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Orange Blooded [2481]
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Jason Kirk of SB Nation on Deshaun Watson and the Heisman...
Mar 24, 2017, 9:30 AM
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A college football newsletter by Jason Kirk
Deshaun Watson should've won the Heisman in 2015. Derrick Henry's win wasn't an injustice, but Clemson never would've made a Playoff run without Watson. Hard to say the same about Bama and Henry.
Lamar Jackson was the right choice last season, though if they handed it out after the season, Watson would've taken it.
The greatest Clemson player ever leaves with a national title, all sorts of individual awards, a potential top-10 NFL Draft contract, and two top-three Heisman finishes. Though Jackson put up tons of highlights and touchdowns, mostly against overwhelmed competition like Charlotte and Florida State, it's still jarring to try and think of 2016 as belonging to anybody but Watson.
On ESPN's QB sitdown show, Jon Gruden went through some of Watson's awards, including one that involves off-field achievement (Watson has followed Warrick Dunn into work with Habitat for Humanity), and asked the QB what more he could've done to win the big one.
"When you beat Ohio State like you beat 'em, as the starting quarterback, and you beat Notre Dame in the rain -- and Notre Dame was a heck of a team two years ago -- you beat Oklahoma, great team, you beat Florida State in Tallahassee in the two-minute drill, I'm just curious. Does it tick you off? How can you not win the Heisman with that body of work? Even Alabama, you got them too."
Gruden's including a bunch of wins that didn't impact either Heisman race, seeing as they were either Playoff games or spread across two seasons. But we know what he meant.
"What do you gotta do to win that Heisman?" Gruden asked.
"Last year, I guess lose a couple games, and then win it?" Watson laughed. Jackson's team lost to Watson's team close, got blown out at Houson, and fell to rival Kentucky. However, Jackson finished with bigger numbers, and it's quite arguable that he outdueled Watson in Clemson.
"I just kinda keep it in the back of my mind. Like Coach Swinney said, I didn't miss out on the Heisman," he said. "They missed out on me."
They really oughta hand that trophy out after bowl season. But Jackson deserved it when it was handed out, Watson got the trophy that matters more, and all is well.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101262]
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Watson DiD NOT Get OUTDUELED in DV by LAMAR!!
Mar 24, 2017, 9:41 AM
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In fact, DW4 scored 2 TD's within minutes in the 4th quarter when TiGS were down big time.
And, Jackson DID NOT DESERVE the Heisman last year..especially with his losses in the last part of the regular season and a bowl loss too (I believe).
Where do these pundits come uP with this garbage?!?!
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TigerNet Elite [69800]
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Lamar had more rushing yardage...
Mar 24, 2017, 9:55 AM
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and more rushing TD's which is to be expected since he is their leading rusher.
Passing, Lamarville was 27 of 44 for 295 yards and 1 TD.
Watson was 20 of 31 for 306 yards and 5 TDs.
More importantly, Watson led the offense on two fourth-quarter touchdowns drives to win the game 42-36.
Outdueled my a$$ !!!!!
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Orange Elite [5304]
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Re: Lamar had more rushing yardage...
Mar 24, 2017, 11:35 AM
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lmao..that's if you only care about totals....
Yes, Lamar had a higher total rush yards...but he also rushed 17 more times than Watson...31 vs DW's 14. You look at the yards per rush averages though and it was in fact Watson that had the higher yards per rush (6.5 per rush vs Lamar's 5.2).
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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DW4 is a "winner" ... most important stat by far.
Mar 24, 2017, 12:45 PM
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If a blind vote were take of the coaches around the country as to which QB they'd rather build their team around, the vast majority would choose DW4 ...
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Tiger Spirit [9977]
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You have one game for all the marbles and can choose...
Mar 24, 2017, 10:11 AM
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one to be your QB.....who is it? That's what it comes down to for me and the decision isn't even close. DW did get the trophy that matters and the Heisman committee can suck it.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ
Mar 24, 2017, 10:15 AM
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So how in any way is it "arguable" that Jackson out dueled him? Because he had a few more rushing yards? Because he had 2 less INT? One of Watson's INTs is fully on McCloud btw.
They'll say anything to fit the media's narrative at the time that LJ was the best in the country I guess.
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National Champion [8038]
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Classic case of the hype machine influencing the vote
Mar 24, 2017, 10:43 AM
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The voting base couldn't think for themselves on this one. They all screwed up but won't ever admit it. LJ was flawed in that if u could get pressure on him and make him think before he was ready to he was done. Watson was never done in any game.
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Dynasty Maker [3434]
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Re: Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ
Mar 24, 2017, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ ] |
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If you're going to refer to "media narratives", you should probably excuse guys like Jason Kirk and the whole Shutdown Fullcast crew. They operate on their own wavelength.
The argument can be made for Jackson outdueling Watson in our game, IMO. Watson gets huge points for leading the comeback, but Jackson also must get credit for seemingly doing it all on his own. Clemson's defensive line was handling Louisville's OL throughout the game, Jackson was getting beaten up nonstop, and he still managed to nearly win a huge game, seemingly on his own, in one of the most difficult stadiums in the nation.
