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110%er [7697]
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Climate change / Antarctic melt: CO2 doesn’t tell the story
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Apr 5, 2023, 9:16 PM
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This is of relevance to those who keep up with Antarctica as a ‘canary in the coal mine’ indicator of CO2 caused global warming as being responsible for the recent trend of increased ice bergs (glacial breakaways) and ice floes.
Bengaline’s post about Antarctic ice activity reminded me of this Antarctic seismic activity in 2020 and 2021.
(SIAP if posted by someone else last year.)
Xxxxxxxxxx
Huge Earthquake Swarm Detected in Antarctica as Inactive Volcano Awakens (Newsweek - April 29, 2022). (There are other sources.)
Logical answer to the recent warming of Antarctica and break-away glaciers and ice floes.
Huge subterranean volcano in Antarctica erupts, causes ~ 85,000 subsurface earthquakes.
(FYI to the CO2 global warming crowd, earthquakes and volcanos release lots of heat.)
https://www.newsweek.com/huge-earthquake-swarm-detected-antarctica-inactive-volcano-awakens-orca-seamount-bransfield-strait-1702115
(*). When is the last time (or first time) that the ‘CO2 is THE cause of global warming is settled science’ crowd has ever mentioned changes in seismic activity as a reasonably possible factor in the global warming of today?
bengaline, clemchem®, RPMcMurphy®, Obed®, Tardawg, CaptCrash, NC_Tiger_, T3Tiger®, Neal in NC®, SOLOS®, xtiger, CharlestonTom®, tabbyplague®, Fordtunate Son, lightbulbbill®, Smiling Tiger®, quozzel, Tigerbalm1®, KeoweeIndians®, fchrisgrimm, oh_its_JimmyHEYHEY®, 19B®
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All-In [25553]
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...or solar flares.***
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Apr 5, 2023, 9:19 PM
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110%er [7697]
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Re: ...or solar flares.***. Scroll to very end of the string
Apr 7, 2023, 2:30 PM
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FYI, scroll down to the very bottom of this thread (the last two posts from April 6) for detailed logic about the impact of the earth itself (not just earth’s atmosphere) on the climate change discussion.
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Legend [18084]
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Link from the article you posted answers your question...
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Apr 5, 2023, 9:31 PM
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"While it may seem like Antarctica is totally devoid of volcanic activity, there is substantial evidence of volcanoes below the Antarctic Ice Sheet, according to NASA's Climate Change and Global Warming website. Some of these are currently active or have been in the recent geologic past."
https://climate.nasa.gov/ask-nasa-climate/2982/fire-and-ice-why-volcanic-activity-is-not-melting-the-polar-ice-sheets/
"In recent years, some have speculated that volcanic activity could be playing a role in the present-day loss of ice mass from Earth’s polar ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica. But does the science support that idea?...
...In short, the answer is a definitive “no,”"
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Link from the article you posted answers your question...
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Apr 5, 2023, 9:33 PM
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Legend [18084]
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That's true, science rarely deals with absolutes...
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Apr 5, 2023, 10:37 PM
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which is why things are endlessly studied and tested, like climate change for instance.
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CU Medallion [73570]
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Tell that to the COVID nuts who kept saying
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Apr 6, 2023, 6:43 AM
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Science was settled
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Oculus Spirit [98786]
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Science never settles.
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Apr 6, 2023, 10:56 AM
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But the fundamental covid science is relatively settled.
The Earth is warming. That is settled science. Why it's warming? That's the unsettled science.
Oh, and science will settle when the climate stops changing.
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Legend [18084]
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Why it's warming has a pretty clear consensus
Apr 6, 2023, 4:42 PM
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but it's not "settled" because nothing in science really ever is settled, as you said.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Why it's warming has a pretty clear consensus
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Apr 6, 2023, 4:54 PM
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Legend [18084]
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Not sure who "they" are, but sure? Consensus remains.***
Apr 6, 2023, 6:06 PM
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All-TigerNet [12121]
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Consensus
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Apr 13, 2023, 8:59 AM
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is just another word for groupthink.
They stick their fingers in the air to catch the breeze from the gubmint money flowing from Washington.
