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Topic: Shot-gun on the goal line
Replies: 37   Last Post: Sep 20, 2021, 8:51 AM by: Injun Tiger
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Replies: 37  

Shot-gun on the goal line

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 10:32 PM

After the Skalski stoned Tech on the goal line, we went shotgun and handed the ball off to Shipley who barely gained a yard.

Curious to know what people think of this idea. Not that it mattered in the situation, up eight with 10 seconds, but why not go with DJ under center?

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line

[3]
Sep 19, 2021, 10:36 PM

had shiply not fumbled the play would have worked, and GT was out of time-outs. And this is not the first time we have been caught in Goal line situations without plays from under center. We used to gripe when we were on the one-yard line in scoring position, and Spence would run out of the Shotgun during Watson's freshman year because he had not practiced taking snaps under center.

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Morris not Spence. Center snapped ball over

[3]
Sep 19, 2021, 10:46 PM

Watson's head inside 2 I think @ FSU in 2014. This caused the uproar.

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Spence wasn’t our OC when Watson was here.***

[1]
Sep 20, 2021, 12:25 AM



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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Spence wasn’t our OC when Watson was here.***


Sep 20, 2021, 6:41 AM

that is who I meant.

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You're right that the play worked, except for the fumble.


Sep 20, 2021, 12:52 AM

The rest of it, not so much ??

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line

[1]
Sep 20, 2021, 1:42 AM

@Tigerbalm1 Watson never played under Spence. Spence was gone Day 1 under Dabo. Am I missing something in your comments?

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line


Sep 20, 2021, 7:26 AM

Had somebody been thinking to begin with we would not have been trying to pull GT off-sides with only 15 seconds to play. Same play (without that stupidity causing the loss of yardage - though small as it was) would have seen the ball fumbled and recovered outside of the endzone. No safety.

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John 3:16; 14:1-6


Re: Shot-gun on the goal line

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 10:45 PM

Thought the same thing. DJ under center...just push forward...forward progress would be in field of play...game over. What was the logic of trying to get GT to jump on defense...did we really need the 5 yards rather that lose 1/2 the distance penalty? What if Shipley does not recover fumble for a safety an GT recovers...gets the 2 point conversion...I could still be there? Never was a football coach...I was just wondering.

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line

[2]
Sep 19, 2021, 10:48 PM

Did the idea of DJ hurling the ball as high and as far as he could to waste the time not come into consideration?

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No. But they are the experts.

[2]
Sep 19, 2021, 10:50 PM

Dabo considered running around and then taking a safety instead of throwing it away. Because, reasons.

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line


Sep 20, 2021, 12:28 AM

Was a thought of mine. We used to do it in BB , throw it to the other end . . not out of bounds.

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line


Sep 20, 2021, 8:42 AM

That's what I said too, and then realized it would have been intentional grounding. And if they'd told him to scramble around to burn a few seconds before throwing it as high as he could, there's always a chance he would have tripped or been blindside tackled.

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Yah, not a good look


Sep 19, 2021, 11:05 PM

It doesn't inspire confidence, but I can see the reasoning if you know your guys are gassed, can't push any more.

Even still, for some reason, just doesn't inspire much confidence.

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Again, the formation and the playcall worked just fine.


Sep 20, 2021, 12:56 AM

We got a yard and the game should have been over.

The play went awry on the fumble. Had nothing to do with the formation.

Personally I'd prefer rushing the QB for a "sneak " (not really), but a fumble could occur in that play too.

In any event, all the gnashing of teeth based on the shotgun is moot and unnecessary. The play worked. The fumble was the issue.

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Go shotgun, have the QB stand at the back of the endzone


Sep 19, 2021, 10:50 PM

and do nothing for a couple of seconds. Once a GT player breaks through, run to the far corner of the endzone either to the 1 yard line if you can make it or out the back corner for a safety and hope you've killed the clock. If you made it to the 1 yard line and out bounds with time still on the clock, just do it again to kill the second or 2 you have left and give the safety.

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Re: Go shotgun, have the QB stand at the back of the endzone

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 10:52 PM

There was a number of options. The one we chose was a great choice except we fumbled the ball. Any of the other options would have been fine as long as we don’t fumble. The formation was just noise

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Exactly. Hopefully people will ultimately get it.***


Sep 20, 2021, 1:07 AM



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I got a good playcall.


Sep 20, 2021, 12:58 AM

Don't fumble the one yard gain.

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It was the dumbest call I’ve seen in a long time. What was

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 10:57 PM

up with the delay of game before that?

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There's something in these hills.


Re: It was the dumbest call I’ve seen in a long time. What was

[1]
Sep 19, 2021, 11:17 PM

Not sure what the deal was at the end of the game. They seemed to be in another orbit.

