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Topic: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule
Replies: 82   Last Post: Jan 13, 2016, 11:23 AM by: cougar11
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Replies: 82  

On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule

emoji_events [15]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 12:59 AM
 

Article 3a, No Team A player may touch a free-kicked ball until after:

"3. It touches any player, the ground, an offical or ANYTHING beyond Team B's restraining line."

As we were penalized earlier in the season for an onside kick where the opposing team did not have a chance to catch it and it had not "touched" anything. That's what Dabo was screaming about. The receiving team MUST have a chance at the ball first. See rule 3a.3 above.

They kicked the ball to themselves. It didn't touch anything. Our players did not have a CHANCE to catch it and it did not TOUCH anything beyond the restraining line except the receiving Alabama player.

They called it against us before, the Pac 12 officials missed it.

2020 orange level member

it hit the ground, bubba***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:00 AM
 



If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


No it didnt.... bubba******

[3]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:00 AM
 



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Re: Yep***

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:02 AM
 




Re: Yep***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:05 AM
 

Bubba when the He77 did it hit the ground


Just watched it....

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:02 AM
 

It did not hit the ground

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you left off the .... bubba.***

[2]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:03 AM
 



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Rewinded it and watched it again....

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:04 AM
 

It still didn't hit the ground. Straight in the air


Message was edited by: franc1968®


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Ooooh you just dabbed on him***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:13 AM
 




Same play we got flagged on in the USuC game last year.

[2]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 6:33 PM
 

It did not hit the ground.

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yeah, i finally rewatched it, you are correct***

[2]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:05 AM
 



If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


do know I still think we should have been ready for it

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:07 AM
 

I think we outplayed them but got out coached. There's a reason Saban has 5 championships...but Dabo will learn from it

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Re: do know I still think we should have been ready for it


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:11 AM
 

Franc, I would beg to differ: we got out played at the end, but not out coached. Saban pulled plays from his bag, but the kick return & blown coverages weren't those plays.

2020 student level member

“To See a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.” WB


so you don't think Kiffen called plays that exposed our....

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:16 AM
 

weaknesses? At the risk of sounding negative, Dabo has a motto that the "standard is the best." Our special teams has been bad all year, actually the last few years. We haven't had a threat at kick returns since Sammy left.

If we're going to be the best, we have to fix that.

With that said, I hate to lose, but proud of this team. I fully expect Dabo to fix it.

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Re: so you don't think Kiffen called plays that exposed our....


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:42 PM
 

> weaknesses? At the risk of sounding negative, Dabo
> has a motto that the "standard is the best." Our
> special teams has been bad all year, actually the
> last few years. We haven't had a threat at kick
> returns since Sammy left.
>
> If we're going to be the best, we have to fix that.
>
> With that said, I hate to lose, but proud of this
> team. I fully expect Dabo to fix it.

" with that said " ( gag on that ) , you should demand that Dabo have a plan for correcting this on your desk , chop - chop .

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maybe if franc used the magic word?***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:44 PM
 



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Delta1


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:52 AM
 

Our coaches had us squeezing in for better blocking on a return. Thst made us susceptible. Saban made us pay.

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Re: do know I still think we should have been ready for it


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:34 AM
 

Thumbs up franc. Perfect post.

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Hey Bubba it did not hit the ground period...***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:08 AM
 



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no it was straight in the air bubba***

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:18 AM
 



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Re: it hit the ground, bubba***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:30 PM
 

You just " crashed " buddy . Boom .

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No - did not hit ground***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 4:04 PM
 




Re: it hit the ground, bubba***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 4:22 PM
 

Did not. It's in Utube. It did not hit the ground


Is the restraining line the 10yards?


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:01 AM
 

Therefore they can touch it?


Re: Is the restraining line the 10yards?

[2]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:09 AM
 

Yes, our team is team B, lined up on the restraining line (10 yards).

Look at the video. The kick leaves the tee and lands in the Alabama players hands, it didn't touch anything between the tee and the player.

Article 3a, No Team A player may touch a free-kicked ball until after:

"3. It touches any player, the ground, an offical or ANYTHING beyond Team B's restraining line(10 yds)."

That's what Dabo was screaming about. The receiving team MUST have a chance to catch the ball.


2020 orange level member

only if th player calls for a fair catch***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 6:18 PM
 




Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:01 AM
 

Thank you. And that play turned the tide - literally


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:03 AM
 

Would "anything beyond the line" include an opposing player? If so, it's a legal catch.


Yes.


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:24 PM
 

An opposing player is something or anything.

"Stalwart universities—Harvard, Princeton, Yale—most certainly offer status. The Citadel offers character. "


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule

[2]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:04 AM
 

Thank you for this, but it was legit. They executed & we didn't on that play, end of it.

