|
Replies: 69
| visibility 1,330
|
All-TigerNet [13118]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14124
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Warren gets Musk’d
Dec 14, 2021, 8:34 PM
|
|
???? Further responding to Warren's accusations that he does not pay taxes, Musk tweeted: "And if you opened your eyes for 2 seconds, you would realize I will pay more taxes than any American in history this year."
"Don’t spend it all at once … oh wait you did already," Musk added in another tweet.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/elon-musk-calls-elizabeth-warren-senator-karen
|
|
|
|
 |
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
It must have been hard for you to choose sides between
Dec 14, 2021, 8:39 PM
|
|
Senator Warren and one of the world's leaders in combating climate change. I admire your courage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13118]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14124
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: It must have been hard for you to choose sides between
Dec 14, 2021, 8:45 PM
|
|
As I’ve said many times, I’ll put my carbon footprint up against anyone. My problem is with climate change hypocrites.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42171]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38261
Joined: 11/30/98
|
"My carbon footprint is smaller than yours, bro."***
Dec 14, 2021, 10:03 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13118]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14124
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: how far is your commute?
Dec 15, 2021, 8:25 AM
|
|
your mom doesn't have an xbox.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: how far is your commute?
Dec 15, 2021, 10:44 AM
|
|
my mom is 80, in a wheelchair, and she lives in a trailer park dude. Make fun of that all you like.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13118]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14124
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: how far is your commute?
Dec 15, 2021, 10:48 AM
|
|
sooooooooooooooo...no Xbox.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: how far is your commute?
Dec 15, 2021, 11:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: how far is your commute? ] |
|
my mom is 80, in a wheelchair, and she lives in a trailer park dude. Make fun of that all you like.
Hell yeah, can I have a turn?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [20541]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11686
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: It must have been hard for you to choose sides between
Dec 14, 2021, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to It must have been hard for you to choose sides between ] |
|
LOL.
That is high irony. I frankly don't care if Musk becomes the world's first trillionaire, as long as he breaks the behemoth up once he dies. (And I suspect he will, the guy's always had a pretty good social conscience.) No one person should have that much power...unless they're utterly disinterested in power, and Musk seems to fit that bill. He's all about the creation aspect of what he does; he just wants to invent stuff and watch it go, the money and the power are nothing but inconveniences and sources of stress for him. Like a lot of geniuses he's kind of a savant, has more than a little Rain Man in him.
And oh, yeah, he's going to break the oil companies. I'm honestly kind of amazed they haven't assassinated him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
100% agree with this assessment of Musk's motivations.
Dec 14, 2021, 8:56 PM
|
|
Money is merely a tool that helps him science more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Did you catch any of his time on Rogan?
Dec 14, 2021, 9:39 PM
|
|
It's pretty incredible. Most CEOs have a decent grasp on their organization structure and function, but Musk runs three highly complex and demanding businesses, and in addition to not only making each one of them do things that independently would still be game-changing...he's doing back of the envelope physics calculations when Rogan asks him a question.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
No but I have heard some tech-y interviews with him before.
Dec 14, 2021, 9:48 PM
|
|
It is indeed amazing. He can shift gears from talking about macroeconomics to environmental science to a manufacturing defect that led to a faulty seat base screw and how they changed the metallurgy of the part to fix it. I can't say I've ever seen him stumped when asked something about one of his businesses, and that's amazing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I pity the folks who can't get past his wealth and
Dec 14, 2021, 10:01 PM
|
|
appreciate what it is to be in the company of pure genius.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
I'm not a huge Rogan fan, not sure why but just doesn't push
Dec 14, 2021, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to Did you catch any of his time on Rogan? ] |
|
the right buttons for me. With that said, I got nothing against him if the topic is good----is the Musk episode worth a listen or is it a lot of Rogan grabassing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: I'm not a huge Rogan fan, not sure why but just doesn't push
Dec 14, 2021, 10:41 PM
|
|
will do
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
uh, ok?***
Dec 14, 2021, 11:09 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: uh, ok?***
Dec 14, 2021, 11:40 PM
|
|
gleaned through your post too quickly and just saw, the musk episode is worth a listen. It is quite good, thanks for inadvertently reccomendeing it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
LOL...makes more sense now. and I'll listen tomorrow.***
Dec 14, 2021, 11:41 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
#2 is the one I caught. I don't recall if I've heard #1 yet
Dec 14, 2021, 11:43 PM
|
|
though that's the one where apparently sparks a giant blunt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I only listen when he's got a guest on that I want to hear.
