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Game Changer [2017]
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Time to Stop Complaining
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Nov 22, 2024, 1:09 AM
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…about Dabo’s salary. He barely makes more than Michigans pre-freshman quarterback.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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That's bogus.
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Nov 22, 2024, 8:25 AM
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He is reportedly getting $10 million for four years. That's 2.5 per year.
Dabo gets 11.5 million per year.
11.5 is not equal to 2.5.
Maths are hard, but not that hard.
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All-TigerNet [5868]
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Dabo got a lot more bills and repsonsibilies than that.....
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Nov 22, 2024, 9:17 AM
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college kid too
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Non sequotur.
Nov 22, 2024, 10:33 AM
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It doesn't change the false premise.
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Ultimate Tiger [33855]
TigerPulse: 100%
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u tell me mr DA of Greenville county***
Nov 22, 2024, 12:08 PM
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I am not an attorney nor do I claim to be one.
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Nov 22, 2024, 12:12 PM
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I am able to do my research on the topic and factually rebut false claims and bogus information.
A lot of TNetters seem to have an inferiority complex and don't think we can do anything about it.
If anyone has one, it's self inflicted and there is a pathway to fix it.
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Ultimate Tiger [33855]
TigerPulse: 100%
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only the DA of Greenville county uses the phrase
Nov 25, 2024, 10:43 AM
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"Non sequotur"
this is known Chris
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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While you use the actual logical fallacy the term describes.
Nov 25, 2024, 11:09 AM
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Congratulations.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Campus Hero [13788]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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It takes a DA to think
Nov 25, 2024, 11:48 AM
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...that Bluffton is in Greenville County.
What's next for you, c claiming that Clemson is in Myrtle Beach?
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Campus Hero [13788]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: It takes a DA to think
Nov 25, 2024, 12:20 PM
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Yep, DA it is! Conclusion correct!
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Paw Warrior [4970]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Orange Elite [5297]
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Nuance is always lost on you. Bless.
Nov 25, 2024, 10:45 AM
[ in reply to That's bogus. ] |
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110%er [4090]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I ummm think he was joking.
Nov 25, 2024, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to That's bogus. ] |
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But good on the math! Congrats!
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Ring of Honor [22809]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: That's bogus.
Nov 25, 2024, 11:20 AM
[ in reply to That's bogus. ] |
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Turn your sarcasm detector on; it doesn't seem to be working 
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Clemson Icon [27580]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Time to Stop Complaining
Nov 22, 2024, 8:27 AM
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People are jealous.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Not at all.
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Nov 22, 2024, 8:35 AM
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People understand that we're getting diminishing returns on the ROI.
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CU Medallion [18526]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Not at all.
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Nov 22, 2024, 9:04 AM
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There are exactly three active coaches to have won a national championship: Mack Brown, Kirby Smart, and Dabo Swinney. Smart and Swinney have won the same number - two. Smart has been in half as many playoffs. Now take a list at all the other coaches making 9+ million that are offering better returns? Mike Norfolk, maybe? Mark Stoops? Elijah Drinkwitz? Brian Kelly? You throw his salary out with no context to what others are getting paid. There an absolute dogsh*t coaches making nearly as much as Dabo. Stop being an idiot.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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You use those non sequiturs and ad hominems?
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Nov 22, 2024, 9:13 AM
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That doesn't make me an idiot.
This is about Dabo and Clemson's ROI, and nothing else. Your attempt to muddy the waters is debunked.
Your childish name calling? If you want to see the pejorative you used, stare into a mirror.
Take a Logic 101 class, then get back to me.
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Ring of Honor [21125]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Talk about childish...
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Nov 22, 2024, 10:19 AM
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..."Still mad because Lincoln freed your slaves?" This is the kind of stuff you resort to.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Questioning a love for exploitation is as adult as it gets.
Sep 27, 2022, 3:17 PM
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Your attempt to alter reality is an epic fail.
Your butthurt doesn't change that a whit?
You sound like the topic of an old southern saying "Guilty dog barks first".
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Sounds defensive.
Nov 22, 2024, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to Talk about childish... ] |
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Apparently it struck a nerve with you.
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CU Medallion [18526]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: You use those non sequiturs and ad hominems?
Nov 22, 2024, 7:18 PM
[ in reply to You use those non sequiturs and ad hominems? ] |
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When I refute your entire premise with fact, which I did, then it isn’t an ad hominem. And nothing about Dabo’s accomplishments nor ranking in salary is a non sequitor to your complaints about Dabo’s salary. Using big words when you clearly don’t know what they mean doesn’t make you look smart except to the troglodytes on this board who also don’t know what they mean.
