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Tiger Titan [48843]
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There's a lot to unpack in that Chiefs game yesterday
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:46 AM
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And the responses from Chief folks say a lot about where our society is right now.
If you didn't see or don't care (but I'll mention anyway), the Chiefs seemingly won against the Bills on an insane backwards lateral pass play... but, the guy who caught it, Kadarius Toney, was blatantly lined up offsides. So, the play gets called back and the Chiefs wind up losing.
Patrick Mahomes had to restrained by teammates as he tried to go after the refs. After the game, Coach Andy Reid said: "Normally I get a warning before that’s called. A bit embarrassing for the National Football League for that to take place."
Wut... you get a warning that your player is committing a penalty and it's embarrassing when they actually call it?
Mahomes said: "It’s tough to swallow. Not only from me, and football in general, to take away greatness like that, for a guy like Travis to make a play like that, you want to see the guys on the field decide the game. They’re human. They make mistakes. But…"
But hold up... the refs didn't make a mistake. They made the right call. The Chiefs are mad that they were punished for a penalty that they committed.
And that's my overall point: The lack of accountability today. It's not my fault. I shouldn't be punished. Someone else is wrong for pointing out my mistake and holding me accountable for it. My little transgressions should be ignored. Let my mistakes slide and how dare you call it fair.
I used to have respect for Mahomes but now he's come across as a typical crybaby who wants no accountability.
And I feel like I see too much of that nowadays.
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Ring of Honor [22001]
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Mahomes should be the last one crying about officiating.
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:49 AM
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Dude gets as many calls as Brady did.
I have always respected his game and he's a #### good player, but his actions last night I'm sure changed a lot of people's minds about him.
I understand we all get caught up in the emotions when we are competitive, but to go on as long as he did was unprofessional and childish.
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Tiger Titan [48843]
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Agreed... I think if your teammates have to hold you back from refs...
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:51 AM
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Especially on an open/shut call like that, you deserve a fine and/or suspension. I get it if it's a questionable pass interference call or holding to be upset, but not on offsides.
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Tiger Titan [48480]
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Eh, I'm somewhere in the middle on this one.
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:51 AM
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For starters: Full stop, if guy is offsides and the ref calls that....wdf is he beyotching about?
On the other hand if that's something that normally comes with a warning first, I can see his point.
I have a buddy that is a HS football referee. He said they have to wade through certain infractions and if not overly egregious AND away from the play they tend to let those slide. The idea is to keep the flow of the game moving and not bog it down on infractions that don't impact play.
Like a hold by the left tackle on a toss sweep to the right. They will consider letting that one slide.
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TigerNet Champion [118101]
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His lining up offsides, while a penalty, had no bearing on the play
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:51 AM
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and that is what sucks. When you line up at WR, you ALWAYS check toward the ref and say whether you are on the line or not, and they typically would let you know if you are over or if you need to scoot up some to be on the line and not in the backfield. If Toney did this then the flag should not have been thrown. If he didn't do it, then yes, he committed a foul. I think Reid's issue is that normally the refs would not flag that and only warn the player on the first time, then maybe flags later. It's a stupid penalty to get called for, for sure.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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That's right...
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:03 AM
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the call was technically correct, but practically a bit touchy. Toney didn't ask for the Down Judge/Line Judge to spot him. That was a mistake. But, normally, that gets a warning and not a flag. One of those things, were both sides are right and both sides are wrong.
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Orange Immortal [65686]
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Well, the refs are flat out wrong, because they have created an expectation
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:06 AM
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that rules aren't that important and won't be enforced.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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Not how I see it, but ok.***
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:07 AM
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Orange Immortal [65686]
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Yes, it is okay!***
Dec 11, 2023, 10:09 AM
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Tiger Titan [48843]
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Let's look at the reaction
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:14 AM
[ in reply to Not how I see it, but ok.*** ] |
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Maybe refs tend to give warnings or heads up; but do you also want to be that ref called into league office for not enforcing a blatant penalty that occurs on a game-winning play? The Bills would have had far more of a reason to be upset if that play stood.
The best Andy Reid and Mahomes can come up with is, "Well, it was a penalty but it shouldn't have been called!"
That's a BS argument and points to this lack of accountability problem. Mahomes answer should have been more of a, "This is unfortunate and we made a mistake that we have to live with" instead of whining about it to the media and pitching a tantrum on the sideline.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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Like I said above...
Dec 11, 2023, 10:37 AM
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it's a technically correct call, but also touchy. It didn't impact the outcome of the play and it's often not called on players that are split-out. Why?...because it's not that easy to see from the player's perspective...hence being able to ask for a spot.
I'm not saying I think the Chiefs got screwed, but I'm understanding of Mahommes being pizzed after the play. Especially when he hadn't been able to really study it.
If I'm the QB and the team executes that play to win/take the lead and it's called back due to a WR being in the neutral zone...I'm instantly pizzed too.
