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Topic: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately
Replies: 59   Last Post: Feb 18, 2020, 2:24 PM by: Anonymous08®
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Replies: 59  

If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 2:41 PM
 

quote from Judge Karen: "As for the Wake game, Brad took responsibility for us not being better prepared to handle Wake's matchup zone. This was a wrinkle we weren't prepared for. Does that mean Brownell didn't coach well? Maybe, but I also know that coaches can't prepare for everything. He attempted to coach this on the fly during the game, but there is only so much coaching that can occur when a team throws something new at you."

https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Ive-never-said-that-I-dont-see-any-flaws-26893535


Can someone explain this to me? Danny Manning has been using a matchup zone defense a majority of the time for well over a year now. Heck, he used it against UVA in a game that went into OT just 6 days before they beat us! How can this be a surprise to Brad Brownell?

I was all for giving him 2 more years, but if what Karen says is true then CBB should go, and it should be today.

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You should contact Dan Radakovich and communicate

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:04 PM
 

your concerns.

But before you do, you should know that the matchup zone itself wasn't new to anyone. The details of it were (which is why I mentioned the "wrinkle" in my post).

You do know that there are variations within the different defenses, right?

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So what was this new wrinkle and how did it differ

[3]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:11 PM
 

from what they did the first time we played them?

And yes, I am aware that there are variations within different defenses, but what did Manning show in the 2nd game that was 1) a surprise; and 2) something the offense couldn't read?

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


You should ask Brad.

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:22 PM
 

He's really the only one who can answer those questions, as he knows what the coaches saw on film and how the practice time was utilized.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Well you watched both games didn't you? What did you see

[3]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:29 PM
 

that Wake did differently in our 2nd game against them from our first game against them 11 days earlier?

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


criggets***

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 9:23 PM
 



link

Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately

[4]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:04 PM
 

Manning was clearly saving a super secret wrinkle in his back pocket just for Clemson. He wanted to give us a payback for the last 10+ years of football beatings. We always get everyone's best shot because of that.

link

Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately

emoji_events [8]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:05 PM
 

JK may be referencing Coach B’s radio comments from the post-Wake loss, for which I doubt there are transcripts. I listened to them, too.

He undoubtedly said that he took responsibility for the team’s confusion in dealing with the MZ. Apparently (and I’m less clear on this) he thought the team understood it better than they actually did. That implies to me that they had practiced for it before the first game but hadn’t reviewed it much since then OR the players who are now getting a lot more minutes were not the ones who got the bulk of the work in practice because our lineup has been fluid.

I don’t know. Clearly he was mistaken about our preparation for it and acknowledged it. Since practice time is a rationed commodity in the NCAA, there are some areas of the game that get skipped for the sake of time management.

Or maybe he was just being the coach and refusing to throw his players under the bus. A MZ can be difficult to penetrate even when you have been coached up for it.

Or Maybe he read Tnet and spent that time practicing free throws.

link

Those are fair comments and not at all what Karen said

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:16 PM
 

Being under-prepared for the MZ is much different than being surprised by it and calling it a new wrinkle. While the 2 Wake games were only ~11 days apart, the lineups were very different going off memory. That would make far more sense than Brownell being surprised by a "new wrinkle."

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:38 PM
 

I think he should be fired, and my reason is that we haven't been very good at basketball with him as head coach.

link

Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:40 PM
 

go after to replace him?

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For starters, I'd take a coach who isn't

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:52 PM
 

surprised by the same defense they faced 11 days earlier and/or under-prepared their players for said defense.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:53 PM
 

I think it is funny that every time you ask this question Judge; it goes deafening silent. They all want him gone but can’t come up with a viable candidate. Or they name someone that all of the sudden has a winning record this year. Oh yeah, and Gregg Marshall. ??

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Re: Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:58 PM
 

Ha, and those that bother to respond normally include someone who is under investigation by the NCAA, dead, or Rick Barnes (both?).

The only person of late that I would consider (last year) was Nate Oats... but I did not think he would come south. Now at Alabama, it will be interesting but he LOST to UNC this year. Staying with BB.

link

I agree!***

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:13 PM
 



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Re: Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

emoji_events [9]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 5:01 PM
 

Brian Dutcher, San Diego State – Dutch was the coach-in-waiting and was Steve Fisher’s right-hand man for decades at both Michigan and San Diego State. The first two seasons of the Dutcher regime were a little uninspiring, but the 60-year-old has the Aztecs as one of the final two unbeatens and has silenced the skeptics.

