murder out of fear of prison or the chair.
We have to find a way to change a cultural problem in America to stop this, but ###### if I know how to do that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
There's nothing we can do to STOP it
May 26, 2022, 8:47 AM
|
|
and that's evident by these countries that have extreme gun laws still have mass attacks (usually with machetes/knives).
However, the death rate in those attacks is considerably less than what we face in our mass killings in this country.
So no, nothing we do will ever STOP it. But what can we do to significantly reduce these incidences.
Because franky, no other country on earth deals with this in the frequency we in the US do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Maybe you're right
May 26, 2022, 8:50 AM
|
|
But I still think we, America, have some other cultural problem that other nations don't. Maybe it's just that violence has been ingrained in our nature; we were born from it, we've celebrated it as a solution to problems, we glorify it in all mediums.
We also don't address the bigger elephant in the room that the politicians--both Dems and Pubs--know. We have a culture so steeped in gun adoration that for some, it's a religion. And you know what people are willing to do if you start coming after their religion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
I agree. It is definitely a cultural issue
May 26, 2022, 8:53 AM
|
|
that will take a massive reset for this population.
But with how many people still thinking Trump was cheated in the election (the same population that owns the majority of the weapons in this country), which is more likely:
1. A cultural reset where we as a nation decide that we are the problem and make tangible steps to fix
or
2. enact stricter gun laws to reduce frequency of mass killings
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Which is more likely to happen? #2 by far
May 26, 2022, 9:01 AM
|
|
But I also--and I think you do, too--know which one is going to have more disastrous results across the board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
I agree. The Muh Freedumbs crowd is going to throw
May 26, 2022, 9:02 AM
|
|
a #### fit again like Jan 6th
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97657]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64802
Joined: 7/13/02
|
I've had "access" to guns since I was 5 years old
May 26, 2022, 8:56 AM
[ in reply to Nothing we do will STOP this. But we can definitely ] |
|
When my dad taught me to shoot a .22 rifle. Always had access really my whole life. Never thought of shooting up a school, or any person. Went hunting with friends from 4th grade on. Grabbed a gun and went. Never crossed my mind to shoot up my school, or anyone. In high school, usually 3-5 people in first period class were dressed in cammo from duck hunting that morning. They had guns in their cars. Everyone knew. I had a friend who got a new over/under 12ga for Christmas. One morning before class he was showing me his new Browning in the school parking lot. Biology teacher came up and we handed the gun to him. He looked it over, broke the barrels open and looked down them into the sun, and said it was a very nice clean gun and friend explained how he just got it for Christmas and used it duck hunting before school. Put it back in his car and we all went to class. Just not an issue.
I know literally dozens of parents who you say should be thrown in jail by your standards. Bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, who were parents of children who brought guns to school, and NOTHING EVER HAPPENED. They used them for hunting before school. A few kept pistols in their glove box, but most guns on school property were from morning hunts.
Now the guns haven't changed much since the early 1990's. AR-15 is essentially the same as it was then. Shotguns, pistols, the guns are essentially the same guns. It's the people who have changed since the early 90's. Same high school today - Immediate expulsion now for having any firearm on campus, and probably an arrest. And I would argue my same high school was SAFER in 1992 than it is in 2022. I know on any given day, if someone ever came into our highschool shooting people, no less than 10 kids would have run to their cars, and it would have ended QUICKLY.
I would argue the adult's REACTION to guns in schools, drives more kids to do these things, if the truth be known. It's the quiet but secretly narcissistic kid who shoots the place up, and he does it because he knows he will be famous. He also knows he will be dead, but he'd probably have ended up committing suicide anyway, why not get famous? This is what is happening and it's a problem with kids, and more importantly, it's a problem with adults. You see kids do stupid stuff all the time on social media for fame and notoriety. Sometimes they end up dying doing stupid stuff to attract likes/views/subscribers. And kids are raised to see this as something to strive for. It's a much broader problem really.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
Re: I've had "access" to guns since I was 5 years old
May 26, 2022, 9:01 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13605]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12896
Joined: 8/10/13
|
Re: I've had "access" to guns since I was 5 years old
May 26, 2022, 9:02 AM
[ in reply to I've had "access" to guns since I was 5 years old ] |
|
I'm old enough to remember when high schoolers had a gun rack with guns in their truck and parked on school property.
