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All-In [42507]
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Heisman Winner [112301]
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Re: Hey, I'm gonna use the F word.
Oct 17, 2018, 6:00 PM
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the conditions are in place, an increasingly marginalized working class, economic insecurity left over from the last recession, systemic income inequality, and a divided country.
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Oculus Spirit [94305]
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Trump represents the working class.
Oct 17, 2018, 7:16 PM
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You might need to hone your rhetoric.
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All-In [34155]
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"represents"***
Oct 19, 2018, 12:15 AM
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Hey, I'm gonna use the F word.
Oct 17, 2018, 6:03 PM
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Facism has historically been a left wing ideology. Antifa pushes this hard, yet they're the ones exhibiting actual facist behavior.
This is the professor that Hussein imprisoned for speaking the truth which, is a governmental fascist move in and of itself.
https://youtu.be/8U0Buiz0igo
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All-In [42507]
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Why do I reply to a known Russian troll?
Oct 17, 2018, 6:28 PM
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I dunno. Maybe you're actually a real person.
No. Fascism has and always will be a far-right movement. Extreme leftism is communism. You can't have both ideologies because they completely oppose each other. Simply reading what fascism stands for will show you it is far right. Communism and extreme socialism embrace leftist ideology.
And if you reply with "But the Nazis had 'socialist' in their name" as a rebuttal, I'm reporting abuse and asking Crump to simply put you out of your Tigernet misery.
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All-In [28802]
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This is pretty simplistic
Oct 18, 2018, 4:50 PM
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You're both wrong. Fascism greatly differs from communism, but that's a longer story than I want to go into here. Both movements involve socialism, but socialism is only one stage in Marx's dialectic on the way to full communism. Fascism also embraces socialism, but in the service of the nation rather than in the service of universalist principles that support international workers. Mussolini, who created the term "fascism" and whose ideology was the truest expression of it, was a lifelong leftist who was expelled from the Italian Fascist Party for having heterodox views on WW1. His fascism wasn't racist, but it was right wing because it was proudly nationalist rather than being about class struggle; fascism replaces class in its version of struggle with the nation.
But in an American context where the founding principles are classically liberal, it doesn't make much sense to say that fascism, from which socialism is inextricable, is simply a "far-right movement." It combines elements of leftism and rightism, but it's entirely incompatible with movement conservatism, or any political movement that advocates for limited government and capitalism.
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All-In [42507]
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Re: This is pretty simplistic
Oct 19, 2018, 2:01 PM
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While people on both sides of the aisle can exhibit fascist tendencies, the actual ideologies that saw its rise pre-WWII and beyond has been embraced and defined by extreme right wing beliefs. And where Memphis and others on here get it wrong today is that they think the extreme leftist ideologies in more modern times embrace the core tenants of fascism, which they do not.
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Oculus Spirit [98016]
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Out at Yale philosophy professor
Oct 17, 2018, 6:06 PM
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Almost out at NYT.
If you want to go by the numbers, communists have killed far more people than fascists. Also, communists are closer aligned with one of the two parties today than fascism is with either.
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110%er [6101]
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Re: Out at Yale philosophy professor
Oct 17, 2018, 6:17 PM
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It's a media driven narrative that the less informed love to cling to.
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All-In [42507]
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That's an interesting approach.
Oct 17, 2018, 6:30 PM
[ in reply to Out at Yale philosophy professor ] |
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"Hey, yeah, fascism sucks, but communism has been worse, so, you know, yay fascism!"
Oh? You weren't touting fascism? Just like I wasn't touting communism?
The Dems aren't even close to communism. They're too steeped in donor money and good ole fashioned capitalist corruption.
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Oculus Spirit [98016]
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Irony is not lost on the fact that if we turned our laws
Oct 17, 2018, 6:33 PM
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back to WW2 when we were actually fighting fascists, libs would be screaming whoever proposed that was a fascist.
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All-In [42507]
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Examples, please.***
Oct 17, 2018, 6:34 PM
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110%er [6101]
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110%er [6101]
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All-In [28802]
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Probably because it's conspiracy theorist nonsense***
Oct 18, 2018, 5:23 PM
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All-In [28802]
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That is silly anti-intellectualism
Oct 18, 2018, 4:35 PM
[ in reply to Out at Yale philosophy professor ] |
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At least find out that Jason Stanley is actually a left-wing loon, first. He thinks, for instance, that "free speech" shouldn't really apply to conservative arguments if they upset certain people. He also only seems to apply his analysis of fascism to ideas he doesn't like. See his piece from a while back in The Stone, where he accuses Steve Bannon of being JUST LIKE HITLER because he thinks Steve Bannon is SUBVERTING MEANING by using language in ways he doesn't like.
