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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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DJT is infinitely better for USA than Kamala - Australia is Kamalas template
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May 25, 2025, 9:10 AM
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Here on TNet, we read again and again why Trump-47 is an economic disaster, and that America can only blame itself for electing Trump instead of the Administrative State installing Kamala.
Why is Trump infinitely better than Kamala? Because Kamala had expressed her vision for addressing America’s deficit & debt by taxing unrealized capital gains on the so-called rich.
Australia is on the verge of implementing Kamala’s plan. It is outright communism, and, if carried out in the manner as per Kamala’s expressed wishes, will ruin Australia.
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Australia’s Unrealized Gains Tax Will Be A Lesson In Economic Suicide
Unfortunately, it’s very real. Beginning in July, Australians with over $3 million in their superannuation accounts will be taxed not on actual gains, but on hypothetical, unrealized ones. It’s a move that will force asset liquidations, trigger capital flight, and create a bureaucratic nightmare. The idea of taxing wealth that doesn’t actually exist is not just dangerous—it’s authoritarian.
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Paw Master [17320]
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The left's lust for your cash will never end. Making their friends rich in the
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May 25, 2025, 9:11 AM
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name of "compassion".
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Clemson Icon [27222]
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Re: DJT is infinitely better for USA than Kamala - Australia is Kamalas template
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May 25, 2025, 9:16 AM
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Well, the Repubs had a primary and they gave us a dud. Kamala would have never made it out of the primary. I think she would have done a better job than Trump, but we will never know and it doesn't matter. Trump is there now and so far he has sucked.
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Ring of Honor [22354]
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Trumps authoritarian tactics against Apple, Walmart, Amazon are of no concern?
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May 25, 2025, 9:31 AM
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Not to mention Harvard?
Authoritarian tactics in the country just north of the Gulf of Mexico are of more concern.
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Clemson Icon [27222]
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Re: Trumps authoritarian tactics against Apple, Walmart, Amazon are of no concern?
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May 25, 2025, 9:36 AM
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I don't recognize that gulf area you mention there. Where is that area you refer to?
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Ring of Honor [22354]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108815]
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You can buy a new car in Australia for $12k.
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May 25, 2025, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Trumps authoritarian tactics against Apple, Walmart, Amazon are of no concern? ] |
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You can buy a new Toyota truck in Japan for $15k.
You can get a bypass surgery in Australia for free, or if you pay for it or have private insurance it costs half as much as in the US in a better hospital.
Amazes me how many Republicans have no problem taxing the unrealized gains on their property.
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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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Re: You can buy a new car in Australia for $12k.
May 25, 2025, 12:55 PM
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Nice job in justifying a tax on unrealized capital gains. Comparing the right now to what would happen shortly after the tax in unrealized capital gains takes place.
Moving on to the topic at hand: Guess what happens to people who have the majority of their >$3M net worth in illiquid assets (401-K, IRA, property comes to mind)?
Please, share your thoughts.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108815]
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Personally, I'd raise capital gains to equal income.
May 25, 2025, 5:04 PM
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But you can tax it yearly at an assessed value. Hasn't hurt my house investment. It's more than doubled in 12 years.
It won't impact the markets any more than it impacts real estate. Many a republican governor, with republican state legislatures (WINK) have no problem taxing unrealized capital gains on your house. No different with stock. Or shouldn't be. Again, I'd assume tax it at the same rate as income at the point of sale.
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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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Re: Personally, I'd raise capital gains to equal income.
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May 25, 2025, 6:46 PM
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Your house hasn’t been hurt because there is no tax in unrealized capital gains.
Property tax is nothing like a capital gains tax for highly appreciated illiquid capital gains taxes. As with Woodrow Wilson’s tax plans, they start out small and imply that nothing will change. Then, things change and the ‘taxation creep’ train starts chugging down the track.
Citizens have much more influence on local politicians than they do in national candidates. If a municipality gets over its skis with property taxes, the relatively small percentage of voters who participate in municipal elections can make a big difference in the electoral outcome of a local politicians than they. That keeps a brake in excessive taxation at the local level. Citizen influence at the national level, particularly when upper middle class voters (those who are most likely to have a respectable amount of unrealized capital gains) have their votes neutralized (or overwhelmed) by voters who have no unrealized capital gains gains to worry about.
As if the above is not enough, do you see no problem that the federal govt, with a new tax on unrealized capital gains, is without serious risk? Why not add a World economic Forum tax on unrealized capital gains taxes while we’re piling on new taxes.
Thanks to Kamala not getting to the WH, you nor I need to worry about it.
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Ultimate Tiger [35110]
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Property tax isn't a cap gains tax because it's not based on.
