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Topic: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.
Replies: 68   Last Post: Apr 18, 2020 8:38 PM by: deadsolidperfect®
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Replies: 68  

Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.

emoji_events [25]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 9:55 PM
 

For several reasons:

1. It won’t be available for 12-18 months. We can’t keep the world shut down that long while we wait.

2. The time to develop a vaccine would allow time for some research to be done, but it wouldn’t be a guaranteed success. For the “evidence-based medicine” folks out there, we would be releasing a vaccine before knowing enough about it.

3. Pushing a vaccine through research and development that quickly tells us little about long-term safety.

4. It minimizes the importance of people taking their health into their own hands. People can improve their health by eating better, exercising, losing weight, optimizing their vitamin D status, etc.

5. We still don’t know much about this virus. We don’t know the true infection rate or the true mortality rate. If the mortality rate is low enough, a vaccine wouldn’t necessarily be the best approach (especially if it is given on a large scale without enough research supporting its efficacy and/or safety).

I’m all for research geared toward a vaccine, but we are treading in dangerous water if we view a vaccine as our only hope.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


If you could trust people to behave well,

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 10:02 PM
 

and not infect others, the virus would die out. It doesn’t take much more than face covering, washing hands, and moderate caution for a few weeks. But people are idiots. Witness the gun nuts in Michigan today protesting - guarantee there’s a dozen or more new infections because of their bad behavior.


thank goodness the abortion clinics are deemed essential and

emoji_events [11]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 10:31 PM
 

nobody is going to catch their death in a place like that.

;)

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Most surgical abortions happen in regular doctors’ offices

[1]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 11:11 PM
 

It’s an open secret, now just like it was when abortion wasn’t legal everywhere.


Re: Most surgical abortions happen in regular doctors’ offices

[3]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 11:35 PM
 

It’s no secret doctor’s offices can be very deadly.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Re: thank goodness the abortion clinics are deemed essential and

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 3:08 AM
 

Why are you bringing up abortions? What does this have to do with anything?


Re: thank goodness the abortion clinics are deemed essential and

[4]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 3:18 AM
 

Possibly because they are deaths that some have no problem accepting. Dichotomy of whether we can accept the death of thousands of mostly older or compromised persons (myself included) vs the millions/possibly billions that will perish with a global economic collapse.

2020 white level member

Re: thank goodness the abortion clinics are deemed essential and

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 8:38 AM
 

Perhaps, a global economy that allows millions to starve to death each year, should be refactored a bit.


Re: thank goodness the abortion clinics are deemed essential and

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:07 AM
 

Can you expand on that when we send tons of food to poor countries and their corrupt leaders never distribute it. What does that have to do with the global economy?


I think abortions are horrible, but my wife has volunteered

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:42 AM
 

as a counselor at a pregnancy center off and on for the last decade and we have come to realize through her experiences that the way to fight abortion is not by banning it. These women need better support systems.

2020 white level member

Re: I think abortions are horrible, but my wife has volunteered

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 10:18 AM
 

Thank you for your thoughts, and for your wife's very real sacrifices for the sake of the next generation.

Preserving the life of someone who has no voice is the most fundamental charge of a moral society. But you're right, it cannot end there. As the voiceless becomes the helpless, a moral society still has responsibility to aid the life, the person it preserved.

The criticism of politicians and abortion is simply a lightning rod/litmus test in these times when freedoms are being stripped.

To make their own jobs easier, government will strip ALL of our first amendment freedoms and our Declaration of Independence's "inalienable rights" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the name of "public safety."

But they will still leave us the right to abortion on demand. And the freedom of the press will never be infringed upon.

Was it Ben Franklin who said, "Freedom of the press is like guaranteeing safety to a cat in a room full of rocking chairs." Maybe it wasn't Franklin. It sounds more like my granddad. Except now we have lots more cats in that room.

Anyway, thanks again for your efforts.


Re: If you could trust people to behave well,

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 12:20 AM
 

Are you against protesting? I mean besides your concern for their health? Protesting has often come with dangerous ramifications btw. Was it what they were protesting?

