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All-In [30254]
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Military Pron - The Winter War 1939-1940
Feb 25, 2022, 5:29 PM
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Military Pron – The Winter War
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This is as special edition of Military Pron inspired by current events. Although the details are different, some of the basic patterns are the same. So I present it as a case study in “history repeating itself.”
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It’s the story of a small country that was once part of a larger union, that got its freedom, then had its freedom revoked. It put up a good fight, but fate and overwhelming odds were too much in the end.
….. It’s not easy being Underdog
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How that will play out in current events I have no idea, but it’s a good story and lesson nevertheless. And it was the first thing that came to my mind as I watched events unfold.
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For over a 100 years Finland was a “personal union” with Russia. They were the spoils of war in an 1809 war with Sweden, but life was not so bad. Effectively “personal union” mean that they were their own country with their own rules, though they ultimately answered to the same monarch as Russia, the Tsar.
….. https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*XhKPdGev0_gnFOfYylGurQ.jpeg …..
When the Russian Revolution went down in 1917, Finland got their chance at true freedom and self determination. In the early days, the Russian Revolution was very idealistic. Freedom for all, and all that. They even issued a proclamation called “The Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia.” Here it is, signed by both Lenin and Stalin:
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The declaration allowed for any region to declare itself a free and sovereign state, no questions asked. Freedom for the masses. And the wild thing was, you didn’t even have to be a Communist if you didn’t want to be. You could be any type of government your people wanted.
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No, it’s true.
Some states chose to be Communist. But future countries that jumped at the opportunity and actually chose not to be Communist states, even though the Communists had given them their freedom, were The Baltic States, Poland, Ukraine, and Finland, among others.
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But even within those states that struck out on their own, there were differing opinions. There were the Reds (the Communists), the Whites (the Monarchists and Capitalists) and even the Greens (the anarchal “we hate everybodies”)
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….. But idealism fades so quickly…
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In Finland, the Whites were the majority, and it didn’t take long for all that good-will on all sides to vaporize. People will be people. Communists were outlawed by 1931.
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And in the Soviet Union, Stalin decided that “freedom for all” didn’t fit his new agenda, which was to renege on all that territorial self-determination.
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In 1939, when Stalin signed a peace treaty with Hitler, he got his chance. A secret part of the German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact was that Stalin got a free hand on his side of the Polish divide.
….. Oh happy day! Ribbentrop – Stalin - Molotov
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So by Thanksgiving 1939, just two months after Poland was carved up by Germany and Russia, Finland was the next dish on the table.
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The odds were daunting. Russia had about 5,000 tanks. Finland had 30. Russia had about 4,000 planes. Finland had 114. And the Finns were outnumbered about 3-1 in men. But they had one secret weapon.
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If you’ve ever heard about the Russian Winter, let me introduce you to the Finnish Winter.
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It’s got an average temperature that makes Moscow feel like a steam bath, and add to that the latitude of the country, where it was nearly always dark in the winter, and you have a guerrilla’s paradise.
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….. https://i.insider.com/58bd93d1460178a8008b5036?width=1136&format=jpeg …..
The Soviet short term goal was small. Push the border back from Leningrad and grab a few iron mines in the north. Then try to enter peace negotiations.
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The mastermind of Finnish defense was this guy, Carl Mannerheim. He was sort of the George Washington of modern Finland...did everything...Regent, C-in-C, Marshal, President, kind of what Hector was for Troy. A one man gang. Even helped the Germans plan Barbarossa later on.
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The Russian strategy was simple. Bang. Head. On. Wall. And that’s just what they did. At the Mannerheim Line in the south of Finland, they tripped over their own dikks trudging in the snow against Carl’s fortifications.
….. Maybe a snowplow would help?
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….. Better to be a live Russian prisoner
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….. Than one of your frozen comrades in the snow
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Bad time to conduct a purge, Joe. A military needs leaders.
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Naturally, Russia was only defending itself against Finnish aggression, after a Russian outpost in the middle of nowhere was bombarded by Finnish artillery. Never mind that the Finns didn’t even have artillery in the area.
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The whole world got a good laugh at that dumb-axx false flag.
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Already embarrassed politically by their clumsy prelude to war, Joe got another black eye when the Resolute Finns held the Mannerheim Line and bloodied the invaders horribly in the south.
….. There’s a reason smart leaders don’t attack an enemy on his own turf, in the winter. Dead Reds.
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Turns out dullard frontal assaults didn’t work any better in 1940 than they did at the end of the Civil War.
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….. A frozen foxhole can even double as a pre-dug grave if it’s cold enough
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And then shid got really bad.
In the middle of the country, the Soviets decided to cut Finland in half and sent a full division to do so. Bad move.
….. I promise you. Nothing but bad is going to come from this.
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And so came a replay of the Roman disaster at Caudine Forks, but in Finland the Russians decided to march their whole division into a forest, instead of a box canyon.
….. Doesn’t anyone learn from history? I guess the Russians never heard of the Romans. 321 B.C.E., 1939, whatever.
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And unlike the generous Samnites who were so embarrassed for the Romans they let them go home, the Finns decided to annihilate the hapless Russians.
