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All-In [26968]
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I honestly don't understand the concept of
Sep 26, 2019, 10:49 AM
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the impeachment processing "guaranteeing 2020 for Trump". Does this mean that there are people who were not voting for the President, who would change their mind and vote for him, because he is potentially being impeached? I don't understand this mindset. What would cause a person to have such a change of mind?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I honestly don't understand the concept of
Sep 26, 2019, 10:52 AM
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Maybe they think we Dems are on another worthless witch hunt? That seems to be what I hear from people who say that. They think it is bad politics that hurts the Dems and helps Trump. Nobody really knows though.
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All-In [26968]
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That would mean there are people who are currently
Sep 26, 2019, 10:57 AM
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not voting for the President, who believe this is a "witch hunt". I've never seen anyone call it a "witch hunt" who was not already a very strong supporter of the President.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: That would mean there are people who are currently
Sep 26, 2019, 10:59 AM
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Exactly...undecided people, independents, or people that are on the fence with their party.
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All-In [26968]
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I'm just having trouble picturing someone sitting at home
Sep 26, 2019, 11:19 AM
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Not sure who they will vote for, then they see on TV that the President is being impeached, and say "That's it, I'm voting for him!"
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I'm just having trouble picturing someone sitting at home
Sep 26, 2019, 12:12 PM
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They may not see it that way. They may see the impeachment as nonsense. They may see it as the Dems are somewhat worthless and are on another wasted witch hunt and they are tired of the bull. It could throw the Dems in a negative light. It can go either way. There is no telling. People may have fatigue of all of the investigations or whatever.
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110%er [7210]
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No such thing as bad publicity?***
Sep 26, 2019, 11:09 AM
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CU Medallion [56106]
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The GOP took a hit as a result of the Clinton impeachment.
Sep 26, 2019, 11:09 AM
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They lost 5 seats in the House in the 1998 mid-terms and Gingrich resigned his seat as a result, so there's a precedent for this kind of investigation resulting in a political backlash.
Message was edited by: Murcielago®
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All-In [26968]
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That's the House...I'm talking about the Presidential
Sep 26, 2019, 11:18 AM
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election.
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CU Medallion [56106]
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It could generate sympathy for Trump and
Sep 26, 2019, 11:27 AM
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reflect poorly on Democrats including the ones challenging Trump in 2020 if the inquiry becomes unpopular.
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All-In [26968]
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Associating the Democratic opponent with a decision
Sep 26, 2019, 11:30 AM
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to impeach, that I think is an incorrect decision (even if the Democratic opponent is not directly involved in that decision). So I will vote for the President, so that the Democratic opponent does not win.
(Just kind of repeating your point to myself, to make sure I understand it.)
I feel bad for the President for having to "go through this," so I now want him to be President.
(This is a weaker idea, to me.)
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Here is my view (admittedly from the right)
Sep 26, 2019, 11:51 AM
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The Democrats cannot emotionally accept the results of the 2016 election. Since before the election they have tried any and every way to twist the election results to show that they actually won. It is like watching my 11 year old argue.
For 3 years of his presidency, instead of opposing him with IDEAS in front of the American people, they simply try to undermine the legitimacy of his office. It is juvenile and off putting.
What does the democrat party stand for? What do they want to achieve? For the last 3 years it is simply "I hate Trump more."
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All-In [26968]
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I viewed the President's campaign in much the same way.
Sep 26, 2019, 11:58 AM
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I thought his campaign was mainly about being mad at everyone else, not for actually having substantive policy ideas.
So, I'm not sure that attitude, if held by Democrats, is exclusive to them.
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CU Medallion [56106]
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All-In [28802]
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Very old ideas***
Sep 26, 2019, 12:12 PM
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CU Medallion [56106]
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Ideas aren't bad because they're old.
Sep 26, 2019, 12:34 PM
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And you can't disagree with ideas while simultaneously denying their existence.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: The GOP took a hit as a result of the Clinton impeachment.
Sep 26, 2019, 9:30 PM
[ in reply to The GOP took a hit as a result of the Clinton impeachment. ] |
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*correction, they lost 40 seats in the house and 8 senators. It's interesting to see interviews with Lindsey Graham during that time. If he applied the same beliefs he expressed then to now, he'd have fried Trump after he told people that were repairing the border wall that he'd pardon them if they broke any laws.