It is odd that there wasn't very many school shootings in those days. (At least not to the extent of today)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97657]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64802
Joined: 7/13/02
|
It's not odd. All you have to do is bring a gun to school
May 26, 2022, 9:14 AM
|
|
And you make the local news. Instantly famous. Everyone knows you. Shoot up the place and kill people, and you're famous forever. Nationwide everyone knows your name. There have always been kids starved for attention. But the difference is today there are MANY avenues for those attention-starved kids to get...attention. And to them it doesn't matter if it's a sex video, shooting up the school, doing dangerous stunts on Youtube or TikTok, or whatever, they have so many ways to get noticed, and that desire for attention/fame is what's driving most of this. Is my guess.
Unintended consequences of the internet and social media. And even my own kids today, I explain to them being a social media influencer isn't a career, they beg to differ. They watch videos on youtube for hours, of other kids doing things to get attention. Then they they get paid to do that, and that's what they want to do. I'm telling them no, that's not a solid CAREER. Bottom line, you're not helping other people by posting attention seeking videos on social media. But it's rewarded, as long as it's legal. Get those subscribers, get people watching, whatever your methods, and you get paid. Facebook, they sell ads and make billions on the fact that they facilitate the narcissism in people who create content to seek views and attract subscribers. Facebook, YouTube, they PAY KIDS who attract views, clicks, and have subscribers. That's ad revenue for them and they cut a share to the content creator. Sometimes that's parkour. Sometimes other things, but it's essentially monetizing narcissism, and rewarding it.
Narcissism has never been more lucrative than today, in the US. That's a big problem IMO
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6297
Joined: 12/24/15
|
Re: I've had "access" to guns since I was 5 years old
May 26, 2022, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to I've had "access" to guns since I was 5 years old ] |
|
Amen. Had the same experiences in High School in the 70's. There were more than a few of us who had guns in our vehicles. I too showed a coach/teacher my shotgun one day. No problem. Way more guys carried pocket knives than had guns.
Yet, there was not a single stabbing or even brandishing of a knife in my 4 years in High School.
Our society has changed where there is increasingly little respect for authority, others or for even the individual looking themselves in the mirror.
While I do think there needs to be a dialogue on ways to reduce gun violence, more importantly we need to address root causes of the lack of respect for others and those who seemingly have no respect for life itself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26468]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20617
Joined: 9/2/02
|
#8 would put 50% of the population of Chicago in jail***
May 26, 2022, 8:35 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
Which I'm sure you're for***
May 26, 2022, 8:37 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26468]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20617
Joined: 9/2/02
|
I just assumed lefties were opposed to mass incarceration
May 26, 2022, 8:39 AM
|
|
based on Liberal DA's bouncing criminals as soon as they are arrested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
We will give yall mass incarcerations if it means
May 26, 2022, 8:41 AM
|
|
we severely reduce mass shootings with gun control.
Deal?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26468]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20617
Joined: 9/2/02
|
Ill take that in a heartbeat ... do you speak for all your
May 26, 2022, 8:46 AM
|
|
peeps ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
I'll check with the gang
May 26, 2022, 8:48 AM
|
|
What you think?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82981]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80116
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Could support all except 6 and 8. I could support age 21.***
May 26, 2022, 8:40 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8885]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9760
Joined: 4/27/13
|
Re: Let's fix it
May 26, 2022, 8:51 AM
|
|
suddenly, the abortionist is against murdering children
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46795]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30710
Joined: 8/11/15
|
And as usual, the ones screaming to protect unborn fetuses
May 26, 2022, 8:54 AM
|
|
don't give a #### about killing children outside the womb as long as they get to cling to muh guns
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43991]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32924
Joined: 2/22/03
|
You're right, there are a bunch of hypocrites on both sides.
Jun 3, 2022, 3:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Let's fix it ] |
|
Very few people are consistent when it comes to protecting life across the board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [47652]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 21035
Joined: 12/22/98
|
More laws, more government.
May 26, 2022, 9:13 AM
|
|
Spoken like a true dem/liberal. How's that been working out for everyone?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26886]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15591
Joined: 1/26/22
|
Here is my compromise response:
May 26, 2022, 9:21 AM
|
|
1. Universal background checks for ALL purchases including private purchases. Any weapon not registered and the person in possession of the weapon not designated a background check is a felony with a minimum 5 years in federal prison.