Dec 14, 2021, 10:43 PM
[ in reply to I'm not a huge Rogan fan, not sure why but just doesn't push ] |
|
I don't know how much would be rehashing what you've already heard from Musk, but I found the second interview to be pretty incredible just listening to him talk about his work. And aliens. Rogan gives him a good bit of the floor so it's not just listening to Rogan wax on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15749]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17372
Joined: 2/1/99
|
This place has gotten supper jabby so I don’t
Dec 16, 2021, 6:52 AM
[ in reply to It must have been hard for you to choose sides between ] |
|
Know how serious anyone is being anymore when they are responding to their political opposition, but just to clarify, why would you call Musk “one of the world's leaders in combating climate change”?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31500]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10207
Joined: 1/28/15
|
Re: Warren gets Musk’d
Dec 14, 2021, 8:52 PM
|
|
Love that guy. Now there’s a billionaire I’d go to rallies to see.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Why do you have an inherent issue with billionaires?***
Dec 14, 2021, 9:40 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Re: Why do you have an inherent issue with billionaires?***
Dec 14, 2021, 9:59 PM
|
|
I have an issue with billionaires not paying their fair share.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
What's fair?***
Dec 14, 2021, 10:01 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Re: Allow me to help
Dec 14, 2021, 10:43 PM
|
|
I appreciate the sentiment. The biggest problem with it is richer people spend less of their income. At least it's an attempt to solve the problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
It's not your money to spend.***
Dec 14, 2021, 10:49 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
They pay based on their consumption. They consume more,
Dec 14, 2021, 11:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Allow me to help ] |
|
thus they pay more. It's extremely fair. That $644M yacht Bill Gates has commissioned? It would have a 23% sales tax.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Re: They pay based on their consumption. They consume more,
Dec 14, 2021, 11:40 PM
|
|
Again, I appreciate the sentiment. The higher your income the less as a percentage you actually spend on consumption. Rich people disproportionately save and invest their money.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
The horror.***
Dec 14, 2021, 11:41 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [20541]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11686
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: Allow me to help
Dec 15, 2021, 8:16 AM
[ in reply to Allow me to help ] |
|
ABSOLUTELY in favor of this. SO much better.
There is no point whatsoever in trying to track down the wealth of billionaires; they hide it, that's what billionaires do.
It also means the stress caused by having illegals jump the border is vastly alleviated. A guy sneaks across the desert in the middle of the night, walks into a gas station, buys a Coke...guess what, the guy's already starting paying his taxes. Welcome to America, brother. Hey, register as a Guest Worker on the way in, that way we know you're here, can maybe even extend you some basic benefits while you're here.
Makes just way too much sense. So of course, we'll never do it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Re: What makes that number fair?***
Dec 14, 2021, 10:39 PM
|
|
Jfc, I'm not here for semantics. There should be progressive taxes. There is such a thing as diminishing value.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
When you throw around words like "fair" as the basis for
Dec 14, 2021, 10:49 PM
|
|
a tax policy, you should expect to be asked to defend it. Especially when Musk argues he's paid more in taxes than anyone else in history, and Warren says it is not enough.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
What's certainly unfair
Dec 14, 2021, 10:59 PM
|
|
Is a billionaire paying less than 70k in income tax between 2015 and 2017 and literally no income tax in 2018.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: What's certainly unfair
Dec 15, 2021, 7:56 AM
|
|
he would pay that in consumption tax on McD's fish fillet sandwiches alone, these guys might be onto something, well, other than the possibility that this would discourage consumer spending and tank the economy. COVID proved that we are fully capable of going an entire year without spending our disposable incomes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24075]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12189
Joined: 9/1/14
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
I enjoyed watching her and her oh-so-effete husband
Dec 14, 2021, 11:06 PM
|
|
wincing while pretending to enjoy a beer. It was like watching a kid forced to eat broccoli.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24075]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12189
Joined: 9/1/14
|
Re: I enjoyed watching her and her oh-so-effete husband
Dec 14, 2021, 11:14 PM
|
|
I believe her people call that Fire Water.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24075]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12189
Joined: 9/1/14
|
Re: What's fair?***
Dec 14, 2021, 10:57 PM
[ in reply to What's fair?*** ] |
|
Maybe 'fair' would be everyone paying the same dollar amount.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Change dollar to % and you have my vote.
Dec 14, 2021, 11:17 PM
|
|
Flat tax or die.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24075]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12189
Joined: 9/1/14
|
Re: Change dollar to % and you have my vote.
Dec 14, 2021, 11:21 PM
|
|
But if we are talking 'fair', it seems the same dollar amount would be what is 'fair'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Fair is subjective. So, if that's your definition, then that
Dec 14, 2021, 11:30 PM
|
|
would be a fair system. To me, the only moral, fair tax system is one in which a citizen can, at any time, know how much they've paid, and how much they have left to pay. Any system that buries the cost of its weight is immoral, and any system that can be gamed by using loopholes and fancy accounting work is unfair (though, Congress owns this failure, not those who are simply playing the game).
Flat tax, no deductions (or, at most, very specific credits for behavior deemed a public good, like adoption), set to a specific amount over the poverty line (or wherever it is determined to draw the line), satisfies these requirements.
A flat tax also comes with the benefit that even fractional increases to the tax rate can immediately be calculated by citizens as to what it will cost them.
