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YOUR BALANCE
Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact
Tiger Boards - Clemson Football
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Replies: 40
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Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact

8

Jun 20, 2024, 2:38 PM
Reply

Clemson is ranked #55 in "Best Colleges for Veterans."

9 ACC schools are in the top 40. We're 10th in the ACC.

If that's not embarrassing enough, Cal Berkeley is #3.

As a historically huge military school, we've got to get better. Hopefully our university leadership sees this.

Source:
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/veterans

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criteria

3

Jun 20, 2024, 2:47 PM
Reply

"Schools that qualify for the Best Colleges for Veterans lists are ranked to a significant degree based on their position in the 2024 Best Colleges rankings."

Where Clemson ranks #86, and 16th in the ACC (if you include Stanford, Cal, and Notre Dame)

I guess Barker's Destination Top 20 scam was not successful.

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Re: criteria

1

Jun 20, 2024, 3:04 PM
Reply

Wonder what’s the reason for the declining rating in the past 5 years. That was Barker’s mountain to get that public rating as high as it could be. Article below is from 2018.

https://news.clemson.edu/u-s-news-ranks-clemson-among-top-25-national-public-universities-for-11th-year/

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We have dropped in the rankings a lot recently.

1
13

Jun 20, 2024, 3:57 PM
Reply

I blame the ridiculous push by our administration and board to grow enrollment. I would have preferred that we keep enrollment around 17,00-18,000. That was a good number, but too many people complained that we were “becoming an Ivy League school” and making it too hard to get into. Plus, the powers that be saw dollar signs because higher enrollment equals more revenue.

I think we will look back on this decision and consider it a huge mistake. I already do.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I remember there was a lot of whining in that era

5

Jun 20, 2024, 4:22 PM
Reply

about too many people being unable to get into Clemson. But now the floodgates have just been opened, usually for more students from northern schools. The school is substantially larger now and not clear if that's a good thing or not

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Re: I remember there was a lot of whining in that era

1

Jun 21, 2024, 12:42 AM
Reply

As a recent grad, I can assure you that it’s not a good thing. Yes, each year, the freshman class is larger than the previous, but it’s not because they’re accepting more in-state students. There’s been a reduction in in-state acceptance, which is why more in-state students are being offered bridge or rejected entirely. But not out of state. There’s been a vast increase in out of state acceptance over the last 5-6 years, especially outside of the southeast. Jimbo & Co are head over heels for out of state tuition, particularly if it’s coming from NY, NJ or PA. But anyway, they shoot for record breaking enrollment year after year and then play absolutely dumb when there’s issues upon issues like not enough housing, parking (student and employee), classroom space, etc. They’ve not the slightest idea in this world as to what might’ve led to it.

The charm is gone, sadly, and it’s not coming back anytime soon.

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Re: We have dropped in the rankings a lot recently.

1

Jun 20, 2024, 6:45 PM [ in reply to We have dropped in the rankings a lot recently. ]
Reply

I’m glad I got to go to school when we were still under 10K…

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Re: We have dropped in the rankings a lot recently.

1

Jun 21, 2024, 12:31 PM
Reply

It was 7500 when I started and 10500 when I graduated 2nd time. Was supposedly capped at 10500. No way it should have gone past 15000 in my opinion. But it’s all about the money now and not the quality of the experience. Culture change, grade inflation, you name it. Hasn’t all been good for sure.

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I blame the portal and NIL

4

Jun 20, 2024, 3:57 PM [ in reply to Re: criteria ]
Reply

Has to be the reason.

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Re: I blame the portal and NIL

2

Jun 20, 2024, 4:00 PM
Reply

well they are the reason for everything including the problens in the middle east. ;)

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Didn't he manipulate data to get there.....***

2

Jun 20, 2024, 3:17 PM [ in reply to criteria ]
Reply



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Yes - they over managed to the US News input metrics

1

Jun 20, 2024, 4:11 PM
Reply

Some would say gamed like in this article (one of many written about Clemson)

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2009/06/09/gaming-rankings

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Re: Yes - they over managed to the US News input metrics


Jun 20, 2024, 4:54 PM
Reply

you used a 2009 report...

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Re: Yes - they over managed to the US News input metrics

1

Jun 20, 2024, 4:59 PM
Reply

Yes - but you can look on the interwebs for other articles. Regardless, we peaked in 2015 at 25 with regards to public schools.

Here are some possible reasons we’ve been falling - though only slightly
https://thetigercu.com/8357/news/why-clemson-keeps-falling-in-the-u-s-news-rankings/

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Clemson is #43 in Public Colleges, not 86

2

Jun 20, 2024, 3:29 PM [ in reply to criteria ]
Reply

Go back and study closer

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good, so hopefully we can exclude Duke, Boston College, Syrexcuse, Wake,


Jun 20, 2024, 5:30 PM
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Miami, Pitt, Notre Dame, and Stanford to "move up" in the ACC rankings.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


#86 among all colleges, private included***

1

Jun 20, 2024, 3:36 PM [ in reply to criteria ]
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It's inarguable that Clemson is perceived as a better school over the past

1

Jun 20, 2024, 4:08 PM [ in reply to criteria ]
Reply

20 years, under leadership that includes Barker. There are drawbacks for sure, but reputation and rankings improved.

