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Orange Blooded [4021]
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What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 9:40 AM
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Trumpkins, what would Trump be doing to stop inflation if he were currently POTUS? I'm sure you guys have the answers, so let's hear them. I'd be embarrassed for you if you couldn't answer this.
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All-In [26518]
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There wouldn’t be any ... so nothing***
Jul 20, 2021, 9:43 AM
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All-In [26518]
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Dems create a problem ... and when the mud gets deep
Jul 20, 2021, 9:48 AM
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They ask Pubs ... so how would you fix it ...
LOL
See
Border crisis
Crime riddled cities
Western wildfires
Etc
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Oculus Spirit [97782]
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: As I recall.....
Jul 20, 2021, 10:05 AM
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This is embarrassing for Trumpkins who try to argue that it's Biden's "free money" causing the inflation. Where are they going to move the goal posts next?
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All-In [31520]
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Re: As I recall.....
Jul 20, 2021, 10:11 AM
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It does crack me up when people pretend like 2/3 of the stimulus bills weren't passed by a Republican senate and signed by a Republican president.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: There wouldn’t be any ... so nothing***
Jul 20, 2021, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to There wouldn’t be any ... so nothing*** ] |
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This is actually a very accurate response. Much like COVID-19, MAGA would be pretending it doesn't exist.
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All-TigerNet [13163]
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Re: There wouldn’t be any ... so nothing***
Jul 20, 2021, 4:59 PM
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MAGA created the vaccines, dipsht.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: There wouldn’t be any ... so nothing***
Jul 20, 2021, 6:26 PM
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Starter [354]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 9:44 AM
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He would put a ban on all pumps, compressors, bellows, and pursed lips.
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110%er [9046]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 9:49 AM
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i knew you would be back asking for help with the mess *Biden made
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110%er [9046]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 9:51 AM
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increase the supply of energy
relax trucking regulations with regard to age, to increase the supply of drivers
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 10:04 AM
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Do you have a link to back any of that up?
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110%er [5696]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 10:14 AM
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He's right. Much of the price increase for consumer goods is due to increased transportation costs.
If you were a true patriot, you would only eat what you grow to help save the planet.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 10:20 AM
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What did Biden do to create these transportation costs?
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110%er [5696]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 7:38 PM
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Cut off prospects of the Keystone pipeline from Canada. Biden admin is blatantly anti-fossil fuel which will inhibit oil production and traders see it coming. Thus, higher prices.
The admin is pushing renewable fuels tax credits and other subsidies that do not require legislation. This is causing refiners to change over from gas to renewable diesel for example because it is more profitable. Less gas in the market also causes the price to increase.
A good summary of federal programs in Appendix A of this doc. Many of these programs exist perpetually or semi-perpetually, but the administration can dial them up and down.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40913.pdf
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Orange Blooded [3720]
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110%er [9046]
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Re: I want to be a patriot
Jul 20, 2021, 11:06 AM
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better have more than juan of each, comrade BT will arrive to take a pig, for the good of the community
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Rock Defender [54]
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I’m embarrassed for you for posting this thread
Jul 20, 2021, 10:23 AM
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I’m embarrassed for you for posting this thread
Jul 20, 2021, 10:34 AM
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Desperate and pathetic from you. You are blaming Biden for free money even though Trump himself is on record for wanting even more free money. I feel like I'm taking lunch money from the slow kid at the bus stop.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I’m embarrassed for you for posting this thread
Jul 20, 2021, 10:40 AM
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: I’m embarrassed for you for posting this thread
Jul 20, 2021, 10:47 AM
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You did not tell us what Trump would be doing different to stop inflation, even though he is on record for saying he wanted to do more for the money supply. Another fail on your part. Would you like to try again?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I’m embarrassed for you for posting this thread
Jul 20, 2021, 11:14 AM
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Government covid unemployment benefit is the largest cause of inflation IMO. Those benefits needed to stop months ago. This is causing a massive shortage of workers. Companies are having to pay workers a lot more money to come to work which drives up the cost of production. Also, shortage of labor means a shortage of production which means a shortage of consumable goods which drives up the cost.
