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Replies: 37
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 24, 2024, 6:42 PM
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While most people look at the portal one-dimensionally (simply filling immediate roster needs) others emphasize the less conspicuous, yet holistic effect on team morale.
FSU, despite aggressively using the portal to optimize their depth chart now look like a mediocre team only a year after Norvell was hailed as a forward-thinking, elite coach. FSU, partially because of the narrative around their portal usage, was pumped hard by the media and handed front-runner status. Now after two ugly losses, let’s see how their roster rallies.
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Solid Orange [1331]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 24, 2024, 6:55 PM
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One game isn’t a repudiation of the portal as a whole. It should serve to stop the over valuation of the transfer portal and curtail the lazy narrative.
You just don’t know if you have really replaced great players until their replacement plays on your team. Recruits or transfers. Question marks should remain question marks until you get an answer.
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Solid Orange [1331]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 24, 2024, 6:55 PM
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In other words I would’ve ranked FSU a soft top 20 this year based on what they lost last year.
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Solid Orange [1339]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 26, 2024, 6:45 AM
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Some now have itinerant laborers in college football, no education, no committment,, no contract...we will just rent you to play football for us till you find MO money somewhere else! If you can't make grades to stay here you are out, get hurt and you are out...not worth your pay...out! Lawyers and greed really fixed this one...a few years puttering around a few colleges and back to Micky D's or stealing hubcaps!
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Ring of Honor [23727]
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110%er [3884]
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Re: The wrong question is being asked.
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:35 AM
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We didn’t lose a lot to the draft and we aren’t relying on freshman recruits. I’m sorry that’s just a foolish thing to say.
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Ring of Honor [23727]
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6 freshman on the two deep.
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:45 AM
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Yes. Yes, we are.
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Rival Killer [3048]
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I'm gonna have to go ahead and kinda disagree there... yeah
Aug 27, 2024, 11:15 AM
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CU has approx. 10% (plus maybe a few percent) Freshmen on their 2-deep, well below the 25% rough makeup of Freshmen on the team.
This doesn't seem out of line to expectations or even the average out there (by the way, for comparison, portal champ FSU has 7 Freshmen on their 2-deep).
https://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/florida-state/90544
So, yeah, there is that...
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CU Medallion [20860]
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Our model is replacing draft picks, graduates, and portal exits with
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to The wrong question is being asked. ] |
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rising Seniors, Juniors, and Sophomores who are developing in our program plus the occasional ready-to-play Freshman.
Our HS recruiting class size is significantly smaller over the years on average than the peers we compete with championships for. Our competitors rely more on incoming Freshmen apparently than we do. When Dabo says our transfer portal is our locker room, you can believe it as the numbers back that up.
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Re: Our model is replacing draft picks, graduates, and portal exits with
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:47 AM
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Those numbers are for last season
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:50 AM
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We relied more heavily on freshmen in 2023 than any other school did.
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CU Medallion [20860]
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Re: Our model is replacing draft picks, graduates, and portal exits with
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: Our model is replacing draft picks, graduates, and portal exits with ] |
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Exactly. Look at all that rising Sophomore talent we have heading into the 2024 season, talent that didn't bolt through the portal looking for greener pastures, and talent that is even more likely to stick around for us further.
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Ring of Honor [23727]
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Commissioner [1274]
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Re: FSU's recruiting classes are right up there with ours.
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:55 AM
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It appears it does. You can’t fill your team with transfers then tell recruits they will get their chance to play. I feel that is something Dabo uses heavily on the recruiting trail. The portal is most helpful to .500 teams or teams that are willing to get in a bidding war for top recruits.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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I think their type of use of the portal has led to humiliation.
Aug 26, 2024, 9:04 AM
[ in reply to The wrong question is being asked. ] |
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I think they may suffer more this year.
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Rival Killer [2867]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 24, 2024, 6:58 PM
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FSU is infinitely better the last few years than the years leading up to the portal. It’s not a magic bullet just a way to fill needs.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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Rival Killer [2770]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 24, 2024, 7:11 PM
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To think they saw greatness in DJ . . is crazy. Based on two years with us, another year with another team . . what made them think so highly? or is it just all fluff and he's he best they could get? He hasn't changed. He's great on the 5-10 yard passes. He's much less than 50% on throws down field.
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Top TigerNet [29648]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 24, 2024, 7:29 PM
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really not that great on the 5-10 year passes. Those were the ones that were in the dirt or in the seats when he played for us. He is just an average QB that is slow.
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Tiger Titan [45850]
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Yeah all those transfers looked great
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Aug 24, 2024, 7:14 PM
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in the Orange Bowl.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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Thats an important point that people forget.
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Aug 24, 2024, 7:19 PM
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FSU’s roster essentially quit the team en masse. And it led to a historic program embarrassment that will stay in the history books forever.
It’s not just because they are transfers. It’s the nature of the BUYING your roster on top of recruited kids. It breeds a different CULTURE.
Culture is a long-term thing. Asbestos seemed awesome for many years.
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Athletic Dir [1112]
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Re: Thats an important point that people forget.
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Aug 24, 2024, 7:59 PM
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How did our holier than thou culture narrative help us last season in embarrassing losses against Duke, NCState and Miami? I hate the portal because of what it has done to the sport as a whole. It’s poisonous. I don’t think a team will be better off using it to the degree a FSU or many others do. However, no one can convince me that using it selectively at spots of need isn’t something Clemson shouldn’t be doing too. I appreciate all Dabo has done for us here. I am annoyed by what seems like a cavalier, stubborn, defiant attitude he has regarding using it.
