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Hall of Famer [20542]
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the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 2:10 PM
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Who leads Clemson University? Who takes responsibility?
Who cares how Clemson football performs?
President Barker doesn't. His silence speaks volumes. His contribution to football is the AARC, Becky Bowman, and pilfering the athletic fund for academic pursuits. Clemson athletics are a cash cow to him, nothing more. He set a number of ten-year goals upon taking office (check out ClemsonDeservesBetter.com to re-cap what they were)...none of those stated goals have been accomplished, but he has made not one public statement to address this disparity. Zero. Not one. His lack of concern for athletics is beyond transparent.
Terry Don Phillips assuredly doesn't. He fired a coach in Tommy Bowden who started 3-3 - after TDP just re-signed him just six games previously to a four million dollar buyout - and now that Clemson is 6-6, with TDP's hand-picked "gut" favorite now having done what no Clemson coach in the last 40 years has done, and lost back-to-back games to South Carolina, Terry Don Phillips says...nothing. Nothing whatsoever.
Terry Don likes the word "metric". By any metric you can measure, Terry Don recently said in an interview, Clemson athletics are healthy. I'm not sure what metric he's using. Clemson football has not won an ACC title in 20 years. Our most significant accomplishment in that span has been nine wins, and a Peach Bowl victory in 2003 against Tennessee.
To recap: we have no 10-win seasons in 20 years. We have no ACC titles in 20 years. By any "metric" there is absolutely nothing whatsoever special about Clemson football. We are the 8th or 9th-place team in one of the weakest conferences in football.
Except for one thing, that is: the 83,000 orange-clad fans who pour their hearts and passion into each home game. Clemson leads even FSU in attendance and fan support.
Clemson athletics, for its size, is without question the most ineptly-led athletics department in the nation. Period. We have accomplished less with more than any program of our size in the country. If you define a "major" sports program as a BCS-conference school that can seat 80,000+ fans, only Texas A&M and South Carolina approach our level of futility in conference championships and BCS-game appearances...and South Carolina is in the SEC Championship Game this year and has the potential of breaking that dubious record (which would leave Clemson alone among big schools for consecutive seasons without a 10-win season, conference championship, or BCS bowl game appearance.) And Texas A&M appeared in the Sugar Bowl in 1998 under RC Slocum; the Aggies aren't quite as pathetic as Clemson has been the last two decades.
To repeat: if South Carolina beats Auburn next week, Clemson will be the worst-performing major athletics program in the country.
And the reason is simple: we're the worst led. At Florida, at Southern Cal, at Nebraska, at Oklahoma - anywhere but here, a 6-6 season would cause major upheavals at every level of the University.
Here...we hear nothing. 83,000 fans trudge out after a miserable season and a second straight loss to our rival...without so much as a comment, much less an apology, from those in charge.
That's Clemson, today in 2010. And that's just sick.
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110%er [6224]
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I think I heard this right...
Nov 28, 2010, 2:14 PM
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We are one of 9 (could be 6)schools in the BCS system that has not been to a BCS game since its beginning?
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Varsity [237]
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That's definitely not right.***
Nov 28, 2010, 2:19 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Not even close ...
Dec 3, 2010, 4:16 PM
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We are definitely *one* of the schools that has not been to a BCS bowl since the inception of the BCS ... but we are a member of a rather large club, not the exclusive fraternity described above.
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Amateur [41]
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Geat post and I agree. When does the bumbling fool of an AD
Nov 28, 2010, 2:38 PM
[ in reply to I think I heard this right... ] |
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ever say anything. I consistenly hear other AD's from all other universities talking about their programs on the radio and conducting interviews. You should not have to buy a subscription to hear any thoughts from this athletic department. I love the tigers and my degree has opened many doors, but I have gone from season tickets to going to about 5 games a year to now 1 this season.
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Enthusiast [127]
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Re: I think I heard this right...
Nov 28, 2010, 4:17 PM
[ in reply to I think I heard this right... ] |
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That's 9 schools without a 10 win season or BCS appearance.
South Carolina and Uconn are good chances for BCS bowls this year. Yes, one of the worst programs of all time and a program that wasn't even a D-1A football team in 2001 will possibly make it to BCS bowls before Clemson.
We ####### suck, no two ways about it.
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Freshman [-1]
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1st Rounder [619]
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Re: I think I heard this right...