I would like to think a republican president would actually listen to businesses and end the unemployment benefits ASAP
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [31932]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: That chart of the money supply was all under Trump's...
Jul 20, 2021, 2:36 PM
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All-In [31932]
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Yeah but that takes a lot of steam out of your argument....
Jul 20, 2021, 3:04 PM
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the inflation happening now is not solely impacted by all of the relief that happened under Biden and a dem-controlled Senate. The graph you posted all happened under Trump and a GOP-controlled Senate.
In fact, I would argue that there hasn't been enough time yet in 2021 for the relief packages passed under Biden to have complete impact.
Also, the money supply isn't the sole driver and may not even be the primary driver to the inflation we're seeing now. It's a LOT more complicated than that IMO.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Yeah but that takes a lot of steam out of your argument....
Jul 20, 2021, 3:15 PM
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All-In [31932]
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What exactly IS your business that gives you so much...
Jul 20, 2021, 4:26 PM
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more insight into inflation than I have. Seriously....what do you do?
What is weird though is why you can't simply have a conversation without beating your chest and claiming you "just know more".
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: What exactly IS your business that gives you so much...
Jul 20, 2021, 4:42 PM
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All-In [31932]
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What specifically do you do in the financial industry?...
Jul 20, 2021, 8:35 PM
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And what about that job makes your word on macroeconomics unassailable?
I don't claim to be the be all and end all on macroeconomics, but I consider myself pretty well schooled on the subject. I bet I took as many courses in economics as you did with a finane degree...I took micro, macro, money and banking, engineering economics, managerial economics, intermediate macro, and one more that I can't remember. I got some undergrad grant money and started work on MBA w Finance focus until I ran out of $$...but anyway that's not really the point.
The point is that instead of debating or discussing issues you go back to your degree vs my degree I'm 50 and what I studied in college 30 yrs ago doesn't factor all that much over what I've studied and learned since then.
Not for nothing but I do run a company that sources globally and sells globally. I know a good bit, first-hand about what's driving up material pricing, labor costs, how selling prices are controlled, and so on.
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Rock Defender [54]
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LOL
Jul 20, 2021, 10:11 PM
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All-In [31932]
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So what do you do specifically?***
Jul 20, 2021, 11:46 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: So what do you do specifically?***
Jul 21, 2021, 12:21 AM
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Hall of Famer [20546]
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Re: So what do you do specifically?***
Jul 21, 2021, 12:35 AM
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You do seem to know money matters very well.
Not taking potshots. When you talk money I start listening.
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All-In [31932]
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So why aren't you capable of debating a topic...
Jul 21, 2021, 6:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: So what do you do specifically?*** ] |
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Without just saying..."you're wrong because I know more"?
I find your assertion that I just "think" I know what I'm talking about because I got an engineering degree 30 yrs ago, because you know am engineering professor or something serious amazing.
I don't post on a topic if I don't know something about it. Doesn't mean I'm always correct, but I'm not just slinging BS here.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: So why aren't you capable of debating a topic...
Jul 21, 2021, 11:32 AM
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All-In [31932]
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It's because you can't/don't debate a topic...
Jul 21, 2021, 11:57 AM
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i made a valid point and your reply is "I know better".
Frankly, I seriously doubt you being in a finance role puts you in a better position than me...experience-wise to discuss current inflation drivers. I actually make, buy, sell, and hire people and things.
We are a self-contained entity here for the most part. I have a CFO that reports to me and he has a CPA on his staff. Our CPA doesn't know a dang thing about macro economics to be frank. Our CFO does to come extent, but he's mainly focus on financial analysis and improvement projects I ask him to run. I have the P&L responsibility....meaning managing all aspects of the business. It's funny you mention our finance folks in Germany...I had a teams call with the CFO for the group yesterday and inflation impact and outlook was one of the main topics. The call was to get my input on the situation...a guy with a mere engineering degree LOL. So, in other words, you assume too much and don't really have a grasp of what other's know or don't know simply by their degree and title.
