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Expert [1102]
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Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 3, 2012, 8:34 AM
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Reasons I thin the SEC has been dominant over the past few years. There are some great coaches like Saban, Richt, Meyer, Chizak, and Miles and money from their TV contracts but here were there major advantages.
Oversigning- Signing up to 35 players when Big Ten and ACC were not doing the same and grey shirting a lot more. This hedged bets on potential academic causalities while taking some players off the market for other schools. Some of them never event made it to campus. Also some recruits and current players were getting cut out and replaced by fresh talent if coaches thought their were better players out there which build depth for every team. I worked out with a guy that was a Strength and Conditioning coach at South Carolina and Georgia Tech and asked what the big difference was and he said depth. Carolina has legit 2 deep at every position while he felt Tech only went 1.5 deep for what its worth.
Academics. This goes hand in hand with oversigning. ACC and Big Ten Schools could not recruit the same type of players others schools could since there were higher academic standards at ACC schools. This limits the pool for the pool and eliminates some competition for recruits in the southeast region. I believe its either in the book the Blind Side or Meat Market, where its mentioned that some football players at Ole Miss read at an elementary school level.
With the SEC recently tightening up rules on oversigning, my prediction is the gap between the SEC and the other conferences will close. I will also go out and say if they want to have the Playoff be Top 4 that will be fine. I predict that within the first 5 years of the playoffs, there will be one season where the SEC is shut out. This will be due to the gap closing and greater potential greater parity that will result in no SEC teams being undefeated or only having one loss. Some of the unintended consequences of their arrogance right now.
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Heisman Winner [78990]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money- itrs not
Jun 3, 2012, 8:42 AM
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the high class fan bases thats for sure
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Varsity [201]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 3, 2012, 8:43 AM
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Keep tryin, if it makes you feel better
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 3, 2012, 8:51 AM
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which part don't you agree with? the post was pretty spot-on.
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Member [24]
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All I see is excuses, excuses, excuses...
Jun 3, 2012, 9:09 AM
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I love the academics argument. Especially when Carolina got Clowney, Clemson wanted him so badly, but then when he announced his decision all the Clemson fans began saying how we didn't want him at Clemson because he doesn't fit our academic standard of excellence. Which is BS, most ACC and SEC schools have more or less the same entrance requirements for student athletes. And get real, Clemson is no Ivy League School, and SEC schools aren't community colleges.
Oversigning is also not the reason SEC wins. Having one or two more players, especially in football, is not the difference maker. I'll agree oversigning is shady as hell and the SEC has been known for doing that in recent years, but having one more bench warmer is not putting the SEC a level above the ACC. And if the SEC couldn't get away with oversigning, they would leave a spot open for kids like Clowney, and if he didn't commit then they would just have a signing class 1 less than the maximum.
I will agree that the playoff will make it harder for not only the SEC to win, but for any dominant team to win, because no matter how good a team is, the more times a team plays the greater chance they have of getting a bad break and dropping a game they could have won.
Right now the SEC is winning because of better facilities, thus better recruiting, and better coaching. Simple as that.
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Orange Blooded [4745]
TigerPulse: 100%
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The SEC is winning due to coaching at LSU, Bama,
Jun 3, 2012, 9:43 AM
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and SCAR. Now, if you look closer, SOS and Saban has done the most to uplift the SEC. SOS at UF and SCAR, Saban at both LSU and Bama. Miles is still reaping the roll that Saban started at LSU, as prior to Saban, LSU had suffered losing seasons in 7 of their previous 9 seasons.
Arkansas does not exactly recruit well, Clemson has recruited better than Arkansas over the last 5 years, but they have "had" good coaching. We will see with the new staff this year.
Not impressed with the coaching at Ole Miss, Miss St, Vandy, UK, Tennessee for the last six years, and the current UF staff.
Auburn's coaching staff is not impressive, and w/out a bevy of JC's lead by Newton and Fairley in 2010, the 2011 version struggled. Nobody is expecting much more from them in 2012.
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Orange Immortal [65681]
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And, good coaches are attracted to those schools because
Jun 3, 2012, 11:38 AM
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they are set up to win. In addition to the very valid points made by the OP regarding oversigning and academics, those schools have fan bases and administrations that are conducive to winning big-time football.
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Game Changer [1870]
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Well said.***
Jun 3, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Varsity [104]
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Re: And, good coaches are attracted to those schools because
Jun 4, 2012, 4:18 AM
[ in reply to And, good coaches are attracted to those schools because ] |
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> they are set up to win. In addition to the very valid
> points made by the OP regarding oversigning and
> academics, those schools have fan bases and
> administrations that are conducive to winning
> big-time football.
I have no moral problems with over signing. Maybe it's unfair if the standards vary from conference to conference, but that isn't what has moved SC past Clemson these last few years. I can't believe any of you guys actually try to pull the academic argument, because outside of the Ivy league and a few others (Vandy, ND, Stanford) all the conferences pretty much use about the same standards for football players. The key is the administration. SC now has an admin that sees the benefit of having a strong ath. dept. and we are starting to reap the rewards.
