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All-TigerNet [5706]
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What do you liberals think of Bill Maher saying Trump is right
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Feb 11, 2025, 9:55 AM
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And that the Department of Education should be shut down?
He rightly called out the Democrats for stating how bad our kids are at reading and mathematics and using that as a justification to keep the department of education’s doors open.
No matter that our kid’s reading and mathematics performance has nose dived since the creation of the department of education in 1977
I know it’s sad for all the 3rd grade children who can’t read because, and are depending on the federal government and the department of education to develop some magic computer chip that can be implanted in their brains to make up for lost years and gross mismanagement of resources
As Maher rightly states - the DOE is nothing but a “middle man”
What say you liberals? Is the DOE the hill you want to die on?
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Clemson Icon [24892]
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Re: What do you liberals think of Bill Maher saying Trump is right
Feb 11, 2025, 10:25 AM
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Well, I watched that interview. He is just saying the Dept of Education is a mess and that our children aren't learning and that current system isn't working. That is all. I watch just about everything he puts out. That's his way of saying the system is broken. That is all.
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Top TigerNet [30455]
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Correct. And when something is broken that badly, its best to tear it down and
Feb 11, 2025, 10:36 AM
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rebuild it ...
or just discard it altogether.
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Clemson Icon [24892]
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Re: Correct. And when something is broken that badly, its best to tear it down and
Feb 11, 2025, 10:50 AM
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He isn't for getting rid of it all together. He doesn't know the solution. He is just bashing our education system. That is all.
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All-TigerNet [5706]
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Hasnt reforming and fixing it been tried?
Feb 11, 2025, 10:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: What do you liberals think of Bill Maher saying Trump is right ] |
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When do you admit that it’s a failed concept and start giving the power back to the states?
Now that the Democrats are the new defenders of the constitution - where does the federal government derive its power to meddle in education to start with?
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National Champion [7640]
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Re: What do you liberals think of Bill Maher saying Trump is right
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Feb 11, 2025, 10:41 AM
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Kids being illiterate when they graduate isn't a bug of the DOE, it's a feature.
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Re: What do you liberals think of Bill Maher saying Trump is right
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Feb 11, 2025, 10:41 AM
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Do red states have a plan to replace the money they currently receive from the DoE? Some of them rely on federal handouts for more than 20% of their funding.
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All-TigerNet [5706]
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I dont believe money makes kids smarter
Feb 11, 2025, 11:05 AM
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Or teachers teach better
And I don’t think big gymnasiums or marble lobbies help kids learn to read or learn mathematics
I think that’s a lie propagated by the teachers union and administrators that haven’t taught in 20years
Our kids were taught better reading and arithmetic in one room school houses by one teacher than they are in these big buildings led by a bunch of bureaucratic woke administrators dancing to the federal puppet strings
So in summary, they can keep their stinking money and their stupid strings they attach to it
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TigerNet Icon [152049]
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Let's see if less money makes them smarter.
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Feb 11, 2025, 11:16 AM
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That has to be true, according to your logic.
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All-TigerNet [5706]
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Dynasty Maker [3236]
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I think Education Reform, including paring back the DoEd is not a bad idea....
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Feb 11, 2025, 10:46 AM
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But it can't be done unilaterally.
Trump has congressional majorities. The way this should work is they pass a bill, and then he implements what they pass.
Trump wants to basically destroy Congress' power of the purse, and I think that will be struck down by the courts.
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All-TigerNet [5706]
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I question the premise of you argument that the DOE
Feb 11, 2025, 11:08 AM
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Is constitutionally valid
What section of the US constitution gives the federal government the right to mess with education?
Also, the Biden administration chose not to enforce many laws passed by congress and you liberals didnt raise a peep. Where is this new found constitutional principle coming from?
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Ultimate Tiger [34898]
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That's the crux of the issue and is why the Dept of Ed doesn't really...
Feb 11, 2025, 11:18 AM
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dictate education policy directly (in almost all cases) but rather through funding.