Anybody who thinks this 'science' is serious is gullible at best.
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CU Medallion [73570]
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110%er [7697]
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Re: Link from the article you posted answers your question...
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Apr 5, 2023, 10:00 PM
[ in reply to Link from the article you posted answers your question... ] |
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Not so fast …
Prior to 2020, scientists had theorized that Antarctica was not a place for geological hotspots. (The fact that the link you posted is circa 2019 is not the main point.)
Rather, the point is that modern science, with all of its terrific measurement technology, whiffs big time on occasion.
Even now, geologists struggle to identify, measure, and quantify earthquakes of < M4 on a global basis. These smaller earthquakes, harder to detect, are especially powerful ‘climate warmers’ when under the sea. An increase in the number of sub-oceanic-surface fissures creates an enduring means for efficiently transferring deep-earth heat into the environment.
That climate scientists so readily dismiss variations in seismic activity (probably in part thanks to the technical difficulties explained above) reveals hubris or unwillingness to alter the highly lucrative ‘man made CO2 is THE cause of global warming’ industry.
Starting ~ 20 years ago, climate scientists started acknowledging that variations in solar warmth was a meaningful factor, but their Gleissberg cycle model (~ 100 year cycle) failed to account for the statistically impossible ~ 150 year Gleissberg cycle of ~ 925 AD to ~ 1075 AD.
That the self-anointed arbiters of ‘CO2 is global warming is settled science’ crowd essentially ignores 1/3 of the 3 main factors in the earth’s climate exposes them for the frauds that they are.
Xxxxxxxx
I very much appreciate your thoughts and excellent article + link, deweather.
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Legend [18084]
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Gonna need you to cite some proof here...
Apr 5, 2023, 10:43 PM
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"These smaller earthquakes, harder to detect, are especially powerful ‘climate warmers’ when under the sea."
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110%er [7697]
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No money in seismic proof, therefore it hasn’t been measured
Apr 6, 2023, 5:25 PM
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Not much proof, since scientists hardly attempt to study the thermal effects of earthquakes. The beneath-the-ocean floor earthquakes (& also volcanos, for that matter) transfer heat to the environment far more effectively than above-surface earthquakes.
The earthquake factor, poorly counted for Magnitude 4 or weaker -&- without meaningful heat-release measurement, is ignored in the pro-active communications sense by climate scientists for two huge reasons:
(1). Thermal output measurements -and- an accurate count of the vast majority of earthquakes (I.e., those of M4 and smaller) are expensive to gather. (Few university scientists are capable of doing this, ergo not much ‘grants opportunity’ for them.)
(2). To paraphrase Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, there is ‘economic opportunity’ for pushing the ‘CO2 is settled science as THE cause of global warming’ … in other words, there is no money in it for politically connected special interests if changes in seismic activity is quantitatively proven as the major 3rd factor in global climate.
(*). No one is even going to try to measure seismic activity to establish a baseline; in the absence of a baseline there can be no measurement of change.
The seismic change impact is based on qualitative reasoning.
(***). Soon, I’ll share a big time ‘qualitative’ correlation between two measurable activities which show why there are big changes going on beneath the earth’s crust.
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Legend [18084]
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No proof. Thank you for your honesty.
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Apr 6, 2023, 6:09 PM
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Can you imagine how much notoriety, fame, and money there is for those that found that evidence? Sure seems pretty enticing in a field (seismology and climate studies) that's pretty well-traveled.
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110%er [7697]
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Nor will there be proof; no one will try (too hard)
Apr 6, 2023, 9:43 PM
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It’s easy and cheap to conduct experiments that prove the correlation between temperature change vs the CO2 levels in a controlled atmosphere.
Here is one experiment that works.
Build two well-sealed greenhouses of identical dimension, close together, and in an open area. No plants or animals in either greenhouse, the ‘ground’ is pure silica sand (no carbonate minerals). For each greenhouse, Analyze the concentration of each gas component as the first baseline. Record the initial temperature of each greenhouse at the same time as the second baseline.
Keep greenhouse 1 in a constant atmosphere (no addition of CO2). Add small increments of CO2 to greenhouse 2. Record the temperature of each greenhouse at multiple times … at the same time for each greenhouse … throughout the day and night.