Kirk is 100% accurate in saying Jackson "arguably" outdueled Watson...I'm not sure I agree with him, but the argument can be made.
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Orange Elite [5304]
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Re: Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ
Mar 24, 2017, 11:52 AM
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How so...just by citing his total rush yards, rush TD's and his less interceptions?
Because last I recall, Waston had the higher total pass yards in less pass attempts, averaged the higher pass yards per pass, had the more total TD's, had the higher passing TD's, had the higher rush yards per rush as well (while rushing for less than half the attempts that Lamar did).
You ask me, the one that out-dueled the other is Watson, and the stats back it up when looking beyond just a few spots.
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National Champion [8038]
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He play good no doubt but had his chance to win it
Mar 24, 2017, 12:05 PM
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And solidify that status and didn't get it done. That's all I should know. Watson had better numbers and won. His hype machine was already at a 10 so he got the extra rub by the media bc he didn't choke.like he did later.
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National Champion [8038]
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He play good no doubt but had his chance to win it
Mar 24, 2017, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ ] |
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And solidify that status and didn't get it done. That's all I should know. Watson had better numbers and won. His hype machine was already at a 10 so he got the extra rub by the media bc he didn't choke.like he did later.
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Dynasty Maker [3434]
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Re: Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ
Mar 24, 2017, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ ] |
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No, by watching the game. Their stats are relatively similar. Deshaun had more TDs (5 vs 3) but several turnovers (4 vs 1), and Jackson accounting for more total yards (457 vs 397). They're relatively similar in their stats, and I'm not sure why everyone is all of a sudden ONLY going by statistics. As I mentioned in my previous post, Watson gets HUGE points for leading the Tigers to victory when being down by double-digits in the 4th quarter. However Jackson seemingly did everything on his own. He didn't have the same talent surrounding him as Deshaun, and he had to do all of this against a MUCH tougher defense while playing in one of the toughest venues in the nation.
All that said, I'm still not sure I'd say Jackson outdueled Deshaun...however I do believe the argument is there. I know a lot of people here decided to hate Lamar Jackson's guts for some reason, but there has to be some objectivity sometimes.
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Orange Elite [5304]
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Re: Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ
Mar 24, 2017, 5:28 PM
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While you are being "objective" are you not going to count that 1 of those interceptions, the one that turned the game around in the first play of the 3rd quarter, was fully on Ray Ray not catching the ball that bounced off him?
Or the reality that the half time score was 28-10....and all of those 28 points were done in one quarter alone? Watson did to them in the 2nd quarter about as much as Lamar did in the 3rd, Lamar is just getting more attention because it was a comeback story....plus the fact his first TD of the 3rd quarter off a short field from an interception. Do you honestly think if Watson and Co. had went down and scored to start the 3rd quarter and put the game 35-10 (also erasing the short field advantage for the TD), there would have been the same comeback? Getting that changed the game, and Lamar, entirely. Not taking away he did carve our man coverage changed defense up after we caame out 2nd half and shifted away from the zone that had him TD-less.
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Dynasty Maker [3434]
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Re: Watson had more yards, TDs and a better completion than LJ
Mar 24, 2017, 6:26 PM
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I don't disagree with you...but I hate playing the "if ______ didn't happen then, ______, ______, and _____ wouldn't have happened" game and then act as if that hypothetical situation should diminish actual accomplishments. That's like a Bama fan saying "well if NC State's FG kicker didn't miss that last kick, then Clemson wouldn't have made the playoff and WE'D be national champions", and pretending that actually matters.
The fact is Jackson made some amazing plays, and so did Watson. I think Jackson deserves some extra credit for a few reasons which I've already listed:
1. His teammates weren't giving him nearly the support Deshaun was getting.
2. He was playing against a tenacious Clemson defense which absolutely DESTROYED him the entire first half.
3. He did it on the road in one of the most difficult stadiums in the nation.
If I'm taking a QB, I'm taking Deshaun 100% of the time. All I'm saying is that there's an argument that Jackson had the better game in the head-to-head matchup.
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Ring of Honor [23354]
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Re: Jason Kirk of SB Nation on Deshaun Watson and the Heisman...
Mar 24, 2017, 1:31 PM
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Louisville had right at a quarter's worth more time of possession. Let that sink in. Including the fourth quarter, yet...somehow...DW4 made it count with the game on the line.
There is singularly zero comparison between DW4 and LJ...zero. Not on the field...the classroom...or in life. Regardless the tough upbringing both went through...DW4 is running a one-man race.
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110%er [8867]
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Re: Jason Kirk of SB Nation on Deshaun Watson and the Heisman...
Mar 24, 2017, 6:05 PM
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How many fumbles did Jackson have that actually cost them their game. They talk about Deshaun's not but Jackson had quite a few fumbles and he actually cost them at least one game
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Orange Blooded [2262]
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Re: Jason Kirk of SB Nation on Deshaun Watson and the Heisman...
Mar 24, 2017, 7:16 PM
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Good thing the heisman "committee" doesn't determine the playoff. Probably would've had:
1.Bama
2.Ole Miss
3.Louisville
4.Oklahoma
Based on FPI or the "eye test"
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