A state or school district only has to comply with the federal mandates if it wants the federal funds.
This source says ~15% of education funding in SC comes from federal funds. That's a little higher than I thought, but it does mention SC is 3% above the national avg.
https://usafacts.org/answers/what-percentage-of-public-school-funding-comes-from-the-federal-government/state/south-carolina/
The real question to me has always been...if we chose not to comply with the federal mandates...how much overhead could be trimmed? Meaning...how many admin positions exist just to monitor compliance, etc and how much time is taken up complying?
In SC, about 40% of the state budget is for education and about 30% of local property taxes goes to education.
I would gladly pay 40% * 15% = 6% more in state income taxes (6.4% rate to 6.8% rate) and 4.5% more in property taxes to get the federal government completely out of public education.
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Dynasty Maker [3236]
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If you question the constitutionality of the Dept of Ed, then go to the courts..
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Feb 11, 2025, 12:56 PM
[ in reply to I question the premise of you argument that the DOE ] |
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There are ways to make reforms to our executive branch that aren't blatantly lawless. Trump seems to want to rule as a quasi-Dictator. But he can't do that. He can't just annihilate an agency simply because he doesn't like them. He has to work with Congress.
I'm not against spending cuts and reforms. But a lawless president destroying anything he hates isn't the way to do it.
And BTW, if you allow this now, he won't stop with stuff you hate. He'll go after something you like. When you vote for the "Leopards Eating Faces" party, don't be surprised when they come after your face.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52194]
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Yall overestimate how much say the USDOE has in your child's education***
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Feb 11, 2025, 10:47 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11332]
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My kids are out of school - but my main memory is "No Child Left Behind" which
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Feb 11, 2025, 11:00 AM
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turned into "No Child Too Far Ahead". That was a debacle...maybe they stay out of it now, as you say.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52194]
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As with most things in education, they start out as great ideas and the
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Feb 11, 2025, 11:05 AM
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implementation gets bungled.
NCLB was mainly for records keeping of making sure students do not "disappear"
For example, each student has to be tracked. If they move schools the other school has to request records etc and then that school is responsible for them.
Just like setting passing grade from 70 to 60 they were suppose to increase rigor where 60 was the new 70 but that didn't happen either.
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Orange Elite [5413]
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Ring of Honor [22053]
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South Carolina Dept of Education gets 16% of their funds from Federal sources
Feb 11, 2025, 10:48 AM
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Fine to cut out the Fed Department of Education if State and Local Governments provide funds through taxes and properly administer to:
1) Maintain or improve funding for special needs education programs including pre-K, IEP, nutrition assistance and other services for challenged children in ALL school districts.
2) Maintain or improve compensation for teachers and other educators to ensure competitive positions
3) Provide physical facilities and technology assets in ALL districts to ensure fulfillment of educational needs (especially in STEM).
These objectives need to be met regardless of the socio-economic composition of the school district or county. ALL children need to have access to good educational opportunities that meet certain basic standards.
Judging from of roads and highways in South Carolina, State and local government cannot generate revenue to adequately meet community needs. It would be unfortunate to see our children’s and grandchildren’s education and future compromised by short sighted local politicians who underfund education. Theoretically local funding and control of education should be better. Nobody likes taxes but in most cases people get what they pay for.
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National Champion [7763]
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Didn't they just "find" a couple billion they didn't know about?
Feb 11, 2025, 11:10 AM
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Seems like revenue isn't the problem.
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All-TigerNet [5706]
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What happened to local funding of education?
Feb 11, 2025, 11:23 AM
[ in reply to South Carolina Dept of Education gets 16% of their funds from Federal sources ] |
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Let counties and districts fund their education as they see fit
The whole argument is that education can be done so much better and so much more efficiently
The real problem is that we are taxed so much and inflation is so bad that 2 parents have to work 2 jobs each to make ends meet and don’t have any time to raise their kids and do the hard parenting work that’s required.
In days gone by, working class parents helped their kids with homework, got on them for poor grades and study habits and set an expectation for performance.