2020 white level member

Re: If you could trust people to behave well,

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 12:22 AM
 

I’ve heard that dissent is The Highest Form of Patriotism.
But whether it’s portrayed that way by the media depends on whether you are protesting against an (R) or a (D).

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


They went with intent to clog up the streets

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 2:14 AM
 

with traffic. At least a few essential health care workers couldn’t get to the hospitals. It was a mix of proud boys, militia members, and some conservative group supported by devos and prince. Lot of MAGA morons.


Re: They went with intent to clog up the streets

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 2:55 AM
 

Well if it isn’t gun nuts, it’s car nuts. If they aren’t ANTIFA (an oxymoron if I’ve ever seen it) they’re moron’s? I haven’t been here long but you seem pretty good at generalizations and calling names. Keep on, your ilk will will earn another 4 years of the boogie man.

2020 white level member

It’s generous to call people

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 7:31 AM
 

who would intentionally block all the streets during a public health crisis morons. It’s an insult to actual morons and I’m sorry. A moron is somebody with the intellectual capacity of a child between 8 and 12 years old. Most 12 year olds are smarter than those MAGA people.


I'm guessing you have no issues when your hippie snowflake

[4]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:13 AM
 

brethren gather in protest. But when conservatives gather in protest of a governor who has spearheaded substantial and egregious government overreach to accomplish nothing but a "hey look at me, I'm a powerful leader, Biden pay attention, look at me being super strong, what a great running mate I would be" they are all morons?

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: It’s generous to call people

emoji_events [12]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:21 AM
 

Archie, What a drama queen you are!

"They blocked the streets." Umm, that was the point. There was no other traffic! Gov Whitmer's capricious executive order has made sure of that!

'During a public health crisis' she won't even allow them to grow their own food.

You can't buy seeds--not even from Lowe's or Walmart--but you can go to the store to buy lottery tickets , because the state needs your money, and everyone knows the lottery is a losing game--intended to be a voluntary tax primarily on people of color--but no Dem wants to admit it.

Michiganders can't get medical care unless they are having an emergency, but their daughters can still get abortions immediately without parental notification. Must not be a real health crisis, if parents don't have to look after someone who exterminated their grandbaby as an outpatient.

The only people allowed to vacation in Michigan are the ones from out of state. Michiganders are not even allowed to use their cabins in the woods during your 'public health crisis'.

Oh, and BTW, 80% of Michigan's positives are from 3 counties.

The rest of the state is relatively untouched.

These are not just "gun nuts". Granted they might be drama queens, but unlike you they are drama queens unreasonably deprived of liberty and their opportunity to pursue life and happiness after already having their incomes taken away. They are merely exercising their first amendment right to Petition the government. In the street.

From all your previous liberal-leaning posts, I thought you were against ego-driven egomaniacal chief executives, but I guess if they are really extreme, not coloured orange and have a D after their name, you're just fine with them.


Re: It’s generous to call people

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 1:06 PM
 

Not enough thumbs up to give you!

There's a lot of shortsightedness about that protest. It was announced days in advance. If EMT's are still trying to get genuine medical emergencies to Sparrow Hospital knowing this was/is happening, I guess I don't know what to say. A spokesman for the hospital said there were no issues.

Either way, I guess certain people expect only candy and roses when trying to defend one's rights and liberties. *shrug* I'm only surprised this happened in the Midwest first.


Re: It’s generous to call people

[4]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:25 AM
 

Let me get this straight:

Protests over a justified policy shooting or just Trump in general - stunning and brave.

Protest over government overreach and rights being infringed - Bad behavior.

2020 student level member

Brad Brownell: more losses than any other coach in school history.


Weird, some of these people don't seem like MAGA folks

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 10:20 AM
 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/us/coronavirus-car-protests/index.html


2020 white level member

Clemson


Trump signs, Nazi flags, Confederate flags


Posted: Apr 16, 2020 10:57 AM
 

and red hats. Looks like MAGA to me.


So those are Trump supporters protesting to abolish ICE?

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 11:01 AM
 

Those are Trump supporters in Poland and Brazil? Those are Trump supporters protesting against immigration policies?

I guess that eliminates all of the stereotypes liberals use to generalize republicans. Thanks!