Deal. But the NICS system must be adequately funded/staffed to ensure the added burden of servicing private sales do not measurably slow down turn around.
2. Increase mental health support nationwide.
Deal.
3. Red flag laws
Deal. But they must be narrowly tailored and provide a process for quick restoration of due process for those served with one. A hearing in front of a judge to restore their rights should happen within days, or a week.
4. You can keep/purchase an AR but you have to be federally licensed to own it. Anybody owning one without the license is a felony with a minimum of 10 years incarcerated.
Non-starter. The burden it creates on law-abiding citizens and the impact on the Second Amendment cannot be justified with data-backed public good.
5. Ban magazines over 10 rounds
Non-starter. The burden it creates on law-abiding citizens and the impact on the Second Amendment cannot be justified with data-backed public good.
6. Increase the age to own any weapon to 25
Compromise deal. Move the age to 21, same as it is for handguns.
7. If you sell a weapon used in a crime without signed purchase documentation and reference number to a criminal background check, you are charged with accessory to that crime. This includes gun businesses
Compromise deal. There should be stronger civil penalties for failing to report lost/stolen firearms. And, I could be open to criminal charges for intentionally evading background check requirements that are in-line with what is currently on the books, but laws already exist that pertain to straw sales, which is what I think you're mostly getting at here. EDIT: Also no need to keep documentation. This can all be handled through FFL transfers.
8. If your child uses your weapon to commit a crime, you are charged with accessory to that crime.
More negotiating is needed. We can't hold people criminally responsible for the actions of their child unless there was some crime committed by the parents in the process (e.g. straw sales). Failing to secure a firearm could maybe be a crime, but I don't like it and it would be difficult to prove. This is better served with civil liability, which I suspect is already the case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8885]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9760
Joined: 4/27/13
|
Re: Let's fix it
May 26, 2022, 9:25 AM
|
|
this whole thread makes a person feel like they need guns to defend themselves from a tyrannical government
FB coach is selling guns
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12558]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6297
Joined: 12/24/15
|
Re: Let's fix it
May 26, 2022, 9:25 AM
|
|
1-ok with background checks at gun shows, criminals would not be deterred from transferring guns by a law with private sales.
2-Good with more $ for Mental Health
3-Red flag laws would need to be very carefully written to avoid disenfranchising those that are depressed or on anti depressive meds. Additionally, somebody with a vendetta against a person could potentially restrict a person's right to bear arms. How would any claims be vetted?
4-No. There are an estimated 15 million AR 15's in the US. How many are used in crimes or murders? There are more powerful guns and more effective assault weapons in close quarters. A pump shotgun with an open choke and small buckshot is about as potent a room cleaner as there comes. Are you coming after shotguns too?
5-Ambivalent over the magazine limit to 10 rounds, but could live with it.
6-Hell no! So soldiers well under age 25 can be sent to war, potentially be maimed or killed, but can't buy a weapon to protect their family, hunt with or shoot at targets or be prepared to take on an over reaching government perhaps one day??? Roger Moore has come out for repealing the Second Amendment. As a FL politician said, go ahead and try that and folks will find out what the Second Amendment is for.
7--would this have prevented Uvalde or Sandy Hook? No.
8--No. What if your child gets drunk and splatters another family on the highway? If you knowingly let your kid drive drunk or knowingly let a known and documented mentally disturbed kid have a gun, ok. Otherwise, parents can't control what their children do 24/7.
The real problem in gaining real gun control is the Second Amendment and for that I am grateful. There are some things that can be done, but the bigger problem is a society where kids are born right and left without two parents in the home. It's such a quaint concept, but we are reaping the sorrow of not having
two strong parents in the home to instill discipline, respect for others and recognize when a kid is sick/evil. I would submit a 66 yr old grandma is not usually the best to carry out those tasks.
This is terrible what has happened, but this type of carnage goes on on a weekly basis in Chicago, almost always without so called assault weapons. Hand guns kill far more people than long rifles.
There are no simple solutions, but I welcome the dialogue. Knee jerk answers are rarely useful ones though, but rest assured politicians will be politicians and probably nothing useful will come of this tragedy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: Let's fix it
May 26, 2022, 9:40 AM
|
|
#6. Can a 24 year old grown man go hunting with his shotgun or rifle??