Dabo’s dip in production lines up exactly to when the portal and NIL began to rear its ugly head. It’s hard to say the approach hasn’t hurt Clemson a lot more than it has helped it by ignoring it.
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Rival Killer [2770]
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Re: Thats an important point that people forget.
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Aug 24, 2024, 10:27 PM
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It seems very difficult tp manage it efficiently, the portal. There has to be a lot of resentment amongst players. You are recruited, figure to put in your time and some senior transfer is signed to play your position for one year. Sure, the ability of you greatly effects this, but it makes for a very uneasy feeling throughout the team members . . I would think? Now if you have an area of great need, then I would think this would be much less. so I agree that grabbing a few needed players could be beneficial.
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Offensive Star [317]
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Re: Thats an important point that people forget.
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:10 PM
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I’m not against using the portal in a limited fashion but our decline lines up with multiple misses at receiver, QB, and the loss of the best D-coordinator in cfb along with several very good assistant coaches. Dabo didn’t do a great job replacing those losses but I put much more weight in those factors than the transfer portal.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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You are just assuming that the dip was because of the portal. I disagree.
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: Thats an important point that people forget. ] |
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I think it was primarily coaching and missing on QB's and WR's.
I think 2 of the 3 have been addressed to some degree already.
And there is a big false dichotomy going on. Dabo isn't against players transferring in. In order to get good enough transfers you have to start spending huge amounts of cash on buying them. THAT risks a culture shift. We don't know the long-term implications of that yet. We had 11 wins just a couple years ago. Last year was bad. The 10 win season was a drop too. But we have not been knocked out yet. FSU is OBVIOUSLY beatable. We have a chance to prove their transfer approach did not put them above us. I'm eager to see our game vs them.
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Ring of Honor [23727]
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People seem to forget the embarrassing Duke loss and the recline of our ..
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Aug 25, 2024, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Thats an important point that people forget. ] |
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..offense for 3 to 4 years now. We could have used a WR last year; instead, our best WR was a freshman.
Ironically enough, FSU's transfer WR Coleman dropped the dagger in us during our loss last year at home. If that doesn't convince the anti-portalers, then nothing will.
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Commissioner [1274]
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Re: Thats an important point that people forget.
Aug 25, 2024, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thats an important point that people forget. ] |
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Dabos dip lines up with Covid, Recruiting a QB with exceptional arm talent just very in accurate, and NIL. I have mentioned this many times we do not have Billionaires will to hand out millions to get the star players. I do however think not using the portal is a tool Dabo has used to be able to get some 5 star recruits.
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Varsity [104]
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They had so many personnel losses that they had to restock.
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Aug 24, 2024, 11:15 PM
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They had no choice.
FSU wasn't doing the touting.
Let's not get blown out by UGa because if that happens, your narrative won't matter.
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Playmaker [354]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 25, 2024, 9:37 AM
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What bothers me about the portal - and I've seen almost no discussion of it - is that any time people are added to a team (any team...business or sport), the entire bonding process has to restarted and navigated by the entire team. As the group "forms", each person is asking how they fit in. That leads to "storming" and some dissension as they sort the pecking order out and guys begin to accept their roles to make the team successful. This part of "norming" gradually pulls them together to the point that they can truly focus on playing their role to the fullest, and all of them together begin to "perform"...what the military calls the esprit de corp... Each one knowing what the other is to be doing, and trusting that he will be there to do it when it counts. So many teams never get out of the forming and storming stages of development and you can clearly see it in their performance - or lack thereof - on the field. And the portal, almost by design, keeps teams out of sync.
Then, the nil breeds more of the storming concept. After their loss yesterday, the FSU Fries podcast guy ranted about the his nil guys. He said that the entire off season was spent listening to their demands for more money and other selfish desires and that FSU catered to them just to keep them in the fold. And then he shouted, "Where were they in the game today when we needed them?!!!"
Some teams do a better job of acclimating the new comers than others, but to me, there are just a couple of things that I believe hinder teams as we plunge deeper into this era of the sport.
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Rival Killer [3048]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
Aug 27, 2024, 11:34 AM
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Ah, the details to accompany what's already generally been covered at a high level with talk of the "culture" shift. Some can envision the details, but you've put words to it for others. Others may appreciate turning their light on.
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National Champion [7838]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
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Aug 25, 2024, 12:03 PM
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So FSU is Clemson last year?
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CU Medallion [20885]
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CSO
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Aug 25, 2024, 6:40 PM
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Did I read yesterday on Tnet that Ba Tech had more portal transfer starters than FSU? Accurate? IDK.
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Varsity [104]
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I don't know about more, but the numbers are close
Aug 25, 2024, 6:46 PM
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That includes Haynes King, the quarter back that beat FSU. He was at Texas A&M for 3 years before transferring to Tech.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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Maybe the did, but lets see how their program develops over the next 2 years.
Aug 26, 2024, 9:08 AM
[ in reply to CSO ] |
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My narrative is that teams who aggressively use the portal to bid for the best players their boosters can afford are charting new territory that we don’t know how it will look long-term.
Nobody knows if a dynasty is possible with this approach.
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Legend [6832]
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Re: FSU has been touted as a superlative case of building your team w/ transfers.
Aug 25, 2024, 6:49 PM
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Fla state brought in 39 transfers over the last 3 years. Is that team building or filling in a needed spot using the portal. By the way, you think all those guys came for free.
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Tiger Titan [50699]
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Georgia Tech has aggressively used the portal as well.
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Aug 26, 2024, 6:51 AM
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No one talks about that though, because that doesn’t fit the narrative here that the portal is bad.
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Tiger Titan [45850]
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Has it ever occurred to you that GT might suck too?***
Aug 26, 2024, 7:51 AM
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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Replies: 37
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