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Trump told 30 lies last night, Biden told 9 according to "Fact Checkers".
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Replies: 67
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Orange Immortal [65969]
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Trump told 30 lies last night, Biden told 9 according to "Fact Checkers".
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Jun 28, 2024, 7:48 PM
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Assuming that's correct, or even close, what does that say about the state of politics in America, that we are knowingly choosing between two compulsive, unrepentent liars?
Furthermore, what does it say about all of us when, according to a CNN poll, 67% of viewers think the biggest liar won the debate. What in the world are we doing?
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Valley Legend [12961]
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Re: Trump told 30 lies last night, Biden told 9 according to "Fact Checkers".
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Jun 28, 2024, 7:56 PM
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they represent our population perfectly
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CU Medallion [20828]
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Re: Trump told 30 lies last night, Biden told 9 according to "Fact Checkers".
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:00 PM
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It just illustrates your signature - “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
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Heisman Winner [87003]
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Biden was barely coherent enough to tell nine lies. He probably had more
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:00 PM
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lies per coherent statement than Donnie did.
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All-TigerNet [5720]
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Does an incoherent string of mumbling
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:04 PM
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Count as a lie?
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Dynasty Maker [3351]
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Trump was machine-gunning lies for 90 minutes. It was impressive....
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:08 PM
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Almost nothing he said was true. It was awful.
But we live in a world where substance doesn't matter anymore.
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Clemson Icon [24822]
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He also showed that he doesn't know anything. He speaks in broad generalities
Jun 28, 2024, 8:24 PM
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with no interest in or command of policy. He repeated the same tired rally points. He did nothing to build upon his MAGAt base and draw in voters to his cause. He gave Biden so many openings, but unfortunately, Biden didn't capitalize on those opportunities.
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CU Medallion [19141]
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Honestly, it wouldn't matter anyways. Let's see what polls show in 2 weeks
Jun 28, 2024, 8:27 PM
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to see if this debate mattered.
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Clemson Icon [24822]
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Yep. He can still show voters that he is up to the task even if he didn't get
Jun 28, 2024, 8:39 PM
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the job done last night. People don't like Trump.
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Paw Master [16497]
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Re: Yep. He can still show voters that he is up to the task even if he didn't get
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:44 PM
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Dude you're in total denial. I don't like Trump either, but Joe Biden has no business to continue this charade.
You honestly think Joe Biden is up to being President? If so, I can't imagine why.
The NYT editorial board doesn't see it your way.
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Clemson Icon [24822]
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I don't equate debate performance with ability to govern and I think you're
Jun 28, 2024, 8:47 PM
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in a bit of denial about what Trump is.
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CU Medallion [19141]
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Yep, if you read the posts on here everyone tends to agree on Biden...
Jun 28, 2024, 8:49 PM
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but Trump still has his supporters and that's the difference between a cult and reality.
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Clemson Icon [24822]
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The things that MAGAts like about Trump, too many voters despise.***
Jun 28, 2024, 8:54 PM
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CU Medallion [19141]
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Yep, even policy. Check this out:
Jun 28, 2024, 9:03 PM
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Biden's policies: 
Vast majority are popular
Trump's policies: 
Vast Majority are unpopular
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Paw Master [17045]
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How many on Bidens list has he accomplished?***
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Jun 28, 2024, 9:30 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: Yep, even policy. Check this out:
Jun 28, 2024, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to Yep, even policy. Check this out: ] |
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The relatively small number of ‘popular Trump policies’ are, generally speaking, more impactful on the lives of Americans than the relatively large number of ‘popular Biden policies.’
Therefore, Trump’s overall policy targets are more popular than Biden’s overall actual policies.
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CU Medallion [19141]
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lol, parody***
Jun 28, 2024, 9:42 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: lol, parody***
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Jun 29, 2024, 10:56 AM
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Really? I’ll pick one of Biden’s more popular programs to illustrate my point.
Biden: Funding 2 years of free community college for all Americans. Americans don’t need free college for two years of Art/Fine Art, Black Studies, Chicana & Chicano Studies, Dance, etc. Utterly worthless degrees for the students, and a waste of money for American taxpayers. (Source: San Diego Mesa College - Associate Degree Programs)
This one may be popular in the sense that a freeloader slurping a cannabis smoothie, if asked the question, might likely say ‘sure, this is a good idea,’ and then forget about it 30 seconds after the question got asked.
On the other hand, the same question asked to a carpenter during his lunch break (there are fewer carpenters than freeloaders), if asked the same question, would say heck no. He’d probably remember the question because he’d know that enacting such a program would be another waste of his tax money.