Stanley, like many intellectuals, may have valuable things to say about the concept of fascism, but he seems to be blinded by his own left-wing dogmaticism when it comes to contemporary politics. But the non-expertise of intellectuals when it comes to contemporary politics isn't a reason to simply dismiss anything written by a Yale philosopher. That would be a big mistake when that class of people includes Seyla Benhabib, Steven Smith, Bruce Ackerman, and Ian Shapiro.
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Oculus Spirit [94305]
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I'm gonna use the 'A,' word and identify the fascism in...
Oct 17, 2018, 7:15 PM
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America.
Antifa and the left is using fascist tactics to run people out of restaurants screaming 'I believe survivors,' follow leaders down the halls of congress screaming ugly things in their faces, rioting when conservatives show up at college campuses to speak causing local cops to shut down freedom of speech in lieu of public safety, staging violent gathering to slow traffic and vandalizing private property by striking cars with clubs, beating people in the streets and clawing at the doors of the highest court in our land to intimidate political opposition.
If you knew anything about fascism you'd abandon the fascism of the left and become a republican.
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All-In [42507]
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Re: I'm gonna use the 'A,' word and identify the fascism in...
Oct 17, 2018, 8:16 PM
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When you say "fascist tactics" by referencing suppression of ideas or threatening/attacking/intimidating people of opposing viewpoints, sure, those are conditions that exist in fascism. But they exist in the other forms of extremism as well. They more of a symptom of extremism and not a defining characteristic.
To truly define an ideology, you have to look at characteristics and beliefs of that movement, and that's where your comparison ends. Those leftist extremists aren't embracing fascist ideology.
Y'all have to get this: fascism is an extreme right movement. It has always been that. It has always been defined as that. There is no such thing as leftist fascism just as there is no such thing as right-wing communism.
If you want to cling to "leftists are communists," have at it. Because at least you're pointing in the correct direction.
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CU Medallion [55976]
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Ima use the F word too - fuhgeddaboudit.***
Oct 17, 2018, 7:25 PM
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Legend [15758]
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So what has the 72 year old fascist done half way through
Oct 18, 2018, 7:16 AM
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his first term as POTUS to create his fascist society?
And I get your “right wing/left wing” thing. Fascism is indeed on the far right of spectrum. But really you’re just demanding we adhere to a defined structure of political discussion. A sort of “Political Classification Fascist”, if you will. There’s so much demanding from the left that right wingers think a certain way, that their speech must be suppressed, sometimes through violence, that it’s hard not to put the “fascist” label on them. “Cultural Fascists?” “Grass Roots Fascists?” I don’t know. Maybe fascism comes in many forms. Or maybe there is a different word for complete intolerance of alternate views enforced through violence by the left.
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Oculus Spirit [98016]
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When you go far right or left the lines blur.
Oct 18, 2018, 8:02 AM
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The end results of going all the way right and left are almost identical. Only difference is how you get there. Heck. Reagan would be a fascist today if his clone appeared and won the White House. In reality you can argue Trump is a fascist as easily as Hillary is a communist.
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All-In [31977]
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Let's pretend I'm not going to watch that video....
Oct 18, 2018, 8:13 AM
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in what ways is Trump a fascist?
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Orange Blooded [2711]
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IDK, but isn't it weird that Trump still does rallies?
Oct 18, 2018, 11:07 AM
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Usually when someone wins the election, that's it, the campaign is over and it is time to focus on the details of governing. So what is the purpose of holding all these Trump rallies? How does this help the country? Why does he still need to fire up his base with partisan, divisive rhetoric two years into his presidency? Why does he need to use our taxpayer dollars to fly off to Iowa to put on a one hour show?
As everyone knows by now, this guy is a classic narcissist. He feeds off the crazy, wild-eyed energy of WWE automatons, mindlessly chanting "lock her up" at his rallies.
What other president in American history has ever done something even remotely similar?
Trump is too much of an idiot to evolve into an American Mussolini, but he is a total narcissist, so he has half the equation down pretty good.
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All-In [31977]
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Because there is an election next month....
Oct 18, 2018, 11:16 AM
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I assume and also him holding on to his 33% base is his only chance for survival.
