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Replies: 55
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Hall of Famer [8153]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 8:43 AM
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All signs point to UGA.... Caldwell loses another battle to Pittman.
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Ultimate Tiger [33632]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 8:45 AM
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All signs point to UGA.... Caldwell loses another battle to Bagman.
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Hall of Famer [8153]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 8:46 AM
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The cold, green truth.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb ] |
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Claiming that every recruit that doesn’t choose Clemson is bought sounds awfully similar to what coots say when a recruit picks Clemson.
By all accounts Webb comes from a good family and there’s no evidence of foul play so let’s be careful in automatically assuming a recruit from AL that we were a long shot to land in the first place took money because he didn’t choose Clemson.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Hope all of these OL are gone by the time we play them
Dec 5, 2018, 8:46 AM
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Until then, beat the coots!
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Orange Phenom [15028]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Joined: 1998
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 8:48 AM
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MAKES IT A LITTLE EASIER FOR THE DAWGS WHEN THEY CAN LIVE IN THE DARK GRAY. MAYBE WEBB CAN SPEND TIME WITH CADE MAYES ON THE HUNTING PROPERTY DOWN THERE HIS PARENTS WERE GIVEN.
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National Champion [7998]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 9:07 AM
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i hear bagman blah blah blah but what is it. I'd imagine the bagman would've been found out by now. Is it just that OL coach? Our OL coach? I mean aren't we 0-fer against UGA in OL recruiting? They get em all. And the most you can get at UGA is a conference division championship trophy. Is it our scheme that doesn't exactly translate to the NFL for O-lineman? I'm assuming its that but i've been wondering what the heck they get these kids to buy into at UGA over Clemson. I mean its always UGA that gets the lineman. They'll be head over heels for Clemson for months and then just change it up right at the end for UGA. Its just puzzling. Been like this for years.
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Game Day Hero [4405]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 9:14 AM
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It’s certainly disturbing how terribly our o line recruiting is going. We’re going to be left grasping for the leftovers again this year. Putnam is a must win for us but beyond him nothing looks even slightly promising at this point. A Jackson carman-like late win would sure be nice
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Orange Blooded [2481]
TigerPulse: 100%
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We have 3 committed for 2020 I think***
Dec 5, 2018, 9:17 AM
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Game Day Hero [4405]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We have 3 committed for 2020 I think***
Dec 5, 2018, 9:19 AM
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We’re definitely doing better for 2020 no doubt. But we’re sitting on 1 when we truly need 4-5 this year and with no big fish seemingly left (except Putnam) assuming no major surprises are out there. I don’t know if it’s Caldwell or what but we’ve gotta step it up
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We have 3 committed for 2020 I think***
Dec 5, 2018, 9:33 AM
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We are losing 2 offensive linemen who contribute on the field. Hopefully none of the juniors will leave early. I haven't heard that any will, but you never know.
Why exactly do we need 4-5 good ones to fill those 2 spots?
We are junior heavy on the o-line which is why we are expected to sign 4 or 5 in 2020. We already have 3 committed and one is top 5 at his position.
If we don't have any more o-linemen commit then we are 1 short of filling our losses. That's not a good thing, but it certainly won't shut down the program.
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Orange Blooded [2340]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We have 3 committed for 2020 I think***
Dec 5, 2018, 2:06 PM
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The issue isn't that we aren't replacing our losses this year. The problem is that we only recruited two last year so if you combine our low number of OL recruits over the past two recruiting cycles it could potentially leave us short in the 2020 and 2021 seasons given that most OL recruits tend to redshirt in their first year.
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Game Day Hero [4405]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: We have 3 committed for 2020 I think***
Dec 5, 2018, 9:19 AM
[ in reply to We have 3 committed for 2020 I think*** ] |
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We’re definitely doing better for 2020 no doubt. But we’re sitting on 1 when we truly need 4-5 this year and with no big fish seemingly left (except Putnam) assuming no major surprises are out there. I don’t know if it’s Caldwell or what but we’ve gotta step it up
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National Champion [7945]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 9:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: can anyone properly diagnose this? ] |
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Getting Putnam is a long shot. No CBs to us at 247, not even among Clemson people.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2012
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Disturbed? Really?
Dec 5, 2018, 11:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: can anyone properly diagnose this? ] |
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Disturbed that we couldn't pull a 5* OL out of Alabama and away from Saban/UGA?
Get a grip on reality...this was always a long shot and the fact that Webb even gave us this much of a shot is telling as to how far we have come
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Ultimate Tiger [33632]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Game Day Hero [4405]
TigerPulse: 100%
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That truly was remarkable wasn’t it?