May 25, 2025, 6:59 PM
[ in reply to Personally, I'd raise capital gains to equal income. ] |
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the gains, but on the value (ad valorem). You can buy a house and it drop in value and you're still paying taxes.
I don't think that's the same as a tax on unrealized gains. To make it the same, it'd have to be based on the current value, which certainly includes unrealized gains.
But I'm not advocating for that. And the feds don't have the ability to directly tax property...at least not in the way we think about it.
I don't think tax on unrealized gains would be constitutional based on 16th amendment being based on income...and unrealized gains aren't income.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108815]
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No, but you could recoup the lost yearly tax on unrealized gains
May 25, 2025, 7:55 PM
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by taxing capital gains at the point of sale same as income.
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Ultimate Tiger [35110]
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So when you sell with a loss, they'll add money at...
May 25, 2025, 8:11 PM
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Point of sale? 
I think you get my point...you have to maintain a way to meet out losses too.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108815]
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A loss you pay no capital gains.
May 25, 2025, 9:04 PM
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As there would be nothing to tax, same as now, for houses and stock.
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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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Re: A loss you pay no capital gains.
May 25, 2025, 9:43 PM
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Year 1: Pay tax of 10% on unrealized capital gains based on illiquid asset valued at $1000 and with unrealized gain of $500. Tax owed is $50.
Year 2: Illiquid asset market value crashes; it now has a market value of $400 - I.e., an unrealized capital loss of $100. Does the government cough up the $50 in taxes that was collected in Year 1?
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What happens when the owner of the illiquid asset lacks the available liquid assets to pay the Year 1 tax of $50? Get a loan (with the illiquid asset being the collateral)?
What happens when the market value of the illiquid asset crashes in Year 2? The lender calls in his loan used to pay Year 1 taxes. Sell8ng the illiquid asset at distressed price looks like the logical option.
xxxxxxxxx
There are other nightmare scenarios that would be in play with a tax on unrealized gains. This thing would cascad3 into an economic catastrophe in which the government ends up owning huge new tracts of land. Communism lite that keeps on a path to communism heavy.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108815]
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You can still buy reasonably-priced cars all over the world
May 26, 2025, 9:35 AM
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In countries with "free" markets.
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Ultimate Tiger [35110]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108815]
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Exactly.
May 26, 2025, 10:14 AM
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You lose, you don't pay as you had no "gain".
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Ultimate Tiger [35110]
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But in cap gains taxes you get to offset your gains...
May 26, 2025, 8:25 PM
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By your losses...there is no vehicle to do that if you pay cap gains taxes at the time of sale.
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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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Re: No, you don't pay and not pay....
May 26, 2025, 1:25 PM
[ in reply to No, you don't pay and not pay.... ] |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYe8cGy9TeI
Trying this again.
Example of an illiquid asset in which large unrealized capital gains are often the case: Farm land near a growing suburban community.
Such an asset may have been acquired years ago at very cheap per-acre price. Major appreciation of said land = large unrealized capital gains.
Landowners with valuable market value land are not necessarily rich in liquid assets. A reasonable theoretical case is a person with liquid assets of $4M and illiquid assets (I.e., land) that has a market value of $31M … as if end of Year 1 … and an unrealized capital gains burden of $30M.
Hypothetical tax rate for unrealized capital gains is 20%
Year 1: Land owner owes $6M in taxes. He has liquid assets of $4M. So, he borrows money to pay the $2M in taxes that can’t be covered by selling his $4M in liquid assets. (We are assuming here that his liquid assets have no unrealized capital gains associated with them; otherwise he’s owe additional taxes on them.)
Year 2: There is a collapse in the real 3state market. The man’s land now has a market value of $21M. Based on zeroing out the cost basis for his land from the Year 1 valuation of $31M, as of end of Year 2 he has an unrealized capital loss of $10M.
(?). Does he get a refund from the government in the amount of $2M to compensate him?
Let’s see if you or Tiggity® understand things better now.
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Ultimate Tiger [35110]
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You're arguing against something I'm not arguing FOR***
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May 26, 2025, 8:27 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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Apologies to flow440
May 26, 2025, 8:56 PM
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I see now.
I didn’t catch the full gist of your response to Tiggity.
Best regards.
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TigerNet Elite [71213]
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Its fair market value (supposedly)
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May 26, 2025, 7:04 PM
[ in reply to Property tax isn't a cap gains tax because it's not based on. ] |
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so if my house goes down, so does everyone else. So that example is hog wash.
I have a huge issue with death taxes, tax rates on deceased ROTH IRA…the list goes on and on. You work your ### off and then get texted 2-4 times over.
The poors and non motivated individuals will always want more, but it shouldn’t come from me.
