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Top TigerNet [30209]
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Assigned gender at birth.
Jun 6, 2025, 7:56 PM
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File under "philosophical questions."
What does this statement mean? Does it have any meaning at all?
When a baby is born is he assigned a gender? If so, who assigned it? Who has the authority to assign a gender to a newborn? Does the person doing the assigning have the authority to change the assignment? If not, who has the authority to change the assignment? It there a time limit on the assignment, like on a driver's license? Do you have to go somewhere and get the assignment extended or renewed or altered?
When I was born the doctor didn't say, "I assign you the gender of boy." He announced it. "It's a boy." It was not a decision of his, it was a declaration. It was not within his power to decide my gender. He never even considered he might have this authority.
As I think about the phrase "assigned gender at birth" it appears to be inane, void of any meaning.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [109322]
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God assigns a gender. The doctor looks. If there's a ####, it's a boy.
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Jun 6, 2025, 8:27 PM
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If there ia a #######, it's a girl.
How difficult can one make this?
If you want to get technical you can take a blood test. XX girl, XY boy.
Why does this have to be so confusing?
Who tells me the sky is blue? A doctor? What right does he have to tell me the sky is blue. It may be purple, or chartreuse.
Who dictates that water is wet? What if I think it's dry?
Who dictates 2+2=4? What if I think it's 7?
Not even an argument to have IMHO.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [109322]
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PS. Gender is not "assigned" at birth. It is noted and recorded at birth.***
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Jun 7, 2025, 11:27 AM
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: Assigned gender at birth.
Jun 6, 2025, 8:56 PM
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This is a pretty simple concept for all non-Democrats.
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CU Medallion [19139]
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What you're really assigned at birth is a "sex"
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Jun 6, 2025, 10:09 PM
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Gender is assigning cultural values to that sex. The example I always use is thinking about the colors blue/pink that are associated with boy/girl, respectively. They reflect what society says is correct for the sex of the baby. But that reflection has changed over the years.
Up until the 20th century, white was the color for both sexes, then it became pink for boys and blue for girls and then switched with the baby boomers to blue for boys and pink for girls.
I think it's a perfect example to show the differences of the semantic argument between "sex" and "gender" and also helps to illustrate the fluidity of "gender" as culturally defined.
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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"Gender is a social construct."
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Jun 7, 2025, 12:26 AM
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What does that mean? I hear folks using it all the time, but it is as meaningless to me as "assigning gender."
So society determines who is a woman and who is a man? Then, how can it be assigned at birth?
A colt is a male horse. Did someone assign the gender of colt? Could the vet assign the gender phillie to a male horse?
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CU Medallion [19139]
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Gender is the values, reflections, and characteristics society places on "sex"
Jun 7, 2025, 4:18 PM
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Like with the color example, the colors blue/pink are a reflection or signal of the "sex" of the baby determined by society. There's no actual connection between the sex of a child and a color other than what society has created. That's what gender is, the reflection and attributions of how we perceive the biological "sex" of a person.
Society doesn't determine who is a man and a woman. That's biological, that's "Sex". It does create the roles, expectations, valuation, and reflections of what a "man" or "woman" is. That's Gender.
Your confusion comes from the fact that the "Sex" of someone and the "gender" of someone are often used interchangeably, which just confuses the issue. And also realize I have severely dumbed down this explanation to be as simple as possible when the issue is more complex (e.g., intersex, trans issues, etc.)
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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Values, reflections and characteristics.
Jun 7, 2025, 10:28 PM
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What values are women values? What values are men values?
What characteristics (other than biological sex) are men characteristics? What are women characteristics.
Note: I appreciate your discussion. I find it very informative.
Message was edited by: bretfsu®
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [109322]
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CU Medallion [19139]
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Once again, that's "sex" not gender" ...
Jun 8, 2025, 5:16 PM
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Though they can be used interchangeably in some contexts, which adds to the confusion. Obviously, you would agree that society places values, attributions,roles, and views about and on a person's sex, correct? If not gender, what name would you give to that fact?
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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OK, since sex and gender are different,...
