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Ultimate Tiger [36153]
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VP VANCE ON ENDING UKRAINE WAR
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:17 PM
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JD responds to pathetic attempt by a UK cockwomble to manipulate the US to do their bidding.
This is moralistic garbage, which is unfortunately the rhetorical currency of the globalists because they have nothing else to say.
For three years, President Trump and I have made two simple arguments: first, the war wouldn’t have started if President Trump was in office; second, that neither Europe, nor the Biden administration, nor the Ukrainians had any pathway to victory. This was true three years ago, it was true two years ago, it was true last year, and it is true today.
And for three years, the concerns of people who were obviously right were ignored. What is Niall’s actual plan for Ukraine? Another aid package? Is he aware of the reality on the ground, of the numerical advantage of the Russians, of the depleted stock of the Europeans or their even more depleted industrial base?
Instead, he quotes from a book about George HW Bush from a different historical period and a different conflict. That’s another currency of these people: reliance on irrelevant history.
President Trump is dealing with reality, which means dealing with facts. And here are some facts:
Number one, while our Western European allies’ security has benefitted greatly from the generosity of the United States, they pursue domestic policies (on migration and censorship) that offend the sensibilities of most Americans and defense policies that assume continued over-reliance.
Number two, Russians have a massive numerical advantage in manpower and weapons in Ukraine, and that advantage will persist regardless of further Western aid packages. Again, the aid is *currently* flowing.
Number three, the United States retains substantial leverage over both parties to the conflict.
Number four, ending the conflict requires talking to the people involved in starting it and maintaining it.
Number five, the conflict has placed–and continues to place–stress on tools of American statecraft, from military stockpiles to sanctions (and so much else). We believe the continued conflict is bad for Russia, bad for Ukraine, and bad for Europe. But most importantly, it is bad for the United States.
Given the above facts, we must pursue peace, and we must pursue it now. President Trump ran on this, he won on this, and he is right about this. It is lazy, ahistorical nonsense to attack as “appeasement” every acknowledgment that America’s interest must account for the realities of the conflict.
That interest–not moralisms or historical illiteracy–will guide President Trump’s policy in the weeks to come.
And thank God for that.
https://twitter.com/JDVance/status/1892569791140946073
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Clemson Icon [27586]
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Re: VP VANCE ON ENDING UKRAINE WAR
Feb 23, 2025, 10:20 PM
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Whatever.
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Athletic Dir [1188]
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Re: VP VANCE ON ENDING UKRAINE WAR
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:20 PM
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To turn his phrase: JD Vance is amoralistic garbage. But at least he's not a rapist like the men he works with.
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Rival Killer [2910]
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JD saw his dad naked one time and got a bone***
Feb 23, 2025, 10:22 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [36153]
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Re: JD saw his dad naked one time and got a bone***
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:26 PM
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Face it, yall got nothing and you would have been better off not showing your ignorance and filthy insult.
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Rival Killer [2910]
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u think I read your whole post? lol, i saw that nerd was the topic and
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:27 PM
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just rattled that off the top of my dome. like JD used to rattle his Dad's dome.
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Ultimate Tiger [34987]
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Re: VP VANCE ON ENDING UKRAINE WAR
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:25 PM
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The Tnet Demorons will continue to blather insults and deny the truth as they always do.
Scroo 'em. DA's.
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Orange Elite [5487]
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The Ukraine is the perfect example that the modern Republican Party
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:25 PM
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doesn't have any sincerely held beliefs.
It's absolutely wild to think an American would ever argue it's better to live safe than die free.
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Clemson Icon [27586]
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Re: The Ukraine is the perfect example that the modern Republican Party
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:28 PM
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JD Vance will say anything. The part where he says it wouldn't have happened if Trump had been president is ludicrous. He will say anything.
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Orange Elite [5487]
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I mean they're not wrong that it wouldn't have happened
Feb 23, 2025, 10:36 PM
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because Trump would have conceded to all of Russia's demands.
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Clemson Icon [27586]
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Re: I mean they're not wrong that it wouldn't have happened
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:38 PM
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Definitely. Ukraine wouldn't even exist right now if Trump had been president.
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CU Medallion [18701]
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Re: I mean they're not wrong that it wouldn't have happened
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Feb 24, 2025, 7:44 AM
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Excuse me, your ignorance shows again. If Trump had not provided Ukraine weapons to support their military growth during his first term (which had been refused by Obama), Ukraine would not have been able to hold out until someone could wake up "Sleepy Joe and his band of fairies" to get Ukraine more aid and weapons after the Russian war started. Then the warmongers stepped up, with NO desire to ever end the war which created the current money and weapons pit.