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Orange Immortal [65686]
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And like I said, the only reason you'd have to be pizzed is because
Dec 11, 2023, 10:41 AM
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refs have, by not consistently enforcing the rule (doing their job), created an expectation in you that the rule should not have been enforced in this instance.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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No offense, but do you watch a lot of football?....
Dec 11, 2023, 11:36 AM
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Do you really think refs should call every technical infraction on every play or do you think that they strive for that?
There is a yuge amount of judgement and restraint in football officiating. As is often said, you could find holding on just about every play. Would you prefer that the refs called a minor hold away from the play every time? I sure wouldn't.
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Orange Immortal [64144]
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Top TigerNet [32856]
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he was well into the neutral zone
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Dec 11, 2023, 11:51 AM
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the bills would have just as much to gripe had that not been called.
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Orange Immortal [66554]
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Ultimate Tiger [33255]
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First time seeing this - lol - if the dude pivots 180 on his lead foot, hes
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to this isn't a technical infraction ] |
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ONSIDES for the defense - lol.
Look where not calling traveling in the NBA for the last 15 years has gotten us.
Throw the flag.
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Orange Immortal [65686]
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For the most part, yes.
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Dec 11, 2023, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to No offense, but do you watch a lot of football?.... ] |
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If it's 63-17 with 30 seconds to go, then no, I wouldn't call a hold away from the play. On the other hand, players are literally held on every play; players are taught to hold because they know it won't be called. The result is rampant holding, and that's not right; it's bad for the game. If refs would call it 5 times in a row, or consistently for a few games, and make it a point of emphasis, players and coaches would adjust pretty quickly. Same with PI; the way it is called now, defenders are allowed illegal early contact pretty consistently. I don't want rules ignored and the integrity of the game sacrificed so my conditioned short attention span can be dazzled with constant action. I love the sport of football too much. If want to be dazzled I'll borrow my daughter's Switch.
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Top TigerNet [31643]
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From the head official on the field - Cheffers
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to His lining up offsides, while a penalty, had no bearing on the play ] |
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"Ultimately, they are responsible for wherever they line up,'' Cheffers said. "No warning is required, especially if they are lined up so far offsides where they're actually blocking our view of the ball.
"We would give them a warning if it was anywhere close, but this particular one is beyond a warning.''
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Heisman Winner [81542]
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I was telling Sharkgirl as this happened that a bit of the
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Dec 11, 2023, 9:57 AM
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shine came off of Mahomes as that was happening. It is the first time he has faced in real adversity in his NFL career and he is having a meltdown. Let us not forget that the Chiefs got away with their tackle moving early for an entire season before they started busting him this year.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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First time he's faced adversity? Not sure how you can say that...
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:06 AM
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with the number of come-from-behind wins the man has in big games. He's something like 14-10 in come-from-behind wins when down over 10 points.
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Heisman Winner [81542]
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Becaues he won them. That is in game stuff,
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:17 AM
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not having to deal with a loss all week long. See what I'm saying?
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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Huh? He didn't win all of them...
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:30 AM
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like I said...I think he's something 14-10 in comebacks. It's the best ever for a QB, but that still means he lost 10 of them. And that doesn't count the closer losses.
And what about losing the Super Bowl to Tampa Bay/Tom Brady. He had a crap game in that game too. That doesn't count as adversity?
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Heisman Winner [81542]
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Go look at the win loss totals since he took over. 2 super bowl wins
Dec 11, 2023, 10:42 AM
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and never short of the AFC championship. That isn't really adversity. He is already sitting at 5 losses this year, 3 at home. Now the Chiefs probably won't lose another regular season game, but things aren't coming as easy this year as they have, especially when you consider they have lost 3 of the last 4 and the one win was against the hapless Raiders. He has hit one little bump in the road and behaved like a child and Andy Reid is letting him.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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Outside of being pizzed at the call last night...
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Dec 11, 2023, 11:33 AM
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how has he been behaving like a child otherwise?
Also, I think playing poorly and losing a super bowl is probably more of a bump in the road mentally than losing a few regular season games and still being in 1st place in the division.
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Heisman Winner [81542]
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Look man, we saw how he was carrying on and for how long.
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Dec 11, 2023, 11:55 AM
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That was acting like a child, plain and simple. His tantrum is exacly what people call acting like a child and you know it. And I'm telling you, dropping 3 of 4 in the middle of the season gets more heat than losing the big one, especially when you'd already won said big one. This website is evidence of that.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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One of us is misreading the other...
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Dec 11, 2023, 12:33 PM
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I had the impression that you were saying he's been acting like a child and Reid was letting him...meaning more than just how he behaved last night.
That's why I wrote "how has he been behaving like a child otherwise?"
I agree he carried on too long and lost his composure last night. Not debating you there. Has it been more than that?
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Heisman Winner [81542]
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Ah I see. No, he has been pretty much a model citizen, that is why I
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Dec 11, 2023, 12:45 PM
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say just some, as in a little bit, of the shine wore off. It isn't like Brady and Manning didn't both have thier moments, and I felt the same way. Remeber the "Idiot kicker" comment?