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64837]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22718
Joined: 9/27/04
|
only if his daddy escorts him
May 26, 2022, 9:59 AM
|
|
 I wondered the same thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64837]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22718
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Re: Let's fix it
May 26, 2022, 9:58 AM
|
|
1. Universal background checks for ALL purchases including private purchases. Any weapon not registered and the person in possession of the weapon not designated a background check is a felony with a minimum 5 years in federal prison.
**********background checks for all purchases. Sounds good. National gun registry... I don't like it, personally, but it would probably help somewhat.
2. Increase mental health support nationwide.
***********yes, but how? what? how much $$$? Needs way more details.********
3. Red flag laws
**********I don't like it personally, but it would probably help somewhat.
4. You can keep/purchase an AR but you have to be federally licensed to own it. Anybody owning one without the license is a felony with a minimum of 10 years incarcerated.
*********** Well if we follow your lead and go with item 1 (national gun registry), then how would that vary from this federal license?
5. Ban magazines over 10 rounds
*********** This isn't low hanging fruit... it would have virtually zero effect on anything, and I don't like it - but fine whatever.
6. Increase the age to own any weapon to 25
*********** I'm sorta okay with this one. Nearly all of these school shootings, and probably inner city shootings and all that involve people under 25. Plus I'm already over 25. How would that interfere with hunting? Would you still send kids overseas to fight wars for us at age 17/18, but not let them own a gun for 7 more years? How do you justify that?
7. If you sell a weapon used in a crime without signed purchase documentation and reference number to a criminal background check, you are charged with accessory to that crime. This includes gun businesses
****** sure no problem with that.
8. If your child uses your weapon to commit a crime, you are charged with accessory to that crime.
*************sure, no problem with that. Does this include only the gun owner, or both parents? what if one parent is astranged?
Democrats get what they want: Gun control
Republicans get what they want: Responsibility and a booming prison system
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5641]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12116
Joined: 9/28/08
|
Re: Let's fix it
May 26, 2022, 11:39 AM
|
|
1. Universal background checks for ALL purchases including private purchases. Any weapon not registered and the person in possession of the weapon not designated a background check is a felony with a minimum 5 years in federal prison.
Registering all weapons is a new thing. The left would never support this because they will claim it is biased against the poor who cannot afford to register their current weapons or do not know they need to be registered. Indeed, this would be tons of people in jail for *not* committing a violent crime. Will never happen.
2. Increase mental health support nationwide.
Good idea. The devil is in the details.
3. Red flag laws
The left hates and distrusts cops already. How is this going to fly with those people? IMO these types of things might be okay "in theory" but implementation is a problem.
4. You can keep/purchase an AR but you have to be federally licensed to own it. Anybody owning one without the license is a felony with a minimum of 10 years incarcerated.
Defining AR is non-trivial. See response to 1.
5. Ban magazines over 10 rounds
Eh. Might be doable, but the real effect on people willing to shoot other people is questionable.
6. Increase the age to own any weapon to 25
Does own mean buy? Can an 18 year old go hunting with a gun?
7. If you sell a weapon used in a crime without signed purchase documentation and reference number to a criminal background check, you are charged with accessory to that crime. This includes gun businesses
This one might be close to achievable.
8. If your child uses your weapon to commit a crime, you are charged with accessory to that crime.
Parents of kids that are just wild/crazy have to have an out.
------------------------
For any of these ideas a litmus test should be to take the last X number of mass shootings (and maybe other types of shootings) and ask how this law will change the outcome?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [43991]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32924
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I agree, except I would also make ARs illegal to purchase.***
Jun 3, 2022, 3:06 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21858]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8554
Joined: 9/11/11
|
Y'all are making this too complicated.
Jun 3, 2022, 3:12 PM
|
|
easy fix. raise prices.
quickest way to eliminate buyers of a product? make that product too costly to own.
how many people would go buy a pistol if that pistol costs $5k instead of $500?
How many people would purchase 1,000 rounds of ammo if 9mm went from ~$0.37 to $37 / round? $50 / round?
full disclosure, I vehemently oppose this position...but it'd actually work.
this is you blue smurfs playbook for green energy right? make fossil fuels so expensive people go buy a tesla? use the same logic here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 38
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