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110%er [3974]
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Orange Beast [6419]
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Re: I mean they're not wrong that it wouldn't have happened
Feb 24, 2025, 6:10 AM
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He did. They were fighting in Ukraine throughout Trumps entire 1st term and he did NOTHING to stop it. You tried. 😆
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CU Medallion [18701]
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Re: I mean they're not wrong that it wouldn't have happened
Feb 24, 2025, 7:47 AM
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You lie again Birm. Trump gave Ukraine weapons after Obama refused to. Tell the whole truth.
BTW, how many illegals are you supporting and living with you now?
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Orange Elite [5487]
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TigerNet Icon [154205]
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Ultimate Tiger [34987]
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Re: The Ukraine is the perfect example that the modern Republican Party
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Feb 23, 2025, 10:29 PM
[ in reply to The Ukraine is the perfect example that the modern Republican Party ] |
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But you and your ilk argue that it's better to finance the genocide of an entire country to prop up your personal moral virtue signaling.
You lefties are DISGUSTING.
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Clemson Icon [27586]
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Re: The Ukraine is the perfect example that the modern Republican Party
Feb 23, 2025, 10:31 PM
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Huh? What are you rambling about? What genocide are we financing?
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Campus Hero [13726]
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Clemson Icon [27586]
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Dynasty Maker [3351]
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Clemson Icon [24022]
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I mean even Vance is doing it, so does it surprise you that his minions are too?***
Feb 24, 2025, 8:54 AM
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Clemson Icon [24022]
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Campus Hero [13557]
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Vance seems really good. Too bad he's another Obama.***
Feb 23, 2025, 11:34 PM
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CU Medallion [18701]
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Re: Vance seems really good. Too bad he's another Obama.***
Feb 24, 2025, 7:49 AM
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Does that mean Vance is the future POTUS for 8 years?
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Ring of Honor [22558]
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Paw Master [17045]
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What is your solution?***
Feb 24, 2025, 5:18 AM
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Paw Master [16506]
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Re: What is your solution?***
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Feb 24, 2025, 6:24 AM
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There’s the what and there’s the how. I totally agree that Ukraine can’t achieve victory short of direct NATO military involvement.
I think it would be madness for NATO to enter into this conflict. WWIII would quite likely be the outcome of such a move.
The reality on the ground supports the initiative of talks aimed at bringing this war started unequivocally by Russia to an end.
However, the manner in which Trump and Vance are approaching this by trash talking Ukraine and our allies seems to be an effort to end this war ASAP with terms that most likely will favor Russia more than Ukraine.
Ending this war will require some concessions by Ukraine to Russia with hopefully NATO members of Europe providing primary security of Ukraine after the war ends.
There is nothing wrong with ultimately requiring our European allies to be much more heavily involved in their own defense, the same with Japan, S Korea, etc. as WWII has been over almost 80 years and the Korean War over 50 years, but that process along with ending the Ukraine war must be a gradual well thought out process conducted mostly in private with our allies rather than in public with rhetoric that certainly gives comfort to our adversaries.
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Paw Master [17045]
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The reason for the rhetoric now is that
Feb 24, 2025, 6:30 AM
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the same outcome could have been had thousands of lives ago; why didn't it happen?
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Paw Master [16506]
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Re: The reason for the rhetoric now is that
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Feb 24, 2025, 7:25 AM
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The end game was never explained by Biden or Blinken. Was the goal to restore eastern Ukraine, eastern Ukraine and Crimea to Ukraine or to accept something less?
The Ukrainians have been provided enough armaments and accepted many deaths to essentially have achieved a stalemate which is slowly going against them based on manpower.They have fought bravely, but they are not close to pushing Russia out of Ukraine and that will not change going forward.
For that reason, Trump should be pushing to help the Ukrainians get the very best deal possible, not to rush this through and give Russia, the aggressor, the best deal.
What purpose has it served for Trump to state that Russia started this war?, to call Zelensky a dictator?, to poke fun at him for being a former comedian? What purpose did it serve to threaten NATO members we would not defend them unless they kicked in more money and perhaps would let Putin move on them?
Words from a President do matter. I agree all NATO members should shoulder more of the financial burden for their own defense, but publicly critiquing our long held allies while bragging about how well Trump gets along with Putin isn't a wise approach in my opinion.
Breaking all the china to change the dynamic may be "exciting" and a quicker approach, but it is not the prudent choice.