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What!? You mean my degree from the 80s


Jun 20, 2024, 6:12 PM [ in reply to criteria ]
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didn't increase in value?

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact

4

Jun 20, 2024, 2:48 PM
Reply

I need more information before I throw Clemson under the bus. I clicked on your link and this is a ranking of how schools use Federal Initiatives to help active military and veterans pay for their degrees. I am wondering if taking the Federal money has too many strings attached and Clemson is doing something else to accomplish the same goal.

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 21, 2024, 6:01 PM
Reply

there is your answer, kinda like not using federal dollars to expand Medicare so poor children can better access to healthcare. I imagine SC ranks in the bottom of the States that host ACC schools.

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact

4

Jun 20, 2024, 2:50 PM
Reply

Since winning the natty on 16 admission standards have went through the roof. In state kids struggle to get accepted and have to bridge in. Kinda sad as an alum I know I would not be accepted now. Priced lots of generational ticket holders out of their tickets also.

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 20, 2024, 5:16 PM
Reply

Clemson did not raise the bar...the number of high performing students that want to come to Clemson raised the bar... 91 % of South Carolina students that apply to Clemson are offered a path to Clemson including Bridge (has grown significantly), Mid year enrollment, summer enrollment, etc.

The ratio of instate to out of state (including all aspects) hovers around 65/35 ( a little lower this year. ...the goal for many years. When you get 62000+ applications, you get a high quality pool.....and Clemson has held the tuition level for around five years.

The average SAT is in the 1300 -1440 range ? ACT 30-33. 5 Year Graduation rate is 80%. 65% of the newest class ranked in the Top 10%

In 2017 there were 16.1 M college. In 2023 there were 14.5 M.

What does enrollment have to do ticket prices?

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 20, 2024, 6:48 PM
Reply

I’m glad I went when I did. I wouldn’t get in now…

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 21, 2024, 5:04 AM [ in reply to Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact ]
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How do you get 65/35 the admission website says first year class representation for 2023 is 51 percent sc residents.

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 21, 2024, 1:51 PM [ in reply to Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact ]
Reply
Capture.PNG(118.4 K)

Where exactly are you getting your numbers from? For full disclosure, mine are coming from the official Factbook, which is the official source of truth for reporting.

These are the actual enrollment numbers for each year since 2014.















































































































































2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023
Under In 11908 12392 12837 13280 13380 13606 13857 13682 13818 13755
Out 5352 5624 5762 6122 6289 6589 7011 7971 8748 9120
Total 17260 18016 18599 19402 19669 20195 20868 21653 22566 22875
Grad In 1732 1822 1932 1971 2109 2181 2262 2378 2397 2333
Out 2865 2860 2875 3014 3173 3446 3276 3310 3503 3539
Total 4597 4682 4807 4985 5282 5627 5538 5688 5900 5872
Total In 13640 14214 14769 15251 15489 15787 16119 16060 16215 16088
Out 8217 8484 8637 9136 9462 10035 10287 11281 12251 12659
Total 21857 22698 23406 24387 24951 25822 26406 27341 28466 28747


This is the percentage breakdown.














































































































































2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023
Under In 68.99% 68.78% 69.02% 68.45% 68.03% 67.37% 66.40% 63.19% 61.23% 60.13%
Out 31.01% 31.22% 30.98% 31.55% 31.97% 32.63% 33.60% 36.81% 38.77% 39.87%
Total 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Grad In 37.68% 38.91% 40.19% 39.54% 39.93% 38.76% 40.85% 41.81% 40.63% 39.73%
Out 62.32% 61.09% 59.81% 60.46% 60.07% 61.24% 59.15% 58.19% 59.37% 60.27%
Total 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Total In 62.41% 62.62% 63.10% 62.54% 62.08% 61.14% 61.04% 58.74% 56.96% 55.96%
Out 37.59% 37.38% 36.90% 37.46% 37.92% 38.86% 38.96% 41.26% 43.04% 44.04%
Total 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%


So if you look over 10 years, you are correct, that it "hovers" around 65/35 since that figure is roughly the midpoint. But that statement isn't exactly accurate. It's been consistently going down.
2014-2018, it was consistent at 69/31
2019-2020, went to 66/34
2021-now, dropped then held at 61/39

The two year period from 2019-2020 was the only period that fits with what you said. And that period is 4 years out of date. Although, I could almost let 2021 be included at 63/37.