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CU Medallion [58447]
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It doesn't necessarily mean that people will change
Sep 26, 2019, 11:19 AM
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their minds because of this, but it means that many who do not currently have their minds made up one way or the other may be influenced by this. There are plenty of people out there like this. I think most people already have their minds made up - they're going to vote for Trump or against Trump; there's almost nothing that will change their minds. There are people who are actually undecided, believe it or not, and things like this will have an impact with a lot of them.
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Standout [347]
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I am one of those undecided voters. I think Trump is a
Sep 26, 2019, 11:54 AM
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first ballot hall of fame moron, but I’m not about to vote for someone on the extreme left if they win the nomination. If that were to happen, I might actually vote for Trump, because I know he is so ineffective that nothing will continue to get done and we will have the status quo for four years. Which is not ideal, but could be better than the alternative, and I could wait for another cycle to hopefully vote in someone with some sense.
This impeachment doesn’t really affect my decision at all though. Impeached or not, he’s unfit for the job. But so are some potential Dem candidates, and unlike Trump, they might actually be able to implement some of their ideas.
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Standout [347]
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I am one of those undecided voters. I think Trump is a
Sep 26, 2019, 11:54 AM
[ in reply to It doesn't necessarily mean that people will change ] |
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first ballot hall of fame moron, but I’m not about to vote for someone on the extreme left if they win the nomination. If that were to happen, I might actually vote for Trump, because I know he is so ineffective that nothing will continue to get done and we will have the status quo for four years. Which is not ideal, but could be better than the alternative, and I could wait for another cycle to hopefully vote in someone with some sense.
This impeachment doesn’t really affect my decision at all though. Impeached or not, he’s unfit for the job. But so are some potential Dem candidates, and unlike Trump, they might actually be able to implement some of their ideas.
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All-In [26968]
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Let me rephrase/refocus the question...
Sep 26, 2019, 11:22 AM
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It's not so much that I don't understand how it would happen, in that undecideds become decided.
What I'm really wondering about it...what in the person's mind actually makes them want to vote for the President more because of this?
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All-In [40353]
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the only thing I can see is this
Sep 26, 2019, 11:27 AM
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empathy.
every possible attempt to get rid of him has been made and the entire presidency has been a media circus with seemingly no actual work being done in DC.
people may feel sorry for him going through all of this and being dragged through the mud.
they may see him as more believable in that he has claimed to not have done any of the allegations along the way and it still has not been proven that he has done any of things that he's been alleged to have done.
IF he gets re-elected, first order of business needs to be an official white house twitter feed that he is not allowed to type from and his personal one shut down.
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CU Medallion [58447]
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Very simple. A lot of people see the democrats as
Sep 26, 2019, 11:33 AM
[ in reply to Let me rephrase/refocus the question... ] |
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petty and vindictive, lacking any real platform other than "GET TRUMP!". This will only reinforce that.
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All-In [26968]
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Again, associating the individual opponent
Sep 26, 2019, 11:36 AM
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with a larger negative attitude toward a party.
One reason I think I don't "get" that too well, is that I completely ignore party when I vote for President. Others obviously do not.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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do you? knowing full well that the democrat will
Sep 26, 2019, 11:54 AM
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support and fund abortion, regardless of what they said in the campaign.
The democrat party will support abortion. If the Congress is held by democrats, pro abortion legislation will be passed. A democrat president WILL sign that legislation.
You still dont look at party?
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All-In [26968]
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I definitely will never vote for a candidate
Sep 26, 2019, 11:58 AM
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who supports the murder of the unborn. Party has nothing to do with that.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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But even a president follows the party line
Sep 26, 2019, 12:04 PM
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and they are the party of murder
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All-In [26968]
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I've never had the opportunity (that I know of)
Sep 26, 2019, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to do you? knowing full well that the democrat will ] |
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to vote for a Democrat who claimed to be completely against the slaughter of children. So I guess I haven't crossed that bridge yet. But I am always highly, highly focused on the candidates past words and actions related to the issue. It's one very significant reason I did not vote for President Trump in 2016. When he said he was against the murder of children, I didn't really believe him, because of his past words and actions.
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CU Medallion [56106]
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"I don't like politicians who are petty and vindictive...
Sep 26, 2019, 12:45 PM
[ in reply to Very simple. A lot of people see the democrats as ] |
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... and that's why I'm voting for Trump in 2020!"
That's like saying, "I don't like politicians who endorse violence. That's why I'm voting for The Predator in 2020!"
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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It is wishful thinking. Republicans lost a few seats in 98
Sep 26, 2019, 11:24 AM
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and 2000 but they did NOT lose control of the House or Senate as a result of impeachment with Bush winning in 2000 after running on a platform "to restore honor and dignity to the White House."