As for other presidents...not at all uncommon for them to hold campaign rallies when they weren't up for election at the time. Do a search for Obama rallies in 2014 and 2016.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Because there is an election next month....
Oct 18, 2018, 1:08 PM
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Trump and Fascism is a lot like a black guy walking into a pawn shop wearing a hoody with his hand under the hoody....it looks bad.
But it turns out the black guy is selling those chocolate bars to raise money for his school and it was raining outside and he was keeping the bars dry.
Both kinda look bad at first glance, but neither are actually doing what one would have thought they might be doing.
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All-In [31977]
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hmm.....ok***
Oct 18, 2018, 1:10 PM
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All-In [40657]
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All-In [31977]
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Not sure...think he was saying Trump is ....
Oct 18, 2018, 1:13 PM
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selling candy bars in the rain or something
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Not sure...think he was saying Trump is ....
Oct 18, 2018, 1:19 PM
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Sorry, I'll explain it to the slower crowd.
Although some can argue that Trump appears to embrace fascism by his speech and decisions I contend that he isn't a fascist.
Trump has no ideology other than money and his own ego.
Therefore, much of what some see in Trump as having fascist tendencies is realy innocent behavior from a ###### that doesn't know any better.
Appearances can be deceiving is sort of the point boys.
Next time I'll use flash cards.
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All-In [31977]
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yeah, I understood it...it was a joke***
Oct 18, 2018, 1:20 PM
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All-In [42507]
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Part of me thinks that's more dangerous.
Oct 18, 2018, 8:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not sure...think he was saying Trump is .... ] |
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He's dumb enough and egotistical enough to exhibit those tendencies without realizing the danger behind them, and he's surrounded by enough terrible people who can understand that and take advantage of it.
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All-In [31977]
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Come on...he's not "surrounded by terrible people"***
Oct 19, 2018, 1:04 PM
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All-In [49213]
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But he's never stopped holding rallies
Oct 18, 2018, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to Because there is an election next month.... ] |
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then again, we should probably just add rallies to the list of things like golf and breaches of etiquette with foreign leaders and White House travel budgets.
You know, stuff that conservatives (including, ironically, ####### Trump) were always raging about when Obama did them, but suddenly have no problems with any more.
Signed,
Barack "Campaigner in Chief" Obama
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All-In [31977]
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Don't get me wrong....i agree with you....
Oct 18, 2018, 1:48 PM
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But i think the specific question was why was he hold rallies now.
I cringe at the thought of his rallies and what is going to come out of his mouth during them.
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All-In [42507]
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Re: Because there is an election next month....
Oct 18, 2018, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to Because there is an election next month.... ] |
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Dude, Trump was doing this last year. Completely unnecessary and just meant to feed his ego and push his rhetoric.
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All-In [48023]
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All-In [28802]
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Oculus Spirit [81533]
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I'm still waiting for the coup he's going to throw
Oct 18, 2018, 10:25 AM
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Or the Russians to send the signal to turn him on like Jason Bourne.
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All-In [49213]
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We're still waiting for Barack to outlaw guns...
Oct 18, 2018, 1:24 PM
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and implement Sharia law too.
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Legend [15758]
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Objection, your Honor! Relevance?***
Oct 18, 2018, 1:37 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94305]
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Pisz him off and you'll see his honor.***
Oct 18, 2018, 1:44 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81533]
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All-In [28802]
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Conservatives have been accusing liberals of similar
Oct 18, 2018, 4:21 PM
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Heck, Jonah Goldberg even wrote a popular book about liberal fascism. The problem with all of this is that nobody ever seems to explain that the upshot isn't (necessarily) killing all the Jews, just like the upshot of the left flirting with cultural Marxism vis a vis identity politics/social justice doesn't mean the massacre of the bourgeoisie and all other enemies of the proletariat (in whatever form it takes). So, instead of calling somebody "fascist," "socialist," or "Marxist," as if those words don't mostly just mean "this person believes something I don't like" or "this person said something that sort of sounds kinda like something a totalitarian once said," maybe we should just say why we think somebody else's politics are so bad.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Conservatives have been accusing liberals of similar
Oct 18, 2018, 5:53 PM
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Wait, enough about identity politics.
Isn't crooked hillary, lying ted, little marco, horseface stormy identity politics as well?
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Legend [15758]
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How so?***
Oct 18, 2018, 6:05 PM
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All-In [28802]
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Replies: 46
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