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Legend [6915]
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Not so fast
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May 26, 2025, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to You can buy a new car in Australia for $12k. ] |
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Even Google says:
In Japan, the price of a new car can vary significantly based on the make, model, and features, but generally ranges from ¥1,500,000 to ¥4,000,000 (approximately $10,000 to $25,000). Luxury models can exceed ¥10,000,000 (around $90,000)
See attached for a Toyota dealer in Sydney. That'd be $65,000 USD. Pretty darn close to the US price.
So sad. You people cannot get out of the echo chamber.
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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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Re: Not so fast
May 26, 2025, 3:49 PM
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The pretend non-partisans have shown, since Trump-47 went after the NGOs, that nothing else matters than preserving (or restoring) their cushy NGO based careers & lifestyles.
Ditto for federal employees, public school teachers, and university professors & administrators. They’ll say anything in hopes of broadening public appeal to unwittingly support their (selfish) primary political agenda.
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Orange Elite [5187]
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Do you find education and the act of helping others to be noble pursuits?
May 26, 2025, 4:22 PM
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"Cushy NGO based careers and lifestyles...."
Do you know many people who work for nonprofits or are in the education sector?
Do you see them living in multimillion dollar mansions, driving fancy sports cars, vacationing to exotic islands? Or are you more likely to see them sacrificing their own time and energy to help others?
Do you really think that every single person working in these industries is out to broaden their own public appeal? You think that's why people go into teaching? Because of the insane amount of social respect and salary earnings that they receive? lol
I think you're full of ####. And I think this statement from you, "They’ll say anything in hopes of broadening public appeal to unwittingly support their (selfish) primary political agenda," more accurately describes your dear lord and savior Donald "buy my sneakers and steaks" Trump than anyone else in the news today.
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National Champion [7767]
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Re: Do you find education and the act of helping others to be noble pursuits?
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May 26, 2025, 4:53 PM
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If you really think all these NGO's are spending most of their money out there doing God's work while the people in charge live the lives of a monk you're the one that's full of ####. Bet you can't even explain why all these NGO's are getting almost all of their budgets from tbe govt since, you know, they're NON GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS. Why on Earth do a bunch of supposedly pure as the driven snow organizations get all their money from the government, which then requires pretty much zero oversight or accountability from them about how they actually spend the money, whether they have any actual results of said spending, etc. If they were so gosh darn great at doing all these amazing things one would think they could raise money on their own instead of grifting it from taxpayers and then doing whatever the #### they want with it. But I bet you lack the mental capacity or inquisitiveness to ever ponder such questions. The bad orange man is taking away their payday and you're mad about it because somebody told you to be. Crawl back under your rock moron.
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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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Re: Do you find education and the act of helping others to be noble pursuits?
May 26, 2025, 8:11 PM
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Not only that, but people who have decent educations but don’t want to work really hard, and whose needs for job security far outweigh a desire to be true upper-middle class of ‘rich’ (I.e., annual income per person of >$250K), there is nothing like a NGO job that rewards political activists or a federal government job.
As for public school teachers, they cannot duplicate the combination of a job that (these days) pays well enough to be fully self-sufficient economically without needing to have a second comparable income in the household to make it work), unusually long vacations built into the job (relative to other comparably compensated jobs in the private sector), and offers job protecti9n via a de facto union (teachers union).
University professors have a similar type of life than public school teachers, albeit enjoying higher pay but having less job security ( except for tenured professors). ‘Earning’ grant money is a big deal for their well-being + job security; corrupt government agencies spread our tax money around via ‘experiments’ that are sure to confirm what the agency grant provider wanted to have confirmed.
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For each of the above, there is virtually no hope of finding a non-NGO private sector job that would provide the same set of high priority components. Thus, these well paid group of people will fight like crazy, saying ANYTHING to fool non-special interest citizens into supporting them in their job security agenda.
xxxxxxxx
On this very thread, you read the responses which, incredibly, defend the policy of taxes on unrealized capital gains DESPITE several of them knowing that such a policy would result in a loss of efficiently used non-liquid assets and an increase in the non-liquid asset ownership of government crony capitalistic private owners or outright government control of illiquid assets; both scenarios representing a loss of efficiency as far as asset utilization.
They know bette4, but cite arguments that they, themselves, don’t really believe because a Trump hating politician spoke glowingly of theb’tax the unrealized capital gains’ policy proposal.
xxxxxxxxx
Lying is one of the prices that they will pay as l9ng as their lying helps to defend Trump’s opponents.
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Orange Elite [5187]
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So you're upset because of the lack of business ethics here?
May 27, 2025, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: Do you find education and the act of helping others to be noble pursuits? ] |
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Is that what makes you believe that all NGOs are evil, corrupt, and in it for the money?
You don't think there are any NGOs out there who need financial support to deliver on their missions?
Is there any humanitarian aid that you deem as worthwhile? Or should it all be put down?