Nov 28, 2010, 11:51 PM
[ in reply to I think I heard this right... ] |
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There are more than 9 between the ACC and SEC. (Miss, Miss St., Ark, Vandy, UK. SC, UNC, Duke, MD, Clemson, BC, NCSU, UVA)
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Rock Defender [54]
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Md lost UF in Sugar bowl....but I get the point***
Nov 29, 2010, 7:45 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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meant Orange I think***
Nov 29, 2010, 8:18 AM
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Legend [15216]
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Great writing.***
Nov 28, 2010, 2:16 PM
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Great writing.***
Nov 28, 2010, 7:45 PM
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ABSOLUTELY GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!all true
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CU Guru [1837]
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We didn't have 83,000 fans trudging out last night.
Nov 28, 2010, 2:23 PM
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I think we might have had 55,000. I was surrounded by coot fans in an IPTAY parking lot and in the stadium. Any IPTAY member who sells his parking pass and tickets to coots is a disgrace no matter how bad the team is playing.
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Orange Blooded [2073]
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Amen to that, brother!***
Nov 28, 2010, 11:55 PM
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All-In [25014]
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Varsity [219]
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Did you see
Nov 28, 2010, 2:23 PM
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all the big donars, IPTAY people, billy bob phillips, bot members, last night...enjoying themselves...they dont care...80 thousand plus in the stands, going toa bowl, people willdonate to IPTAY...they will be happy...until the above changes nothing else will change!!! I know...
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Rooter [212]
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Very well stated...***
Nov 28, 2010, 2:26 PM
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: Very well stated...***
Nov 28, 2010, 2:33 PM
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thanks.
This article does a good job of pointing out the problem with Clemson Football right now. (and Clemson Athletics generally IMO)
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Associate AD [844]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 2:42 PM
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Very true - and I think the crucial point is below:
"Here...we hear nothing. 83,000 fans trudge out after a miserable season and a second straight loss to our rival...without so much as a comment, much less an apology, from those in charge."
People care about tailgating and are used to losing - we have become USC-Pikens County Campus
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Orange Blooded [2481]
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Yea,and you have those that...
Nov 28, 2010, 4:52 PM
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care more about what time our games begin so they can begin their 9 am drinking binge,than how many games
we're winning.
#21
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Starter [374]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 2:51 PM
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A definite HOF post. Should be printed and mailed to every BOT member, Barker, TDP, state legislator with Clemson connections or interest, etc. Unfortunately, probably would have very little positive effect, but at least the message would be conveyed.
The acceptance of our current state of mediocrity is mind-boggling indeed!
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Standout [334]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 3:53 PM
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great post. And this is the reason not to talk about firing Dabo or any other coach. Until there is change at the top (see Miami) Any new hires will be same as what we have now. If the leadership cares, then we will see change.
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Zealot [917]
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It always is****
Nov 28, 2010, 4:27 PM
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CU Medallion [51555]
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bump***
Nov 28, 2010, 4:27 PM
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: bump***
Nov 28, 2010, 4:31 PM
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you cut the dragon off at the head!
not the tail...
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 4:35 PM
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Nothing will change until those 83,000 you mentioned turns into 20,000. Barker/TDP couldn't care less how the team performs as long as they get their money. When fans stop supporting this regime, it will change. But that's the ONLY way to change it. E-mails and letters don't work.
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CU Guru [1203]
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Seats filled = action. To prove it, check out the
Nov 28, 2010, 4:45 PM
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article here.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5858214
"Hocutt made the decision shortly after Miami lost to South Florida 23-20 in overtime on Saturday afternoon, in a game where only about 27,000 people filled the 73,000 seats at Sun Life Stadium."
A lot of people cite the action by Miami's AD as the line in the sand that we need to draw. IMO, the # of seats they sold to this game says it all.
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110%er [9889]
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Dang quozzel ....I thought you were dead and gone. But
Nov 28, 2010, 4:44 PM
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for a guy that has not posted more than 10 times since 2005....you sure did nail it.
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1st Rounder [639]
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Re: Dang quozzel ....I thought you were dead and gone. But
Nov 28, 2010, 4:46 PM
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he's been waiting for the right moment.
they say patience is a virtue...
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Orange Blooded [2481]
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QUOZZEL
Nov 28, 2010, 4:48 PM
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Great post,
and I totally agree with what you said; The mind set at Clemson HAS to change.Its not just football,its all CU sports in general.But sure,it should start with football.Whether ppl wanna realize it or not,Clemson is reconized as the "Beverally Hillbillies" of college sports.And when we make DUMB decisions (ex-Dabo)-it just gets that much funnier to the nation aboard.Its a joke here,a freaking joke.And you have those people who come online,glutting for more punishment;Oh,give him one more year.Oh,everything is fine.No,everything isn't fine.And like you stated in your post,20 years "IS" long enough.We basicly went through one one bad coach after another since Danny left. Heck,have we even had one,one good offensive coord. in the last 20 years,name one?No,Clemson really needs to clean house.Barker,Terry Don and Dabo.Who cares about a freaking "FIT" or culture.Fit is what we don't need.Uncle Jed needs to move on and so does the Clemson tradition.