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All-In [42219]
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He didn't challenge your career expertise
Jul 21, 2021, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: So why aren't you capable of debating a topic... ] |
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However, if people who are in that business like me and Dawghater, maybe you should say okay you might know a little more than me. I also know a little about coding too but if Stubborn says something, I’m likely gonna say “yeah you’re right.”
He said this about your chart post:
That chart of the money supply was all under Trump's administration, wasn't it?
That's it. And he was right. Your chart didn't show what you thought it did. He didn't challenge your knowledge of economics. He challenged your ability to back up your argument with the correct data.
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All-In [42219]
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Re: LOL
Jul 21, 2021, 8:01 AM
[ in reply to LOL ] |
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...but engineers always think they know their job plus everyone else’s job better than they do.
For once, we somewhat agree. Not that I think Flow is like this or that all of them are like this, but yeah, I've come across this a lot. At least from the Clemson realm.
But in this thread, Flow isn't claiming to be an expert on anything.
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All-In [42219]
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So flow punches a gaping hole in your argument/chart
Jul 21, 2021, 7:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Yeah but that takes a lot of steam out of your argument.... ] |
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Which you somehow posted to prove your point, yet only served to incriminate the Trump admin and GOP. And in classic fashion, you respond with "Well that’s why you’re not in my business even though you still keep acting like you know more," instead of, "Oops, yeah, I guess that does show that."
Which is the ONLY correct response because that's what your graph shows.
Maybe--just maybe, T3--both the Pubs AND the Dems (and Trump) are responsible for this inflation?
And yes, it's more complicated than stimulus money.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: So flow punches a gaping hole in your argument/chart
Jul 21, 2021, 11:23 AM
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All-In [42219]
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Re: So flow punches a gaping hole in your argument/chart
Jul 21, 2021, 11:47 AM
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I never claimed to be an economic expert but it doesn't take more than a couple of AP econ classes to know how this basic stuff works. Are the Dems guilty of contributing to this inflation? Absolutely. Are Trump and the Pubs also guilty? Yes. Your graph shows that. This is bipartisan failure.
Looks like we agree. To Flow's point, the inflation issue is more complicated than just the stimulus, but the stimulus certainly contributed.
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All-In [31932]
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Again, the graph you posted was only for 2020...
Jul 21, 2021, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: So flow punches a gaping hole in your argument/chart ] |
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and dated Jan 13, 2021. It didn't show anything about what was done in 2021.
Your accounting of the history of the stimulus in 2020 is sure not how I remember it. The gop-led Senate and the Trump WH was certainly not pushing for half of what the final tallies were. That just simply isn't true and I say that as someone who supported a good bit of the initial CARES package. I did not support the Dec 2020 package nor the 2021 stimulus and I'm in complete agreement with you on those being unwise and the dems still pushing for more as we speak.
I still doubt you have all that much direct experience in dealing with inflation drivers, but that's another ball of wax all together.
Still amazed by how you define other's knowledge strictly on their job title or function...it's telling on how you must value yourself.
I'm an EE by education and came up through the sales side of the business....but I'm also an IT guy and I've never had a bit of education or training...yet I know a lot about networking, server admin, databases, ERP systems, etc...By your account, I should never be in an IT discussion with someone with a Computer Science degree. It's such a narrow and naive way to look at the world...it must really be quite limiting for you personally.
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All-In [42219]
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Here, T3, I can help.
Jul 21, 2021, 12:02 PM
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As you can see from your graph, this data was compiled on Jan. 13.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Here you go
Jul 21, 2021, 12:15 PM
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All-In [42219]
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Re: Here you go
Jul 21, 2021, 12:40 PM
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Yep, that's better. And for the record, I do agree with you. There's not a question the actions of the Biden admin and Congress have contributed to this inflation. Like Flow, I don't believe that's the sole cause but it certainly is a major one.
I was on vacation all last week. Sorry.