Record the temperature vs CO2 level in both greenhouse #2 and greenhouse #2.
Poof! You have proven that CO2 is a greenhouse gas!
That is a very cheap experiment that has gotten published for climate scientists. Published scientists get additional grant money and are more likely to be advanced to a higher level in the college’s academic hierarchy.
Xxxxxxxx
Gathering seismic evidence such as:
Heat released from each of a given region’s earthquakes; determining the length, width, & depth of each earthquakes fissures; identifying the region’s overall temperature vs depth-into-the-earth gradient (which differs from region to region throughout the world … including under-the-ocean regions); etc etc etc is an impossibly labor intensive and ‘rapid measurement technology challenged’ task.
Huge and fabulously funded organizations such as Smithsonian haven’t gotten close. The garden variety university professor doesn’t have a chance.
Therefore, the university professors (smart people) conduct experiments which are within their budget and capability, I.e., CO2 / warmer atmosphere experiments instead of earth seismic activity vs heat output experiments.
Not hard to undestand.
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All-TigerNet [11697]
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Compare the recent ice melt with the shrinking of the hole
Apr 5, 2023, 9:52 PM
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(lutz) in the ozone.
That massive hole in the ozone let heat escape. Maybe we should use more CFCs.
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110%er [7697]
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Re: Compare the recent ice melt with the shrinking of the hole
Apr 5, 2023, 10:02 PM
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Ha ha … bon mot!
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Hall of Famer [20692]
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Legend [18084]
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Yep, and it refutes two big anti-climate change points...
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Apr 6, 2023, 4:39 PM
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1.) That humans can't affect the climate/environment.
2.) Humans can't also fix the climate problem.
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110%er [7697]
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Re: Yep, and it refutes two big anti-climate change points...
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Apr 6, 2023, 6:31 PM
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We’ve been over the differences between the man-made degradation of the ozone hole via selected grades CFCs and BCFCs (about which man’s role in this I am of complete agreement) versus allegations of man-made CO2 being the major cause of global warming (which I reject as not even close to being proven).
Ozone hole … man’s role is plausible because of the catalytic like effect of CFCs & BCFCs … allowing small amounts of the man made stuff to degrade huge quantities of ozone.
Man-made CO2 … factors like variations in solar radiation, variations in seismic activity (which I’ll go over soon), and the difficulties in estimating the warming component from man’s small incremental addition to overall atmospheric CO2 levels make the ‘settled science’ assertions as garbage.
In summary, comparing ozone hole to CO2 is akin to comparing an elephant to a Rottweiler.
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Legend [18084]
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1.) The comparison is apt for the arguments I brought up
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Apr 6, 2023, 6:38 PM
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2.) It's not garbage simply because you refuse to accept it.
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110%er [7697]
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Re: 1.) The comparison is apt for the arguments I brought up
Apr 14, 2023, 12:01 AM
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FYI, scroll to the final 2 posts at the bottom of the page.
(1). The increasing rate of change in the movement of magnetic north is a sure sign of unusually large changes in the flow patterns of magma.
(2). There is documentation about the step-change increase in active volcanos over the past ~20 years when compared to volcanic activity from the period of ~ 1980 to ~ 2000.
Earthquakes are commonly associated with volcanic activity. As referenced in the opening post / link, the Antarctic Ocean floor volcanic activity was correlated to ~ 85,000 earthquakes.
Just because mankind doesn’t want to try and measure on a global basis the shock intensity from big earthquakes, and because we won’t try … or do not possess the technology to easily categorize and count the smaller earthquakes … does not mean that serious and sincere climate scientists get to dismiss this.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Legend [18084]
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Nope, opening day for Braves @home.
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Apr 6, 2023, 6:58 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Good man
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Apr 6, 2023, 6:58 PM
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110%er [7697]
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Locked and loaded
Apr 6, 2023, 9:46 PM
[ in reply to You better be prepared for the long haul ] |
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Locked and loaded, as you may have already seen below and in a few of my just-posted responses to some other of deweather’s (IMO, legitimately thoughtful) assertions.