Dane Fischer, William & Mary – To say the expectations for the Tribe were low is an understatement. They were picked seventh in the CAA after a mass exodus in the offseason following the surprising departure of Tony Shaver. I hammered the move, but Fischer has made AD Samantha Huge look smart as the former Bucknell and George Mason assistant has W&M 13-5 overall and 5-0 in CAA play.

Steve Pikiell, Rutgers – The Scarlet Knights are 12-4 and have wins over Seton Hall, Wisconsin and Penn State. Pikiell has Rutgers in position to go to its first NCAA tourney since 1991.

Ritchie McKay, Liberty – The Flames are 18-1 with their lone loss coming in Baton Rouge against LSU. The 18-1 record says it all.

Kyle Keller, Stephen F. Austin – The guy beat Duke at Cameron. Need I say more?

Keith Dambrot, Duquesne – Dambrot has the Dukes at 14-2 overall and 3-0 in A-10 play. The last time Duquesne made the NCAA tourney was back in 1977.

Geno Ford, Stony Brook – Geno Ford got a second chance after being promoted following the departure of Jeff Boals, and he has the Seawolves at 12-6 overall and 3-0 in America East play, including a road win over league favorite Vermont.

David Patrick, UC Riverside – At 12-6 and 2-0 in league play, UC Riverside has beaten Nebraska and a pair of Mountain West teams in Fresno State and San Jose State.

Austin Claunch, Nicholls – I had to get the youngest D-1 head coach in the country on here, but he’s earned it. Picked 11th in the Southland, the 30-year-old Claunch has led the Colonels to an 11-6 overall mark and a league-leading 5-1 record.

Damon Stoudamire, Pacific – The former Arizona and NBA star guard has turned it around at one of the most difficult jobs in the league. The Tigers are 14-5 overall, 2-1 in WCC play with a win over Saint Mary’s and also a non-league victory against UNLV.

Rick Croy, Cal Baptist – In just his second season in the D-1 ranks, Croy has the Lancers in second in the WAC behind New Mexico State. Cal Baptist is 12-5 overall and has conference wins over Bakersfield and Grand Canyon on the road.


Not that I necessarily want to fire CBB, but don't act like there are not a long list of qualified coaches who can take his place.

link

Thank you, I know that took a long time to post.

[3]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 7:36 PM
 

I think all of those guys are good coaches who have had some success.

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Whew! at least that question doesn't need to be asked again.***

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 9:34 PM
 



link

We can only hope...

[1]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 9:23 AM
 

.

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Re: Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 10:10 PM
 

I appreciate that research, but you really should update it. Most D1 schools have now played at least 24 games, and some of your data hasn’t been updated for several games. Liberty lost 2 games in a week back in late Jan. and some others have seen significant changes as their season has progressed.

The other major factor is that you are only showing coaches who have had success at mid majors (except the Rutgers coach). The Brownell experience teaches one primary lesson: if you can’t recruit with the big boys, you probably can’t compete with them.

A coach who has success recruiting to a mid major WILL NOT have success at an ACC school recruiting those same athletes. He must be able to recruit at a higher level.

Tony Bennett is the poster boy for basketball hires. He was successful at Wazzou before going to a barren but hungry UVa. He already had success recruiting major college players.

The catch is all about finding a successful P5 coach who considers Clemson to be both a step up AND a destination school.

After 9;years, Brownell is just now getting some of the recruits and respect any ACC coach should get when they are hired. But it’s taken him a long time to get there. If we replace him with another mid major whiz kid we will be waiting a while again for our new coach to upgrade his recruiting to Brad’s current level.

link

Re: Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

[1]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 10:30 AM
 

(Eyeroll.)

What is TD-worthy about my response? I'd love someone to tell me. No argument, just curious.

Then again, maybe it's just me.

Or something I said 2 months ago.

Whatever. This 95 thing really hurts me.

link

Thanks for the great list - waterboy !! One of my pet...

[3]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 7:57 AM
 

... peeves on TNet is when posters ask what coach would you go after if we fired xxxxx ... Like TNetters would know all the available good possibilities?? Obviously you did - but - well .. -<img border="> .. Further - let DRad do his job and find the great fit ...it is his responsibility .... Not that I want anyone fired - I just always feel that is a very lame post !! Sooo ... there .... -<img border=">

link

If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Well, many T-Netters think they know enough to

[2]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 11:36 AM
 

call for a coach's head, so in that case it isn't unreasonable to ask them who they would want to replace him with.

I agree, we should support our AD. It's his job to decide if a coach is doing well or not, and if not, find a suitable replacement.