The ROI is already baked in. His accomplishments have paid off many times over already for Clemson. You are not making a sophisticated argument. I understand you are trying to paint yourself as objective but you’re just a petulant baby.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Facts used as jon sequiturs are not pertinent.
Nov 22, 2024, 7:46 PM
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Dabo and his methods are one of a kind.
Again, bringing anyone else into the conversation is weak deflection.
Try to stay on topic.
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CU Medallion [18526]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Facts used as jon sequiturs are not pertinent.
Nov 23, 2024, 12:51 PM
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No. Introducing facts pertinent to Dabo is not a non sequitor. You truly don’t understand the term if you believe so. The dude using those comments as a launching point into why Kirby is such a better coach is a non-sequitor. You’re dismissing them as non-sequitora because you are otherwise unable to reconcile them with your position.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Wrong again.
Nov 22, 2024, 7:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: You use those non sequiturs and ad hominems? ] |
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The ROI is year to year. The oven burned that old ROI when it was overbaked starting in 2019.
Clemson no longer wins because of Dabo.
Clemson sometimes wins despite him or because of inferior competition.
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CU Medallion [18526]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Wrong again.
Nov 23, 2024, 1:02 PM
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That’s not how college football coaching contracts work (nor any high risk reward investment for that matter). He has a contract based on a body of work. Dabo’s compensation is not outlandishly disproportionate to most coaches in the Top 25. Those that are will soon be receiving new contracts or moving to new programs. His salary is irrelevant to a discussion of what’s good for Clemson. Any coach who might do as well or better would quickly demand equal pay. And a quick perusal of the top 20 paid coaches shows that the overwhelming majority can’t even match his level of success over the last 4 years.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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He has a contract based on his performance
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Nov 25, 2024, 11:15 AM
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That performance is diminishing.
His body of work is based on an obsolete system.
His body of work is the equivalent of the best horsedrawn buggy maker in 1908 when Henry Ford introduced the Model T.
The past 5 years has been a seismic paradigm shift and Dabo hasn't shifted with it.
No business CEO survives that kind of slippage of ROI and loud refusal to adapt for very long.
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CU Medallion [18526]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: He has a contract based on his performance
Nov 27, 2022, 3:31 PM
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He has a contract. You’re acting like he’s under an annual renewal and everyone is just blindly letting it roll. His buyout currently is $60 million. Your concept of evaluating his ROI is grossly incorrect. It isn’t a decision of whether $11.5m is a good ROI. The question is whether there is a Coach “X” likely to accept an offer from Clemson (precisely why my earlier point about who is paid what and their relative succes was relevant) that would generate an increase in ROI so great that it would offset roughly $110 million versus $57.5 if Dabo stayed on, This is not a sunk cost fallacy. Dabo is still running a Top 25 program. The odds that we return to Tommy Bowden results are far greater than finding an improvement.
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Tiger Titan [50934]
TigerPulse: 79%
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A national championship history has little to do with it.
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Nov 22, 2024, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not at all. ] |
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Mack Brown makes $5 million a year, less than half of what Dabo makes. If that magically makes a coach worthy of a huge contract in perpetuity, then UNC is getting a great deal.
Of course, that's not true, and UNC isn't getting a great deal.
Clemson isn't getting a great deal either. Dabo's last national championship was 7 years ago. That's a long time in college football years. We have seen a lot of changes since then, including changes to the transfer rules as well as the implementation of NIL.
In this new era of college football, Dabo hasn't come close to winning a national championship. In fact, he hasn't even finished in the top 10.
The only coach who makes more than Dabo is Kirby Smart, at $13 million a year. In contrast to Dabo, Kirby has two two national championships recently (2021 and 2022), and he has shown that he is capable of winning at a high level in this current era of college football. Also in contrast to Dabo, Kirby hasn't seen his success on the field or in recruiting suffer in recent years.
If we are content winning 8-10 games a year, we can do it for less than the $11 million a year we pay Dabo.
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Ultimate Tiger [35588]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: A national championship history has little to do with it.
Nov 22, 2024, 2:53 PM
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Your tendency to exaggerate doesn’t really help you make your points, but evidently you believe it must bolster your agenda because you just keep doing it.
Clemson won its last football national championship on January 7, 2019. Not sure what calendar you use to make that 7 years ago, but you do you.
