If you go back in time a million seconds, that's May 25, 2025. Go back a billion
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Paw Master [16786]
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If you go back in time a million seconds, that's May 25, 2025. Go back a billion
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Jun 6, 2025, 10:24 AM
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seconds, that's the year 1993.
Go back a trillion seconds, that's the year 29,685 BC.
I saw an interview with Ron Paul where he made that comment. Really puts the federal debt into perspective. The US federal debt is currently at $36.22 trillion.
That's why I align with Elon Musk's thinking on this stuff. There is no two ways about it, we have to balance the budget AND start chipping away at our debt. This is unsustainable, and government cannot be trusted.
More money for our defense? The defense budget that's already more than three times the next biggest spender and more than the next biggest military budgets combined? For a country with allies to our north and south and oceans to our east and west? For a country that's $36.22 trillion in debt? Madness.
More money for border control? BILLIONS more? Have we not already done significant improvements to border security? Madness.
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Orange Immortal [65838]
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Any politician who dares to cut anything, no matter what it is, will be
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Jun 6, 2025, 10:38 AM
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tarred and feathered (pretty much) as special interests carry a great big stick and don't GAF about anybody else. Therefore, very few/not enough politicians have the bawls to do what has to be done, as their commitment and gravy train is beholden to those special interests, and not to the general welfare of the electorate as a whole.
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Paw Master [16786]
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Which is why, if you are a citizen and a budget hawk like me, you have to
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Jun 6, 2025, 10:51 AM
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let your representatives know. No votes until they can spend money like they want a country with a future.
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Standout [244]
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Re: Which is why, if you are a citizen and a budget hawk like me, you have to
Jun 6, 2025, 11:16 AM
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I have tried.. My representative is working on legislation to create a $250 dollar bill.... Like the majority of Americans will need that form of currency to support their daily life.. And he started this endeavor after having to work hard/ struggle to figure out/ create the cuts needed for the BBB that is with the Senate.
I have no faith anymore that we can elect folks that are not devoted to self interest. Brand loyalty is to strong and more important than common sense. I will steal a line that Dawghater used earlier. My home is located in a county that is "redder than satan's anus". Even when presented with the lunacy of the $250 bill, Lexington will vote 65/35 to retain him.
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Clemson Conqueror [11474]
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Curious - do you actually reach out to your reps? Or are you just talking about
Jun 6, 2025, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to Which is why, if you are a citizen and a budget hawk like me, you have to ] |
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using your vote? My only act of rebellion is voting against all incumbents in the Primaries. (I'm a registered Independent, so I can jump back-and-forth every other year and vote in the Dem and Pub Primary.)
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Paw Master [16786]
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I reach out. To be completely candid, I've reached out to my two Senators.
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Jun 6, 2025, 12:48 PM
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I'm in NC so they are both Republicans and I feel like it's important messaging. I've reached out to them on both Ukraine support and the deficit (which, I realize someone will pounce on as being contradictory...I disagree but understand the perspective). I haven't reached out to my house rep because I live in deep blue territory and don't see the point, but I guess I could.
It's just emails through their website. Usually I get a response, and usually it's fluffy nonsense clearly written by a powerless staffer. But whatever...gotta do something. I had a friend tell me that the key is to call them, which I have never done but again, probably should.
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National Champion [8007]
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Re: I reach out. To be completely candid, I've reached out to my two Senators.
Jun 6, 2025, 2:09 PM
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So you're rightfully upset about the budget and appear to want to cut defense spending, however you're also all in to keep spending whatever it takes for Ukraine? Seems a bit incongruous. Just an FYI but every bit of foreign aid will be eliminated before anyone dares touch the third rail of entitlements for Americans.
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National Champion [8007]
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Re: Which is why, if you are a citizen and a budget hawk like me, you have to
Jun 6, 2025, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Which is why, if you are a citizen and a budget hawk like me, you have to ] |
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If you were a "budget hawk" you'd have mentioned a lot more than defense and border control spending in your initial post. Let me know when you're ready to address entitlements in any significant way because thats the only way we are gonna balance the budget, not via defense cuts, at least not exclusively defense cuts.
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Paw Master [16786]
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Herp derp okay whatever.