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Re: It was the dumbest call I’ve seen in a long time. What was

[2]
Sep 19, 2021, 11:18 PM

Trying to draw them offsides, so we could then snap (while still in the shotgun) and kneel the ball.

SMH...

We were on the 2 yard line. Snap the ball and fall forward. Game over.

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I have never seen a deliberate delay of game with that


Sep 20, 2021, 6:07 AM

field position. Unreal. You’re exactly right. Fall forward and the game is over.

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There's something in these hills.


On TV, you could here Dabo say "Snap the Ball!"***


Sep 20, 2021, 8:51 AM



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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line

emoji_events [5]
Sep 19, 2021, 11:22 PM

2 million a year and doesn’t know DJ could rocket it 3 times, 40 yard throws OOB to burn the clock. Announcers getting 200k per year had to tell him. Sad

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Interesting idea...


Sep 20, 2021, 1:05 AM

I wonder why NOBODY HAS EVER DONE THAT??

You ever think of drawing up a playbook?

Look, the play worked and the game should have been over. The only reason we're talking about it is because we fumbled after the "game-ending" gain.

It wouldn't have been much of a "sneak", but I'd prefer the QB pushing forward next time. Thing is, you can't take into account a fumble on that play either. If he would've fumbled everyone would be b!tching saying DJ shouldn't have been carrying the ball there after 2 fumbles in the game.

But the key point is that the play worked just fine.

I've never seen anyone throw it deep 3 times, well, maybe because someone can play deep and intercept it?

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line


Sep 20, 2021, 12:22 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yup

I think the shotgun is a great idea ...... if DJ just throws a pass as far as he can throw it to run time off the clock. Handing the ball off was plain stupid!


Message was edited by: TigerLinks®


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Re: Shot-coaching***


Sep 20, 2021, 12:24 AM



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Like you said, we gained a yard and the game should've been over.


Sep 20, 2021, 12:50 AM

Same outcome as say, a QB sneak.

The difference was the fumble. The fumble had nothing to do with the formation or the playcall.

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OK... when Chad Morris brought this offense to Clemson

[2]
Sep 20, 2021, 4:01 AM

our QB "sneak"/short yardage play became a shotgun snap with an immediate QB run right up the A or B gap. Tajh Boyd probably ran it the most in those early years with some success in short yardage situations because he was a fairly strong, stocky guy who had decent enough speed and defenses were still unsure what we were doing because of all of Morris' pre-snap eye candy.

However, as the years have progressed and defenses started to know our short yardage tendencies, Deshaun Watson, Kelly Bryant and Trevor Lawrence all struggled on our shotgun QB "sneak" and in most cases got hammered by a defender (usually the LB) running full speed upon the snap into the gap. DW4, KB, and TL were all fast and agile guys but didn't have the size to blow through those gummed up gaps and were probably less than 50% successful when they ran our QB "sneak" play in any given short yardage situation.

I will still argue with any coach that if we need a yard or less for a critical first down, score, or whatever else, it makes no sense to snap the ball 5 yards backwards to our QB to either run it himself or hand it off to a RB to run right up the A/B gap. That extra time/distance for that shotgun snap gives a defensive LB's time to go full speed into the gaps while some extra defender on the outside (saftey or other DB) runs full speed from the edges to grab the QB/RB and pull them backwards as they get stood up in the gap. Does Clemson make these shotgun short yardage plays work - sometimes but for years in the most critical, game impacting short yardage situations it sure feels like we struggle with it. When we don't make it, we normally blame our OL for not getting any push off the line when in reality it's because the defense knew our tendency and had the time to hit all the gaps at full speed putting us at a disadvantage.

Here's the deal - we have a 250lb QB and a 315lb Center and it makes ZERO sense not to have a routine/well practiced under-center QB sneak package for short yardage. Have that giant QB get a quick snap, secure the ball and put his chest on the Centers backside and the two of them move straight forward as fast and hard as they can - takes all of a half a second to do that. It's simple momentum physics - it is darned hard for a defense to gain enough counter-force to stop that combined QB+C 515lbs of force rapidly moving a ball forward upon snap before their forward momentum/progress gains a yard.

The traditional under-center QB sneak is not a hard offensive play to design or practice to perfection. There is simply no good, logical reason we do not run this other than our coaches being stuck in a mindset that "we are not an under-center team" and that is not "who we are". As a result of this mindset we do exactly the same thing we have done for years with defenses knowing with 75% certainty what is coming. Our lack of offensive agility, imagination and innovation in recent years is staggering and to a degree coaching malpractice.