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All-In [25553]
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But what about Admiral Byrd's 'underground world'...? ;~)***
Apr 5, 2023, 10:24 PM
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Climate change / Antarctic melt: CO2 doesn’t tell the story
Apr 5, 2023, 10:35 PM
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This is of relevance to those who keep up with Antarctica as a ‘canary in the coal mine’ indicator of CO2 caused global warming as being responsible for the recent trend of increased ice bergs (glacial breakaways) and ice floes. Bengaline’s post about Antarctic ice activity reminded me of this Antarctic seismic activity in 2020 and 2021. (SIAP if posted by someone else last year.) Xxxxxxxxxx Huge Earthquake Swarm Detected in Antarctica as Inactive Volcano Awakens (Newsweek - April 29, 2022). (There are other sources.) Logical answer to the recent warming of Antarctica and break-away glaciers and ice floes. Huge subterranean volcano in Antarctica erupts, causes ~ 85,000 subsurface earthquakes. (FYI to the CO2 global warming crowd, earthquakes and volcanos release lots of heat.) https://www.newsweek.com/huge-earthquake-swarm-detected-antarctica-inactive-volcano-awakens-orca-seamount-bransfield-strait-1702115(*). When is the last time (or first time) that the ‘CO2 is THE cause of global warming is settled science’ crowd has ever mentioned changes in seismic activity as a reasonably possible factor in the global warming of today? bengaline, clemchem®, RPMcMurphy®, Obed®, Tardawg, CaptCrash, NC_Tiger_, T3Tiger®, Neal in NC®, SOLOS®, xtiger, CharlestonTom®, tabbyplague®, Fordtunate Son, lightbulbbill®, Smiling Tiger®, quozzel, Tigerbalm1®, KeoweeIndians®, fchrisgrimm, oh_its_JimmyHEYHEY®, 19B®
It’s Godzirra!
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Heisman Winner [113384]
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Re: Climate change / Antarctic melt: CO2 doesn’t tell the story
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Apr 6, 2023, 12:32 AM
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hey,. maybe bengaline and yourself can travel down to Antarctica and figure out this mystery, both of you seem to be experts here and have an apparent fascination with science.
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110%er [7697]
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Re: Climate change / Antarctic melt: CO2 doesn’t tell the story
Apr 6, 2023, 9:53 PM
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Earnest Shackleford supposedly considered seal liver to be among the best eats down there when stuck on that Wendell Sea ice floe back in 2015.
As an over 50 year old, liver gives me gout.
Give me a shout if In-N-Out Burger gets to Antarctica.
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110%er [5745]
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Re: Climate change / Antarctic melt: CO2 doesn’t tell the story
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Apr 6, 2023, 3:58 PM
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One of the lessons a typical PhD committee wants a doctoral candidate to learn before they graduate is that they don't know everything and they don't know what they don't know. Of course this applies to those of us with a *real* PhD (like engineering) where we are required to make new contributions to the technical literature in a particular area.
So, this is an area where I don't even know what I don't know. What I do know is that 99% of the liberals that think they know something are wrong. They believe what they are told to believe and do not have a perspective to understand when they are over head.
I am recalling the hoaxsters that got the totally fake dog rape paper published in a peer reviewed journal. It was such a great take on a narrative du jour, the lefties fell over themselves to publish it even though it was nonsense. Today, very few leftists can be trusted to be objective.
https://www.wweek.com/news/schools/2018/10/09/a-portland-state-university-professor-made-up-a-study-of-dog-on-dog-sexual-assault-and-got-the-hoax-published/
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110%er [7697]
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Next #1: Volcanic activity changes since 1980
Apr 6, 2023, 7:04 PM
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This date of active volcanos was taken from Smithsonian. In this case, Smithsonian asserts that the volcanic size measurement methodology and the quantification of active volcanos on a global basis have been in place since 1980.
This represents a good data set, with 43 annual data points from 1980 through 2022, inclusive.
(*). Even Smithsonian, similar to NOAA, offers one ‘conclusion’ that their very own data refutes. Smithsonian had concluded that ‘volcanic activity has not changed’. This is true with respect to NEW volcanos, but not with ACTIVE volcanos.