(*). The intensity of negative sentiment for those that disagree with Biden’s proposal exceeds the degree of enthusiasm from which those who agree with Biden’s proposal
Voter action is significantly motivated by intensity. This is nothing new to you or anyone else on TNet.
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CU Medallion [19141]
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Re: lol, parody***
Jun 29, 2024, 5:25 PM
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Only you guys can see education for all Americans as a "waste" or "freeloading" instead of seeing it as an investment (similar to how you guys view immigration, welfare, etc.) that helps others and the country.
Here's the full list from your source (the "etc."):
 
like I said, the more you guys argue the more it reads like parody.
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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Dynasty Maker [3351]
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Joe has done a good job as President....
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Jun 29, 2024, 8:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: Yep. He can still show voters that he is up to the task even if he didn't get ] |
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When you look at what he inherited, and what he's done with the economy, health care, climate change, etc, he's had a very good presidency.
He had an awful debate the other night. But the guy he faced was machine-gunning lies. The substance of the debate was one guy telling lies, and the other mostly telling the truth.
Joe might not be up to the task of campaigning. But if he stays in it, I'm still supporting him.
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Ring of Honor [21709]
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Re: Yep. He can still show voters that he is up to the task even if he didn't get
Jun 29, 2024, 8:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yep. He can still show voters that he is up to the task even if he didn't get ] |
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I mentioned before the debates that if Biden tanked he was likely going to get The Talk.
I absolutely think it happens now, one way or another. Biden tanked - and worse than I ever expected. It was absolutely the thing he could not afford to do. And the stakes in this election are far too big to allow Trump to take over again.
Trump will never, ever step aside. So Biden needs to do it, take his bows, and pardon Hunter Biden on the way out the door. He was always supposed to be a one-term president and placeholder, and he's clearly already over his expiration date.
Both of those guys are completely unfit to be leading the US.
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CU Medallion [19141]
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He did better at his rally today, but he'll need to do much more...
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:48 PM
[ in reply to Yep. He can still show voters that he is up to the task even if he didn't get ] |
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and it may not be possible to unring the bell from a narrative perspective. But, Trump has his court dates and the SC is still ruling on cases that will rile up the Democrats so we'll see how the narrative is in the next couple of weeks/months.
IF the dems do decide to change candidates, there's no way it's not Harris and she's probably the worst of the choices to actually beat Trump so dems may be forced to go with Biden and hope he can somehow find his "state of the union joe" from earlier this year.
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Clemson Icon [24822]
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I don't know how those things work, but I'm not so sure Harris would be
Jun 28, 2024, 9:02 PM
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the nominee if Biden steps aside. Gavin Newsome would have eaten Trump's lunch last night. The contrast between him and Trump is stark. I like Gretchen Whitmer a lot. So, I don't think Biden is mortally wounded, but I think there are other options.
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CU Medallion [19141]
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I agree, but Dems can't bypass a black woman VP...
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Jun 28, 2024, 9:05 PM
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without a revolt of black/women/dem voters. Harris would have to agree and go along with it for it to have any chance and based on the polling I've seen Biden still has the best chance of winning over anyone else, as odd as that may be. But, maybe the debate changes things and polls start showing a need to make the change.
We'll find out soonish.
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: I agree, but Dems can't bypass a black woman VP...
Jun 28, 2024, 9:48 PM
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MD governor Wes Moore is the ‘traditional’ type of politician that would resonate with black voters in particular. This guy is not some Eric Adams type of cognitive lightweifpght. Moore is, by many accounts, smart.
I still think that Big Mike will be the one to replace Biden; all she’s got to do is win the election (which she would easily accomplish); get inaugurated; and then resign for personal reasons … at which point, her VP would ascend to the throne of ceremonial president.
Moore would also probably win, but not as comfortably as Big Mike.
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Orange Blooded [2136]
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Mike Pence? Hes a republican***
Jun 28, 2024, 11:11 PM
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Gridiron Giant [15561]
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Re: I agree, but Dems can't bypass a black woman VP...
Jun 29, 2024, 6:13 AM
[ in reply to I agree, but Dems can't bypass a black woman VP... ] |
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^^^this.
We’re stuck with Biden. People thinking otherwise are being foolish.
Harris isn’t getting bypassed. Well, unless we want to lose half the black vote.
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: I agree, but Dems can't bypass a black woman VP...
Jun 29, 2024, 10:59 AM
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Dems will bypass a black VP if they can get a black president in exchange.