Jun 6, 2025, 2:08 PM
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I'm ready to address entitlements in a significant way.
Hope you feel better now about my Budget Hawk credentials!
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National Champion [8007]
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Re: Herp derp okay whatever.
Jun 6, 2025, 2:12 PM
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Well if you're gonna create a long rant about the deficit and only blab about things that wouldn't balance it even if they were entirely eliminated one must wonder what the hecks wrong with you.
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Paw Master [16786]
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I addressed the two points I have heard have increased spending on the
Jun 6, 2025, 2:26 PM
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BBB. Not every post is meant to be an exhaustive survey of the subject. Feel free to add your commentary in a constructive manner instead of throwing out my points because you have additional points.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [109125]
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Most money isn't real. Most, in the US, is simply quantified demand.
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Jun 6, 2025, 11:30 AM
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As such, it can never become real.
Zillow says your house is "worth" $1 million. It isn't worth a single penny until someone buys it. Then, whatever that value is, becomes real, until it appreciates some more. Or depreciates.
Stocks? Not real. Not dollars. They're shares. With a market, and a demand. Elon Musk doesn't lose $150 billion when his stock tanks, he loses $150 billion worth of DEMAND for the stock. His net worth is never real until it is made real. The reason we have such high wealth "inequality" is because most Americans exchange labor for dollars, but acquire relatively few. Others, their dollars reside in mostly assets that are valued by quantified demand. So they don't have those DOLLARS, they have that asset valued at that DEMAND, given in dollars, and subject to the market demand for it.
Now I can sell all my shares of whatever, and get cold, hard cash (and pay capital gains). BUT, Elon Musk does NOT have that luxury. I mean he can sell all his shares, and get pennies on the dollar for them. He WILL NEVER GET the full share market value for his stock holdings if he sells them all. The demand would TANK, the market would be flooded with Tesla stock, and no one would want to buy it because Musk is selling it all. And this is the rub with stocks. Large companies, their stock values are carefully controlled. Institutional investors hold large swaths of stocks in many companies, think BlackRock/Citadel/etc. By controlling the stocks they have and hold, and other investors, they can shrink the universe of stocks available for sale simply by sitting on their own. This means less stock for sale, so demand can be maximized and the value stays high or climbs.
Take a huge company, say Tesla. Maybe a dozen or so huge investors own maybe 60% of the stock. Another dozen less huge institutional investors hold maybe 20% more. They are content to sit on those assets and use them as collateral for debt. That leaves 20% of the total NUMBER OF STOCKS available, at any given time, to be sold. Company buybacks do the same thing, shrink the universe of stocks available for sale to boost share prices. So the market, the "quantified demand" for Tesla stock, is based on ONLY 20% of the company's stock that's even on the market TO BE SOLD. Meanwhile, those sitting on the rest of the stock, the institutional investors, NONE of whom want to sell, they benefit from this because that QUANTIFIED demand for the 20% they don't own, transfers (somehow) to the value of their stock. And this isn't true. It's an illusion. And as this process all takes place, you start to see how crashes happen. When the large investors bolt, they are anxious to sell the highest demand.
If too many (or few depending on your perspective) institutional investors gobble up the stock, and the excess (available) market of stocks for sale becomes too small, causing prices to get prohibitively high for smaller investors, they do a stock split, to double the universe of available stock again. This maximizes the rate of increase that can be achieved, given the holdings of the larger investors. It increases the universe of stocks so that excess available stock can grow at a higher rate again as it means more shares, that become more affordable. But even as this lowers the value, that split also doubles the number of stocks the prior institutional investors held, meaning they lose nothing on the lower stock price after the split, and keep increasing asset values.
Money is real ONLY at the point of exchange. Purchase or sale.
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Tiger Titan [49007]
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Elons statements are correct but his intentions are not pure
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Jun 6, 2025, 11:42 AM
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That being said, he’s 100 percent right on the budget and anyone who supports Trump and this bill can’t call themselves a conservative.
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Hall of Famer [8153]
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There's no way to balance the budget without increasing revenues
Jun 6, 2025, 1:18 PM
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and Elon's DOGE significantly increased the deficit by cutting IRS manpower. Anyone who says we can balance the budget with just spending cuts is lying, an idiot, or both.