Who is content with winning 8-10 games a year? And BTW, when was the last time we only won 8 games in a year?
Just keep making stuff up and eventually you begin to believe it. I believe you are already there. The truth doesn’t matter.
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CU Medallion [18526]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: A national championship history has little to do with it.
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Nov 22, 2024, 7:31 PM
[ in reply to A national championship history has little to do with it. ] |
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Now do every other coach make $9 million plus a year rather than the single outlier coach who has happened to have won a title - 20 years ago. Mack Brown is 44-31 with no accomplishments in his second run at UNC - and still makes $5 million. Dabo is 62-16 over the same stretch with 3 ACC Titles, 2 CFP appearances, 1 CFP final appearance. Do you consider those comparable accomplishments?
“8-10” games a year is awfully disengenuous even for your standards. Dabo has finished a season with less than 10 wins once since 2010. When you have to predicate your attacks on Dabo on such obvious fallacies it belies your real intentions.
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Orange Elite [5297]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Clemson athletics budget: $200M
Nov 25, 2024, 10:53 AM
[ in reply to A national championship history has little to do with it. ] |
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UNC: $130M.
Clemson athletics rev growth during Swinney's tenure: 200%
UNC athletics rev growth during Coach McButterteeth's tenure: 33%
These factors, and others not discussed here, might have something to do with the disparity in pay.
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Ring of Honor [22809]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: A national championship history has little to do with it.
Nov 25, 2024, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to A national championship history has little to do with it. ] |
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It really isn't that simple. Kirby and Dabo both started making the bigger bucks after both winning 2 NCs. They were both put in line with Saban who was the leader at the time. All 3 were considered the 3 best coaches in college football when they signed their extensions.
Clemson made a strategic decision to extend Dabo in 2022 for the next 10 years. We are 49-14 from the 2020 season to now. We haven't made the playoffs and we've won one ACC Championship since then. Yes, that is below the standards set during our playoff run, but still among the best overall records of all coaches during that span.
I would still argue the ROI that Clemson and the community receives, along with the increasing brand awareness, merchandising, and national presence, brings in significant dollars to our mutual economy. Enrollment is up considerably as is overall interest in Clemson as an institution. Many of the new buildings that have gone up can be directly or indirectly connected to our success on the football field and our ability to get funding to support them.
Time will determine how effective a coach Dabo can be under the new landscape. We aren't off to a great start, but we certainly are far from the poverty line where we need to go hire a coach for half the salary.
As I said, time will tell...
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110%er [3938]
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Re: Not at all.
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Nov 22, 2024, 2:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not at all. ] |
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If you're going to compare the number of playoff teams Dabo has produced against those of Kirby: Dabo is in his 16th full year at Clemson. Kirby his 9th. Dabo won his first title in his 8th year and 2nd in year 10. Kirby's first title in year 6 and his second by his 7th year. Which of those coaches do you think is likely to be the first to win a third title?
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CU Medallion [18526]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Not at all.
Nov 22, 2024, 7:33 PM
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Hey, dude who was throwing around the term “non-sequitor”. This is the post you were looking for.
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Paw Master [16787]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I think it's reasonable to say that both Kirby and Dabo can boast two of the
Nov 25, 2024, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Not at all. ] |
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best, if not the two best, resumes of any active head coach.
Kirby:
Two National Championships
Four (I think?) SEC Championships
Worst graduation rate in college football
Several players who do not get arrested
All in 8 seasons
Dabo:
Two National Championships
Eight ACC Champioships
One of the best graduation rates in college football
All in 15 season
According to this site...
https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach
Kirby makes $13.2 M to Dabo's $11.2 M, so if you DO look at previous results when justifying salary (and I understand some on here do not), you could argue Dabo is a better deal than Kirby. But it's just fan fodder.
But as someone else referenced...wow...imagine being an FSU fan. Or Southern Cal. Or LSU. Or Kentucky. Yikes.
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CU Medallion [18526]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: I think it's reasonable to say that both Kirby and Dabo can boast two of the
Nov 25, 2024, 4:14 PM
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People don’t have to like it, but if they won’t acknowledge that past performance is the metric they’re just idiots. It is how sports and entertainment figures are paid. So their opinion of that valuation process is irrelevant. They are free to try and start their own independent movie studio or sports league and see just how far those principles get them. Since you won’t have to pay anyone anything they don’t earn along the way cost shouldn’t be an issue.