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Standout [229]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 3, 2012, 9:22 AM
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Cheat at all cost to get the best players such as over signing, buying recruits, giving parents jobs, paying bills for parents. This is why we are falling behind them. The rules don't mean anything if the NCAA and ESPN won't enforce them.
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Scout Team [155]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 3, 2012, 9:30 AM
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I agree, we built our program on these morals, and now we dont even revisit them. Bring back Ford!
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Game Day Hero [4349]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 3, 2012, 9:23 AM
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Your last sentence could not be more true.
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Gridiron Giant [15809]
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Saw a national comentator talk about this the other day and
Jun 3, 2012, 9:43 AM
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he said the reason the SEC dominates in football is because of the strong offensive and defensive lines they recruit. I firmly believe he is correct. The rest of it is just excuses.
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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Especially the defensive lines.***
Jun 3, 2012, 9:51 AM
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National Champion [7944]
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Re: Especially the defensive lines.***
Jun 3, 2012, 9:57 AM
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The SEC dominates because they have a passion for football. If Clemson were in the SEC they would be 6th in attendence. Look at the number of schools in each conf who really care about football. Clemson, FSU, VA Tech are close to the SEC passion but thats about it.
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Game Changer [1992]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Our attendance would go up 5k avg for the year because
Jun 3, 2012, 10:17 AM
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Of playing bam a,UT,UGa etc, instead of duke,WF,BC etc.
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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Amen. SCAR was averaging in the mid 60's before joining the
Jun 3, 2012, 11:54 AM
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SEC in 1992. Clemson was in the mid/upper 70's in the ACC.
There are at least 5K at WB from their SEC opponents, sometimes many more than that. The only real exception is Vandy.
We can't even get FSU to bring more than 5K to Clemson, unless they are in the top 10.
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Amateur [36]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: Especially the defensive lines.***
Jun 3, 2012, 11:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Especially the defensive lines.*** ] |
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Agree completely. As boring as it can be to watch at times, good defense wins college football. This is why practically every year the MNC is a defensive SEC team solidly beating a great Big XII/Pac 12 offense, or two defensive SEC teams boring us until one wins. While our recruiting is comparable to SCAR recently, even better, it's obvious the fact that they recruit solid DL/DBs just works better than our recruiting ALL SKILL players on offense, half of which never pan out talent-wise in the first place. We tend to have one star defensive player at a time (Bowers, McDaniel, Branch, etc) rather than a solid group of guys on D. However, I'm looking forward to our young group of LBs hopefully raising our level of play this year.
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Heisman Winner [78990]
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Scout Team [176]
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Please provide a link for the academic...
Jun 3, 2012, 9:58 AM
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requirements being more stringent in the ACC versus the SEC. That is a complete fabrication and Clemson will take the same players with the same academic records as South Carolina or any other SEC school.
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Aficionado [158]
TigerPulse: 58%
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agree...academics is the same by conference, but some....
Jun 3, 2012, 10:09 AM
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..schools may differ. Mississippi has a state law that requires any athlete that has met the minimum NCAA requirement to be admitted to state schools. Otherwise SC and Clemson have both denied admissions to recruits that met the NCAA standards but not the school's....and we all know of the Clemson reject that was admitted to UNC. The Big 10's standards aren't special. Ohio State admits marginal academic recruits all the time.
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Aficionado [158]
TigerPulse: 58%
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money and facilities are the product of the support and....
Jun 3, 2012, 10:14 AM
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...success of SEC programs. the aggregate of the fan bases, facilities, and quality of the SEC programs generates money and exposure, which attracts the best recruits. Clemson shares a lot the same characteristics of SEC schools, but gets dinged when associated w/ the ACC.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Please provide a link for the academic...
Jun 3, 2012, 10:24 AM
[ in reply to Please provide a link for the academic... ] |
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it is absolutely true that Clemson will not admit some athletes that the c$$ts will take and this poster knows it!
also class attendance is an absolute @ Clemson and the c$$ts??? NONE!and no I can`t provide LINK but today is Sunday and I don`t have a link to prove that either!!!!!
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Fan [59]
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Addict [400]
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Re: Please provide a link for the academic...
Jun 3, 2012, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to Please provide a link for the academic... ] |
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they can't. I've been asking for the same thing for years. It's just a convenient excuse for losing. If the requirements were so tough, why did Bellamy fail out after one year and it's because he failed to meet NCAA minimum requirements, not Clemson's. They'll take any recruit that has a shot at meeting NCAA requirements just like most of the other ACC and SEC schools.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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We'll take any recruit with a shot at making NCAA reqs?
Jun 3, 2012, 11:50 AM
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Did we take Dwight Jones?
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Orange Blooded [4745]
TigerPulse: 100%
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True, we rejected a 5 star recruit. If Clemson University
Jun 3, 2012, 12:03 PM
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can not forecast the athlete to graduate based on their HS transcript and SAT/ACT scores, they don't get in. It is all traced back to the graduation rate % and future eligibilty requirements the NCAA instituted several years ago.
This same requirement has hit the UCONN basketball program, prohibiting them from competing in the NCAA tourney for one season due to poor BB graduation rates.