President Big Mike >>> VP Kamala.
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TigerNet HOFer [122153]
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Re: I don't know how those things work, but I'm not so sure Harris would be
Jun 28, 2024, 9:32 PM
[ in reply to I don't know how those things work, but I'm not so sure Harris would be ] |
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Newsome would have torn him a new one, he is as quick on his feet as I have seen. but he would be a very unpopular candidate among moderates. But at this point, The DNC needs to shake things up, or we are looking at the lowest turnout in decades, and that means trump will win handedly and we likely end up with a super majority in both chambers, meaning project 2025 is full steam ahead.
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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We, we, we....***
Jun 29, 2024, 12:00 AM
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Valley Protector [1493]
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Re: I don't know how those things work, but I'm not so sure Harris would be
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Jun 28, 2024, 9:51 PM
[ in reply to I don't know how those things work, but I'm not so sure Harris would be ] |
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the nominee if Biden steps aside. Gavin Newsome would have eaten Trump's lunch last night. The contrast between him and Trump is stark. I like Gretchen Whitmer a lot. So, I don't think Biden is mortally wounded, but I think there are other options.
Newsome has presently low approval ratings in his home state
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: I don't know how those things work, but I'm not so sure Harris would be
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Jun 28, 2024, 9:53 PM
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It wasn’t that long ago that Newsome had to defeat a recall election in his home state.
Trump would beat Newsome more easily than he’d beat Biden.
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Clemson Icon [24822]
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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And Biden's riding at ~38%... That's a larger spread than the current polls.***
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Jun 29, 2024, 12:01 AM
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Dynasty Maker [3351]
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Paw Master [16497]
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CU Medallion [19141]
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also that only 5% changed their mind after debate according to CNN poll?
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:16 PM
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We've known these were our choices and it's the ones people voted for to be the leader of their parties so what does that say about the fact so many seem to want either an old raving, lunatic, convicted felon or an old "cognitively declined" man to lead their parties?
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Orange Immortal [65969]
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We have unbelievably low standards and expectations.***
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Jun 28, 2024, 9:01 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: also that only 5% changed their mind after debate according to CNN poll?
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Jun 28, 2024, 9:42 PM
[ in reply to also that only 5% changed their mind after debate according to CNN poll? ] |
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Who was the raving lunatic last night?
And the “convicted felon” thing? Even the legal experts which work for most left wing media outlets describe Trump’s fraud conviction as wrong.
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Orange Blooded [2136]
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And many think his conviction was correct. The justice
Jun 28, 2024, 11:19 PM
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department thinks it was correct. A jury of his peers said it was correct, in record time. He is a 34-time felon. And this was the case that most favored Trump. If he were to stand trial for the others, he would be convicted on 90 felonies.
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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"Peers"... get off that chit. That case has dozens of appellate avenues.***
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Jun 29, 2024, 12:04 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: And many think his conviction was correct. The justice
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Jun 29, 2024, 11:04 AM
[ in reply to And many think his conviction was correct. The justice ] |
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This knife cuts both ways.
Biden’s ‘Trump is a convicted felon’ statement, while technically true at this time (and probably also to remain true through the election) is recognized by attentive Americans as a very weak conviction.
Biden’s decision to emphasize the ‘felon’ matter had the counter effect of illustrating how LawFare has been waged against Trump because Biden cannot win the election via normal political campaigning.
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Orange Blooded [2136]
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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What happened during the 'debate' would have been exposed a while back...***
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Jun 29, 2024, 3:46 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: What happened during the 'debate' would have been exposed a while back...***
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Jun 29, 2024, 4:08 PM
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^^^^ is one of many reasons that the next debate will cancelled (that is, if Biden had not been replaced by Big Mike or Wes Moore right before the DNC convention).
The release / pending release of hundreds of wrongly imprisoned J6’ers will be a huge embarrassment to Biden. With SCOTUS having ruled in a bipartisan vote that the charge of ‘corruptly impeding a official proceeding’ was wrong, Trump can categorize the ‘violent insurrectionist’ description used for most J6’ers as being just another facet in the ‘witch hunt.’
As for the excuse that Team Cheap Fake will use to back away from the ledge, I’m not creative enough to come up with a guess.
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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Can't do it... He's got a cold.***
Jun 29, 2024, 4:24 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [34974]
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Re: Trump told 30 lies last night, Biden told 9 according to "Fact Checkers".
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:21 PM
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Trump just keeps on WINNING!