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Re: Well, many T-Netters think they know enough to

[3]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 11:58 AM
 

I agree - Judge .. and I enjoy your well thought out posts. While I agree that we TNetters don’t usually exhibit the highest intelligence regarding coaches’ evaluation - I think asking said poaster who would be a suitable replacement is not a reason for squelching any and all criticism ... jmpo ... -<img border=">

link

If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Re: Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:21 PM
 

I have not figured out an easy way to post links or articles, pics. Etc using my cell phone.

So to answer your question. We could use this list of coaches for starters. Google, "which college coaches under 40 are .most liky to be stars in next decade."

Or google" The watch list. Top 25 up N co.ing college basketball coaches--The Athletic".I'm sure there is one good hire a.ong these. When they become successful at CU, will they stay? If we are serious about supporting them. maybe.

Interesting g names on both lists

badge-donor-05yr.jpg2013_nascar_champ.gif2014_nascar_champ.gif link


Re: Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:52 PM
 

It doesn't matter who I say I would like, it would get beaten down by you Brownell-loving people on here.

We have sucked for years, but yea, keep defending him....

So fun NOT being a national factor whatsoever for - what - a decade now? (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell)

link

I was honestly asking your opinion.***

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 7:37 PM
 



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Re: Just out of curiosity, who would you like to see us

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 10:13 PM
 

I. Couldn’t. Tell.

Kinda like your handle, right?

“The Top Fan”?

You’re just so serious, baby.

link

Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately

[2]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 7:32 AM
 

THETOPFAN said:

I think he should be fired, and my reason is that we haven't been very good at basketball with him as head coach.



Actually we have been good almost every year and very good a couple of years

link

Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:41 PM
 

Most baseball teams play a type of zone defense... why in the world would this ever surprise a basketball coach?

link

Apparently there was some sort of new wrinkle in the

[4]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 3:45 PM
 

same matchup zone that had everyone confused. Unless Rw43 is correct and it wasn't about a new wrinkle and it was more about the players being under-prepared. I'm not sure which is worse.

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You sure are spending a lot of time on this.

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:14 PM
 

Did you contact our AD about this yet?

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based on this

[4]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:17 PM
 

https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Well-you-watched-both-games-didnt-you-What-did-you-see-26894113

he's waiting on you first.

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


JK can't answer that question because she doesn't know

[4]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:25 PM
 

I even politely asked what should've been an easy one to knock out of the park and she couldn't answer in this post:

https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Perhaps-you-could-provide-a-detailed-analysis-of-26892853

JK isn't interested in having an actual basketball Xs and Os conversation.


Message was edited by: GWPTiger®


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You are the one who doesn't seem interested in having

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:37 PM
 

an actual discussion.

But in case you truly are interested in having your questions answered, I encouraged you to contact Brad for clarification. As I mentioned, he is the only one who can tell you what he saw on film prior to the game while also accounting for how they spent practice time leading up to the game.

P.S. Calling for a coach to be fired based on your limited data isn't a good look for someone who claims to be a supporter of the program.

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Karen be like.....

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:42 PM
 



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"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: Karen be like.....


Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 10:33 AM
 

^ Yes. Just yes.


Seen any elves? Ha!

link

Here, let me ask in a different way and maybe it will be

[3]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:50 PM
 

helpful and more productive.

Did you see any differences in Wake's matchup zone in the 2nd game as compared to their zone in the first game? If so, what did you see?

Follow up question, what did you think about Brad's gameplan against the matchup zone prior to adjustments Danny Manning made after the first few minutes of the 2nd game? What did you think was successful (since we really did get off some good shots, they just weren't going in)?

After Manning made his first adjustments in-game when we played them the 2nd time, what did you think we should have done differently to attack the zone? I'd love to hear your thoughts on our man sets and why they would or would not be successful against the matchup zone that night.

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GWP be like....

[1]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 2:24 PM
 



2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg link

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Why the insults? People have a right to their opinion...

[3]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 4:52 PM
 

I know it's the internet and all, but Judge Keller obviously loves Clemson, and this is a Clemson board. I've also never seen him insult anyone on this board.

link

Re: Why the insults? People have a right to their opinion...

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 6:04 PM
 

Well, GWP TIGER, who would you have him replaced by and not send the team into a complete tailspin. You are demanding of actions without a path to solutions.

link

Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately


Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 6:18 PM
 

I think it is more of just a good coach trying to say things to take the blame and responsibility away from the players on a night when the shots were not going in. Nothing more and nothing less. And clearly it worked if this is the conversation we are having now. So good on Brad.

link

Brad can't win with some people.

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 7:39 PM
 

He takes the blame for not having the players ready, rather than throwing them under the bus for making a paltry 30% of their shots that game, and he has people like GWPTiger calling for his immediate dismissal.

If he had blamed the players for not executing, then someone on here would've surely been saying that a good coach would've taken the blame.

It's ridiculous.

