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Replies: 31
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Associate AD [1027]
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Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 7:37 AM
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The popular belief (outside of our fan base, maybe even some of them) is that Clemson football is in decline since the advent of NIL and the portal. While we have had a dip (mainly coinciding with poor talent evaluation with receivers and QB during COVID) I firmly believe we are still a top 10 program. The next 12 months will be defining starting with how we perform against Tx and if we win the following game. Then we will see how we handle roster management (possible portal usage) and summer player development followed by a season opener again against an SEC name in LSU. I do believe there are some “adjustments” needed coaching wise ( we can’t tackle on defense) and depth wise. I do believe that Dabo now sees the need for specific use of the portal (but will he) and he is not afraid to make coaching moves. I think that Matt Luke was the most consequential hire since BV. So the next 12 months will tell us a lot about the actual trajectory of the program in this new age. I’m all in for it. Go Tigers!!
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Hall of Famer [8120]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 8:21 AM
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Agree. Unless we can shore up our weak spots via the portal, the trend will continue.
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1st Rounder [694]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 8:29 AM
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Start by sticking WES back to suggesting & someone else with Fire 🔥 COACHING
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Paw Master [17149]
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Ummm. Where you been since 2020?
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Dec 12, 2024, 8:26 AM
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This program has declined massively, and most of it is due to coaching. We still have better talent (not for long) than SC, UL, and Duke but we lost to them. Two miracles to beat Pitt and SMU and in the playoffs because there are 12 teams and they had to give us a spot (this year).
Why are freshmen usually some of our best players? Because their high school coaching staff is better than ours. Cade has gotten better due to outside coaching during the offseason. Our talent is top 5, our coaching is bottom 20.
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1st Rounder [694]
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Re: Ummm. Where you been since 2020?
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Dec 12, 2024, 8:30 AM
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👏
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Associate AD [1027]
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Re: Ummm. Where you been since 2020?
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Dec 12, 2024, 8:37 AM
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I’ve been right here since the 60’s. I’m just saying if we don’t make an adjustment over these next 12 months we could be left behind. Covid set us back more than most because it coincided with BV and Scott/Elliot departures. We need to seize back positive momentum during the next year or it could set us back for a long time.
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National Champion [7933]
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Re: Ummm. Where you been since 2020?
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Dec 12, 2024, 8:44 AM
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Objectively, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. If they beat Texas at Texas, I may change my vision- but what I'm seeing is a team that is not elite level that back-doored into the playoffs. I would consider keeping it within 10 points as overperformance. I hope they prove me wrong.
Long term, the recruiting has dried up and we are being out-recruited and outspent by our rivals. All of them.
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Offensive Star [340]
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Re: Ummm. Where you been since 2020?
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Dec 12, 2024, 9:05 AM
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We were 7-1 in Conference! Miami was 6-2! Not seeing where we back doored into anything. Granted...we have issues that definitely need to be addressed, but to say that we did not earn our way to the ACC Championship is not true.
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Tiger Titan [50695]
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We definitely earned the playoff berth
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Dec 12, 2024, 12:32 PM
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but let's not act like making the playoffs now is what it used to be.
Now, there are 12 teams, with several automatic bids. We got the automatic bid because we won a weak football conference filled almost exclusively with teams that care about football a lot less than we do at Clemson.
If not for the automatic bid, we wouldn't be in the playoffs as we are not one of the top 12 teams this year.
Winning the conference is great, and being in the playoffs is exciting. But fans who use these accomplishments to support their argument that Dabo is doing great and our program is "back" are missing the big picture - which is that we are no longer an elite football program. Multiple metrics support the fact that our program has slipped and there is little in the way of encouraging signs that things are turning around.
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CU Medallion [20857]
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Winning a conference title though as we did, again,
Dec 12, 2024, 12:54 PM
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is exactly what it used to be. It's rare air reserved for the elite in the game.
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Associate AD [1090]
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Hall of Famer [8225]
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Re: Ummm. Where you been since 2020?
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Dec 12, 2024, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ummm. Where you been since 2020? ] |
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Yeah, the back door talk is got to stop. Miami was 6-2 in conference. Because they played their last game after we do did doesn’t make it a “back door”. It diminishes the accomplishment of finishing seven and one in conference
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CU Medallion [20857]
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Does a Clubhouse leader in golf back door into a win because
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Dec 12, 2024, 1:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ummm. Where you been since 2020? ] |
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a player in the group after him still playing misses a birdie putt to catch up? No, he doesn't. Had the player behind him actually had a better score then double bogeyed it away - different story.
Beating that drum says more about agenda than anything else.
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Dynasty Maker [3483]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Factually incorrect...
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Dec 12, 2024, 8:59 AM
[ in reply to Ummm. Where you been since 2020? ] |
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Under the old system the ACC Champion played in the Orange Bowl (or substitute New Years Six Bowl if Orange Bowl was a playoff game). We would have been playing someone like Boise State, Tennessee, Penn State, Indiana, etc in the Orange Bowl... not a "nothing Bowl against a 6-5 team"
While that's not the top 4 like the run we had 2015-2020, it's not the equivalent of 2021 or 2023 either.
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Paw Master [17149]
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Acknowledged and corrected.***
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Dec 12, 2024, 9:43 AM
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Tiger Titan [50695]
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All-TigerNet [6021]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 9:22 AM
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That's a very rosey description of where our Football program is in relation to where we were just a few years ago.
The main issue in my opinion is that Dabo opted to hire a bunch of new coaches with very little, or no prior coaching experience. Which among other things probably explains why our talent evals dipped, and player development has fallen off. Coaches like Matt Luke make it look easy, and our OL has improved tremendously. But we need those kind of results across the board on both sides of the football to be elite again. NIL and Transfer Portal have further eroded Clemson's ability to attract and retain talent, which further exacerbates holes in the current coaching staff.