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


You got lost.

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 6:18 PM
 

This was about the militia protesting in Michigan. If you haven’t heard of Michigan, the militia is an anti-government white supremacist group.


Re: You got lost.

[4]
Posted: Apr 17, 2020 2:15 AM
 

Your information is prejudicial and factually incorrect. Not even CNN was as incorrect as you on this.

The protest was entitled "Operation: Gridlock", and was called over 10 days in advance by Michigan Conservative Coalition. Many groups were included in the contacts. Thanks to the Governor, it's not as though they were allowed to do anything else, like work or vacation. If any Deplorables showed up, it's not as though they don't have equal right to protest tyranny.

Betsy de Vos' family was not directly affiliated with the protest, though the group she used to be a part of contributed $250--that's peanuts--to the Facebook page of MCC.

You got your misinformation from Gov Whitmer, whose pettiness and megalomania trumps Trump. She actually promoted the protest herself at one of her press briefings when she tried to undermine it in advance by blaming it on the de Vos family. Since she spread that misinformation, it's no wonder you believed it.

Gov Whitmer has a history of high-handedness that is uncommon at the state level. When she actually gave an audience to the concerns of business leaders whose livelihoods were in jeopardy, not from the virus but from the Draconian lockdown she imposed that blanketed the state as though they all were hot spots like Detroit, the conservatives thought she would adjust her guidelines to match the national ones. Instead she thumbed her nose. She made the restrictions even tighter than before, far more restrictive than the national guidelines.

This was on the heels of her having an abortion protestor arrested for protesting within the law at an abortion clinic as he always did--but this time he was cited for violating the Stay Home order. He sued Gov Whitmer personally, so she had his citation dropped, but that fueled the protest fire.

Michiganders are concerned that Gov Whitmer is campaigning for Veep instead of helping her state. When you attack the President whenever the mike is on, you're not focused on your own state. When you also hire Pete Buttigieg's very effective press secretary just before the state hiring freeze goes into effect, you clearly have national aspirations.

And we all know that "Ol' Slow Joe" will need a go-getter as VP and possibly as successor to the White House. If it's a female, that's even better, and if she doesn't worry too much about legalities and other people's rights, that makes her perfect for Joe.

My point is that the protest was the natural and organic response to unreasonable restrictions. The tyrant will always characterize protest as 'other people's pettiness'. Gov Whitmer would be terrible for America if we end up with recurring waves of Corona.


Too long to read


Posted: Apr 17, 2020 2:46 AM
 

Before you wait too long, buzz somebody to check your diaper.


Re: Too long to read

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2020 8:23 AM
 

Gotta go to work. Don't have time to trade insults with a child.

Too bad I have to allow you to self-educate again. I recommend reading instead of watching TV this time. I think you'll see an improvement.

Seriously, try Realclearpolitics.com. They're like Reader's Digest of politics and current events pulling contributions from all across the spectrum. Even if you only read from your own viewpoint, your knowledge will be more factual instead of prejudicial. (Writers cite far more references you can check out than TV talkers do.)

Stay well.


I was out of line


Posted: Apr 17, 2020 9:13 PM
 

I have too many articles on other topics to read/review as it is. Publishers don't seem to be affected at all.


Re: Too long to read

[3]
Posted: Apr 17, 2020 1:52 PM
 

Translation: I dont like facts getting in the way of my false narrative.

2020 student level member

Brad Brownell: more losses than any other coach in school history.


It's ok to admit you didn't open the link that

[4]
Posted: Apr 17, 2020 8:53 AM
 

CUgrad2011® posted. I understand it's inconvenient for your argument.

You tried though and I admire that enthusiasm.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


She posted something unrelated


Posted: Apr 18, 2020 4:29 PM
 

My post was about the hate groups involved in the Michigan protest. The proud boys who blocked a hospital entrance, the Michigan militiamen who stood out with their swastika tattoos and no PPE. There were some ordinary people there, just like there were at the hate rally in Charlottesville, but they mostly stayed in their cars.