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Addict [400]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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I'm saying you were wrong in your statement***
Jun 3, 2012, 1:22 PM
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All-American [593]
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National Champion [7899]
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Re: Please provide a link for the academic...
Jun 3, 2012, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to Please provide a link for the academic... ] |
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I dont have a link but my friend applied at usc and got accepted....oh yeah forgot to mention he had a 2.0 gpa. and horrible sat and act scores.
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Connoisseur [364]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 3, 2012, 10:08 AM
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Pretty fair analysis. Both of those certainly play a factor.
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Commissioner [908]
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It's coaching, OL/DL, and a bit of luck***
Jun 3, 2012, 10:13 AM
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Fan [54]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 3, 2012, 12:14 PM
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Clemson and USC use the same sliding scale. The only SEC teams and ACC teams that use raise standards from the basic NCAA sliding scale are Vanderbilt, UGA (surprising, but they also only increased the SAT portion of the scale by a mere 10 points, so it is not much of an increase), Duke, UVA, and BC. All the rest use the NCAA's standard GPA/SAT scale for student athletes.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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The difference is desire to win. They hired Spurlid & Tanner
Jun 3, 2012, 1:29 PM
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we hired Dabo and hang onto Jack.
It's that simple!!
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Valley Protector [1447]
TigerPulse: 81%
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It's ESPN sucking the teet of the sec.They make out like
Jun 3, 2012, 1:34 PM
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the sec is pro and everybody else is amatuer,it's sickening.these kids wanna go where they will be on tv and make it famous.
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Varsity [104]
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Spurriers recruiting is no better than TB or Dabo. TB owned
Jun 3, 2012, 1:43 PM
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Spurrier, but Spurrier owns Dabo. It's coaching, not ESPN.
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All-Pro [715]
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Re: Spurriers recruiting is no better than TB or Dabo. TB owned
Jun 3, 2012, 2:01 PM
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Spurrier owned Kevin Steele. Dabo beat Spurrier before Steele got to Clemson. And will beat him now that he is gone.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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OMG stupidest thing I have ever read. We have been stomped
Jun 3, 2012, 2:29 PM
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3 in a row by USC. Who hired Napier? Who hired Steele?
TB hired O'Cain & Spence after RR left. With the logic of folks on TNET TB should still be our HC b/c it wasn't TBs fault our offense sucked, it was Spence and O'Cain.
I guess if our OL sucks again this year, year 4.5 for Dabo, that won't be Dabo's fault either since he doesn't coach the OL. Right?
Who's fault was it we quit against GT & WVu after 1 bad play?
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All-Pro [715]
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Re: OMG stupidest thing I have ever read. We have been stomped
Jun 3, 2012, 2:46 PM
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You like to post about "facts". I just told you the "facts" between Spurrier and Dabo. Now you're throwing in GT and WV?
For a long time Clemson fan,you sure bad mouth every team that takes the field.
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110%er [6938]
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Re:He can not deny that TB owned S Carolina***
Jun 3, 2012, 11:28 PM
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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Varsity [104]
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LOL! Either you got it or you don't.***
Jun 3, 2012, 2:30 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9976]
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Also very lenient with punishment for use of recreational...
Jun 3, 2012, 3:38 PM
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drugs. Article in Andersoon Independent today.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 4, 2012, 5:09 AM
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1) Money
2) Coaching
3) Recruitng (Evaluation beyond dumb ### stars)
4) QBs (see reasons 2 & 3)
5) Did I mention money?
Arguments of academics, cheating, etc are for simplintons. Ironic eh?
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Enthusiast [145]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 4, 2012, 7:15 AM
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Tgoat nailed it, except misspelling simpletons.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 4, 2012, 8:20 AM
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#### those iPads...
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National Champion [7936]
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call baloney on all of these...excuses and nothing more
Jun 4, 2012, 6:55 AM
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they are simply more committed to winning across the board and it shows
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110%er [8244]
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Re: Why SEC is so dominant, besides money
Jun 4, 2012, 7:38 AM
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NCAA that's right NCAA
when someone who makes the rules are to scared to enforce their rules on a select few, you don't have to be
great in anything if you don't have to abide by the same rules as every one you compete against
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Orange Blooded [2841]
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Re: Re: Please provide a link for the academic...
Jun 4, 2012, 7:57 AM
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I think that the academics thing does have an affect. If Robert Nkemdiche had a straight D- average and could barely write his name on the SAT you better believe schools would pull strings to get him in. He's an unbelievable talent, up there with Bowers and Clowney, both of which were not exactly Rhode's Scholars either but they qualified. I can't prove it but Clemson may be a bit more strict when it comes to three stars and marginal players. Why take a huge risk on someone who may just be a solid backup for 4 years?
It's also a character thing, Alabama and LSU and some other schools take risks on kids with questionable character because if he gets in trouble he can just get the boot and they have another very good player to fill in for that player. I'm not saying Clemson doesn't do this, Mike Bellamy had issues and we took a shot with him. This is just what I see from the outside looking in. Clemson had a handful of arrests in the past few seasons while I'm sure Ohio State, Alabama, Auburn and the like couldn't count the number of arrests.
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