Part of my reason jumping in here is that you're once again accusing people of doing stuff that you do. You say you're an expert in your field and people shouldn't question your views on it, yet you repeatedly challenge other in areas where they know more. Which, really, I don't have a problem with it; it's a message board and everyone has opinions. So it doesn't really matter. But you shouldn't get upset when other people have economic opinions. Since you know more as you say, just prove them wrong.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Hope you had a nice vacay
Jul 21, 2021, 12:44 PM
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All-In [42219]
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Word to that.***
Jul 21, 2021, 1:11 PM
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All-In [31932]
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I'm glad you pasted in the M2 graph as well now...
Jul 21, 2021, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to Here you go ] |
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I was finding it a bit odd that you had posted an M1 graph with YOY % change.
Isn't the M2 measure what most economists would look at when talking about money supply and potential impact on inflation?
The banks a packed/flush with cash right now. A bigger concern to me is what happens when/if that money gets lent out. The Fed may not be able really control the effective money supply after that. THAT will become a main driver of inflation, if it happens.
Anyways, the M2 graph shows the steepest jump in Q1-Q2 2020 and then a steady increase after a brief leveling period.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I'm glad you pasted in the M2 graph as well now...
Jul 21, 2021, 2:18 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [42219]
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That's not what you're asking to be done
Jul 21, 2021, 12:13 PM
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When a flaw in your argument was pointed out, you fell back into "I know more about this than you and you should defer to that." But no one was questioning your expertise. They were challenging your argument and the data you used to support it. That's a valid issue. If Flow starts telling you how to do your job, sure, you'll have a valid point.
####, I've got 20 clowns here who think they know more about journalism than I do and I just go along with the debates.
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Hall of Famer [21954]
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All-In [31932]
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Well...world-wide labor shortage is...
Jul 20, 2021, 4:31 PM
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one for sure.
Shipping lanes and port congestion lengthening the supply times putting squeeze on raw material is one.
COVID recovery driving up demand outpacing supply is one.
And additional cash infusion by the government is one too...I never mean to say it's not a factor.
My point is it's not the ONLY factor and maybe not even the primary factor.
If money supply was the primary driver, then one could ask where was all of the inflation last year?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Well...world-wide labor shortage is...
Jul 20, 2021, 4:51 PM
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Hall of Famer [21954]
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I agree with some of the themes here
Jul 20, 2021, 5:24 PM
[ in reply to Well...world-wide labor shortage is... ] |
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I agree with the supply chain issues being outside the scope of monetary policy, and playing a significant role in the inflation issues.
Labor shortages, Covid demand recovery, and the cash infusion by the government - I would argue - are all related to monetary policy. And cash infusions aren't just stimmies...include PPP, interest rates, and QE in there as well.
You did leave out the energy print that's the largest categorical driver currently in the CPI yoy data. So based on the way the BLS calculates the CPI, that's the largest driver of inflation right now (up 24.5%).
Your last question's a little confusing to me. Answer TL;DR: In May 2020, CPI was 0.1%. Latest print for June was 5.32%. So we've had a pretty healthy climb over the past year lol.
I assumed this was obvious, but last year (late Q1, Q2) we were in a reflationary period, similar to every other recessionary cycle in the fiat currency era, during peak covid.
Around Q3, you could argue inflationary pressures were beginning to show themselves in housing costs (monetary policy - interest rates) and that the bulk of the liquidity dumped went to the markets (check the tape) to inflate asset prices. Also in Q3, you can see the cost of materials, parts, etc. were climbing from the bottom found around the same time we released the first spending bill (check the tape).
The BLS shows a steady climb in CPI prints starting around May 2020, which was where the CPI hit bottom. I believe the first spending bill was signed around the end of March?
What else is interesting, is that we had found an equilibrium in CPI prints from September '20 to January '21 (consistent prints of around 1.4%). Then, since Feb onwards it's been roaring. If I'm not mistaken, we've signed some relief packages, to the tune of a couple trillion, around that time frame.
So...if you look at the tape, from the CPI to the markets, there's a pretty apparent correlation for when the government injected a ton of capital to various increases.
Based on the activity in the bond market this week, looks like the market is shrugging off this inflation ########...so we'll see.
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All-In [31932]
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A couple of quick replies....