Dec 5, 2018, 9:21 AM
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I still cannot believe that happened, despite the fact that I live in the atl area and am constantly surrounded by those mouth breathers
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: That truly was remarkable wasn’t it?
Dec 5, 2018, 9:56 AM
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Wait, what happened exactly?
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Rival Killer [3078]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Hall of Famer [8153]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 9:17 AM
[ in reply to can anyone properly diagnose this? ] |
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at recruiting and coaching OLmen. It is simple as that. This is the truth of the matter. No matter if you don't want to hear it or believe it. There's no way to sugarcoat it.
He is too old to relate to young OLmen. He hasn't had any drafted while the current recruits were in high school. There is a reason that when we want to go after a big-time OLman, we send Bates or Dabo, and not the actual guy coaching them. That's an awful look.
We landed 5* Hyatt because he was a legacy and Caldwell has not been able to coach him into being a top-2 round OT.
Our OL has been beaten consistently by many less-talented teams in the last few years. NC St, Syracuse, VT, etc. When was the last time you saw UGA's or Bama's OL get pushed around by a 3* DL?
Best is the Standard at Clemson. Caldwell simply is not the best that we can do. It's far past time for a change to be made.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 9:41 AM
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You are joking right?
How can you claim we can't get any good o-linemen, citing Hyatt only being a legacy, without making up some excuse why we were able to land Jackson Carmen?
Also what is this about our guys constantly getting pushed around? You mean the 2 sacks we have given up in the last 6 games?
NC State pushed us around to 41 points for our offense.
Syracuse pushed us around for over 300 yards rushing with a 3rd string QB who they didn't respect as a passer.
We didn't even play VT this year but last year the game was put away early and we shut it down and went into "safe mode" on offense like we did many times last year.
I get that o-line may be our weakest recruited position but at least say things that are true when you call them weaker than other Tigers surrounding them.
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Hall of Famer [8153]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 9:52 AM
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It was an absolute miracle that we landed Carman. Also, it was only because Dabo took over his recruitment personally, which is EXACTLY what I've stated previously. Landed Carman had nothing to do with Caldwell.
My references to teams that pushed us around were over the last few years, not just this year. And there has been many more than that. I also didn't mention that our OL was abused by Alabama last season.
Some of the OL woes of last season can be credited to KB. And some of the OL success this season can be credited to Trevor, as he is putting them in a better position pre-snap, stretching the field, and getting the ball out of his hands quicker.
However, there is an obvious difference between our OL recruiting and every other position. What would be your explanation?
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 10:00 AM
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First, doesn't Dabo basically take over with all major recruits who come down to the wire? Ignoring the groundwork before Dabo stepped in is an oversight.
Also citing o-line issues from several seasons back ignores the progress that has been made.
The comparison between QBs is important. If you watch our blocking scheme, we have moved on from trying to drive guys backward because of the RPOs. We now try to create seems and quick holes. This is why Bryant made the o-line look bad because he did not make quick reads and decisions. Many times there were holes there that were gone before the ball got there.
Finally, the difference is in post-Clemson production. You can recruit good o-linemen to play for good programs. We do that well. Elite o-linemen want to be sold on an NFL future. It is the same at every position, but we can point to NFL guys at every other position. Opposing programs currently hold that difference over us. We desperately need Hyatt and a few others to get a good draft position and perform well at the next level to take the next step in o-line recruiting. Right now we recruit well but not at an elite level.
There is a step to be made but it isn't dreadful right now.
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Hall of Famer [8153]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 10:08 AM
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So you agree a step needs to be made? So what do you think needs to be done to make that step?
Also, it is not likely that Hyatt is drafted highly. He is probably a round 3 prospect as things stand today. Carman luckily has the physical tools to develop into a 1st-round LT. But if we don't keep him healthy, it is going to be rough.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 10:11 AM
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3rd round is an upgrade. I think the next step can't be made until we get some NFL success. Hopefully Cervenka, Simpson, or others can add to what Hyatt may be able to start.
It's not like we are trying to get to average in o-line recruiting. We are trying to beat elite teams for elite recruits. It's not an easy step to take.