#21
Sorry for typos
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Head Coach [787]
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AMEN!
Nov 28, 2010, 10:50 PM
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nm
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Rookie [19]
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Re: QUOZZEL
Nov 29, 2010, 7:23 AM
[ in reply to QUOZZEL ] |
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Thanks, POTY!
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 5:01 PM
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Now I don't think most would stop giving, as they are afraid that they will lose their place in line when things do turn somewhere down the road. But that aside, I would like to see a boycott of the one of the warmups like the Troy game next year. You know a crowd of 10,000 or so would make national news and would no doubt have reporters talking to supporters in search of answers. I doubt most would have the guts to pull it off. But it would be sweet and send a huge message. Now I know some just hate to miss the social aspect of a football Saturday. If theat is the case, show up and tailgate all day while the game goes on. That would send a message that even Barker would have to acknowledge.
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Fan [76]
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many people already show up just to tailgate....
Nov 29, 2010, 9:30 AM
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I don't know anyone that has had a problem finding tickets to any of the games this year. I know at our tailgate there are always at least a dozen tickets that are available for anyone to use - no demand.
Remember when it used to be a struggle just to get top deck seats? Those days are gone...
The AD probably blames it on the economy, but it has been prove on ever level of athletics - winning brings demand.
We are a long long ways from being a top tier program, such as The Ohio State University, Alabama, etc.....
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null [null]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 5:40 PM
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I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have written Barker and copied all the board of trustees. I heard they are getting 200 emails a day. I think this is the only method that will get rid of TDP and Barker. They are so disinterested in the success of Clemson football. Tell everyone you know th contact the board.
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Orange Blooded [4741]
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Great post Quozzel...please post more often.
Nov 28, 2010, 5:49 PM
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Your voice, viewpoint, and writing style are missed around here.
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Associate AD [840]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 7:35 PM
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great post
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Orange Blooded [2312]
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Bump for the blind fans in denial***
Nov 28, 2010, 7:38 PM
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Addict [422]
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Well not to squash an otherwise great post
Nov 28, 2010, 10:50 PM
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but it is factually inaccurate.
I wont bother breaking down the BCS, aTm, USCe fiasco for you but you are off by 7 schools.
But just check Florida's record for me and tell me how much major upheavel is on going there...or Texas...LOL
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Rooter [249]
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Re: Well not to squash an otherwise great post
Nov 28, 2010, 11:01 PM
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My family contains 3 bull gator donors, and as a past member of the FireRonZook forums and current poster of the replacement "ZookFreeZone" forums, I can assure you fans are more unhappy at their 7-5 as a whole than we are of 6-6.
I can't speak for Texas, but many posters wanted Addazio fired even in 2009, when Florida went 13-1....
Meyer has earned bad seasons because of past championships, nobody wants to see Meyer fired. HOWEVER, I can't think of a single person that isn't completely livid over their season. Addazio being fired/demoted is a certainty at Florida, I wish I could say the same thing about Napier.
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Addict [422]
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but thats just it - he didnt say unhappy he said
Nov 28, 2010, 11:11 PM
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"major upheavel at every level of the university"
is the AD on the chopping block?
how about the president?
Maybe they can put a billboard up downtown...oh wait that was just a kid who stole $3000 from idiots....
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Rooter [249]
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Re: but thats just it - he didnt say unhappy he said
Nov 28, 2010, 11:15 PM
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Fair enough, but there was indeed "Major Upheaval" when Florida went 7-5 3 seasons in a row with Ron Zook. Everyone and their moms not only wanted Zook gone, but Jeremy Foley too for making that hire (their AD, of course).
They're a bit bad of an example because of their recent success, but consecutive failed seasons at Texas or Florida is completely unacceptable. Don't think Meyer is immune to it if he goes 7-5 next year. There are already enough posters thinking that Meyer has lost his fire after he resigned. Another 7-5 season could prove fatal.
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Addict [422]
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To be fair, 7-5 next year and Dabo has to go...
Nov 28, 2010, 11:18 PM
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but i think he has earned next year.