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Ring of Honor [22809]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Not at all.
Nov 25, 2024, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Not at all. ] |
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You can crow about it when and if Kirby wins his third. Until then, pipe down...
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Tiger Titan [50934]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Such a lame comeback.
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Nov 22, 2024, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Time to Stop Complaining ] |
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People who question the current ROI for Dabo's salary aren't jealous. They are smart people who understand the value of making smart investments.
Currently, paying Dabo $11 million isn't a smart investment.
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Varsity [104]
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Absolutely correct.
Nov 25, 2024, 11:43 AM
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Rationality and an analytical mind beats being a cultist every time
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Orange Blooded [2292]
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Re: Time to Stop Complaining
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Nov 22, 2024, 8:53 AM
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this is what happens when you post at 1:09 AM after a few too many Bud Lights.
Deal is "salary" over 4 years.
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Asst Coach [850]
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Re: Time to Stop Complaining
Nov 22, 2024, 10:57 AM
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What I am surprised about is LSU letting it happen. They can pay out just as much as any school. Must have thought he wasn't worth it after all. Maybe there's another in the wings.
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Asst Coach [898]
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Re: Time to Stop Complaining
Nov 22, 2024, 11:11 AM
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Huh?
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Valley Protector [1414]
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Re: Time to Stop Complaining
Nov 22, 2024, 12:18 PM
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What should Dabo's salary be?
If the coach of a team ranked 17th should be 17th highest paid, that would drop him down to 7.75M, about a 30% cut. Surely that would satisfy the "ROI" argument.
Everyone cool with that?
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Tiger Titan [50934]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Based on the last four years, he shouldn't be the 2nd highest paid coach.
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Nov 22, 2024, 12:30 PM
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How many years of underachieving football are some of you going to allow before you start to question what we pay him?
Or are you suggesting his success last decade in a different era of college football justify his pay regardless of what he does moving forward?
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Valley Protector [1414]
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Re: Based on the last four years, he shouldn't be the 2nd highest paid coach.
Nov 22, 2024, 1:03 PM
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I'll ask again, what should we pay him?
You're quite certain 11.1M is too high. Fair enough. What isn't too high?
I gave you the "market" for the 17th highest paid coach (7.75M), which would seem appropriate compensation for the coach of the 17th ranked team, no?
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Orange Elite [5297]
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Well, Dabo has a contract.
Nov 25, 2024, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Based on the last four years, he shouldn't be the 2nd highest paid coach. ] |
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If when it's time to open the books and talk contract renewals, AD Neff (and Clements, and BOT) feel an adjustment is necessary, I'm sure they'll offer Swinney the opportunity to accept, amend, or reject said adjustments.
Contracts are cool that way.
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Ring of Honor [22809]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2018
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Re: Based on the last four years, he shouldn't be the 2nd highest paid coach.
Nov 25, 2024, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to Based on the last four years, he shouldn't be the 2nd highest paid coach. ] |
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Since when is averaging 10 wins per season over the last 5 "down years" considered underachieving? Maybe we are underachieving compared to the standard we set for ourselves during the playoff years, but go ahead and google how many teams have won more games over the last 5 years.
Hint: it is a pretty short list...
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Varsity [104]
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That's an Appeal to Antiquity
Nov 25, 2024, 11:52 AM
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Logical fallacy.
Clemson's elite status was in a bygone era.
Dabo's salary is being measured by his former success, not his lesser current success.
It's starting to look like "Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin".
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Ring of Honor [22809]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: That's an Appeal to Antiquity
Nov 25, 2024, 1:08 PM
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49-14 is not a fallacy. I'm not claiming we are still in the elite category when it comes to playoffs but we are still one of the most consistent programs in the country.
Lane Kiffin is considered to be part of the "new breed" of coaches and he makes 9M per year. Is that really the right tradeoff to save ~2M per year. Will he, or someone like him, ever be as committed to our long term success as the guy we have, and will they even stick around through some of the leaner years? Are you really ready to take that chance?
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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1st Rounder [607]
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Let's keep Dabo and shut up with the whining!
Nov 22, 2024, 1:28 PM
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It's all about winning.... on the field, in the classroom, and in life for all these young men.
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Asst Coach [801]
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Re: Time to Stop Complaining
Nov 22, 2024, 2:47 PM
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Heres an amusing thought. Since some of yall think Dabo makes too much money; would you be satisfied if he payed some NIL money back to players out of his own salary? He for sure has the means
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