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Clemson Icon [24022]
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Russian propagandist
Feb 24, 2025, 7:31 AM
[ in reply to Just word salad on trying to justify cowardly surrender at Putins feet ] |
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Serious question: why is Vance parroting Russian lies brought up by fake online Russian news accounts like "Washington News"?
Are they just that stupid or complicit? What has Putin promised this admin?
Where are the Ronald Regan Republicans?
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Hall of Famer [8158]
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Re: VP VANCE ON ENDING UKRAINE WAR
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Feb 24, 2025, 7:52 AM
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Its odd how our European "allies" seem to hate the US except when it expects us to fight its wars for them so they can continue to live in leftist fantasy land where free speech doesn't exist, they can buy energy freely from their supposed enemy, and they are allowed to have militaries that for the most part may as well not even exist.
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Dynasty Maker [3351]
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What wars are we currently fighting for them?
Feb 24, 2025, 9:45 AM
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I mean, we're not fighting the Ukraine war. Ukraine is fighting its own war. Our soldiers are not in the war.
We're supplying them with military & humanitarian aid. The rest of Europe is as well.
Do you guys wake up every morning and get a feed straight from the Kremlin before you post?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [109356]
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Well, we have certainly chunked morality out the window, he's correct.
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Feb 24, 2025, 8:35 AM
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####, I'm not sure anyone would even honor a "deal" with Trump. He doesn't honor his own deals. He made this deal once, in his "good name" and that of our "great" nation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwIZRpRnV3E
And has since chunked USMCA out the window. So what "deal" is worth the signature of Mr. Art of the Deal? No one will trust or honor a deal with this man. Starting with out three biggest trading partners. Why would an enemy (OR ALLY) on the battlefield accept any military "deal" with a dishonorable man? I refuse to extend that to a dishonorable nation, but I will stick with man, as he's demonstrated that. Unfortunately that now extends to our national honor and reputation among EVERYONE, friend and foe.
https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/article/55266455/usmca-and-the-challenge-of-trumps-tariffs
As for the comparison......it is interesting they bring up Kuwait. In that war, we tried diplomacy, it failed. Then the US, under an HONRABLE George HW Bush, gathered a coalition of allied nations to execute the war and liberate Kuwait from a tyrant. Below is a list of those nations in the US coalition against Iraq:
Primary countries:
United States
United Kingdom
France
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Kuwait (in exile)
Other contributors:
Argentina
Australia
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Belgium
Canada
Czechoslovakia
Denmark
Afghan mujahideen[1]
Germany
Greece
Honduras
Hungary
Italy
Japan
Luxembourg
Morocco
Netherlands
New Zealand
Niger
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Singapore
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Syria
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
Such a war, such a deal, such an alliance, will never happen with Trump. Once you've been shown you can't be trusted, something odd happens. NO ONE TRUSTS YOU. He can blame Biden and dems all he wants, HE BREAKS HIS OWN agreements. His OWN WORD. And this dishonors OUR NATION by extension. What good is any agreement with the United States, if TRUMP (alone) can retract, break, or just ignore a prior agreement? Why bother?
Russia stands on a lonely island in the circle of world powers BECAUSE no one TRUSTS Putin. So no one makes "deals" with Putin, because everyone knows as soon as Putin sees the deal as not serving his interest, he will toss it in the garbage. That's the single biggest barrier to Russia's prosperity. There is no "deal" to be made with a dishonest man, or governemnt. Dem/pub/tyrant/king/sultan/dear leader/or ayatollah or anyone else.
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Tiger Titan [49183]
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Re: VP VANCE ON ENDING UKRAINE WAR
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Feb 24, 2025, 8:36 AM
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TigerNet Icon [154205]
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"Number three, the United States retains substantial leverage over both parties
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Feb 24, 2025, 9:16 AM
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to the conflict, and will only use that leverage to elicit the worst deal possible from Ukraine and literally zero concessions from Russia and Putin, because why am I supposed to hate Russia anyway?"
There, fixed it for you and Vance.
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110%er [3720]
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Re: VP VANCE ON ENDING UKRAINE WAR
Feb 24, 2025, 3:23 PM
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In speaking on our behalf, he suggest that we are all offended by their decisions as sovereign nations on migration and speech law.
I believe this is the first time I've heard that Americans were offended by these things, so unless someone can show me the evidence of our sensibilities being offended by their policies over the years, this is a complete fabrication, which means he is a devious, snakey, rat #######.
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Replies: 37
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