Margin for error has shrunk for Clemson and Dabo has not helped himself out by gambling on hiring inexperienced coaches.
If we want better results, we need to get better. I don't disagree with Dabo's stance on the Transfer Portal or NIL, In fact I admire him for it. But, I'm not sure we can be elite without getting much better at both. It all starts with coaching and without the right ones it won't matter which players we recruit or buy through the Transfer Portal/NIL.
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Clemson Conqueror [11494]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 9:55 AM
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Matt Luke, Nick Eason, Chris Rumph, and Mike Reed are elite coaches and also excellent recruiters.
As for Clemson’s strategy for remaining as a powerful program despite (relatively speaking) not-elite monetary assets, we spend big in retaining key players and appeal to their sense of team comraderie as a non-monetary value factor.
Doing this gives Clemson stability that is not seen in portal king programs like FSU and Michigan.
Player maturity + quality starters across the board is aligning for Clemson FB program in 2025. We need to hang into our players, and need only three portal players that can compete for a starting job at DE, WR, and LB. If that happens, then 2025 season is a,inning to be a truly big year.
With a truly big year in 2025, we should be able to squeeze through the current (relatively speaking) financial disadvantage period and then be in a less distorted (relatively speaking) financial environment in 2026.
That’s it for my two cents.
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CU Guru [1570]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 10:49 AM
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I think a WR room is very good next year, no need for the portal there.
Antonio Williams, Bryant Wesco, Tyler Brown, TJ Moore, Cole Turner, and Adam Randall. Would have liked to recruit someone to add depth vs use the portal. Maybe you have intel that someone is leaving?
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All-In [10811]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
Dec 12, 2024, 10:08 AM
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One problem we keep having is playing a power team in the first game instead of a Citadel. I get the money part, but tough start to play an LSU or Georgia.
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Orange Blooded [2421]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
Dec 12, 2024, 11:15 AM
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Elite programs don’t shy away from playing other elite programs at any point of the season.
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All-Pro [799]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 10:11 AM
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I would say this year was trending up from last year. We did win the conference and make the playoffs. 🤷🏼♂️
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All-American [556]
TigerPulse: 37%
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 10:21 AM
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The only 3 teams we played with a pulse this year ALL beat us and this years recruiting class is ranked in the mid 30s(and is full of 3 star diamonds in the rough) should tell you all you need to know. We may make it back to being an elite team one day….but dabo will not be the one to get us there. Hes a dinosaur in a young man’s league.
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Asst Coach [830]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
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Dec 12, 2024, 10:37 AM
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It is a fact that the program has declined since 2018. This was caused by promoting inexperienced coaches to key positions, poor talent evaluation and just plain misses on some players, and the evolution of NIL and the portal.
However, it is also a fact that this year's team is better than last year's team. Dabo made some coaching changes and these new coaches made major impacts. Matt Luke was an awesome hire. I think more changes are coming this offseason.
Talent got better in a lot of places, and older players are playing better. A lot of freshmen played key roles and will only get better.
Tom Luginbill even commented that he is not worried about Clemson's recruiting class this year because we hauled in an excellent top 10 class last year, AND he said 50% or 60% of the players that signed with other schools will be on different teams the following year.
We lost 2 games to good teams, and a 3rd in Louisville we had no business losing to. Reminds me a lot of the 2013 or 2014 time period for Clemson football. Good but not yet great.
Dabo will have to venture into the portal, and if he gives it an honest effort we can go from good to elite again rather quickly.
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Rival Killer [2891]
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Older players played better?
Dec 12, 2024, 11:24 AM
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Except for maybe Cade and Woodaz… I’m not seeing a whole lot else.
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CU Medallion [20857]
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I read on here last week that the SMU game was to be our defining moment.
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Dec 12, 2024, 11:21 AM
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18 starters via the portal vs 0.
A legit Top 10 team.
Are we still the pinnacle of the conference or not.
Are 10-win seasons now pipe dreams.
Yada. Yada. Yada.
Go Tigers! Beat the Horns!
Message was edited by: wildblulou®
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National Champion [7198]
TigerPulse: 100%
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mainly coinciding with poor talent evaluation with receivers and QB during COVID
Dec 12, 2024, 11:44 AM
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you sir are absolutely correct here.
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Tiger Titan [50695]
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So you're just ignoring what's happened since 2020?
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Dec 12, 2024, 12:22 PM
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These last few years have been defining as well, which is why people have concluded that our program has slipped.
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CU Medallion [20857]
TigerPulse: 100%
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We are 15-3 going back to last season's Notre Dame win,
Dec 12, 2024, 1:08 PM
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3-2 vs OOC P5 programs, 3-2 vs ranked opponents, reigning conference champions, and in the first-ever 12-team playoff. That's some pretty impressive slipping going on.
For the discerning eye, one can see the improvement in our program as the no in-person Covid recruiting cycles wane out and the post Covid cycles from '23 on round into form. Player leadership and performance is on an upward trajectory and we are still well enough alive and in the hunt this season.
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Hall of Famer [8225]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
Dec 12, 2024, 1:10 PM
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Top 10 programs don’t lose it home to Shane Beamer
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Orange Blooded [2461]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
Dec 12, 2024, 1:13 PM
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I want to do whatever it takes to keep matt luke on staff and I want a defensive analog for him - DL/LB/Dbs i dont care just some elite level game changing talent developer.
And we need some serious soul searching about our inconsistent coordinating
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Game Changer [1869]
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Re: Trajectory defining 12 months
Dec 12, 2024, 1:32 PM
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Yawn....."muh, trajectory"🙄
rinse, repeat, regurgitate
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