My biggest issue with the Fair Tax is that taxes tied to consumption makes it hard to calculate how much you've paid in over time unless you're very careful with tracking spending. At least that is my impression of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
EDIT: Though the Fair Tax has the moral upperhand as it
Dec 14, 2021, 11:32 PM
|
|
isn't a direct tax on income, of which a libertarian might argue is a moral peril.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
counterpoint though on the Fair tax
Dec 14, 2021, 11:35 PM
[ in reply to Fair is subjective. So, if that's your definition, then that ] |
|
sure it might be harder to track what you've paid in tax if you aren't tracking it, but the flat tax is written in stone that you're paying X no matter what. Want to pay less taxes under the fair tax? tighten your belt for a while and consume less/wiser. You can actually get more frugal with what you're paying out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Haven't heard that argument yet, but I dig it.***
Dec 14, 2021, 11:39 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Are you Mormon?
Dec 14, 2021, 11:42 PM
[ in reply to Change dollar to % and you have my vote. ] |
|
Flat tax ignores the diminishing value of money. Poor people spend a higher percent of their income on essentials like food and housing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65832
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Those paying no taxes today that you're referring to?
Dec 14, 2021, 11:46 PM
|
|
The ones below the poverty line? They also pay no taxes under the flat tax, and they get a credited amount every month under the fair tax to negate their tax burden as well.
Your definition of fair doesn't really meet the dictionary's. It seems you're trying to come up with a tax system that is "just" rather than fair, under your worldview.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Re: Those paying no taxes today that you're referring to?
Dec 14, 2021, 11:50 PM
|
|
Yeah, this is where fairtax at least acknowledges the problem. Maybe there's some solution where you can make things like groceries, transportation, and living expenses exempt from taxes. I still like the idea of progressive taxes, but if you can show that tax revenues will go up by eliminating loopholes and simplifying the tax code it's an improvement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Those paying no taxes today that you're referring to?
Dec 15, 2021, 12:09 AM
|
|
How about lower the tax rate by closing loopholes that increase otherwise uncollected revenue, all making it more simple?
Can we all drink to that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Re: Those paying no taxes today that you're referring to?
Dec 15, 2021, 12:15 AM
|
|
Oh #### yeah. Where it gets complicated is how easy it is for rich people to circumvent "income ."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I laid out what I considered to be a fair tax.
Dec 14, 2021, 11:47 PM
[ in reply to Are you Mormon? ] |
|
The "diminishing value of money" is not a part of what I consider fair. Furthermore, if it was, then I draw the line at where income is subject to taxation above where this was an issue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5679]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12163
Joined: 9/28/08
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18024]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30156
Joined: 9/9/06
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: one million seconds is 11 minutes...
Dec 15, 2021, 3:07 PM
|
|
actually, it provides a clear separation between millionaires and billionaires, most people lump them into the same category when making some silly argument about how we should not tax billionaires considerably more. It seems like they have a few months to spare.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Or tax them at the same percentage and, hold on...
Dec 15, 2021, 3:43 PM
|
|
...you get more money from them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: Or tax them at the same percentage and, hold on...
Dec 15, 2021, 7:06 PM
|
|
like that, will ever happen. I could probably live like a billionaire for a few seconds though, just to see what it is like.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Hey man. We had a good left/right bonding
Dec 15, 2021, 8:19 PM
|
|
Moment last night with Cac over a flat tax that would eliminate loopholes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: Hey man. We had a good left/right bonding
Dec 16, 2021, 8:28 AM
|
|
I have a feeling it would raise the taxes on most working Americans.
I am all for eliminating loopholes and simplifying the tax system, but it was our steep progressive tax system in the 50's and 60's that built the middle class in this country. I have a feeling this would hurt more people than it helped and would be wildly unpopular as it would shift more of the tax burden down to the bottom. maybe if the earned income credit was like 25k, then possibly, otherwise a lot of fo people would get hurt, have less disposable income, and negatively affect the economy.
If it did none of these things, I am listening.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I disagree. Closing the loopholes will drive up revenue
Dec 16, 2021, 9:03 AM
|
|
meaning you can keep the overall tax rate down, and then use the starting point for taxable income for adjustments to offset the tax burden on the folks it would hurt the most (e.g. you start paying income tax at $25,000 a year, or something like that). Furthermore, knowing how much you are going to pay each year allows you to plan better, and also makes folks much more aware of the true costs of the government spending they support.
A progressive tax is not fair. A flat tax is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111621]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73767
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: I disagree. Closing the loopholes will drive up revenue
Dec 16, 2021, 10:34 AM
|
|
at 25k, I could see that working. But of course, i will have to see how it would affect me personally for making a decision here. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Old hardcore libertarian ot might have argued that
Dec 16, 2021, 10:40 AM
|
|
a tax system that does not tax the poor is unfair because it's only fair if everybody pays in, but more hippie ot says that there is a social good in not trying to draw blood from a stone, and the greater pursuit is the flat tax itself. If raising the line for taxable income at or somewhat above the poverty line makes that happen, it's more than an acceptable compromise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5679]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12163
Joined: 9/28/08
|
Re: Warren gets Musk’d
Dec 15, 2021, 8:57 AM
|
|
Most politicians and most certainly the woke democrats are both stupid and liars. Great combo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 69
| visibility 1,330
|
|
|
50