(*). Also note, there are not accurately measured correlations between volcanic activity to earthquake activity, but given the primitive way that earthquake activity is measured when compared to volcanic activity, it is reasonable that correlative data has not been established.
OK, here goes:
1980 through 1989 … 59.6 active volcanos on average for each year
1990 through 1999 … 58.9 active volcanos on avg for each year
2000 through 2009 … 70.7 active volcanos on avg for each year
2010 through 2022 … 73.6 active volcanos on avg for each year
This decades long jump in volcanic activity establishes that seismic activity is far from constant, and also happens to correlate with the measurable increase in the globe’s average temperature.
(*). Attempts to measure the heat output from these active volcanos may have been done; common sense makes it that sub-ocean surface volcanos transfer heat far more effectively than above the surface of the earth volcanos. The really big unknown, again, is the large number of collateral earthquakes that also release large amounts of heat for an unmeasured (and variable length) of time. Antarctica’s Orca volcano stunned me with the enormous number of collateral earthquakes. No overall data is available, but if one big (but not Pinatubo sized) volcano correlated to 85,000 earthquakes in that general vicinity, it stands to reason that other big numbers of earthquakes are formed along with deep ocean volcanos that are active in places where seismic measuring equipment is not nearby.
https://volcano.si.edu/faq/index.cfm?question=eruptionsbyyear
(*). Big things are happening beneath the earth’s core. Next, I’ll share the change in movements of magma (iron rich material with … spoiler alert … magnetic attributes).
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110%er [7697]
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Next #2: Changes in magma flow patterns: Magnetic North
Apr 6, 2023, 7:49 PM
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Here is the other main indicator that there are big changes in the earth’s core that were not measured accurately until long after the end of the ‘global warming’ period from ~ 925 AD to ~ 1075 AD. This global warming period could be explained neither via the solar Gleissberg cycle nor by elevated levels of atmospheric CO2. (This data is reported by the NOAA. deweather had also documented this finding in a several-months-ago TNet post.).
With 2 of the globe’s major climate factors being eliminated from the equation, the logical (but not measured via ‘archeological’ (if you’ll forgive me for this non-technical shorthand) techniques is increased seismic activity.
Magnetic North and its recent very rapid movement (all in one direction) … with the rate of increase in this movement also happening … being the indicator.
Magnetic North moved a whopping 50 miles in 2020. Going back a few decades, Magnet North would move ~ hundreds of feet per year.
(*). Magnetic North’s position reflects the flow pattern of magma beneath the earth’s crust. The earth’s crust ‘slips over’ the magma layer as the earth rotates; this ‘slipping’ creates friction on the iron rich magma layer.
This movement creates an electric field, the electric field moves in parallel to the direction of the earth’s rotation.
(*). So what does the electric field have to do with Magnetic North? Electric fields create magnetic fields; magnetic fields move in a perpendicular direction to electric fields.
(*). Magnetic North represents the ‘center’ of the earth’s magnetic field. Magnetic North doesn’t move unless magma flow patterns change. Fast changes in magma flow patterns = fast changes in Magnetic North.
(**). When the flow pattern of the magma layer moves, the electric field (and simultaneously, the magnetic field) moves. Magma flow patterns are enormous factors in changes in seismic events.
(**). Turbulence (if you’ll again forgive me for using shorthand) in the magma layer puts pressure on the earth’s thin crispest layer that hasn’t ‘gotten equilibrated’ to these different sub-crust flow patterns.
(***). In summary, the large recent changes in Mother Earth itself, conveniently ignored by ‘climate change’ profiteers in politically connected private companies, scare-tactic-popularized politicians, and grant-hungry academicians, are ignored in ‘climate change is settled science’ discussions to the detriment of mankind.
(!!!). This should not be a political matter. Politics has corrupted the global warming argument as a manipulative tactic which has been frighteningly effective … even on smart, well-educated Americans. Stop taking the bait.
Magnetic north moved 50 miles last year (let's map it!) - Graphically Speaking
https://blogs.sas.com/content/graphicallyspeaking/2020/01/31/magnetic-north-moved-50-miles-last-year-lets-map-it/
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