2020 student level member

“To See a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.” WB


No it wasn't he showed you the rule, you are wrong***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:21 AM
 



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I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw this.

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:05 AM
 

It was illegal, but the refs didn't care. The whole game had terrible calls both ways, but this one and missing the game clock at the end off the half were inexcusable. Hope those refs get fired from whatever their real jobs are.


Stephen Furr @ FSU 2003 or 2004.... We had an onside kick...


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:06 AM
 

That was very similar. We like caught it right on the fly.... But I guess it bounced first? Anyone remember?


Onsides kick in the Coot game last year was called back


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:08 AM
 

because the ball was kicked straight in the air without first bouncing off the ground like most onsides kicks do. Was the kick straight in the air ?


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:06 AM
 

Yeah, I wouldn't go there.
And you're wrong.


That's nice. Why do you say that?***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:07 AM
 



2020 white level member

Clemson


you r correct


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:07 AM
 

I went and looked at it. It never hit the ground. It came right off the tee. And you can see that clearly.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:10 AM
 

does a Team A player count as ANYTHING beyond team Bs restraining line?

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"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:14 AM
 

Yep. It's any player. Not any player from team B.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


So they can't touch it unless they touch it first?


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:40 AM
 

"No Team A player may touch a free-kicked ball until after It touches any player."

That makes zero logical sense. The only way the rule makes sense is if it is referring to Team B players.

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Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:37 AM
 

You don't comprehend what you read?

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Anonymous 08...


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:40 AM
 

Can you not comprehend what you read?

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Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:18 AM
 

> does a Team A player count as ANYTHING beyond team Bs
> restraining line?

I don't think so. No Team A player can touch the ball until it is touched by another Team A player would make no sense.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. The kickoff return by what's his name was really the final nail.

But for losing a game, we played Alabama better than anyone this year.

2020 orange level member

Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule

[3]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:11 AM
 

Wrong you omitted Rule 6.3a.2 : It breaks the plane of and remains beyond Team B’s restraining line.

Stop trying to stir up trouble. The call was correct and the kick was legal. It is just that no other team in the NCAA would let it happen without blocking anyone.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:14 AM
 

See attached.


Irmo.. post exception rule 6-4-1


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:56 AM
 

Please.

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If a Clemson player would have raised his hand for a fair catch...


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:18 AM
 

I think then it would have been illegal

I think that's what happen in the coot game

Go TIGERS

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Work Hard, Do Your Best, Keep Your Word, Never Get Too Big For Your Britches, Trust In God, Have no fear and Never Forget a Friend ~ Harry S. Truman


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:18 AM
 

I guess I'm a little mixed up on the and/or bit. Why have the second rule if it isn't "and". Isn't that's little redundant.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:23 AM
 

It's either 1 or 2 or 3. Rule 3 is in case it his something beyond restraining line and bounces back in front of restraining line. It was a legal play.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:26 AM
 

Why wasn't it legal against the coots in 2014? The Ball NEVER TOUChEd the ground.... Everyone who has ever played or watched a game knows on onside kicks the ball has to bounce one time... End of discussion!


That WAS NOT the ruling in the SC game***

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:19 AM
 



"I've been working since I was 15 continually until now. I worked 40 hours a week at 15, when it wasn't even legal for 15 year olds to work that many hours."


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:17 AM
 

Yep, very similar to our onside kick in SC game. So we got screwed twice on that play this year. Could Dabo have not called timeout, challenge flag, or something to give the officials time to review the rule?


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:21 AM
 

It wasn't a free kick. Free kick is after a safety.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:24 AM
 

Incorrect - Kickoffs and safety free kicks differ only in the yardline from which they start. Both are free kicks per the rule book.

http://www.ncfafootball.com/resources/Rules/FR15.pdf


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:27 AM
 

the officials in the coot game called it right, but explained it wrong. the alabama kick tonight was legal...however, had one of our players thought to call for a fair catch, before the alabama player caught the ball in the air, without it first touching, the ground, it would have been a penalty and we would have gotten possession of the ball at the spot of the foul


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:28 AM
 

Agreed, we had the same attempt we made I think last year penalized. However, on that play, they signaled for a fair catch. WE should have had our guys coached to wave for a fair catch even if you can't catch it.


Best excuses


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:25 PM
 

What do you guys think the best excuses are for me to use for why we lost when I see my coot friends later today? I can't stand their talk about how we blew our chance to hoist the trophy and how it's super hard to get back to the championship even if you're good (I just know they'll talk about all the NFL talent OSU had coming back this season).


