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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Is geography an issue for our program?
Jan 27, 2014, 2:17 PM
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I notice that the teams with the most history and best traditions are the teams who put butts in the seats. A team like UNC is in a MUCH more heavily populated area, and many UNC grads live within a short drive of campus (and can therefore come to many home games). It seems like many of our alumni live a couple hours away or more, and Clemson is not as heavily populated. Could that be the biggest issue with the program? I know we haven't recruited that well, but have we not recruited that well because we have fewer fans and therefore less tradition?
Is there an ACC school out there that is in a similar geographical situation to us that has had sustained success?
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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It is for Carolina
Jan 27, 2014, 2:21 PM
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The geography professor in Chapel Hill checks attendance. MAJOR problem!!!
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Walk-On [144]
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Wouldn't it apply to football too?***
Jan 27, 2014, 2:24 PM
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110%er [5307]
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There is usually a noticable difference b/t Tues & Sat night***
Jan 27, 2014, 2:26 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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No, totally different
Jan 27, 2014, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to Wouldn't it apply to football too?*** ] |
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Football is 6 or 7 Saturday afternoons a year. Basketball is twice a week usually on Tuesday or Thursday nights.
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CU Medallion [51559]
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Look at the attendance for UNC football.
Jan 27, 2014, 2:31 PM
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People are gonna show up if the product is worth it.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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The thing is
Jan 27, 2014, 2:33 PM
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I've seen Death Valley pretty full even when we've had marginal teams. UNC doesn't care about football.
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All-In [28802]
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No; our program just hasn't been that good
Jan 27, 2014, 2:25 PM
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There's no other explanation. When we're playing well, Littlejohn is actually pretty full. When we're not playing well, we don't have the reserve of fans that will just show up to see one of our crappy teams play (like they would at UNC, UK, Duke, or Kansas).
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Then why don't we keep Littlejohn for the foreseeable future
Jan 27, 2014, 2:35 PM
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And spend that money on a top tier coach. Lock him and his staff up long term and let them build us a contender? $4 mill a year for a staff is pennies on the dollar versus a full scale renovation, and it sounds like that's what we need to be successful. If we get a coach that produces top 25 teams year after year, then the money will be there for a renovation down the road anyway.
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Then why don't we keep Littlejohn for the foreseeable future
Jan 27, 2014, 2:38 PM
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I think we are going to have to build better facilities no matter who the coach is. Our basketball facilities just aren't good. Have you ever seen the court in LJ that the team uses for warming up? I've seen rec gyms with better courts. The wall looks like it is about 2 feet behind the basket. I think if we are going to get better recruits in basketball, we are going to have to get flashier, more attractive, facilities
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110%er [5307]
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I know some people weren't raised right, but
Jan 27, 2014, 2:25 PM
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the populations of:
Oconee-74,273
Pickens-119,224
Anderson- 188,458
Greenville- 467,605
Not to mention, Hart, Elberton, Rabun in GA and
Jackson in NC
Are all within an hour from Clemson. IMO if we were a 25 team consistently, the stands would stay full. However, with the product that is on the court and the economic situation of our country/region people choose that they have better things to do with their time and $. Ironically, with the building of a new facility, it needs to be much larger 15-17k seats to attract other events.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Is geography an issue for our program?
Jan 27, 2014, 2:26 PM
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I think geography is a big deal for Basketball. It is an urban sport already so that has an effect on recruiting. Combine that with the home court advantage of teams within cities for mid week games. Football is easy to travel for but it is difficult for fans to turn a 2 hour game into a full weekend.
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Is geography an issue for our program?
Jan 27, 2014, 2:32 PM
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I think our location definitely doesn't help our basketball program. I doubt many young basketball players dream of playing basketball in a relatively small, rural town. I think other factors hurt us way more than geography, but it definitely doesn't help us.
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CU Guru [1703]
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Re: Is geography an issue for our program?
Jan 27, 2014, 2:40 PM
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I think it has a lot to do with tradition. Clemson has really little or no tradition in basketball. The state of Kansas sucks and so do Kentucky but look at those programs. Kids are gonna go with winners regardless of geography thats how i see it. But you are right geography dont help the clemson basketball program
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Is geography an issue for our program?
Jan 27, 2014, 2:42 PM
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I agree completely. I think tradition is the number 1 thing going against us in recruiting. We just don't have much of anything to brag about over our entire history of basketball.
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Legend [17816]
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Geography, Tradition, Facilities are against us
Jan 27, 2014, 2:46 PM
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One of those three we can change in a few years with some $$$
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Is geography an issue for our program?
Jan 27, 2014, 3:00 PM
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I think it's a mix of priorities & product.
Our priority is football, not basketball. I follow Clemson football & recruiting 12 months a year, but can't name a single player on our hoops team. I know that's probably not indicative of all of our fans, but I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of alumni fall into this camp. In part this is because we are a football school, but also because...
