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Heisman Winner [119758]
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Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 5:08 PM
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??*
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Lot o points [181009]
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But we feel so much better without Trump***
Jun 13, 2021, 5:33 PM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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"...to not work." But yeah.***
Jun 13, 2021, 5:37 PM
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 5:40 PM
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If you’re really interested in the lumber price surge (that peaked last month and is improving), check out CanFor, the closure of southern US lumber mills, consolidation of the lumber industry, tariffs placed on Canadian SFP by the last admin, and the commodities traders that really caused the price surge. Or go back further and look at PNW tree-huggers killed the US timber industry if you want to blame liberals.
Pro tip- it’s not because people got stimulus checks.
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Lot o points [181009]
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Try finding someone to drive a garbage truck.***
Jun 13, 2021, 5:44 PM
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Recruit [91]
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You obviously don't know how much those guys make***
Jun 13, 2021, 8:18 PM
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Legend [15749]
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How much?***
Jun 14, 2021, 10:18 AM
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Recruit [91]
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Glassdoor says $49,345 base
Jun 14, 2021, 7:37 PM
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More senior guys who get a good route with all dumpsters can break six figures after overtime. CDL drivers are always in demand.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Agree with most of that, but stimmis played a huge part.
Jun 13, 2021, 5:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks, Dems! ] |
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6 or 8 Trillion newly printed dollars dumped into a "we forbid you to go to work" economy had to go somewhere. They have gone to equities and real estate, including home improvement. And now they are causing price increases everywhere.
Janet "print more money" Yellen claimed for a while that the inflation we all saw wasn't happening, but even she now says it's happening. But not beyond "the end of the year". Riiiight.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Agree with most of that, but stimmis played a huge part.
Jun 13, 2021, 6:26 PM
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Southern US saw mills were closed in anticipation of the housing slump... that never came. It’s not just lumber. The resin that OSB is glued together with froze in its pipes in Houston refineries. You can’t get windows for 12 weeks. Trusses are being rationed and ordered out two months in advance because builders had to change how they built floors. You can’t hardly find a bucket of flat white paint.
It’s wild times in the home building industry right now, unprecedented in my old man’s 40 year career. Fortunately, builders are beating the commodities traders now by sitting on their lots until their margins can rebound.
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All-TigerNet [11640]
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We’ve been doing projects to expand Great Southern Wood
Jun 13, 2021, 6:44 PM
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For the last 2 years and it’s been ramping up. Even during COVID.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Agree. The lumber thing was caused by some specific things,
Jun 13, 2021, 6:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: Agree with most of that, but stimmis played a huge part. ] |
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which you have noted. The market will work those out. As a 6 or 7 year old I wandered in my pajamas into a cocktail party my parents were hosting - the well dressed, well behaved martini party is a lost art, imo - and the discussion was about some some similar shortage in the 70's. I heard my dad, on the other side of the room, say, "Don't worry about it. A couple of guys named Cohen will figure out how to get the stuff to us." He was talking to a guy named Ackerman, my friend's dad, so religion wasn't the issue. Yes, the market will work out the shortages, and where money is to be made, someone will figure it out. And fast. My mom sent me back to bed.
The price of lumber will come down. But not to where it was. The addition of $30,000 for every man, woman and child of debt financed dollars into the economy is causing price inequities that a few more lumber mills can't address.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Agree. The lumber thing was caused by some specific things,
Jun 13, 2021, 6:54 PM
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Hahaha exactly, the guys wearing green visors who go to church on Saturday
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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They make the world go 'round.***
Jun 13, 2021, 6:56 PM
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110%er [5694]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 5:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks, Dems! ] |
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CharlestonTiger15
Goodness, your head is about 10,000 feet in the sand. Make all the ridiculous assertions that the echo chamber is telling you, but they still are not true.
Tariffs from the Trump administration don't have chit to do with this.
Your response and the tens of millions that would invoke a similar response is one reason the country is headed for a dumpster fire.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 6:09 PM
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You’re wrong
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Heisman Winner [119758]
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Nope, yur wrong….***
Jun 13, 2021, 8:03 PM
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110%er [9036]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 7:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks, Dems! ] |
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canadian companies own our sawmills in the US, OSB too, no point shipping south and make your own price drop
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All-In [42197]
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For someone who...
Jun 14, 2021, 8:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks, Dems! ] |
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Watches nothing but Tucker and doesn't read one ounce of objective material elsewhere--and who wants people of different political views than him imprisoned--, you sure do like to use the term "echo chamber" a lot.
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 6:16 PM
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Lmao dude. Yes, it happened, and it drove big changes in saw mill and timber operation ownership in the states. This isn’t a liberal position. Defending Trump though, doing the hard work. Someone has to do it.