Re: Best excuses


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:55 PM
 

You are a chicken troll and are fooling no one.

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null


Re: Best excuses


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:55 PM
 

If you run into a cockroach in your garage....do you explain anything to him?

2020 orange level member

Re: Best excuses


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 3:39 PM
 

You wouldn't know what it was like to play for a championship...

Unless all of a sudden championships became "dicks" and "play" was redefined to mean "suck"


Re: Best excuses


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 4:04 PM
 

Glad you do though. What position do you play again? Clown.


Re: Best excuses


Posted: Jan 13, 2016, 11:23 AM
 

I'm your phuckin' daddy, that's all you need to know


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 1:57 PM
 

why didn't Dabo challenge it?

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Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:39 PM
 

If people really want to understand the issue, it comes into the fact that no one was in the spot the ball was kicked to, regretfully. Something from what I am reading Bama noticed in film study, when they payed attention to how tight our players line up at the line on a kick, as well as how Kearse starts running instead of waiting to see where the ball is kicked. And if you notice, that's how it exactly happened....everyone on the inside, Kearse having to backpedal to try to get to where the Bama player went.

1) It was a free kick, and it was kicked directly up in the air off the stand.
2) Rule 6, section 4 states:
ARTICLE 1.
a. A player of the receiving team within the boundary lines attempting to catch a kick, and so located that he could have caught a free kick or a scrimmage kick that is beyond the neutral zone, must be given an unimpeded opportunity to catch the kick (A.R. 6-3-1-III, A.R. 6-4-1-V, VI and IX).

b. It is an interference foul if, before the receiver touches the ball, a Team A player enters the area defined by the width of the receiver’s shoulders and extending one yard in front of him. When in question it is a foul.(A.R.6-4-1-X-XIII)

c. This protection terminates when the kick touches the ground (Exception: Free kick, par. f below), when any player of Team B muffs or touches a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone, or when any player of Team B muffs or touches a free kick in the field of play or in the end zone (Exception: Rule 6-5-1-b) (A.R. 6-4-1-IV).

3) Per section a of article 1, the player must be located so that he could have caught the free kick that is beyond the neutral zone. Since Kearse (who was the closest) nor any other player was located where they could have caught the free kick, there is no situation to cause for the player to have to be unimpeded for a catch (i.e. we needed a player to be standing there). Thus it becomes a live ball after it cross that 10 yard mark.

The only issue I question is are they allowed to direct catch in that case, or should it have had to hit the ground first, per section c? Or does that rule also get negated by not having a player in that spot?


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:40 PM
 

*paid


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:43 PM
 
image.png(211.5 K)

Apparently this is the rule. It is from Twitter, so I'm not sure how legitimate the source is.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:47 PM
 

Nope, that's just the base rule of an onside kick (the 10 yard rule)...there is the section I posted that comes into play when it is a free kick that is directly up in the air. Then in that case, even if it makes it 10 yards, the receiving team must have an unimpeded chance to catch the ball. Issue becomes in the fact we had no player there...thus no one to impede.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:48 PM
 

i.e...on a free kick, it becomes the Exception stated on Rule 2...that leads to Rule 6-4-1.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:45 PM
 

For those that want to verify the kick being directly up, not into the ground:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcYO3IEu6-0


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 2:50 PM
 

SC called for a fair catch and got nailed in the kick off. Bama kicked it to where noone was and Dabo was not good enough to coach his players to call for a fair catch. The kick was legal. The onside kick was not the reason you lost no more than the fake punk was the reason why Oklahoma lost. You were outcoached and they made plays when they needed too.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 5:28 PM
 

Did anyone say otherwise?? Might want to look above...that's what I said. Clemson player wasn't in position to catch, thus no one there to say was impeded against. That's the difference between that kick and the SCar one. It was a good call by Saban.


Re: On side kick was illegal: Here's the Rule


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 5:36 PM
 

And I love how you homers think it's just "out coached".....did he make a good call based on things they saw in film watching the special teams...yes. Great call.

Wouldn't say these numbers vouch for "out coached" though. Just one team made a few plays that made a difference, and the one TO of the game that led to a score. But you can keep blowing smoke up your butt all you want.




Well... it's actually legal

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 3:38 PM
 

http://www.sportsgrid.com/ncaa-football/alabamas-crazy-surprise-onside-kick-was-indeed-legal/


Oh yeah an article by a hack is proof. I've seen a lot of


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 3:50 PM
 

thread on here but yet to see one that explains why the ref explicitly stated in the USuC game that that the kick was illegal because it did not hit the ground but yet last night that was not the case. Either the refs in one of the games got the call wrong or explained it incorrectly.