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line


Sep 20, 2021, 5:36 AM

When our game plan is to try to draw the opposing defense offsides, rather than come up with a play to gain a few yards........that tells you all you need to know about the timid, conservative play calling mindset of our OC. That sounds like something a Peewee League coach might try......and a very shy one at that!

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Until that play, the only playcall I remember


Sep 20, 2021, 6:54 AM

disagreeing with in Dabo's tenure was the pass on the goal line against Pitt that got intercepted when a field goal would have put us up by 11 points.

The heave downfield has been discussed (Tajh did that once). But TBH, not sure I trust DJU to get the ball beyond the defense.

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Watson did it against OK in Miami as well***


Sep 20, 2021, 8:45 AM



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Until that play, the only playcall I remember


Sep 20, 2021, 6:54 AM

disagreeing with in Dabo's tenure was the pass on the goal line against Pitt that got intercepted when a field goal would have put us up by 11 points.

The heave downfield has been discussed (Tajh did that once). But TBH, not sure I trust DJU to get the ball beyond the defense.

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It was an unnecessary, risky, and ill-advised decision.


Sep 20, 2021, 7:53 AM

Line-up under center, take the snap, take a knee, and the game is over.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: Shot-gun on the goal line


Sep 20, 2021, 8:09 AM

It’s completely ridiculous and reckless in that situation!!!

1) if you are a majority shotgun team then there is a rationale doing it during the regular game going in from the one and coming out from the one because you have your entire playbook to make calls
From … you may throw it deep or run the option or sprint out pass etc…I’m old school so I still don’t like it then or when on the goal line going I but there is a rationale for it I’m today’s game so it’s at least sound!!!

2) if you are taking a knee at the end of the game and are in the middle of the field or at least far enough out that it’s not an issue then it’s okay also…I still don’t like it because I’m old school but it at least has merit and rationale and is sound!!!

3) coming out from the one and all you have to do is take a snap and get on the ground Amd you win the game … THERE IS NO RATIONALE TO DO IT IN THIS SITIATION!!! IT IS NOT SOUND FOOTBALL!!! The reason is that you don’t have your entire playbook to run…all you have is a handoff 5 yards deep in the backfield which requires three excuted exchanges…qb has to secure the snap, qb/rb exchange has to go good and rb can’t fumb!e … other possible okay is qb takes snap Amd runs straight ahead, which is safer than handing it off, but there are still 2 security issues (catching the snap and not fumbling when you are hit) … and either way the qb or rb is going to be hit running out from 5 yards deep!!!

This is why the only SOUND choice is to get under center, take the snap, and fall down!!! There is one security issue and that’s simply getting the snap clean!!! There is no hit and certainly no hit with anyone getting 5 yards of steam built up!!!

Football is a game of odds, coaches make decisions based on odds and percentages all of the time both defensively and offensively!!! There are only two ways to lose the game … fumble in the endzone and GT recovers…get a safety, kickoff and GT runs it back for a TD!!! The odds of a win fumbling a snap under center or losing two yards on a sneak or fall down are much less over the history of the game compared to a running back fumbling a ball
Or a team losing two yards by handing the ball off 5 yards deep in the backfield!!!

This is very simple and not rocket science!!! You’re telling me we are dealing with 4/5 str recruits and paying coaches millions of dollars and we have a spring practice and players practice on their own all summer and we have fall camp Amd we can’t take one snap from under center and fall on the ground in order to win a game or a championship??? It is completely ridiculous and an uneccessary risk Iah!!!

And don’t tell me, well it’s what we do…we also run a spread punt in regular situations but I guarantee you that when we are putting from our own one we do a right punt formation because it’s a special situation that we practice all spring and fall camp!!! The situation Saturday night is also a special situation that needs to be addressed the same way!!! Period!!!

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"Not what we do" says coach about QB under center - ugh!


Sep 20, 2021, 8:14 AM

We need some more open-minded common sense. Rushing from shotgun to undercenter and then a QB sneak is very effective in several games I have seen in college and pros.

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Re: Shot-gun on the goal line


Sep 20, 2021, 8:46 AM

I was incredulous when they lined up at shotgun. All it takes is a linebacker crashing the line to stop the runner early and have his knee hit the ground in the end zone. Even though the play "worked" as designed until the fumble (which I still haven't seen), Shipley barely made it half a yard out of the end zone. He was, frankly, lucky that forward progress carried him that far.

OTOH, a linebacker could have similarly crashed through and stopped a QB trying to push forward, so maybe they figured a running back with a head of steam behind him would have more luck getting out of the end zone if a defender met him early. It's the only thing I can come up with.

Personally I would not have been opposed to them sending one receiver streaking down each sideline and just have DJ hurl it in their general direction (to avoid the intentional grounding) as high and as slow as possible, but also intentionally out of bounds. And then do it again if necessary.

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