Jun 10, 2025, 6:46 AM
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.... What is a woman?
Who assigns gender at birth?
Those should be simple questions.
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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So, sex and gender are different.
Jun 8, 2025, 4:19 PM
[ in reply to Gender is the values, reflections, and characteristics society places on "sex" ] |
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How so?
********
Society doesn't determine who is a man and a woman. That's biological, that's "Sex". It does create the roles, expectations, valuation, and reflections of what a "man" or "woman" is. That's Gender.
********
What does "transgender" mean?
You seem to be saying in your first two sentences that "man" and "woman" are the same as sex. Can a male become a female? Can a man become a woman? Can a person accurately be secribed as a female man or a male woman?
And, if gender and sex are different, why are people who claim to be transgender trying to become transexual through physical body modifications and hormonal treatments? Why can't they just say "I am a male and a woman" and that be sufficient? If gender and sex are different why do males who identify as a woman want to participate in female sports?
I think the problem is, there are no definitions, only vague generalities, of the terms when used by the LGBTQ proponents. If they could define their terms clearly it sure would help.
When I took geometry my HS teacher explained to us that a definition had to be precise, not vague. Example: A triangle is when you take three line segments and where you arrange them into a fugure that looks like a triangle.
That definition was clearly not acceptable for several reasons. One being definitions cannot be circular. The definition of "woman" cannot include the word "woman" in it.
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CU Medallion [19139]
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Sorry, I added to the confusion...
Jun 8, 2025, 5:47 PM
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Similar to how sex and gender are used interchangeably in certain contexts, which can be confusing, so too can "man/woman." I should have used "male/female" when talking about the biological nature of sex differences.
The transgender issue is a whole level of this conversation and one that I'm not super qualified to speak on with any real depth or expertise. My basic understanding is that transgender doesn't have to include being transsexual (changing your physical self). Transgender people simply view themselves in their mind as the opposite gender than what their sex says they are, and they take steps to bring those things into balance (doesn't have to necessarily mean medically changing their sex characteristics which would be transsexual).
For your questions:
Being a man/woman involves both the sex of a person and the gender of the person. For instance, obviously a p5nis/######, but also expectations about who they are and the responsibilities they carry in society. Ask yourself why we talk about having good "male/female role models" for our kids instead of just "role models", it's because society attributes certain values on what being a man/woman are in society. That's thinking about gender, because it's not scientific or biological, it's societal/cultural. (again, also think about how you view the colors "pink" and "blue" and ask yourself why you think of one as "masculine" and the other "feminine")
If your gender and sex don't line up, saying "I'm a man/woman" won't be enough. There's conflict between the two so that's why it's not enough to just say it.
Males who identify as women want to participate in female sports because they see themselves as females so naturally they'd want to compete against other females. (note, I'm not arguing they should or shouldn't, just answering your question)
Again, I'm not an expert and certainly don't want to speak for the LGBTQ community, but I'd guess they think the terms are pretty well defined. But, I do agree it's not like math, lol.
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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Thanks. I think we agree...
Jun 8, 2025, 9:23 PM
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.... at least at much as we disagree.
I don't think of those characteristics as being gender. There are traits the are labeled masculine or feminine. A girl can have masculine traits. We used to call her a tomboy. A boy can have feminine traits. We used to call him a sissy. (Really poor choice on my part. Sissy was always considered negative. Tomboy was more a nuetral term.)
But, but we never called a feminine man a woman or a woman with masculine characteristics a man.
Now, we are actually having a serious discussion, "Can a man decide he is a woman and can a woman decide he is a man?" A man can adapt feminine characteristics, but that doesn't make him a woman.
I still think the problem is people who say "gender is a social concept" will not give a definition of "man" or "woman." They talk around it but when asked the simple question, "What is a woman?" They get offended by the question. The conversation becomes something like,
I am a woman because I identify as a woman.
What are you identifying as?
A woman.
What is a woman?
Anyone who identifies as a woman?
What are they identifying as?
A woman?
What is that?
What is what?
What they are identifying as?
Etc. Etc.