Jul 20, 2021, 8:44 PM
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On the energy side, there is a reason energy is largely excluded from core inflation...it's too volatile to look at in short snap shots. But also a good example of a global commodity not directly impacted by US monetary policy (at least not in the context of this discussion).
On the money supply question...I think it is as much correlation than it is causation.
But to summarize I just take issue when someone says the money supply is the cause of inflation...it is a lot more complex and more complicated than that. And sure as sheet trying to hang all of the money supply increase at the feet of Biden is downright idiotic....especially when a graph is posted of money supply increase that all happened under Trump.
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Hall of Famer [21954]
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Re: A couple of quick replies....
Jul 21, 2021, 9:32 AM
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Do you think we'd have this level of inflation without the monetary policies put in place by the Fed and the UST over this time?
I never said it was a red v blue issue. This is a Uniparty issue. I've expressed my distaste for Donny Pump's first covid bill on multiple occasions here (not sure if that was directed at me or not).
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All-In [31932]
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No, the OP was what would MAGA do about this inflation....
Jul 21, 2021, 10:50 AM
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and many were claiming it wouldn't be happening if he was still in office/it's Biden's fault.
On your first question, it's hard to say and I think you have to get a bit more specific on type of product/market.
I think you would be seeing inflation on manufactured and imported goods regardless of the monetary policy due to global material/labor shortages, covid shut-downs, logistics CF, etc...
The increase in money supply so sharply over a short period is certainly having an impact in certain markets. Consumer spending driven markets, for example.
But take energy that you mentioned above (and I'm assuming you mean oil/gas prices). Oil is a global commodity and the price is rising, primarily, due to increased global demand. As COVID has been "controlled" in many countries, more people are returning to work, traveling, etc...I don't think you can really tie that directly back to the increase in US money supply. Now...you CAN say more people are also traveling due to stimulus payments...and I would agree with that....but it isn't the sole driver.
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Hall of Famer [24484]
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A red letter day, decades in the making. Conservatives have
Jul 20, 2021, 10:25 AM
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been warning that deficits and debts are a devaluing of currency. The reaction was a hand wave, no worries, nothing to see here. When Birmingham asks about it, we can assume the message has been finally received. Too late. But received.
"Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn at no other."
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All-In [34627]
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kinda like defunding the popo...not going good for the idiot
Jul 20, 2021, 10:32 AM
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libbies
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Hall of Famer [24484]
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Middling try. No dice. Try harder.***
Jul 20, 2021, 11:36 AM
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: Middling try. No dice. Try harder.***
Jul 20, 2021, 7:14 PM
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I don't need to try harder when you're waving the white flag of surrender.
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Oculus Spirit [83135]
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Orange Blooded [3720]
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Didn't we print $5T
Jul 20, 2021, 10:49 AM
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under both Dems and Repubs?
Hmmmm wonder what happens when you do that?
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Oculus Spirit [97782]
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You reelect whoever spends the most?
Jul 20, 2021, 11:00 AM
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Seems to be the conventional wisdom in DC.
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Orange Blooded [3720]
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your member of Congress stinks
Jul 20, 2021, 11:03 AM
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and is the problem
Mine is awesome, so I'm going to reelect them
I think that's how it goes
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Oculus Spirit [97782]
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Yeah, uncontested primaries SUCK.
Jul 20, 2021, 11:20 AM
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I mean if you're a republican and don't like Trump, well, you had no options in SC, as the state GOP cancelled the primaries.
I just vote in primaries nowadays. Best vote you can make IMO. My guy never wins. If they win, I'd vote for them in the general election. But I'm tired of holding my nose to vote in a general election.
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Hall of Famer [21954]
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same thing these ######## are doing
Jul 20, 2021, 11:18 AM
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more Uniparty ########. Fed would be saying it's transitory, QE would still be ripping, rates would still be low. Only difference would be the media coverage, and which colored ants were screaming about it.
Donny Pump's dumb ### would screaming about how high the market is haha. Which, making money on that, so whatever. If you can't beat em, join em.