...with a few exceptions, the product on the court in all of college basketball is pretty bad. The NBA is a star-studded league with plenty of reasons to watch, but anyone worth their salt in college basketball is gone after one year. This prevents non-elite programs from gaining much steam because it's not really worth the investment emotionally or financially. Programs like Kentucky or Kansas, North Carolina & Duke have always been bananas about college basketball and will consistently field elite squads and attract elite players, even if they're one-and-done.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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There are tons of UNC fans throughout the state
Jan 27, 2014, 3:02 PM
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but they benefit from being a national brand as well. I know a lot of people who aren't affiliated with any college that pull for FSU in football and UNC in basketball. For the record, I hate those people.
When you establish a national brand like that, money and recruiting are never difficult.
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110%er [5977]
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No!!!!!!! Clemson fans don't care about basketball unless
Jan 27, 2014, 3:20 PM
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we are losing then they have something to complain about when football isn't being played................ We have over 20K student grad and undergrad LJ seats 10K.................... People keep saying when we win we will support the program well that isn't really true........... OP won more games in the ACC than any other program that Duke and Carolina he took us to only our second ACC title game.............. He took us to three straight NCAA berths...............
OP left Dayton a program that is much better than Clemson................ More support........... And far better facilities.................... Most fans would disagree but just go take a look it's not even close............... He got Clemson back to where it was before Rick Barnes left.............. And we wouldn't support him.............. He tried and tried to get the students to support the program........... He took the team to the fans for Mid Night Madness because the fans wouldn't come to LJ............ They player on college street............ Still no fan support....... Oh yeah for Duke and Carolina but what about South Carolina no thousands of empty seats............ Same for several ACC games and for non-league games in late Nov. and Dec..... you would be lucky to catch 5K at the game more like 3.5K ...................... This was the same under Rick Barnes...............
Clemson fans are upset because we get blown out by UNC............. They are today but the game will be forgotten once baseball starts................
I am willing to bet if you polled the fans leaving LJ less than 10% could tell you the name of one of the two Clemson signee's for next season............... Did you think you would have that at UNC............ No over half could tell all of theirs and who they beat for them and who they are waiting on to sign.................. They have passion for their team and everyone knows it the coach, the players, the students, the administration.............. The recruits............. NO one feels that at Clemson nor have they ever..............
Clemson has the basketball team they deserve!!!!! This team is reflective of the amount of passion the clemson puts into the program.............. Please don't tell me about the two or three times students camped out for tickets under Barns.............. I was season ticket holder under Barns, LS, and OP........ The fan support for all 16 home games under all of them was bad overall......
So fire Brad Brownell ......... Nothing will change until clemson changes.............
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110%er [5298]
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Re: No!!!!!!! Clemson fans don't care about basketball unless
Jan 27, 2014, 3:22 PM
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Is there any way you can make this post......bigger?
(that's what she said)
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Whoah... TL; didn't attempt to read
Jan 27, 2014, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to No!!!!!!! Clemson fans don't care about basketball unless ] |
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Odd spacing and paragraph breaks, along with too many ellipses also contributed to not reading.
It appears to be either the ramblings of a crazy person or that of a PO'd Clemson fan. Not sure if there's a difference anyway.
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110%er [7390]
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Re: Whoah... TL; didn't attempt to read
Jan 27, 2014, 3:28 PM
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What he said! I didn't read it since, well, GWP responded to it so I naturally read that first. hth.
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110%er [5977]
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A little of both. I am just
Jan 27, 2014, 3:40 PM
[ in reply to Whoah... TL; didn't attempt to read ] |
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tired of the same old stuff. Fans don't go to the games and when we lose they complain and want to fire the coach. Clemson is the problem not the coach.
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Oculus Spirit [90821]
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FB is my passion but have tuned in big time to BB but now I
Jan 27, 2014, 6:23 PM
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couldn't care less IF CU has basketball or not. Back in 1979 I could hardly work my job when Tiger BB advanced to Sweet 8 but lost to UCLA..and I was so proud when TiGER Basket Ball beat #1 UNC & #1 Duke at home (1979)..or showed up well in a tournament..or advanced in the NCAA or NIT.
But, for me it's Clemson Football 80% overall, then BB & Base Base 10% each..with Golf bringing me some smiles too once in awhile.
GoTiGERS!
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CU Medallion [52724]
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Not really an issue
Jan 27, 2014, 6:28 PM
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When we've had good teams, we've filled LJ. Before the fire marshals outlawed it, we had fans sitting on the steps in the aisles. Like one of the posters above said, you give the fans a good product, they will show up.
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Junkie [569]
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My geography
Jan 27, 2014, 8:16 PM
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Doesn't seem to be an issue for your mom. So, there's that.
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