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Letterman [151]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 6:36 PM
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Comparison - using the 247 composite ranking for OL this is how the Tigers stack up (current rosters only)
Clemson
2 5* / 3 4* / 9 3*
Bama
2 5* / 12 4* / 2 3*
Georgia
3 5* / 8 4* / 3 3*
Ohio St
2 5* / 8 4* / 4 3*
ND
1 5* / 7 4* / 5 3*
Sooners
1 5* / 9 4* / 6 3*
LSU
0 5* / 6 4* / 6 3*
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Orange Phenom [15028]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Joined: 1998
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 10:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: Caldwell is subpar ] |
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GOSH, HOW DID WE EVER AVERAGE 50 A GAME 500 PLUS YARDS A GAME AND WIN 13 GAMES SO FAR WITH THE SH!TTY LINEMEN WE HAVE. AND SOMEHOW WE HAVE GONE 53-4 WITH THESE SAME BOTTOM FEEDERS. SMFH AT SOME OF YOU GOOBERS.
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All-Pro [697]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 6:45 PM
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A lot of the rushing production has been more on the backs than the line, which is why we've still struggled to run against better defenses this season. We got helped out by playing some pretty terrible defenses too.
Our whole offensive line philosophy is just confusing. Just about every game there tends to be instances when lineman just stand around and watch a pile form around a back. We need more aggression to go over and push those piles.
It also tends to feel like we're hamstringing ourselves by refusing to move guys from one side to the other. If the players have a hard time mirroring that's one thing but there were game where we could have gotten a lift out of Carman and/or Bockhorst getting some run on the right side.
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Orange Phenom [15028]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Joined: 1998
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to Caldwell is subpar ] |
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UH JACKSON CARMEN COMES TO MIND. ROBBIE IS ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTED OLINE COACHES IN AMERICA.
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1st Rounder [610]
TigerPulse: 87%
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Re: Caldwell is subpar
Dec 5, 2018, 10:07 AM
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Is your keyboard stuck on all caps or seomthing?
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Asst Coach [844]
TigerPulse: 96%
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13 - 0. I think we're doing darn good on all fronts.
Dec 5, 2018, 10:00 AM
[ in reply to Caldwell is subpar ] |
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Punting may be a little shakey.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You don’t recruit OL for this year or next year
Dec 5, 2018, 10:29 AM
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You recruit OL for 2-3 years down the road when they’re actually ready to contribute. So while 13-0 this year is awesome, this conversation is about 2020 and beyond and making sure we’re able to stay at the level we’re currently at.
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Orange Phenom [15028]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Joined: 1998
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Re: can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 9:40 AM
[ in reply to can anyone properly diagnose this? ] |
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NOTHING TO DIAGNOSE. THEY ARE CHEATING AND PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE KNOWS IT. EVEN THE NCAA. NOW WILL THEY GET BUSTED, WHO KNOWS
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1st Rounder [610]
TigerPulse: 87%
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Re: can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 10:11 AM
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My team didn’t get x player, so the other team must be cheating!!
You don’t think those accusations were made against Clemson when they pull 2 of the top 3 players last year, neither being from South Carolina?
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Orange Phenom [15028]
TigerPulse: 82%
49
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Joined: 1998
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Re: can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 10:20 AM
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DUDE YOU CAN BELIEVE IT OR NOT. I COULD CARE LESS. YOU DONT SEE ME ACCUSING BAMA OR OHIO ST OR OK OF CHEATING. THEY ARE CHEATING. SIMPLE AS THAT.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: can anyone properly diagnose this? ] |
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1 of those players was from South Carolina. He simply went to high school out of state for his senior year.
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Standout [240]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 1:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: can anyone properly diagnose this? ] |
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Trevor committed to Clemson in 2016 and XT is from SC so that's not a stretch. Clemson has roads in the state of Georgia and how Deshaun was from the area. Add to the fact that at the time UGA had Eason who was a Soph and Fromm a FR and they began to recruit Fields helped Clemson keep him. At that same time...while we had several QB's none were showing the promise that would let someone believe they would have a stranglehold on the QB job.
Again...XT was from SC not FL and with those state of Florida teams being down and Clemson playing in the post season for the past 3 year...why would he not want to come to Clemson.
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Rival Killer [3078]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Oculus Spirit [39352]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: can anyone properly diagnose this?
Dec 5, 2018, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to can anyone properly diagnose this? ] |
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They can have their OL gets so long as they keep sacrificing the top QB in the nation trend .
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Game Day Hero [4405]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Hopefully the ncaa will come calling
Dec 5, 2018, 9:09 AM
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Much like they did with ole miss a few years after high freeze recruited similarly, and these victories in recruiting they’re having will be proven pyrrhic at best
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Orange Phenom [15028]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Hopefully the ncaa will come calling
Dec 5, 2018, 10:21 AM
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THE NCAA IS AWARE.
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Orange Blooded [2238]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 9:24 AM
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What happened? I looked online and don’t see any updates to back that up.