"In January 2001, almost exactly two years after House Republicans defied public opinion to impeach Clinton, the GOP controlled the White House, the House, and initially the Senate. (Within months, the Republican Jim Jeffords of Vermont would switch parties, shifting control to the Democrats."
I would add that Clinton's impeachment was for lying about a blowjob. Quite the contrast to the actions of the current occupant.
Basically it is wishful thinking based upon a misread of history.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: It is wishful thinking. Republicans lost a few seats in 98
Sep 26, 2019, 12:41 PM
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and 2000 but they did NOT lose control of the House or Senate as a result of impeachment with Bush winning in 2000 after running on a platform "to restore honor and dignity to the White House."
"In January 2001, almost exactly two years after House Republicans defied public opinion to impeach Clinton, the GOP controlled the White House, the House, and initially the Senate. (Within months, the Republican Jim Jeffords of Vermont would switch parties, shifting control to the Democrats."
I would add that Clinton's impeachment was for lying about a blowjob. Quite the contrast to the actions of the current occupant.
Basically it is wishful thinking based upon a misread of history.
That was how he phrased it, but he was actually impeached for exactly one of the many things leveled against Trump - obstruction, along with lying under oath.
You can definitely make a case that Clinton obstructed the heck out of justice, as well as lying under oath; he lied about and tried to cover up the Monica Lewinski thing fifty different ways...for which the Dems would have been wise to remove him.
Well, they didn't. And Clinton survived...and the Republicans have been beating the Dems upside the head with him ever since, because impeached or no, Slick Willy was definitely a dirty lying dog and the real question with him (and Hillary!) has always been just how deep that rabbit hole actually went. The GOP has gotten some mileage outta that one, whatever...do you realize Bill Clinton has been out of office now since 2001? Eighteen years later that's the gift that's still giving for the GOP.
Of course, now the Republicans are making the same mistake, and my word are they doing it up large. I cannot even imagine how much mileage the Dems are going to get off Trump over the next couple decades. Trump is already a cartoon caricature in the eyes of the Millennials and Gen Z...and then let history get to work on him, it's going to be an epic PR disaster.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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roughly 50% of the country likes trump
Sep 26, 2019, 11:32 AM
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only 20% of people like congress.
with congress crying wolf at ever single news cycle their is a palpable fatigue in the country. Not fatigue of trump but fatigue of the democrats incessant hatred.
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All-In [26968]
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That can almost be framed as a reason to not vote for him...
Sep 26, 2019, 11:35 AM
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If this sort of fatigue is what's driving my vote, I have two options to reduce that fatigue: vote for a different Congressman, and vote for a different President. Voting for the President actually makes it more likely for this supposed "hatred," of which i'm fatigued, to continue.
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All-In [40353]
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i am pretty sick and tired of everything being the next big
Sep 26, 2019, 11:37 AM
[ in reply to roughly 50% of the country likes trump ] |
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thing.
i wasn't paying enough attention in the bush years and previous (too young)
But if Obama used his salad fork for dinner it was a scandal from the right If Trump plays a round of golf it's a scandal from the left
If they'd save up for the actual dirty stuff I would probably be more inclined to be outraged, but I just can't take the constant scandals of nothing from both sides. Give me a legit crime or something
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All-In [28802]
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The focus on Trump is much more intense
Sep 26, 2019, 11:49 AM
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Of course, Trump's behavior is one reason for that. Being as charitable as possible, you could look at the increased criticism of Trump as being about him not being a politician and him wanting to "drain the swamp," which naturally would cause some pushback from "The Establishment." So it's actually a good thing that he's being criticized all the time (TheProdigal, I think this is where the stuff about every criticism increasing Trump's chance to win comes from- these people are true believers).
Being a little less charitable, you could look at this as mostly being about Trump being a bumbling rube who doesn't care about violating any standards in his pursuit of making himself look good. His problem is incompetence rather than criminal malice. He usually has some rational motive, or some inkling of truth, behind what he says and does, but that inkling is surrounded by nonsense. This is mostly what I think.
Being the least charitable, he's a criminal who wants to overthrow the constitutional system to increase his power. This seems to be what a lot of progressives think.
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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All-In [28802]
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Unfortunately, that's what the electorate wanted***
Sep 26, 2019, 2:35 PM
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All-In [28802]
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Which is pretty sad
Sep 26, 2019, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to roughly 50% of the country likes trump ] |
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I suppose the complex nature of Congress and the simplicity of the Presidency contributes some to low ratings for Congress and higher ratings for Presidents. However, that difference of opinion also betrays a desire for a strongman ruler and distaste for the process of legislation.