Xiden tweeted out that our 4th of July cookout would be $0.16 cheaper...it's all a ####### joke
Only difference in the "official" CPI calculation might be in energy costs (specifically fuel)...some people theorize that gasoline costs have risen due to pipeline closures. I haven't researched this so I don't have an opinion, other than, at a high level it makes sense and could play into it. But there's likely more demand pressures on the overall market that play into it, so it's likely not that simple.
I don't really care about gas prices as much as I do WTI. More fun to trade.
But hey, go team!
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Hall of Famer [24484]
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The hint of light at the end of the tunnel, though it might
Jul 20, 2021, 11:42 AM
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be a mirage, is that even leftists like Bham are talking about debts/inflation. Thought I'd never see the day. True, its just trolling at this point, and if Biden want's another 3 Trillion Bham will think its the greatest thing ever simply because Biden is a dem, but if the leftists are at least saying it maybe run of the mill libs are about to say 'enough' on spending/budgets.
I'm sorry, I was tripping there for a sec.
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Hall of Famer [21954]
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touche - I reckon the appropriate response here is
Jul 20, 2021, 4:06 PM
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What inflation?
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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Re: The hint of light at the end of the tunnel, though it might
Jul 20, 2021, 8:02 PM
[ in reply to The hint of light at the end of the tunnel, though it might ] |
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One of the things I have appreciated about Trump is how he exposed conservatives for the total frauds that they are for fiscal responsibility. Trumps tenure as POTUS showed us the "mirage" that conservatives really cared about the debt and deficit. Notice how Tulsa doesn't want to talk about how Trump did with the debt and deficit. LOL.
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Legend [16264]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 11:58 AM
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For starters, considering the financial geniuses that were Trump and Kudlow and Navarro, last spring and summer they would have seen the supply chain bottlenecks forming and would have addressed them at the time to help stave off future problems that have served as a bulwark behind most of today's inflationary pressures. With the virus constantly on the verge of miraculously going away at any moment, they would have stepped in to assist rental car companies so they wouldn't have had to fire sale so much inventory last year to stay alive (look at used car prices today - yikes!), they would have incentivized shipping companies to continue service even at under capacity so as to keep the mechanism intact once demand rebounded (which didn't even take that long), and they would have offered to purchase and stockpile lumber and construction equipment to a point where those industries would have also kept a production flow in place and people employed, kind of like they did with agribusiness to help counter the negative impacts of the tariff war. Hospitality and related service industries was the area that really got hit the hardest from an employment standpoint - not much you can do to help other than float those folks along until the economy swung back open. So they would focus on autos, shipping, and housing - emergency measures assisting three major and integral economic sectors and drivers. Voila.
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All-In [47774]
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#1, the Keystone pipeline would be moving forward.
Jul 20, 2021, 12:38 PM
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2, He would be kicking China's ####
3, The border would be under control
4, He wouldn't have re-negged on regulations
Shall I go on?
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All-In [31932]
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How do any of those points relate to current inflation?...
Jul 20, 2021, 12:54 PM
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and on point #2...how was he kicking China's a$$ when he was in office? In fact, couldn't one make the point that the tariffs he unilaterally introduced and the response in-kind from China was inflationary in nature and not deflationary?
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Legend [16264]
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Following Trump's exit from office, China is now a legit
Jul 20, 2021, 6:20 PM
[ in reply to #1, the Keystone pipeline would be moving forward. ] |
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world Superpower. That's how well that fat fraud ######## kicked China's #### in four years.
Excellent trolling on all 4 responses. 
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Hall of Famer [24131]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 2:51 PM
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Probably nothing. Trump governed like a moderate Democrat on most things.
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Orange Blooded [4701]
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Anyone with sense would stop printing money***
Jul 20, 2021, 4:29 PM
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Heisman Winner [111785]
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Re: What would MAGA be doing about inflation?
Jul 20, 2021, 4:37 PM
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Trump would probably dump more Fed money into the markets to make that bubble even bigger.
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Legend [18026]
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I also remember when Lumber price increase was Biden's fault
Jul 20, 2021, 4:38 PM
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but, weirdly, I haven't heard that argument over the past month or so.
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