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Hall of Famer [8153]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 9:26 AM
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Dabo is no longer visiting and has told coaches that it is UGA. Even Bama now believes it is UGA.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 9:28 AM
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Several huge misses this cycle and assuming we don’t land Putnam, it’ll basically be 0-fer for our major targets. Yes 2020 it’s looking better but we needed players in this class because the depth falls off in 2020 and you don’t want to be relying on a bunch of true freshmen to anchor your line.
Webb was always a long shot but it’s still a kick where the sun don’t shine.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 9:43 AM
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You can't add depth before there are scholarships available. At most we were going to take 2 or 3 o-linemen this class.
It would hardly be good roster management to have 20 linemen on scholarship just so we don't have to play a freshman the next season.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 9:50 AM
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It would hardly be good roster management to sign 2 OL in one class then follow it up with 1 OL in then next but that’s exactly what we’re doing.
You don’t sign OL for the year that you need them, you sign them 2 years before so they have time to develop into college-ready OL.
You sign a bare minimum 3 OL every year. Recommended at least 4. The math isn’t that hard.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 10:02 AM
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4 per year leads to approximately 18 on scholarship due to the fact that half of our incoming o-linemen redshirt.
I haven't looked at the exact numbers. How far short of that will we be next season?
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Hall of Famer [8153]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 10:10 AM
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We have 14 on the roster. We have at least 2 leaving. We are only bringing in 1 currently this year. We only brought in 2 last year, so we do really need 3-4 this year to maintain numbers in a year or two.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 10:36 AM
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That's fair. Unfortunately trying to take a step up is likely costing us numbers. If we had been competing for 3 star guys we could have likely filled as many as we wanted. Sometimes riding it out with late deciding, 5 and high 4 star guys means you are left with nothing. Hopefully we have a few in 2020 who are ready to play day 1 and a few more who can redshirt to spread out the classes some.
If we take 6 in 2020 to catch up a little and can manage to get 2 or 3 who are ready to play and let the rest redshirt that will hopefully get us in a better spot.
It's hard to predict o-linemen as juniors but hopefully 2 of these guys already committed for 2020 will be ready to go.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 11:12 AM
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Putnam is a must at this point. But yes we’re pretty much going to have to get 2-3 blue chip guys who are ready to play right away. Best case you can hope for are more guys like Carman who we can bring along but will still contribute as true freshmen. The only caveat with that is we have to continue to have great injury luck where these guys wouldn’t be thrown into the fire before they’re ready.
Your point about aiming too high is a salient one. But instead of chasing after 5 stars that we were unlikely to get then having to fall back on 2-3 stars, we could’ve locked up a few 4 stars then chased the bigger fish.
Our OL play has definitely improved over the last 4 years but we need to keep talent in the pipeline to continue that progress.
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 11:21 AM
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When have we fallen back on the 2-3 stars? I don't know of any 2 star linemen we have signed. Sure we get some 3 stars, but we get those at other positions as well. We just have more faith in finding gems at other positions. On the o-line we assume 3 star means not very good.
In response to your post above about recruiting o-line not for next year but for 2-3 years in advance, UGA was starting 2 freshmen on the o-line in the SEC championship game. They recruited for next year and not down the line.
The only reason to recruit o-line for 2-3 years later is if they are 3 star development guys. If you get 5 or high 4 star guys they want to play as freshmen, redshirt freshmen, or sophomores. You can't have it both ways there. You can't expect to sign 5 and high 4 star guys to come sit for 2 years behind juniors.
2020 o-line recruiting is a spot where we must produce. I hope that we can.
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Orange Blooded [2158]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 10:18 AM
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what signs are those? 247 still has Clemson at 12%... they say Bama has the lead.... when did we move out front? Looked at Anna Hickeys twitter and there isn't anything there either so where are you getting your intel?
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Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Clemson is out with Clay Webb
Dec 5, 2018, 10:23 AM
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Hickey changed her CB this morning (it had been Clemson)
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All-In [10900]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Regardless of where Clay commits
Dec 5, 2018, 11:44 AM
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Anna Hickey makes Heather Dinnich look like a football genius.
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Varsity [111]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Regardless of where Clay commits
Dec 5, 2018, 4:46 PM
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Just saying...but what if Dabo cancelled his in home visit because he was told Webb was coming to us?
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Orange Blooded [2158]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Regardless of where Clay commits
Dec 5, 2018, 7:57 PM
[ in reply to Regardless of where Clay commits ] |
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at least she's out doing her job and reporting, more than you on your couch just throwing trash...
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