It would be like me saying, "I am a flulerpian." What makes me a flulerpian? Well, it is because I identify as a flulerpian. What is a flulerpian? I am a flulerpian.
You would have absolutely no idea what a flulerpian is or what makes me a flulerpian.
The problem is "man" and "woman" are not just nonsensical words made up by Dr. Suess.
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CU Medallion [19139]
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The fact that the terms "masculine" and "feminine" change as society changes
Jun 8, 2025, 10:26 PM
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in terms of what they describe and apply to is why there is a difference between "sex" and "gender". Interesting you bring up a girl who views themselves as a tomboy, because what changes about that person if they simply view themselves as a man? How does their view of themselves change anything about them from your perspective?
"woman" is a gender classification for a female adult person.
How do you view intersex persons? Does their existence not prove a non-binary view of gender/sex?
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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Woman is a gender classification for a female adult person.
Jun 10, 2025, 6:51 AM
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I agree with that statement.
But, apparently some think that a male adult person can be classified as a woman. How can this be true if your statement is true?
Can a female adult person be classified as a man? Can a male adult person be classified as a woman?
If so, then what is a woman?
Message was edited by: bretfsu®
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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Thanks to all who participated in this thread.
Jun 11, 2025, 6:39 AM
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I found it very enlightening. It increased my understanding of how people view "assigned gender at birth."
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Ultimate Tiger [35280]
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CU Medallion [19139]
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How is that gibberish?
Jun 8, 2025, 5:49 PM
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Yes, it's a simplistic example, but it's accurate to the issue.
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Walk-On [72]
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Re: Assigned gender at birth.
Jun 7, 2025, 4:35 AM
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Transmutation is antichrist (cockatrice) spirit @ work.
Isaiah 14:29
King James Version
29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
Out of the serpent's (Satan's) root comes forth a cockatrice (man of sin/king #7). And his fruit (death & resurrection》see John 12:24) will be a fiery flying serpent (false prophet/king 8 who is of the 7).
Symbolic Meaning:
Because of the crown on its head and its upright strut, the cockatrice has been labeled by many to be the king of serpents. As such, the creature can be seen as a symbol of leadership. In other instances, it has been said to represent sin and the devil, with some believing that it was the very serpent which gave the apple to Eve in the Garden of Eden. It can also be seen as a symbol of destruction, killing all in its path. Additionally, alchemists considered it a symbol of the transmutation.
transmutation
Overview
Usage examples
Similar and opposite words
Pronunciation
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
noun
noun: transmutation; plural noun: transmutations
the action of changing or the state of being changed into another form.
"the transmutation of the political economy of the postwar years was complete"
Physics
the changing of one element into another by radioactive decay, nuclear bombardment, or similar processes.
historical•Biology
the conversion or transformation of one species into another.
the supposed alchemical process of changing base metals into gold.
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Oculus Spirit [43195]
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Doctors sometimes see a weenie
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Jun 7, 2025, 11:44 AM
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and falsely assume that it is a male. Since there is no way to tell if a baby is male or female, they just guess.
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All-TigerNet [5684]
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Re: Doctors sometimes see a weenie
Jun 8, 2025, 5:30 AM
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Wouldn't that be just simply observation of phenotype? Meaning XY chromosomes (genotype) thus have the phenotype expression of ##### and scrotum (if dropped) and then XX chromosomes (genotype), thus have the phenotype expression of ######.
Yes sometimes its not easy to tell due to limited phenotype expressiom or some abnormalities but then as explained a blood test will reveal sex.
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110%er [3673]
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Re: Assigned gender at birth.
Jun 8, 2025, 8:20 AM
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What about when someone has both sex organs?
What is god up to in that situation?
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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Those extremely rare occassions are not relevant to this discussion.
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Jun 8, 2025, 4:03 PM
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They are a red herring. They are brought up by people who cannot reationally explain their position.
People who believe "gender is a social construct" and "a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman" and "gender is assigned at birth" are not talking about those extremely rare situations to which you refer.
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110%er [3673]
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Re: Those extremely rare occassions are not relevant to this discussion.