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Letterman [266]
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nice post***
Nov 28, 2010, 10:52 PM
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CU Guru [1483]
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POST OF THE YEAR
Nov 28, 2010, 10:58 PM
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Maybe all-time, for Tigernet
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Rock Defender [73]
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This needs to be sent to the BOTs******
Nov 28, 2010, 11:02 PM
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110%er [9771]
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they could give a #### either***
Nov 29, 2010, 2:01 AM
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Devotee [318]
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Quite the wordsmith*******
Nov 28, 2010, 11:10 PM
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All-Pro [663]
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Well Q, I wondered what became of you...
Nov 28, 2010, 11:24 PM
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I thought maybe you did the wise thing and went off to rehab to kick this insidiously self-destructive CU football habit.
I am trying to get my insurance company interested in paying for mine.
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Freshman [-1]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 11:30 PM
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You hit the nail right on the head my man. You should send this to Terry Don Phillips and President Baker directly. Maybe than they understand how Clemson fans really feel. Another dissappointing season and once again our coach has that "Well there is always next year" attitude.
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All-TigerNet [12236]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 11:42 PM
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This postmade itto the HOF pretty quickly
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Rookie [12]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 28, 2010, 11:51 PM
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I like most of this post but, I believe there is one error. It is common for people to accuse the academic side of Clemson of "stealing" money from athletics or IPTAY. My understanding of this matter is that this is a transfer of funds to pay for the additional money required to grant athletic scholarships to out of state athletes.
The matter became evident in NC this year. The state's Universitys used to grant in state rates for out of state athletes. This year they were forced to pay the full out of state rates which is causing the Rams Club at UNC to pay a lot more to the University to fund the out of state scholarships.
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CU Guru [1657]
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welcome back old friend.***
Nov 28, 2010, 11:54 PM
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All-In [44055]
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It has barely been 24 hours since our last game.
Nov 29, 2010, 2:34 AM
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Way to give our president and athletic director time to formulate a statement and/or take action.
Don't assume that nothing is happening, simply because we haven't heard anything about it yet.
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Rooter [212]
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so now we need to show patience to for a press release?
Nov 29, 2010, 2:38 AM
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wow, seriously bub? how much time do they really need to formulate a statement? I mean I know the people running this University are morons, but come on! I think they can manage to put together a simple press release.
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CU Guru [1857]
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Morons? Really?? Quit embarrasing yourself....
Nov 29, 2010, 9:31 AM
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Maybe they are not putting as much emphasis as you (or I) would like into the athletics, but saying they are morons just removes any seriousness to your argument.
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Rooter [212]
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Re: Morons? Really?? Quit embarrasing yourself....
Nov 30, 2010, 1:18 AM
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how about incompetent or indifferent?! does that work for you chief?
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Head Coach [759]
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Fan [76]
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Tiger Cub [11]
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great point, bottom line is...
Nov 29, 2010, 7:38 AM
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I've been saying as a AD/fan base, that you are who you wanna be. Look at Alabama and FSU as two examples. ALA history the last 25 years shows that they put up with mediocrity on average for about 10 years before taking the steps to fix it. Fsu went about 8 years.
Clemson is in year 20. nuff said.
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Hall of Famer [22338]
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Joined: 3/3/99
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It's true... we are the biggest underachiever in the nation
Nov 29, 2010, 8:16 AM
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... since 1992. Listed below are the only BCS conference teams in the nation who have not accomplished one of the following since 1992 :
(a) 10 Win Season
(b) Conference Championship
(c) Play in a BCS Bowl
Duke
Iowa State
Baylor
Oklahoma State
Indiana
Kentucky
South Carolina
Vanderbilt
Clemson
UConn and USF are not included because they have not played D-1 football since 1992. Okla St (now 10-2) will came off the list this year, and USC (9-3) has a shot as well. And you really have to remove Indiana, Duke & Kentucky from the list, because they are "basketball schools".
That leaves Clemson, Vandy, Iowa St & Baylor.
Baylor's stadium holds 50,000 and pretty much always sucks. Iowa St's stadium holds 55,000 and pretty much always sucks. Vandy's stadium seats 39,000 and plays in the SEC. And none of those schools recruit worth a crap. They are all traditional losers and bottom-feeders. And they play in tougher conferences.
Bottom line: Clemson stands out on that list... not being a "basketball school"... having good football tradition & past success... regularly filling up a 80,000 seat stadium... and enjoying solid recruiting classes (i.e. not having to out-work or out-scheme opponents with your 2-star recruits). Playing in a weak conference just adds the cherry on top for Clemson.