I do think you're right that people are having a hard time differentiating important critiques of Trump and his behavior in office from frivolous ones. There's just been too much of a focus on Trump. However, that doesn't mean that this particular thing that Trump has done isn't worthy of impeachment.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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when you cry wolf every day, We dont know when the REAL
Sep 26, 2019, 11:43 AM
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wolf comes.
24 hour democrat news cycle has desensitized us to SCANDAL!
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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agreed. like lawyers, every one of them is an S-O-B
Sep 26, 2019, 11:55 AM
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except MINE!
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Wall Street Journal says 69% of voters dislike Trump.
Sep 26, 2019, 12:02 PM
[ in reply to roughly 50% of the country likes trump ] |
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That probably does not bode well for him gaining sympathy from impeachment.
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All-In [49058]
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IMO, this is Trumps' political savvy
Sep 26, 2019, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to roughly 50% of the country likes trump ] |
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and he learned it from the nothing burger that followed his repeated attempts to prove Obama was Kenyan. Those types of inquiries ultimately shore up the base for the person being attacked and alienate the middle ground voters.
People probably should care about the sitting president interfering in elections using the power of his office, but the Mueller investigation with all it's vagueness just made people tune out. Trump actually TOLD everyone he had invited this investigation into a rival, and then released proof of it.
He's baiting the democrats into impeachment.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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LOL!
Sep 26, 2019, 3:15 PM
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You can tell how happy he is about it.
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All-In [49058]
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Dude, that's his MO
Sep 26, 2019, 4:34 PM
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being attacked and "coming out swinging" It makes his base happy as clams.
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All-In [28802]
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Some people might perceive it as overly partisan
Sep 26, 2019, 11:35 AM
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However, a lot of people saying this just think that any strident opposition to Trump is good for Trump because they never take any allegation against him seriously. Some of these people simply don't care how Trump misbehaves as long as he makes a mockery of the political system.
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All-In [26968]
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That's kinda like how it's viewed as a positive when
Sep 26, 2019, 11:38 AM
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the President belittles and mocks the press, because it "serves them right" and "someone finally stood up to them," when what we should be thinking is "the President should treat people kindly".
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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should he?
Sep 26, 2019, 11:46 AM
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All-In [26968]
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Yes, I believe the Bible teaches that
Sep 26, 2019, 11:55 AM
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all of our speech toward everyone should be gracious and edifying.
I'd be careful saying we should always do everything that Jesus did. Jesus was God, and we are not. We should definitely do everything Jesus tells us to do, and one of those things is to speak to edify.
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All-In [29036]
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My take
Sep 26, 2019, 11:37 AM
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I don't really think it would serve to convince folks as to who they would vote for, but perhaps it motivates more folks who were already supportive of Trump to get out and vote at all.
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110%er [9668]
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Yep - I think this is it. Hillary calling these folks
Sep 26, 2019, 1:10 PM
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"deplorable" rallied Trump supporters who may not have bothered to go vote.
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CU Guru [1878]
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It amazes me that Trump can spend 365 days a year calling Democrats much worse names
Sep 26, 2019, 4:49 PM
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But Hillary saying something 3 years ago is still a rallying cry for Trump supporters. It's either:
1. Trump Republicans have the softest skin of any voting base that they still even talk about something Hillary said.
2. Democrats are incapable of rallying the troops over Trump's comments
Maybe it's just a mix of both.
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Oculus Spirit [83133]
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They think Trump could gain sympathy and people
Sep 26, 2019, 11:45 AM
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would feel sorry for him.
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CU Guru [1878]
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It could happen
Sep 26, 2019, 4:42 PM
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Republicans absolutely did not expect to lose seats in Congress following Bill Clinton's impeachment proceedings.
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Oculus Spirit [93686]
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I believe the concept contains an element of sympathy...
Sep 26, 2019, 8:33 PM
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for the POTUS being tried for a crime which didn't really harm America. Most folks associate harm with their bank accounts which is, imo the reason Clinton got away with perjury and putting his rod in his staff.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I honestly don't understand the concept of
Sep 26, 2019, 9:17 PM
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Trump surrounds himself with yes men and syncophants. He was terribly mislead about impeachment and letting that transcript out.
That was an historical blunder. It only opens the door to pursuit of other transcripts that are locked in a 'special system'.
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