Now parents fall into a recliner dead tired and flip on Netflix while their kids surf TikTok on their phone
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Ultimate Tiger [34898]
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I call BS on that last part...
Feb 11, 2025, 11:46 AM
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as someone who agrees with you on the premise of local control and funding (see post below).
Families aren't working more now due to inflation and taxes...as a general statement. The big problem is that the avg American lives beyond their means and is in debt. Too many people are driving $40k cars making $50k/year. Living in homes they can't afford...eating out every night...and on and on.
Pick a year in the past when you think it was different and then look up the tax rates and inflation rates during that period.
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Orange Elite [5413]
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Ring of Honor [23710]
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What you say about the tired parents and working class being treated badly....
Feb 11, 2025, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to What happened to local funding of education? ] |
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...is true. But there are a lot of other stressers like a healthcare industry on amuck, two weeks of vacation a year, housing prices.
I think that if more people would worry less about cultural wars and focus on smart reforms for the working class, this country could be great again.
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Tiger Titan [48527]
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Then tell us how to fix it since you're such a genius on it.
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Feb 11, 2025, 1:33 PM
[ in reply to What happened to local funding of education? ] |
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So far I've seen you in this thread demand it be cut even though you don't know how it works. You think you're scoring some points with Maher (what are your thoughts about him saying repeatedly that Trump will become a dictator who won't give the power back?).
Then your next suggestion is to raise taxes on the state level. LOL okay. And this is to offset the red states that voted Trump, who are going to get ###### the most out of the DOE cut.
But then you say the parents aren't parenting anymore so it doesn't matter anyway... so raise their taxes and make schools more of a daycare for them.
Sounds like you've really figured this out.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52194]
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I'll give you some insight from someone who actually knows this topic
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Feb 11, 2025, 10:52 AM
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the USDOE does very little in what your kids are or are not taught.
That comes from your local school board and here recently, the state DOE.
What USDOE does provide is protections for student and parent rights.
Are they horribly mismanaged? Absolutely. You know who is even more mismanaged than them? SC DOE.
They also provide major funding for states. Guess who gets the most of that funding?
Red states.
So it's really a self own.
I've heard the statement, "well get rid of SCDOE and give that money back to the states"
Ok, how? Because if it is divided up 50 ways then red states are going to see significant budget cuts and blue states will be receiving more than what they usually get.
If you split it up equitably by need, you need guidelines on how to determine who gets what..... so you need a USDOE because that is a major part of what they do.
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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All-TigerNet [5706]
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Lower federal taxes and raise state taxes
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Feb 11, 2025, 11:15 AM
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And are you oblivious to all the strings attached to federal education funding?
Your post makes me wonder what the heck you know about any of this.
Would you like me to point you to all the strings that are attached to funding that states and local school districts accepting federal monies are made beholden to???
Really??? You should be embarrassed to even proffer expertise on this matter
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Clemson Sports Icon [52194]
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By strings you mean regulations I'm assuming and yes I absolutely
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Feb 11, 2025, 12:23 PM
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know the "strings" related to state and federal funding.
What's your point?
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Legend [6782]
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Maybe the DOE could go away
Feb 11, 2025, 1:43 PM
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and if they are pushing failed liberal policies all that should stop.
Some alluded to it above, but I'll cut to the chase - the school systems are messed up because
1) most boards are run by lefties which has manifested itself into the school and social culture that gets us to where we are
- lack of discipline
- kids could care less if they get maximum discipline
- kid are told their problems are because of someone else
- kids are prevented from failing and move on no matter how little they know because failing hurts their self-esteem
- social engineering by school boards
- thrusts like "math is racist" take hold
2) the lefties cannot even discuss the problem because they can't recognize the source of the problem and attempting to recognize and discuss the problem results in a bunch of yelling and whining like they are five years old.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52194]
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If and that's a huge if this is happening it is nowhere near the majority
Feb 11, 2025, 2:30 PM
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and I would say is anecdotal at best
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