Our In-state to Out-of-state ratio is going down, per the numbers. We are admitting more and more out of state students. If the numbers above don't tell the story for you, how about this. Here is the Year Over Year change in admissions, on the same scale as the tables above.














































































































































2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023
Under In 4.06% 3.59% 3.45% 0.75% 1.69% 1.84% -1.26% 0.99% -0.46%
Out 5.08% 2.45% 6.25% 2.73% 4.77% 6.40% 13.69% 9.75% 4.25%
Total 4.38% 3.24% 4.32% 1.38% 2.67% 3.33% 3.76% 4.22% 1.37%
Grad In 5.20% 6.04% 2.02% 7.00% 3.41% 3.71% 5.13% 0.80% -2.67%
Out -0.17% 0.52% 4.83% 5.28% 8.60% -4.93% 1.04% 5.83% 1.03%
Total 1.85% 2.67% 3.70% 5.96% 6.53% -1.58% 2.71% 3.73% -0.47%
Total In 4.21% 3.90% 3.26% 1.56% 1.92% 2.10% -0.37% 0.97% -0.78%
Out 3.25% 1.80% 5.78% 3.57% 6.06% 2.51% 9.66% 8.60% 3.33%
Total 3.85% 3.12% 4.19% 2.31% 3.49% 2.26% 3.54% 4.11% 0.99%


Since 2017, there has been a drastic shift when you look at the undergrad admits. Only two years since then have been over 1%, while two of them have been negative YoY In-State growth. On the Out-of-State side, it hit double digits in 2021 and just barely missed in 2022.
The Out-of-State increase of 4% in 2023 IS what is accounting for the overall student increase.

Now these are the Fall semester enrollment headcounts, so the new students starting in spring or fall aren't factored in. But the spring/summer new enrollees aren't going to change these numbers much, if at all.


And where are you getting 91% of South Carolina students that apply are offered a path to Clemson?
From the same Factbook data, 9569 South Carolina students applied to Clemson in 2023, 4711 were accepted, 2279 of them enrolled. 49% that applied were accepted. Per a bridge ambassador, there were about 1000 Bridge spots offered. (I found the data for that and 2023 had 1045, 2022 had 1023, 2021 had 1029, so that math all lines up).
So if you had 9569 South Carolina students apply, and 4711 were accepted, and then another 1046 were offered Bridge, that gets the total offered paths to 5757.
5757 / 9569 is 60.02%.
That is a long way from 91%. The spring and summer enrollees are not going to make up a 30% jump.

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 21, 2024, 8:44 PM
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IMG_2558.jpeg(177.1 K)



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There are almost 3,000 4 year colleges in the United States

2

Jun 20, 2024, 3:50 PM
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So 55 puts us in the top 2%. That's if you even believe something like this can be quantified.

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Its not embarrassing.***

1
1

Jun 20, 2024, 3:53 PM
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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact

1

Jun 20, 2024, 4:02 PM
Reply

I would want to understand how those are calculated. I would think we should be far better but I don't understand the criteria

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Did we at least beat Chikkn U in the rankings?***


Jun 20, 2024, 4:56 PM
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How do you keep Gamecocks out of your yard?
• Put up goal posts
What does a Gamecock grad call a Clemson Tiger grad in 2 years?
• Boss


Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 20, 2024, 4:56 PM
Reply

Meh

I respect the military, but oh well.

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact

1

Jun 20, 2024, 5:02 PM
Reply

Why is it embarrassing that Cal Berkley is #3? Cal Berkley is one of the best schools in the country.

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And you're literally the biggest idiot in the country***


Jun 20, 2024, 9:38 PM
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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact

2

Jun 20, 2024, 6:42 PM
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Is Berkeley is #3 then our military has turned more woke than I thought…

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 20, 2024, 8:56 PM
Reply

Most people if any background would take Berkley over Clemson. Yale as well....etc etc.

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact

1

Jun 20, 2024, 8:03 PM
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In no way do I believe Cal Berkeley is that much higher than us. No way

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Cal is an outstanding school.

1
1

Jun 20, 2024, 9:51 PM
Reply

Clemson is very good, but Cal is much better. Sorry but it’s true.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 20, 2024, 9:55 PM [ in reply to Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact ]
Reply

Berkeley is ahead if every school in the ACC aside from Duke.

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Theres a reason UC Berkeley is #3

1

Jun 20, 2024, 9:03 PM
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IMG_1984.jpeg(144.0 K)

… there are a BOATLOAD of military bases and facilities right in their neighborhood … All branches of the armed forces.

The attached image indicates just a small sample of the facilities in that area.

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Re: Here's a Horrible Clemson Fact


Jun 21, 2024, 10:34 AM
Reply

Sorry, but I don't understand why this is a problem...

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Replies: 40
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Tiger Boards - Clemson Football
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