Jun 9, 2025, 2:33 PM
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I’m not talking about what other people say or believe about gender.
Your position is that there is a god that decides a persons gender at birth.
So I’m asking what is going on when someone has both organs? Could god not decide? What’s going on in that situation?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103165]
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God didn't do that, man sinned which brought a curse upon our universe.
Jun 10, 2025, 5:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: Assigned gender at birth. ] |
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We call it entropy. The Bible calls it justice. Our DNA has devolved. We are all born with flaws which always lead us to not be happy with our bodies.
The good thing about entropy is that we don't live forever. If we did we would be in decrepit bodies and minds.
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Game Changer [1846]
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Re: Assigned gender at birth.
Jun 9, 2025, 9:06 AM
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While not a sociologist nor psychologist my opinion on this is that (based on the OP) it has little to do with sex or gender. IMHO is has more to do with blurring or erasing the "lines" of what we would call societal norms. A person can identify themselves as just about anything. And who would really care? But the issue has become one of changing how the rest of the world views you.
I know of one instance where a parent informed the school that their daughter identifies as a cat. My first reaction was "well, good for her". But when the school has to indulge that and make accommodation for that it kinda goes off the rails for me.
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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When a culture has serious disagreement...
Jun 9, 2025, 12:17 PM
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... on the definition of a woman, it is a near fatal status.
The problem is not so much the fact that we can't even define a woman, or give anything other than a vague explanation of the difference between gender and sex that is in fact meaningless. That is just a symptom of a much greater and deeper problem.
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Dynasty Maker [3348]
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Why is this topic on the religion board and why are you triggered by it?***
Jun 9, 2025, 12:56 PM
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: Why is this topic on the religion board and why are you triggered by it?***
Jun 9, 2025, 2:27 PM
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It is a religious issue. It is also a political issue. It is also a common sense issue. Whatever part you were born with between your legs defines what you is. My Beagle can think he is a Red Bone Conn Hound all he wants, but he is still a Beagle. Only a fool would call Him a Red Bone. The whole man or woman issue is equally simple.
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Dynasty Maker [3348]
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It's a culture war issue that belongs on the political board....
Jun 9, 2025, 2:47 PM
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where right-wingers (like you) foam at the mouth over these types of things.
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: It's a culture war issue that belongs on the political board....
Jun 9, 2025, 3:11 PM
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Glad to be a far right winger.
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Redshirt [99]
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: Why is this topic on the religion board and why are you triggered by it?***
Jun 9, 2025, 6:07 PM
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The numbers are exaggerated. Many experts estimate the real percentage to be .018%. Other than that, you are what parts you have. If you truly have two sets of parts, I don’t have a problem with you choosing. For the other 99.982%, you is what you got between your legs.
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Redshirt [99]
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Re: Why is this topic on the religion board and why are you triggered by it?***
Jun 9, 2025, 6:08 PM
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Sure I agree, but you skipped over gender dysphoria.
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110%er [3673]
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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Redshirt [99]
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Re: I have not mentioned religion once.
Jun 9, 2025, 3:50 PM
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Why don’t you paste the full definition of “gender” and tell us where you think it’s unclear.
Could be an interesting discussion.
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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When I was growing up...
Jun 9, 2025, 8:16 PM
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....Webster's Dictionary was considered the gold standard (unless you were a fan of Laugh In. Then you used Funk and Wagnall's.)
the definiton was
Gender - noun - a sex, male or female.
Their was no difference between a male bathroom and a men's bathroom. They were considered synonym's.
When did that change and what is the new definition?
Dictionary.com defines it this way:
gender - either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior: Compare sex 1( def 1 ).
I have no idea what that clause after the comma means. What are the social and cultural roles and behavior used to determine gender? Teachers are women and doctors are men? People who work are men and people who stay home and take care of the children are women?
What behaviors determine ghe gender? If you throw like a girl does that make you a girl? If you can't hit it past the Ladies Tee on the golf course does that make you a woman?
Is it possible to be a male woman or a female man?