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Orange Phenom [14354]
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Wrong once again
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May 25, 2025, 10:22 AM
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Let’s start with the facts that you got wrong:
The proposed tax in Australia (not yet in effect) would tax unrealized gains on accounts over $3M. The conversion rate between US and AUS dollars is ~1.5 so that would be US accounts over $2M. Harris’ plan was for accounts over $100M. So the majority of US retirement accounts would be subject to tax under the AUS plan and less than 1% of accounts would be subject to tax under Harris’ plan. In no universe are those two plans comparable, but as is the usual you MAGA idiots don’t understand or care about nuance.
Now I concede that you are 100% correct either plan is idiotic and would result in economic chaos. The huge difference is it would have never passed the US congress and been signed into law; and this is the point that makes Donny’s reign of error so destructive. The US congress is a collection of neutered dogs that lack the testicular fortitude to quash Donny’s idiotic ideas and downright fraud. The MAGA criminals in congress would have never allowed any of Harris’ plans to pass, good or bad, and all we woulda had with her in office is gridlock and status quo.
So bottom line our choice in 2024 was between one idiot with bad ideas that never would have been enacted, or an idiot with bad ideas who is worshipped by the RINOs in congress and has no guardrails in place to protect the American people from his incompetence.
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National Champion [7767]
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Re: Wrong once again
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May 25, 2025, 11:03 AM
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That was also how they got the first federal income tax passed. Pretended only the super wealthy would ever have to pay it. If you think the left would have stayed happy with a floor of 100 million you're a naive fool who knows nothing about history, the left or how govt works.
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TigerNet Icon [153024]
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Yeah, totally.
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May 25, 2025, 11:25 AM
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We should just go back to that glorious, gilded time when tariffs covered 100% of federal revenue, which was way better, because tariffs don't cost US citizens anything. That tab is picked up by other countries.
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Orange Phenom [14354]
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Cool story bro thanks for the alternative history lesson
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May 25, 2025, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wrong once again ] |
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you comparing Harris to Woodrow Wilson? I don’t see it but again I don’t live in the fantasy world that you MAGA idiots live in. If you really understood history, or how the government works, like you seem to think you do you’d know the income tax required a constitutional amendment; so, your orange messiah can’t get rid of it like he has lied to you and said he can.
Bottom line; what you don’t understand is that Harris and the Dems wouldn’t have enough political horsepower to get a resolution calling puppies cute passed by this RINO congress; so your manufactured fear would have never come to fruition. This is why the Trump administration isn’t the glorious win you think it is. He’s gonna continue to do the worst job in American history and continue to erode the voting base for his MAGA worshipping Congress. Donald Trump is gonna be the reason that the Dems regain full control of the legislative branch by the time there is another general election.
PS i love it when the dumbest people in the room try to tell other people how little they "get it". Thanks for the laugh
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Legend [6915]
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Please keep telling yourself and the echo chamber
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May 26, 2025, 3:27 PM
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that Democrats will retake the house or senate. That is a good message to send around so the democrat's messaging remains constant between now and then.
Hint: it ain't a winning message.
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Clemson Icon [27222]
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Re: Please keep telling yourself and the echo chamber
May 26, 2025, 5:25 PM
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This next midterm election will tell both parties where they stand with the public. I have no idea what will happen, but it will be interesting.
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Game Changer [2022]
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You dont seem to grasp the meaning of the word
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May 25, 2025, 6:33 PM
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Communism.
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Clemson Icon [27222]
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Re: You dont seem to grasp the meaning of the word
May 25, 2025, 7:27 PM
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He is lost and spiraling. It's fascinating to watch.
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Ring of Honor [22140]
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I just enjoy that they're still using the "commie" playbook....
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May 26, 2025, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to You dont seem to grasp the meaning of the word ] |
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It's old news and doesn't fit into reality. Get with the times...we are a corporatocracy.
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Clemson Conqueror [11627]
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Re: You dont seem to grasp the meaning of the word
May 26, 2025, 8:18 PM
[ in reply to You dont seem to grasp the meaning of the word ] |
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Communism is the government’s seizure, by any number of approaches, of private property.
It is a communistic tactic to charge exorbitant new taxes on a private citizen so that they cannot pay those taxes; the government seizes that property. They will probably buy the property, subtract the taxes owed, and then Pat the private citizen the balance.
Government gets the land; private citizen gets a lower amount of money than he would have gotten if he had sold the land by himself (at his own pace, and in parcels that would maximize his overall proceeds).
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Clemson Icon [27222]
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Re: You dont seem to grasp the meaning of the word
May 26, 2025, 8:59 PM
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I missed the part as to why you are bringing eminent domain into the conversation, which happens no matter who is in charge. Where are you attempting to go with this?
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