….. I told you this would end badly
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….. Now the Finns are just mocking the Soviets. Propping up frozen dead bodies as a warning to others.
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But the Russians can be slow witted. Rather than cut their losses, they marched ANOTHER divison into the depths of the Finnish forests and got it completely annihilated too.
….. Red soldiers learn too little, too late. Trapped. With night, and Finnish guerillas coming. Oh shid.
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It was so bad that it is still studied today. But The Battle of Suomussalmi, or, Battle of Ratte Road, was absolutely textbook. Cut off the front of a column, cut off the back, slice up the middle piecemeal.
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….. Ouch.
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….. Ouch.
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….. Ouch.
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The Finns did their Highway of Death in the snow on skis, but we did ours in the desert with aircraft.
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In fact, the average Finn soldier was practically born on skis, fighting in the woods he was born in, using the same gun to shoot Russians that he used to shoot elk or reindeer.
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….. Sorry, bud.
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A real life “Red Dawn” story.
….. Roadhouse, Red Dawn, Dirty Dancing. No one wants to mess with Swayze.
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….. The Finns laugh at -15 degree Russian Winters. Try -45 degrees every day for months.
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But sadly for the Finns, the Russians learned, and the Finns had no help. The League of Nations said some really unpleasant things, and booted Russia from the club, but that was all the assistance the valiant Finns got.
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The Russians came back in the spring of 1940 with more troops, and more sense, and bulldozed the Mannheim Line.
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….. Gotta be a “shid your britches” moment the first time a KV-II rolls up to your trench. I don’t care how good a shot you are or how big your rifle is...run.
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Ultimately the new President of Finland, Kyosto Kallio, was forced to sue for peace, giving up border lands with the comment “Let the hand that signs this piece of shid document wither off.”
Well, he said “monstrosity” , not piece of shid, but you know he meant piece of shid.
….. Finnish territorial concessions to Russia
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….. I wouldn’t be happy either, Kyosti. That’s an eat-shid look if I’ve ever seen one.
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….. The War Monument at Suomussalmi Finland. One Rock for each dead soldier. 750 Fins. 24,000 Russians.
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110%er [7703]
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Re: Military Pron - The Winter War 1939-1940
Feb 25, 2022, 6:28 PM
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Yours' has got to be the greatest combo post of military / political history -and- fine art that I've ever read (and ogled). To me, your chronical (and photos + maps) of the Russo/Finnish war of 1939-1940 was the bestest ever from an informational and easy-to-read format.
Oh yes, did I mention that your postings of the FINE ART (or should I say FINN ART) photographs were very uh, er, ah, educational. That's it ... educational. I likes being smart, help a brother and send more photos.
Do this more often Fordtunate Son.
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All-In [30254]
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Re: Military Pron - The Winter War 1939-1940
Feb 25, 2022, 6:38 PM
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Thanks for your comment Rem. I'm not sure how many of these I've done, but it you are new to them just search Military Pron in the search bar and you'll see the full list. Some Rev War, some Civil War, some WW1&2...a mixed bag of whatever was on my mind or peeps asked for. With lots of ladies...
They used to be a good deal more racy but Crump and BM asked me to focus more on the Military and less on the Pron. ">
I've also got some Religious Pron posts floating around too. Hope you continue to enjoy them!
RememberTheDanny
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110%er [7703]
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Re: Military Pron - The Winter War 1939-1940
Feb 25, 2022, 9:00 PM
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Gute empfehlung, Herr Fordtunate Son!
Vielen dank!
Erinnere dich der Danny
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All-In [30254]
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Re: Military Pron - The Winter War 1939-1940
Feb 25, 2022, 9:10 PM
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Kein Problem. Ich hoffe dir gefällt es!
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CU Medallion [56879]
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All-In [30254]
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Re: More on Simo Hayha - one of the baddest badassses to ever
Feb 25, 2022, 6:47 PM
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Nice Addition. Thumbs up!
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Legend [15696]
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Thanks again Fordt !!
Feb 26, 2022, 8:41 AM
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Great story on the Finns. And love the statement that last girl made!!
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Hall of Famer [22544]
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outstanding post as usual, Ford...I always figured I was the
Feb 26, 2022, 11:50 AM
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most "military/war history freak" on Tnet... but damm son, you really know your chit. I love it.
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All-In [46819]
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Me ?
Feb 26, 2022, 1:09 PM
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Finish pron.
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Oculus Spirit [94583]
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Fine work.
Feb 26, 2022, 1:29 PM
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Really good work and I think everyone appreciates it.
BTW, I'm not attracted to those children in your photo displays and I forbid your posting of women my age.
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All-In [30254]
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Re: Fine work.
Feb 26, 2022, 2:17 PM
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When I was about 11 I was sitting on a pier fishing with my grandad and two girls in bikinis rode by in a small speedboat. I was watching them, and when I turned to follow their path across the lake I noticed my grandad was watching them too.
He looked at me and said "Get used to it for the rest of your life. The parts may stop working but the drive never does."
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Replies: 11
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