And, back to my original question about "assigned gender at birth." If a person is assigned gender by society or culture, then how can that person change that assignment. If society says you are a woman, then you must be a woman. It's not your decision.
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Dynasty Maker [3348]
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Re: Your OP wasn't philosophical, but was culture war trollin. Nice try. Wrong board***
Jun 9, 2025, 7:27 PM
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It's religious. "God created them male and female.".
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Redshirt [99]
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Re: Your OP wasn't philosophical, but was culture war trollin. Nice try. Wrong board***
Jun 9, 2025, 7:28 PM
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*except when he didn’t
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: Your OP wasn't philosophical, but was culture war trollin. Nice try. Wrong board***
Jun 9, 2025, 7:30 PM
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Birth defects occur as a product of the fall. You don't build theology on birth defects.
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Redshirt [99]
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Re: Your OP wasn't philosophical, but was culture war trollin. Nice try. Wrong board***
Jun 9, 2025, 7:46 PM
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They occur due to mutations in dna, we have hard evidence for this.
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: Your OP wasn't philosophical, but was culture war trollin. Nice try. Wrong board***
Jun 9, 2025, 8:10 PM
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Mutations-consequence of the fall.
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Redshirt [99]
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Re: Your OP wasn't philosophical, but was culture war trollin. Nice try. Wrong board***
Jun 9, 2025, 8:11 PM
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And the evidence for this is...?
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: Your OP wasn't philosophical, but was culture war trollin. Nice try. Wrong board***
Jun 10, 2025, 6:52 AM
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God told us.
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Redshirt [99]
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Re: Your OP wasn't philosophical, but was culture war trollin. Nice try. Wrong board***
Jun 10, 2025, 9:13 AM
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Where? The bible saying something is just another man making a claim. No different than what you are doing right now.
Do you have evidence that this is God speaking that isn’t just another man making the claim?
I get you believe it, that’s fine, but I’m betting that’s completely based on faith that what these men say is true.
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: I never brought up religion.
Jun 9, 2025, 11:36 PM
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To me, there is a concrete answer to the question.
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Top TigerNet [30209]
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I agree with you.
Jun 10, 2025, 6:55 AM
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A woman is an adult female human being.
No one assigns gender at birth. Your gender was determined when you were created at conception.
Seems very clear to me. Seems like the scientific facts support that. Seems like for thousands of years cultures world-wide have accepted that. But, today there is a serious discussion with many people disagreeing with that.
I was just asking those people to explain why you and I are wrong.
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Dynasty Maker [3348]
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Again, you weren't engaged in anything philosophical...
Jun 10, 2025, 8:48 AM
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You were doing culture war trolling, and it belongs on the politics board, not this board.
Nice try though, Mr. 'I'm just looking for philosophical discussion'....
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Redshirt [99]
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Re: Again, you weren't engaged in anything philosophical...
Jun 10, 2025, 9:14 AM
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Meh, he clearly stated his philosophical intentions at the outset and as far as I can tell he’s sticking to that.
No need to gatekeep here imho
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Dynasty Maker [3348]
TigerPulse: 96%
34
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Bret does stuff like this occasionally....
Jun 10, 2025, 9:22 AM
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He'll take a political or culture-war topic, and try and make it into a philosophical or religious topic. Usually, I'm OK with his framing, because there's a R&P thread that exists. But this one was reaching a little bit.
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Top TigerNet [30209]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
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You can't discuss gender without religion?
Jun 10, 2025, 11:25 AM
[ in reply to Again, you weren't engaged in anything philosophical... ] |
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The original post was "assigned gender at birth."
So, are these two questions philosophical or religious?
1. Are you assigned gender at birth?
2. If so, who assigned your gender?
Seems to me like that is something I would have diswcussed in my Philosophy 101: Introduction to Philosophy class I took when I was a freshman in college. (That was January 1970. We didn't discuss it because 55 years ago it was not an issue that anyone would have thought of. Now, it is. I would imagine it is now a topic in many Intro to Philosophy classes.)
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103165]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 99116
Joined: 2009
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It's hard to argue with a doctor.***
Jun 10, 2025, 5:00 AM
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