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CU Medallion [55848]
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All-In [49250]
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I had to look up a couple words.
Nov 19, 2019, 7:38 AM
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like, poltroonery.
I think the Dems are more about politics than saving the Constitution, and I guess the Pubs are more about judges and getting re-elected than speaking the truth about Trump. Seems like Trump turned the pump on backwards when he started draining the swamp.
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CU Medallion [55848]
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if I had to pinpoint when this began in earnest, I'd say it
Nov 19, 2019, 10:26 AM
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was Dubya's run up to the Iraq War. ######## intelligence about WOMD, no coalition, etc. He basically started a private war. Not. Good.
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All-In [42298]
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Re: if I had to pinpoint when this began in earnest, I'd say it
Nov 19, 2019, 10:57 AM
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I would concur with this as the moment things really started to take a turn. This was more of a result of Cheney's interpretation of the Constitution that the executive branch could do whatever it wanted.
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All-In [48078]
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All-In [28802]
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Oh, please
Nov 20, 2019, 12:41 PM
[ in reply to if I had to pinpoint when this began in earnest, I'd say it ] |
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George W. Bush's administration never did anything without solid legal backing. This idea that the Bush administration had a "private war" and thought it could "do whatever it wanted" is just more hyperbole and historical revision.
Progressives only pay lip service to constitutionalism, which they mostly see as an impediment when it's viewed as anything other than a loose set of principles that enable their vision. Donald Trump has neither vision or care about legal authority. Everything is post hoc with him because he doesn't know or care about political norms. That's a different thing than George W. Bush or progressivism, even if progressivism might be more dangerous in the long run.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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110%er [6101]
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All-In [42298]
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Re: I agree with the thesis of this article.
Nov 19, 2019, 10:55 AM
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Yep, this is a good piece. I loved this line:
"This is a sea change in government, an abandonment of ethics and values on a scale very possibly not seen since Caesar’s rise to power. It’s also a domestic variety of dastardly Chamberlainian appeasement — and though thankfully not equal in consequence, it’s equal in principle, encouraging Trump to dare increasingly brazen violations of his oath of office."
I have felt we have empowered the executive branch too much over the last few decades with disregard to our Constitution, and now we are truly being tested on it with a demagogue as president.
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Lot o points [156089]
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I don't think the executive branch has been actively
Nov 19, 2019, 10:57 AM
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empowered over that time. Rather it's a passive empowerment based on the legislative branch generally abdicating their power and duties by putting their heads in the sand when it comes to potentially unpopular topics.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I don't think the executive branch has been actively
Nov 19, 2019, 7:34 PM
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Agreed. It is hard to weigh in on difficult issues when you'll do anything to get re-elected. It's become about raising money and talking a lot about things that don't actually effect most american but may inflame their passions.
Congress has suffered a less than 20% approval rating for 3 decades. Yet, we American's re-elect incumbents 95% of the time.
Unfortunately, we've got the government we deserve.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: I don't think the executive branch has been actively
Nov 19, 2019, 7:58 PM
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Most Americans have the attention span of a gnat. We worship fame and celebrity and continually mistake Hollywood Actors and Famous Athletes as people of importance. We are led like sheep by small snippets of “news” and edited content purposely designed to create and reinforce social and political beliefs. People unwittingly accept this manufactured reality that strips them of the capacity for independent thought.
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Hall of Famer [20547]
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All-In [28802]
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The stuff about the Constitution is mostly melodramatic
Nov 20, 2019, 12:38 PM
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The stuff about the potential for long lasting problems because of Trump's character seems right to me. As I think you believe, the penchant for ignoring the Constitution in order to achieve preferred ends has been around for a while. But the American people should bear at least as much of the blame for abandoning constitutionalism as the politicians they elect should bear.
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Replies: 12
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