Sorry, but there's simply no excuse for Clemson to fail this badly for almost 20 years now.
(and thanks to whoever did the initial research and posted this a few weeks ago)
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CU Guru [1352]
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Welcome back Quozzel...good post***
Nov 29, 2010, 9:13 AM
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All-In [39020]
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Glad *someone* has their finger on the pulse...
Nov 29, 2010, 9:38 AM
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good to see you quozzel.
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Orange Blooded [3121]
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Whoa whoa whoa... 1 good season for USC makes them a
Nov 29, 2010, 9:43 AM
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better program than Clemson over the last 20 years? You're hugely overreacting here buddy.
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null [10]
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Joined: 6/10/07
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110%er [6611]
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Joined: 9/28/09
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BUMP
Nov 29, 2010, 11:55 AM
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This needs to stay on the front page
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Aficionado [118]
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Posts: 352
Joined: 1/1/07
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 29, 2010, 12:02 PM
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quozzel has written nothing but truth for years. That said, what he's written now should have been widely known among fans the moment they hired Swinney over pursuing Bud Foster. Utter carelessness and complacency aren't new phenomena at Clemson.
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CU Medallion [51555]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43085
Joined: 8/10/04
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bump***
Nov 29, 2010, 12:04 PM
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CU Guru [1313]
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Posts: 806
Joined: 6/14/10
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But we have The Hill and the magical rock...
Nov 29, 2010, 4:11 PM
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This Admin has deceived us. They told us they were serious about football, and they sang lullabyes about all of our great traditons and made us feel all warm and fuzzy about CU football. Of course this was just a ruse to keep us sending our money in. I love Clemson, but our athletic program is just pathetic.
We are the Chicago Cubs of college football.
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Aficionado [118]
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Posts: 352
Joined: 1/1/07
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 29, 2010, 4:22 PM
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Good point. Clemson's leadership (or lack thereof) has sat on its laurels for decades banking on football's tradition as a recurring selling point with fans, who bought into it every year hook-line-sinker. And many still do (too many, really).
The rock, the hill, the "family atmosphere", the "something in those hills" crap, the tombstones, the list seems endless. The fact is there is no other tradition that can trump championships. Nothing.
Keep sitting on its @$$ and Clemson will become Ole Miss: a sucker of a fanbase and cosmetic tradition but zero in the trophy case to justify any of it. And it's getting close to that already.
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Head Coach [781]
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bump***
Nov 30, 2010, 8:13 AM
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Varsity [222]
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Nov 30, 2010, 8:39 AM
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Exactly what would you like for either of them to say? Would you like Phillips and Barker to rip the coaches for our 6-6 record? We have a football coach. He speaks for the football program, and very well, I might add. He takes and places responsibility for our deficiences appropriately. It would be very inappropriate for Phillips or Barker to make any disparaging comments other than to express their disappointment, if asked, which we all feel.
Dabo has had 2 1/2 years as HC. This one will only be his second full recruiting class. He is going to be our football coach next year, and, I believe, for years to come. Do you really want to hear the administration say anything indicating a lack of support?
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Head Coach [762]
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loud and rambling does not a leader make***
Nov 30, 2010, 9:01 AM
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110%er [7913]
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It's quite simple...there's isn't an all out commitment
Nov 30, 2010, 1:33 PM
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to win....there isn't. You don't hire Dabo if you are committed to winning. You don't. No other school in the ACC would have hired this guy but yet...the school with the highest revenue in football and highest attendance does. Doesn't make sense. Now I don't want to hear that winning and academics can't go hand in hand. It's not as if you have to sacrifice one for the other.
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110%er [6611]
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BUMP: Still No Answers***
Dec 1, 2010, 10:19 AM
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Fan [96]
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Posts: 148
Joined: 9/13/09
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Re: the silence from our leadership is deafening
Dec 1, 2010, 10:23 AM
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TDP's comment in your post about "metrics" reminds me of a quote of his from the Bowden era. It's truely priceless....
"We are pleased with the progress that Coach Bowden has made."
This quote from TDP came at the end of TB's reign here at Clemson. Pleased with the progress??? Really Terry Don?
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CU Medallion [51555]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43085
Joined: 8/10/04
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bump.***
Dec 2, 2010, 10:39 AM
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110%er [7913]
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bump***
Dec 2, 2010, 10:52 AM
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All-TigerNet [10901]
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bump***
Dec 3, 2010, 4:11 PM
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Virtuoso [621]
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Posts: 1777
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what leaders?
Dec 3, 2010, 4:44 PM
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we have leaders?
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