Sorry, ignore any nuanced take on an issue, back to the regularly scheduled Twitter one liners from “The Five” derp fest.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 6:26 PM
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 6:28 PM
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The cost and shortage in building materials is more nuanced than “dems suck and ruined the economy.”
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 6:32 PM
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All-In [31520]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 6:33 PM
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I’m not saying it’s just tariffs. I’m not saying it’s just tariffs. I never said it was just tariffs. It’s not just tariffs. It’s not Trumps fault. I don’t think it’s Trump’s fault. It’s not just tariffs.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 6:41 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97751]
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Lumber was a ####storm before the pandemic.
Jun 13, 2021, 8:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks, Dems! ] |
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Which made it one of the worst to try and recover. Been selling trees in Colleton County for 6+ years now, and not getting crap for them. Same now, with plywood costing way more.
Mill consolidations, Canadians buying the mills, investing and making them efficient, driving mom and pop out of business, makes it hard to be flexible.
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Legend [18026]
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Their memes and echo chambers say differently
Jun 13, 2021, 8:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks, Dems! ] |
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and that's as far as they will look into the issue, so don't waste your time.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Their memes and echo chambers say differently
Jun 13, 2021, 8:12 PM
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Legend [18026]
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lol.***
Jun 13, 2021, 9:19 PM
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Heisman Winner [111709]
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Re: Thanks, Dems!
Jun 13, 2021, 6:02 PM
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meh, future generations will live in prefab housing. You should what they are doing with single wides these days.
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Lot o points [181009]
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Pallet tiny homes***
Jun 13, 2021, 6:04 PM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Point for historical accuracy. When the left takes over that
Jun 13, 2021, 6:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thanks, Dems! ] |
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is what has happened. Soviet cinder block housing; let the good times roll,
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Heisman Winner [111709]
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Re: Point for historical accuracy. When the left takes over that
Jun 13, 2021, 6:24 PM
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what you are referring to is a period of post-war architecture called Brutalism, popular in pre soviet Eastern Europe and Russia and was a result of having the poor , and too many people displaced by the war. And technically it was all poured in place concrete. We did the same thing here, more so with our government buildings. Johnstone Hall is another great example of this style, completely stripped down and utilitarian, and not meant to last. They poured those slabs on the ground and then used hydraulic jacks to lift them into place. You just can not build any quicker and cheaper than that.
The point being, we need to start getting creative again with our emerging building construction technology, cause it has not changed much in close to a century.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Point for historical accuracy. When the left takes over that
Jun 13, 2021, 6:56 PM
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Heisman Winner [111709]
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Re: Point for historical accuracy. When the left takes over that
Jun 13, 2021, 7:15 PM
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In the US it is more an issue of the younger generations not being able to afford "traditional housing" due to shortages, increased demand, wage stagnation, and rising debt obligations. It is our future, unfortunately. In developing nations, you will see a lot of cool techs that will probably not pick up steam in the US right away, even though they would be affordable and practical solutions. 3D printed concrete domes are a great example, there is almost zero labor cost and they are structurally perfect when it comes to resisting their own weight and shedding cat 5 winds.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Point for historical accuracy. When the left takes over that
Jun 13, 2021, 10:35 PM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Yes. We do have our McMansions, and there is no mitigation
Jun 13, 2021, 7:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Point for historical accuracy. When the left takes over that ] |
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for that. They are what they are. I hate 'em.
But anyone, anywhere, can say, "No, I'm going to do this instead." And that actually happens a lot more than the McMansions. We certainly did. Photos upon request: the best 1000 sq/ft, 1 & 1, with additional bd/bth above the garage, you ever saw.
There is more variety and excellence in the US - admittedly taken along with the social flattening of consumerism, which itself is an individual choice - than the world has ever seen. That is simply observable fact.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Request #1... Sincerely interested.***
Jun 14, 2021, 10:06 AM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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I totally agree with your last sentence. Like, I wish I
Jun 13, 2021, 7:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Point for historical accuracy. When the left takes over that ] |
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could give you 100 upvotes. Not that you care about those. But still.
But Soviet architecture from the 50's though the 90's ... c'mon man. Concrete block is what collective ownership and planning gets you.
But unbridled consumerism gets you McMansions. Which one is more soul robbing? I wouldn't bet on either. But with the latter I can decide, "No, I don't like that. I'm going to to this." And I did.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I totally agree with your last sentence. Like, I wish I
Jun 13, 2021, 7:18 PM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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'Zactly.
Jun 13, 2021, 7:23 PM
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It is well known that the waiting list for a car in 70's USSR was about 10 years. You didn't go to the dealership and buy one: you applied to your party boss at your job.