Tried seems a bit generous.***


Posted: Apr 18, 2020 8:38 PM
 



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg


Re: They went with intent to clog up the streets

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 1:57 PM
 

You are truly an idiot......no doubt about that......Go Tigers!!!!!


Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.

[4]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 10:04 PM
 

Worst mistake in development is not stepping through the phase gates and identifying all the potential risks with mitigations based on statistical relevance. Scary thought to rush something like this.

Too many examples to site where the r&d companies and mfg’s rushed a product to market that had life-threatening risks they “missed” during development.

Scary stuff.

2020 white level member

But vaccines for the flu and colds work so well...***

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 10:04 PM
 




Re: But vaccines for the flu and colds work so well...***


Posted: Apr 16, 2020 8:43 AM
 

BengalBilly

While the flu vaccine is not 100% effective at preventing someone from getting the flu it not only shortens the time you have the flu, but it also reduces the severity of the symptoms.

Just curious, but are you listening to the CDC about social distancing?


I've been social distancing

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:51 AM
 

for decades.


Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.

[2]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 10:26 PM
 

JK, I appreciate what you're saying.

Without a vaccine, how many cases is too many?

It may take 5 years to build herd immunity.

We have values in conflict right now; how do we resolve our dilemma?

Frankly, I think the school year itself will push us to change. I just don't know what they'll all decide.

Since a second wave of the virus can be expected regardless of when we go back to "normal", what will the schools do? They have to pay mortgages on those dorms and buildings, so I suppose they want to sell room and board this year.

We can imagine that many athletes are having difficulty in their classes right now (limited access to tutoring, poor study habits without the school structure to help, spotty wi-fi, too many distractions). Can we expect compliance officers to uphold full academic integrity in the face of so many issues?

ADs may want to keep their athletes on campus.

And what about the second wave?

All of the scientific data we've accumulated on this thing still won't give us a way to solve our ethical issues.

At what point do we become like the Swedes and just be passive for all but the most at-risk?

If I'm an at-risk season ticket holder, must I broker all my tickets, or do I waive my right to sue the school if I attend a game and get sick?

IDK.


It’s definitely a tough situation.

emoji_events [9]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 10:35 PM
 

I have been on board with social distancing and flattening the curve, but we simply can’t keep doing this for months on end. Too many businesses will suffer, and too many lives will be ruined. Plus, people will develop all sorts of mental health issues (in addition to the anxiety and fear this thing has already caused a lot of people).

I’m not suggesting that we go back to life as usual tomorrow. I’m also not saying that we should be careless with those among us who are in the high risk group. But at some point, we will be forced to accept the fact that we’ve stayed quarantined long enough and must start getting back to life as we knew it.

I don’t know when that will be, but my guess is that many of the restrictions will have to begin being lifted around June 1 if not before. Perhaps at that time the high risk populations can stay home while lower risk begin returning to work, school, etc.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


What we need is a #### hot summer to start

[2]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 10:41 PM
 

Now!

2020 white level member

Re: college enrollment to drop 15%

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 12:54 AM
 

According to a projection by a higher education trade group that went unnamed in an article in NYT.

Apparently this is a shot-in-the-dark estimate for higher education across the country. Some think that junior colleges and trade schools will see a boom of students staying close to home. That means the bigger schools are projected to see an even larger drop in enrollment. (IF the projection holds true.) At least they plan to host some students!

Sorry I don't subscribe to NYT to see the rest of the story.


Re: college enrollment to drop 15%

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 4:47 AM
 

I would hope trade school enrollment would go up.

1. A LOT of people attending/aspiring to 4 year universities have no business there. (Said schools have stopped weeding them out in the search for mo money IMHO)

2. There are A LOT of great paying jobs out there in the trades (plumbing, electrical, Hvac, etc.). Anyone here had any issues finding one of these to show up? On time? Good work? Reasonable price?

3. Recession (pandemic) proof. Most of these are essential, won’t be replaced by tech any time soon, and did I mention essential? (Let ac go out in summertime SC, or not be able to flush a toilet or have running water)

4. Tired of listening to Millennials whining about student debt when their degree in underwater basket weaving isn’t leading to a dream job. (Ok, this last point was a generalization but maybe some truth to it?)