Re: Oh yeah an article by a hack is proof. I've seen a lot of


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 4:01 PM
 

The coots called for a fair catch and were obstructed when trying to catch the ball. Totally different here. We were caught with our pants down. Even if you don't trust the source (not sure why), at least read the rule; it's clearly legal. This is a non-issue and we should chill w/ making up excuses. We played well, but came up short. The end.


Re: Oh yeah an article by a hack is proof. I've seen a lot of


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 4:32 PM
 

It doesn't even matter if he called for a fair catch. Even if he didn't he has the right to catch the ball at it is considered interference if a player from the kicking team catches the ball in front of the receiving player. He the kicking team player can't be within a yard in front of the player (shoulder width in front). Basically think of it as the old Halo Rule. It doesn't matter if the player calls for a fair catch or not, the kicking team can't enter into that area.

Our player wasn't within 5 yards of the ball so even if he called for a fair catch Alabama could have still caught it.


The rule is: It is an interference foul if, before the receiver touches the ball, a Team A player enters the area defined by the width of the receiver’s shoulders and extending one yard in front of him.


Re: Oh yeah an article by a hack is proof. I've seen a lot of

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 5:30 PM
 

^ BINGO

NCAA (2014)
Rule 6 Section 4 Opportunity To Catch a Kick

Interference With Opportunity

ARTICLE 1. a. A player of the receiving team within the boundary lines attempting to catch a kick, and so located that he could have caught a free kick or a scrimmage kick that is beyond the neutral zone, must be given an unimpeded opportunity to catch the kick (A.R. 6-3-1-III, A.R. 6-4-1-V, VI and IX).

b. It is an interference foul if, before the receiver touches the ball, a Team A player enters the area defined by the width of the receiver’s shoulders and extending one yard in front of him. When in question it is a foul.(A.R.6-4-1-X-XIII)

c. This protection terminates when the kick touches the ground (Exception: Free kick, par. f below), when any player of Team B muffs or touches a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone, or when any player of Team B muffs or touches a free kick in the field of play or in the end zone (Exception: Rule 6-5-1-b) (A.R. 6-4-1-IV).

Bolded area is the difference between the two, and the reason it was legal in the National Championship. Clemson didn't have a guy there, thus no one to say was impeded against....SCar did have a player there, that even called fair catch. So it was called correctly by rule in both games. Simple as that.


that is incorrect..


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 6:33 PM
 

receiving team can call a fair catch and cannot be interferred with by the kicking team. If he does not signal fair catch, it is a free ball after it goes 10 yards OR touches receiving teams player or ref before going 10 yds. That is to protect the receiver IF the signal is made.


Re: Oh yeah an article by a hack is proof. I've seen a lot of

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 4:16 PM
 

The referee was just trying to explain it in the Carolina game.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Imagine this.


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 4:11 PM
 

We got burned on that play in the USuCk game but our coaches didn't research the rule book and fully investigate the call to see if we were being treated fairly.

To think that Dabo didn't know the rule better than the guys on the field is quite naive after being burn by it before.

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our player was in no position to catch the ball and did not

[2]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 5:05 PM
 

signal for a fair catch (the fair catch would not have been allowed anyway because Kearse couldn't get to ball before it dropped).

Therefore the Officials unfortunately got it right.... it was a free ball once it broke the plane of 10 yards.

that being said, we had lots of opportunities to win against Bama that other teams did not. The Tide know they were in a helluva fight, and they wouldn't want to have to play it again - only the onsides kick and the runback separated them, and those sorts of things can't always be counted on to go your way

If Bama is #1, The Tigers are no worse than #1a.

Great freakin season with a lot of true respect earned for our Program.

#GoTigers!


you omitted the entire rule...

[1]
Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 6:16 PM
 

Touching and Recovery of a Free Kick
ARTICLE 3. a. No Team A player may touch a free-kicked ball until after:
1. It touches a Team B player (Exception: Rules 6-1-4 and 6-5-1-b);
2. It breaks the plane of and remains beyond Team B’s restraining line (Exception: Rule 6-4-1) (A.R. 2-12-5-I); OR
3. It touches any player, the ground, an official or anything beyond Team B’s restraining line.
Thereafter, all players of Team A become eligible to touch, recover or catch the kick.

and

Eligibility to Block
ARTICLE 12
No Team A player may block an opponent until Team A is eligible to touch a free-kicked b


you did not include the OR in #2...changes the entire meaning of what you posted (you can refer to NCAA rule book for the clarification)

#1 means that team A cannot touch the ball if it has not traveled 10 yds.
#2 is exactly what happened


^ look here for de troof***


Posted: Jan 12, 2016, 6:28 PM
 




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