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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Yeah, Brady and Manning lost their sheet routinely on the sidelines***
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Dec 11, 2023, 1:07 PM
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Tiger Titan [48843]
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Did they ever have to be restrained after a ref made the right call?***
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Dec 11, 2023, 2:48 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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Probably....
Dec 12, 2023, 9:39 AM
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but you do get the thought that that call is not always made, right?
Doesn't it mean it wasn't a valid penalty and doesn't mean that Mahommes over-reacted. But the point stands that offsides on a wide-out is a really rare call. I watch way too much football and I can't recall the last time I saw that called...and yes...WR do line up that much offsides from time-to-time.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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voice-to-type sucks...
Dec 12, 2023, 9:41 AM
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"Doesn't mean it wasn't a valid penalty and doesn't mean that Mahommes didn't over-react."
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Orange Immortal [65686]
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Holding and pass interference are generally ignored as well. Then when
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:04 AM
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refs actually find their nutzack and do their jobs, players, coaches, announcers, and ignorant fans are outraged and mystified. Same with traveling and palming in basketball; it's ignored 98% of the time. It's all because refs, or perhaps their superiors, have decided to not enforce the rules. The result is a whole generation now of football and basketball players and fans who don't have any idea what the rules even are.
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Orange Immortal [64144]
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Clemson had that called a couple times this season
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:04 AM
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it was our Def lineman lining up offsides, but exact same thing. No difference in rule application.
That is the most basic of basics, lining up onsides. If you can't do THAT, well....not much sympathy given.
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Tiger Titan [48843]
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Right. There's nothing subjective about it...
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:06 AM
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And you would think someone in the NFL would know how to line up in the right spot each time.
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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Sorry, but that's not at all the same thing....
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:09 AM
[ in reply to Clemson had that called a couple times this season ] |
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There is a big difference between a DL being in the neutral zone and a split-out WR being in the neutral zone. It's the whole reason split-out WR/TE/RB get to ask the official to spot them on or off the line when they line up.
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TigerNet Champion [118101]
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Orange Immortal [65686]
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But both are infractions and should be called consistently, and not
Dec 11, 2023, 11:00 AM
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ignored or not called based on game situation, potential impact, score, time left on the clock, what the ref had for lunch, etc..
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Ultimate Tiger [35070]
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So if the ref sees a WR split far out that lets their finger drift in the...
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Dec 11, 2023, 11:46 AM
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neutral zone...that should be called every time in your book? Have you ever been in a football game and tried to tell if your on the ball or not that far out. It ain't that easy or clear.
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Orange Immortal [65686]
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Of course not. But the Chiefs have nothing to beotch about.***
Dec 11, 2023, 12:58 PM
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Orange Immortal [64144]
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my opinion, the biggest referee issue these day is the nonchalant spotting
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:15 AM
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of the ball on any given play. First downs are granted when guy goes out of bounds 2 yards short. Coaches have to "challenge" the spot much too often.
Why aren't refs positioned AT the 1st down line, looking down the line? They always come jogging up from 10 yards away and just place the ball wherever, blatantly wrong, and wave the chain gang up.
With the money the NFL has, if not possible to have a ref cover the line (which is KINDA important), why not hire one more referee for monitoring the 1st down line?
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Orange Immortal [64979]
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Saw that and agree ONE HUNDO.
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Dec 11, 2023, 10:41 AM
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I thought Mahomes was mad at Reid at first. Or a teammate. Then I see this morning they were mad at the refs. Look at the tape. That dude was so far offsides he was practically on the D line. If the ref saw that he HAD to call it. Otherwise, why even have the rule. Whiny assse bishes.
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Orange Immortal [64979]
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Clemson Icon [26767]
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Ask the Chiefs this.
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Dec 11, 2023, 2:18 PM
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If the DE was lined up offsides, and the other DE made a sack to end the game, would they think that it was as irrelevant as their penalty.
And, the flag came out as soon as the ball was snapped... its not like the refs waited to see the result and then threw the flag.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103626]
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I was watching TL yesterday and he threw a pass
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Dec 11, 2023, 2:27 PM
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his receiver gets hit just before the ball arrives. The tv guys are discussing if it's pass interference (not called) and the rules analyst says "that's a bang bang play". 5 hours later MsLovin and I put the kids to bed and went bang bang.
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Orange Immortal [66554]
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The ANCW really does sponsor some fantastic programs
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Dec 11, 2023, 2:30 PM
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Clemson Icon [26767]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103626]
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Haha
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Dec 11, 2023, 2:53 PM
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Not according to the partially dusted headboard she wasn't...
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Orange Immortal [64979]
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Clemson Sports Icon [57951]
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Re: There's a lot to unpack in that Chiefs game yesterday
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Dec 11, 2023, 2:35 PM
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Replies: 49
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