2020 white level member

I do not think you understand the gravity of this.

[3]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 11:25 PM
 

1. at best

2. it wont be released until it is a guaranteed success, that is why they can take up to ten years to develop.

3. we are not pushing anything, again, it will not be released until it has been widely tested and deemed safe. Do you not trust others to do their jobs properly? Do you really believe we will release a vaccine that is more dangerous than the virus itself? You would have to have a pretty cynical view of science and medicine to believe this.

4. Tell that to the 34 million people with diabetes, good luck getting people to take their health seriously. Less than 5% of our population exercises regularly. This Pandemic isn't going to change that.

5. We know pretty well what the mortality rate is with 2 million confirmed cases, and 134k deaths. I am not a researcher, but this seems like a pretty good sample pool. Globally from confirmed cases it is 6.5%, in the US it is 4.4% among confirmed cases.


So I ask again, if I offered you a bag of skittles, and told you two of them were laced with cyanide, would you eat one if I offered? because it seems like you are saying yes. otherwise social distancing is the new normal.

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Re: I do not think you understand the gravity of this.

[2]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 11:54 PM
 

Man, there is a lot of pressure to solve this. I hope you are right about the measures necessary to ensure it is safe for the masses.
I’m not advocating anything intentional or sinister, but as the world turns, we want a quick fix. This is bad on all fronts.

2020 white level member

Re: I do not think you understand the gravity of this.

[3]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 11:55 PM
 

cyanide skittles? I'll be passing by the Tigerbalm house on Halloween.


Re: I do not think you understand the gravity of this.

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 12:07 AM
 

If your skittle bag has 329,500,000 skittles in it, and 30,844 of them are deadly (or even 68,000 or whatever the number ends up being)- and the alternative is losing my job - sure.

But to be fair, your analogy should include us taking hands full of your skittles and FORCING other people around us to eat one. People that didn’t want to be exposed, decided NOT to take that chance, but had it exposed to them by our thoughtlessness and greed.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Couple o' comments tb:

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 8:56 AM
 

4. Obviously, some ailments can't be helped. But assuming your 5% stat is correct - then all the OP is saying is some of those other 95% could get off of their buttocks...

5. Disagree entirely here. We have no idea of the mortality rate. Just heard that on the Roosevelt - 600 sailors tested positive - over half are asymptomatic. More people have had this than we know..

The skittles analogy doesn't hold water. I'm a healthy 50-year-old, your bag of skittles would have to have a lot more than 100 skittles in it to be an accurate depiction...

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Re: I do not think you understand the gravity of this.

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:45 AM
 

Tigerbalm1®

Your bag of Skittles argument is extremely flawed. Let's assume a 6% death rate of confirmed cases. There are approximately 54 Skittles in a bag. Just using the 6% death rate, that would mean that there would be approximately 3 Skittles that could kill you. You are assuming that every Skittle in the bag is COVID-19 laced, while 2 (in your argument) are laced with COVID-19 and cyanide. If I'm told that every Skittle in the bag has COVID-19, then I'm not eating any Skittles.

A more accurate reflection is to look at the whole population. Sticking with the one bag of skittles argument, right now we have 600,000 cases, which is .18% of population. So, what we need to do is multiple the 54 Skittles (representative of the population) and multiple by .18%. That yields .01 Skittles that are COVID-19 laced of which 6% of that is deadly. That means that are .0006 parts of the original 54 skittles that will kill you.

That number is actually reduced depending on age bracket. Those in each age bracket should consume the Skittles based on their risk. Those with preexisting conditions should probably avoid the Skittles altogether. Others can enjoy the Skittles in moderation (some even in excess) and still be fine.


Re: I do not think you understand the gravity of this.


Posted: Apr 16, 2020 2:27 PM
 

there are 54 skittle in a bag. the mortality rate in the US is 4.4%. My fuzzy math is correct. And I saw little reason to write a dissertation on age and the covid19 virus. you get my point.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Skittles themselves are ~Top 5 worst ever candies.

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 2:42 PM
 

You've waxed endlessly on rampant obesity, now you're pimpin' diabetes rich pellets of rainbowed goodness?