30-9
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Paw Master [17045]
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Can you list them?***
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Jun 28, 2024, 8:49 PM
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Orange Immortal [65969]
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Hayull no.***
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Jun 28, 2024, 9:01 PM
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Paw Master [17045]
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Thats what I thought.***
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Jun 28, 2024, 9:29 PM
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Orange Immortal [65969]
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So ####### what?***
Jun 28, 2024, 9:45 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: Trump told 30 lies last night, Biden told 9 according to "Fact Checkers".
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Jun 28, 2024, 10:03 PM
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Are 9 stupendous lies worse than 30 so-so lies?
Trump lied twice in one sentence when he described Bidenflation as causing prices to go up by 2x (partly true, if housing is used as the measure in numerous localities, and is pretty much entirely true with gasoline), then (lie #1) 3x, and finally (lie #2) 4x inflation.
(*). Although, the cost of capital (interest rate borrowings) has gone up by 3x in some cases.
Biden’s lies about inflation being 9% when Trump left office was an enormous lie.
Soooo … Trump had twice as many lies than Biden as far as the inflation topic. Were Trump’s lies as absurd as Biden’s? Overall, I’d call this particular contest a draw.
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Orange Immortal [65969]
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To be clear, I'm making no claims regarding who told how many lies, if any.
Jun 28, 2024, 11:03 PM
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It's purely hypothetical questions based on certain assumptions. It amazes me how people automatically view every situation through their default hyperpartisan lens.
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Clemson Icon [27845]
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Those numbers were a MSDNC thing from some "partisan" male jokeress...
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Jun 29, 2024, 12:08 AM
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Screw cutie.
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Clemson Conqueror [11803]
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Re: To be clear, I'm making no claims regarding who told how many lies, if any.
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Jun 29, 2024, 11:09 AM
[ in reply to To be clear, I'm making no claims regarding who told how many lies, if any. ] |
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Maybe so, but the origin of the lies statistic plays a big role in how the original ‘who is the bigger liar’ debate starts.
It is natural for a partisan observer to dissect the ‘factual’ statements from the opposite partisan and then identify the stochastic nature of the (in this case) ‘lies stastic.’
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Orange Immortal [65969]
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I don't disagree with your point about the questionable nature and validity
Jun 30, 2024, 9:37 AM
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of the statistics in the first place, and what that means.
I'm saying just for a moment, let's forget that, and pretend and accept it's reasonably accurate, and that BOTH candidates are massive liars (per the "fact checkers"). I mean, should anybody feel good about Biden because he only told NINE lies?
I get that whether or not Trump told 30 lies and Biden told 9 is highly debateable. I qualified that right off the bat in my original post. That's why I put "fact checkers" in quotes. My point is that IF the candidates told any lies, either millions of Americans have no idea what the truth really is, or they don't seem to care, and are content voting for candidates who don't know or care. We are (A) setting the bar pathetically low if we are willing to accept the best of two liars, or (B) we are in terrible shape if we can't discern the truth from lies.
Now, if the "fact checkers" are themselves liars with an agenda, then yes, Trump and Biden may be saintly men who never told a lie.
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Orange Blooded [2136]
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110%er [3973]
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Re: Trump told 30 lies last night, Biden told 9 according to "Fact Checkers".
Jun 28, 2024, 11:09 PM
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What lies did Trump tell?
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Orange Immortal [65969]
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Ask the "Fact Checkers".***
Jun 28, 2024, 11:21 PM
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Orange Blooded [2136]
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Game Changer [1679]
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Clemson Icon [27845]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 48316
Joined: 2010
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Yep... That's the CNN "male jokeress" I cited. He was 'grinding hard'.***
Jun 29, 2024, 3:50 PM
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National Champion [7277]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
Posts: 11281
Joined: 2003
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Re: Trump told 30 lies last night, Biden told 9 according to "Fact Checkers".
Jun 29, 2024, 8:49 AM
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Because Biden is so senile he couldn't think of any more than 9.
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Clemson Icon [27845]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 48316
Joined: 2010
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6 handicap or 8 handicap...? Never heard his final quip on that...
Jun 8, 2022, 11:32 PM
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
11
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Yeah but that stat does not
Jun 8, 2022, 11:36 PM
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Take into account the distance between the lie and ground truth. If each lie were weighted with that, Biden is a bigger liar.
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Orange Immortal [65969]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 49480
Joined: 2000
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But if anywhere close to accurate, we are still choosing between two
Jun 30, 2024, 11:11 AM
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big fat liars who have a huge problem with the truth. Should we in anyway feel good about that?
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