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From the "I like Brad, buuuuut...."crowd***


Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 7:47 PM
 



link

So you’re saying that it was the players’ fault and not

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 8:09 PM
 

Brad’s? You never answered any of my questions about the type of offensive sets we were running that night so I can’t tell if you think any part of that loss was Brad’s fault or not.

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I'm not sure why you are so insistent on assigning blame

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 9:05 PM
 

to players or coaches.

You win as a team and lose as a team.

Team = coaches and players.

The team deserves credit for the win against Louisville, and also for the loss to Wake Forest.

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That’s the rah rah bullshyatt teams say in the

[3]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 9:30 PM
 

locker rooms and to the media. The truth is sports history is filled with both individual players and coaches who have won or lost games. I’d still love to get your thoughts on their matchup zone defense and our offensive sets against that zone. You obviously pay close attention to Clemson basketball and understand CBB’s system, so you’re the best person on this board to answer those questions!

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Re: That’s the rah rah bullshyatt teams say in the

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 10:37 PM
 

Without trying to sound ghey, this team has fought through key injuries and didn’t look great at times this season, but they didn’t represent as if a bunch of princesses either, laying down and expecting it to be handed to them. Instead, they beat teams no one expected them to, like warriors. Ones that, despite the record, I’m proud of.

And insinuating known supporters of being coots, fair weather or calling them,
“Karen” is small.

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Your post is hilarious! You win the internet today!***

[1]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 11:51 AM
 



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wlc

Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 6:44 PM
 

Nice list of potential hires to replace BB.

Now do the list of those that would come to a known-for-football school after we fire the coach that beat UNC at UNC (never done before) and 2 top 5 teams in the same year - and at the pay we could offer him and his staff - because of something he said to a reporter.

BB runs a clean program in a sport full of dirty programs at a not-urban football school. Basketball is an urban sport- everyone at the top of the ACC are located in urban areas and have recruiting advantages. With the talent he has, we are rarely blown out and usually in games at the end with teams that are ranked much higher than we are and are more traditional basketball schools.

Yes, BB has had to change with the game and become more Offense minded, and that has been hard to watch sometimes. Get over it, he ain't goin nowhere.

link

Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately


Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 7:02 PM
 

People keep saying 2 top 5 wins.
They are 6 and 11.
Still good - but clearly not both top 5.
I know, people will say they were when we won. But to me, that is not how I look at it. I look at years end.

link

That's a weird way of looking at it.

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 9:08 PM
 

We are part of the reason why they are no longer top five. We beat them.

Regardless, this team has done something that no Clemson basketball team in over 40 years has done.

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I was saying something similar in 2003...

[3]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 9:17 PM
 

“Over the last four games of the 2003 season, (Tommy) Bowden defeated two coaches that had already earned 200 career wins – to become the first coach in NCAA history to accomplish the feat in just a month's time. (Those coaches were his father, the legendary Bobby Bowden, and Lou Holtz).”

I hope you have better luck than I did. :(

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It will be interesting to see if Brownell can keep

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 9:19 PM
 

the momentum going better than Bowden did.

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I hope he does, I like CBB a lot...

[4]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 9:24 PM
 

but he’s got to finish strong this season and win next season. That’s the bottom line. He’s got to win.

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Not sure how saying I like CBB but he's got to win...

[4]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 9:29 AM
 

gets a TD?

It's small.




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Re: Not sure how saying I like CBB but he's got to win...


Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 12:26 PM
 

Eeeeeh. Try again. Check with the guy that TD’s every post I make regardless of content. Maybe he got a little carried away and TD’d you by accident...

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Re: It will be interesting to see if Brownell can keep

[2]
Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 9:34 AM
 

Yep - me too Judge ... Certainly hope he can do it !! Pulling for Brad as hard as I can !!-<img border=">">">

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Re: If this is true, Brownell should be fired immediately


Posted: Feb 17, 2020, 7:24 PM
 

This has a lot to do why we are winning games now. Teams prepare for CLEMSON to make them shoot 3's since CLEMSON is horrific at shooting 3's. Suddenly the 3's are going in, and our opponents are not ready for that and cannot adjust quickly enough. They also plan to put us on the foul line since we suck as a team shooting FT's. Now we are making way more FT's and it's allowing us to actually look like we know what we're doing.

Now you know the real reason why we've beaten some good teams. Live and die by the 3.

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This is bullcrap


Posted: Feb 18, 2020, 11:52 AM
 

There are only a couple of things that can change.Do they start with one man or two man front, are they trapping, and personnel. If you can recognize that, then you can make a plan.

Brownell is smart enough to know this. I didn't watch much of the game, but I suspect it was more execution.

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