So a guy goes to his boss and says, "I want to buy a car." "Okay, down payment is 2000 rubles today, car will be here in 10 years." "What day of the week is that?" "What does that matter 10 years from now?" "Well, the plumber is coming on a Tuesday." Ha.
Or as one Car&Track guy said in the 70's, on a visit to Moscow: "A guy could stand on a street corner with a screwdriver and timing light and make a million dollars."
A point to anyone who knows what a timing light is. If you owned an MGB in 1970, you knew.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Had a Mark III Mini Cooper in the late '70s... Same gig.***
Jun 14, 2021, 10:33 AM
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Heisman Winner [111709]
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Au contraire. There are 60's concrete boxes everywhere.
Jun 13, 2021, 7:25 PM
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Been there. Seen 'em. Facia is falling off all of them.
And of course that begs the question: "Stop building? In the 50's? Stopped? They were that broke, the society of The New Soviet Man?" Surely not. Say it ain't so.
Message was edited by: CUintulsa®
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Heisman Winner [111709]
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technically they are far better off than we are.
Jun 13, 2021, 10:22 PM
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Americans are edging in around 80k per citizen in debt to the Fed, this does not include personal debt, where they are around $1200 per person to their central bank and their debt to GDP ratio is substantially better than ours.
Interestingly enough, the RBC serves one essential role in Russia, and that is to keep their currency stable. Our Treasury serves more as a giant piggy bank for corporate America. Does this make us richer than them, or just dumber?
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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There is a fall coming, no question. Like 1929? Dont know.
Jun 13, 2021, 11:58 PM
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But our GDP is many multiples of theirs, and always will be, a 1932 repeat or not. Go to Moscow for a week, or Latvia, which is not even a Soviet satellite any longer, and come document how they are better off.
I could transport you back in time to 1929, and you would be better off than the average Russian is today. The idea that the average Russian is better off than a Western counterpart is an ideological bias that transcends rationality.
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Heisman Winner [111709]
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Re: There is a fall coming, no question. Like 1929? Dont know.
Jun 14, 2021, 12:25 AM
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our GDP is about 20x theirs, but our debt ratio is about 60-1. Russia also employs what is called a resource-based economy, whereas the value of their economy is based on exports, oil, natural gas, metals and timber, and labor capacity, not voodoo economics. Their standard of living, despite being substantially lower than ours, is more in line with actual production and not the accumulation of debt. Hand every man woman and child in that country an 80k check, *and they would own about the same generational wealth that 80% of the households in the US enjoy.
*serious fuzzy math, but you get the idea.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Fuzzy math is fine. We're guessing anyway. Yes, the
Jun 14, 2021, 1:05 AM
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nonsensical debt has bought some things that others are going to have to pay for, and some of it, like the stimmi packages, were just dumping dollars into the economy. Printing paper dollars. People right now are trying to figure out how to make this a soft landing rather than a hard fall, the best scenario being near double digit inflation, more than 6 or 7 percent, for a period of years. By that time the debt, which which will remain in today's dollars - assuming new debt is curtailed, not a good bet with Yellen there - comes back into line. IE, if inflation carries the US GDP to 40 Trillion, the dept is no longer as big a deal.
That inflation is of course a tax, a tax on every dollar in circulation. The US could, for instance, pay off all the debt tomorrow (except that the bond contracts call for interest payments instead), but the total dollars in circulation today about equal that debt, meaning that every dollar would instantly be worth 50 cents. The hope is to spread that out over the next 5 - 10 years, not by paying it off but by dumping those dollars into the economy. Its a time honored tradition, actually.
But as that happens, GDP will continue to be 20x Russias, and Americans will continue to have more goods and services at their disposal. Russia is improving, would be my guess. Going instantly from communism to free market was a disaster, the only thing worse being staying communistic. They simply didn't have the distribution of capital to make markets, and today a dozen families still own it all, and they are still lacking the ethical/tort/court system needed for markets to operate. But they are getting there.
** Regarding the lack of ethical systems, that is what led to Space X as we know it now. Musk wanted to build rockets to sell satelite launches, and the most expesive part was the engines. No one has them, but Russian had lots of them left over from the space race, so he went over there to buy some. He couldn't ever get comfortable in knowing that he would actually get what he would pay for. So he came home empty handed. It was on the way home that he said to himself: "The hypothetical cheapest that an engine can be built is the market price of the materials, and that's nothing. The rest is rearranging the molecules so it looks like a rocket engine. I think I can do that." Until Russia has a culture that produces that kind of innovation - rather than having to steal it like they and the Chinese have to do - the West will always have standards of living several times higher than theirs.
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