Give me the cyanide and begone foul temptress.




2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg


Your Skittles analogy was a poor one.

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 3:46 PM
 

Please just admit it.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.

[3]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 11:55 PM
 

Great civil discussion. Thank you for keeping it ??.

We know we have to strike a balance. Us grunts, not politicians are going to have to figure this out. Just think about it. What do we know. We know from incubation is maybe 14 days. We started to get flooded first to mid Feb timeframe. Then it started to spread...

Not long after that we essentially locked down. We knew it was widespread the first week of March. Here we are 5 weeks later and with all the strict measures in place... 30,000 have died.

Let that sink in - 30,000 in 5 weeks in lockdown. That's mind boggling to me. That's not panic. That's not fear mongering... That's reality. With h1n1 we had 17k in a year with no lockdown, and some immunity with flu vaccine and Tami flu, and it had floated around the world a long time.

This thing with that protein shield around that makes it last longer in the air, longer on surfaces, and no we don't know how many are infected but it's estimated maybe 6 to 7 million only. 2% of the country. Yes we have to get the country going and it's easy to be a big baby and mad because you can't go drink a beer when you're safe behind your keyboard...

It's quite another when you're sick with it and thinking every breath you muster may be your last. Ask the sick people if we should stay home. Yeah, only 80% get sick, yeah maybe 1 to 2 % die. So if just 60 % of the country gets it within the next year, that's roughly 200 million. If, only 1% die, that's 2 million in a year. Can anyone say, we'll that's acceptable?

Sorry for the book. Bottom line can we bond as a human race and forget TV, politicians, talking memes who want to argue... And say ok, lets all wear a mask in public, gets your econ acceptable and keep deaths say, around 200k until as jk said we can test and have a reliable vaccine? Can we? I'm in!!!

2020 orange level member2016_pickem_champ.jpg

Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.

[1]
Posted: Apr 15, 2020 11:58 PM
 

Yea. We make it so, because.

2020 white level member

Here is the policy that I made for work.

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 3:54 AM
 

Work at home as much as possible. Myself and the regular office staff come to work. Fortunately, everyone has a private office. Stay in your private office as much as possible. Nobody is allowed in your private office but you. Wear a face cover if you are in a common area. Wash your hands and/or use hand sanitizer when you come or go to your private office. No clients in the office, we use zoom for client meetings if we need to present information. If you go to a jobsite, wear a face cover and practice social distancing.

I supplied surgical face/dust masks and hand sanitizer for everyone and we wipe down every day at least twice.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Re: Here is the policy that I made for work.


Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:38 AM
 

Within the context of "let's get something done", that sounds pretty thorough and well-thought-out. Congratulations on the ability to keep working.


Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 1:20 AM
 

Most people will not admit it yet but humanity only really has two options. The first is the current path we have walked down which will consist of 5-10 years of on-off lockdowns and largescale restrictions to human life. The hope would be we eventually develop a successful vaccine and disperse it through the population but this is all highly uncertain. It's possible a vaccine is 30 years out. Option 2 is the Swedish method which is herd immunity. Option 1 will mean complete and utter economic collapse throughout the developed world the likes of which have not been seen in modern times. Option 2 will mean a few million deaths (we are lucky that the true mortality rate is only like .4% according to serum antibody tests) and the resumption of normal life in a few months.

Everyone would select Option 2 if they were aware of the positives/negatives associated with each option. Sadly, it will take months and social disobedience/riots before the general public realizes we need to pursue Option 2. Let's hope it's not too late and there is still a decent world left for us when people finally realize this.


Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 2:37 AM
 

They are talking 2022 before we are secure again. Saying that the virus is mutating and a vaccine is not a cure.

So open everything back up as I’ve been saying and if you are afraid of death stay home.

I’m sure there is some way to do a slowly ease back to life as we know it.

Americans shouldn’t give up its freedom because of some Chinese virus BS that was created to do exactly what it’s done.

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Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 3:01 AM
 

We let the economy tank, we’ll see a death rate that will dwarf this virus.

2020 white level member

Where are we now in the 5 stages of grief...