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Paw Master [16786]
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Probably, but spending needs to be cut first. Here's how I see it.
Jun 6, 2025, 2:01 PM
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In 2024, the US Government collected $4.9 trillion in taxes.
There are 340,100,000 people in this country. That's $14,408 per person. There are 258,300,000 adults in this country. That's $18,970 per adult.
The federal government of the US OUGHT to be able to provide the services needed for $14,408 per person in the US.
State and Local Governments collected another $2.095 trillion in taxes in 2024.
That's an additional $6,160 per person and $8,111 per adult.
So governance organizations...state, local and federal, received $20,567 per person...$27,081 per adult...in 2024.
If you cannot provide the services needed at that funding level, you are out of control.
If you cannot provide for the defense of this country by having a military budget that is more than 3x the next country and more than the next 9 countries combined, with the greatest natural defenses in the world, you are out of control.
Absolute madness. If they slash that down to the point where we are all begging for mercy...fine...raise taxes. But to me the spending cuts must come first.
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Hall of Famer [8153]
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What's the best you can do practically?
Jun 6, 2025, 2:30 PM
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Freeze defense spending? Raise social security age? We could probably save money by reforming health care, but the lobbyists will never allow that.
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Paw Master [16786]
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I don't pretend to know. I just believe that the answer must start
Jun 6, 2025, 3:21 PM
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with cutting spending. I think it's right practically because, as I wrote above, we have a spending problem WAAAAAAY more than we have a revenue problem. And I think it's right cynically because politicians love spending money, so raising taxes makes it harder to cut spending.
I'm not pretending that I know exactly how to do it and I'm not pretending it will be easy. That's why I generally support DOGE. It's messy, yes. They made mistakes, yep. But they identified places we can cut (call it waste, call it whatever) and I appreciate that. I regret that they didn't REALLY get their hands on the Defense Department while Elon was in charge.
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Hall of Famer [8153]
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I'm trying not to write a novel in response.
Jun 7, 2025, 2:03 PM
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While I do think running up deficits is a serious issue, I fundamentally don't believe spending is a problem, but I get why other people might think that. My best guess is that government sucks ### on purpose and people lose sight of what it does. But even with all that, let's say you don't think the government spending money on soft power like USAID is a good idea: YOU CAN JUST NOT FUND THEM. Congress believe it or not has that power. There's no waste, fraud, or anything that DOGE identified. All this #### was already public knowledge. In fact, they made government less transparent (see firing IGs or shutting down usaspending.gov)! Even if you don't care that they are increasing deficits by bringing in lower revenues, there's a good chance these morons are gonna offset any short term spending cuts with lawsuits, early retirement incentives, and having to hire contractors instead of full time employees.
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Paw Master [17465]
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Ultimate Tiger [35226]
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I think it's true, but increasing revenues doesn't directly mean increasing...
Jun 6, 2025, 2:53 PM
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tax rates...can be through GDP growth too.
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Orange Phenom [14623]
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ROTFLMAO
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Jun 7, 2025, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to This is a lie.*** ] |
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If you had any ability to discern a lie when you hear it you wouldn’t be a MAGA. Gullibility is the defining attribute of a MAGA idiot. It’s like how you discern the difference between alligators and crocodiles by the shape of the snout.
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Hall of Famer [8122]
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you guys need to stop voting
Jun 6, 2025, 9:30 PM
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democrat because all they are doing is buying votes to stay in power. Seriously.
I agree the spending has to be curtailed. Defense spending should be on the table, but the social spending that has PROVEN to be a waste of money in terms of moving people into the middle class also has to be on the table.
I've said this before...at least the 'welfare' that is the US Gov't spending with the defense industrial base provides a tangible product - ships, jets, soldiers, etc. that can project power. Spending on welfare, etc. just digs the hole deeper - making more people dependent.
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Ultimate Tiger [35226]
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You mean like no tax on tips and OT? Straight vote purchase***
Jun 7, 2025, 2:19 PM
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Ring of Honor [23980]
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Shrinking the middle class decreases tax revenue.
Jun 7, 2025, 4:00 PM
[ in reply to you guys need to stop voting ] |
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This is a big part of the issue.
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Replies: 23
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