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 3:28 AM
 

I think we are just now getting to the Anger phase. It's been interesting reading the posts and news and seeing how the attitudes are changing. We had the denial phase where people were comparing it to the flu, car crash deaths, etc and tons of funny memes. Now comes the anger phase, Every article on Fox's website is blaming China, CNN is blaming Trump, people are saying the lockdown is too long, etc. It will eventually get better but our lives have all changed now and we have a long hard road ahead of us, it will be miserable but the best thing to do is keep walking forward.


AND there is no guarantee of a vaccine. There's no vaccine

[4]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 AM
 

for the common cold. And guess what? Some colds are caused by coronavirus variants.

Even with the vaccine, thousands die of the flu every year and people get the flu even after having the vaccine.

Agree 100%. Putting all hopes in a vaccine is foolish.

Re-start the economy soon after this initial wave is over. Let herd immunity develop. Keep the most vulnerable safe. Take personal precautions.

It may come back in the fall. Fine. But don't overreact. Don't shutter everything. Be smart. We need smart bombs/drones, not carpet bombing. Too much collateral damage in the current approach.

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Whoa... I've had my disagreements with JK, but not much here

[4]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 8:28 AM
 

JK is pretty on target here.

We could have a vaccine late this year or early next that is ready for the largest Phase 3/3b trial ever. That said - it will still be in the experimental stages at that point... there is no guarantee that it will be safe or ready for the masses. At best it will help people understand the drug/vaccine developmental process a little better. Maybe people will better understand the risks associated with each stage of drug development (pre, 1, 2a, 2b, 3, 3b, 4).

Absolutely agree with the importance of all the things JK listed in #4

I do think the morbidity/mortality rate is high enough to justify a vaccine based off of the numbers we already have, but I understand JK's argument that it might not be.

I'd also throw in a line about the importance of testing including antibody testing... that's probably even more important than a vaccine at this point IMO.

Ken Pittman, MD

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Re: Whoa... I've had my disagreements with JK, but not much here

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:31 AM
 

Thanks Doc! I too pretty much agree with JK and many other posters on here. I think one thing going for us is that according to the experts, they think this virus will not mutate. If they are right, it seems like a viable vaccine will be not easy, but less difficult to develop and make viable for the long term (meaning not having to tweak it each year like flu vaccines. Someone mentioned cold vaccines earlier, but the problem with their development is that there are approximately 160 cold viruses and no single vaccine covers all of them. I think there is a researcher now trying to develop a vaccine that will cover 80 ....... that's progress.

Of course the other factor is getting people to take the vaccine and getting enough doses for everyone that wants it. I waited almost a year for my Shingles vaccine, although I understand that it did not have the same urgency and Covid.


Re: Whoa... I've had my disagreements with JK, but not much here

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:51 AM
 

Wait, wait, Doc.

Are you REALLY saying you want Drad to fire Brownell?

Wow, you're gonna divide this board, Doc! Say it ain't so! I want to ride the Brownell train a little bit longer.

Ah, happy, simpler good times. The old days when we had sports.


Re: Whoa... I've had my disagreements with JK, but not much here


Posted: Apr 17, 2020 9:12 AM
 

I know I'm supposed to be the smart one,
but when it comes to the art of friendship, Vinnie's a genius.

Doogie Howser, MD

2020 white level member

Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.


Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:29 AM
 

socialize medicine. It is good for everyone? I agree with you! The flu shot is a hit and miss! I bet this covid19 has been in the US since Dec and Jan. WASH YOUR HANDS and wear a mask.

Message was edited by: Sportsfan®


2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.


Posted: Apr 16, 2020 9:58 AM
 

I’m pretty sure a vaccine is the only hope for Clemson basketball


Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.


Posted: Apr 17, 2020 2:05 AM
 

Kk coot.

2020 white level member

Re: Viewing a vaccine as our only hope is foolish.


Posted: Apr 17, 2020 11:27 AM
 

I agree it should not be viewed as our only hope. Handwashing, social distancing, staying home from work, school if you are sick are important. The vaccine is important, particularly for the immunocompromised, elderly, health care workers.


You are such a


Posted: Apr 18, 2020 7:23 PM
 

Pumper!!


Jk. Thank You!

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