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Trainer [39]
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Really don't understand all basketball negativity
Feb 16, 2017, 12:01 PM
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Lets put the season in perspective.
-Out of conference (10-2):
Losses: Then number 11.Xavier & Oklahoma. Both losses came in a tournament in orlando. Early season tournaments are always weird due to weak crowds and playing games in consecutive days. We competed in both games and also keep in mind two starters (Mitchell and Thomas) weren't available to play. That really hurt our offense and depth which makes playing back to back to back games very difficult.
Wins: solid Wins against Georgia at home and Alabama and South Carolina on the road. All three of those teams are in the top tier of the SEC which really puts how good the ACC is this year in perspective. Other notable wins were Davidson, UNCW, and Nebraska.
*Overall very successful especially compared to recent years out of conference play.
-ACC play (4-9):
I get this looks really bad at first but if you actually break down the games were better then our record indicates. SIX of our nine losses were by 5 points or less. I know a loss is a loss but realize four of these losses were against ranked teams(UNC, UVA, ND, DUKE) and the other two were against teams who will probably make the tournament (syracuse & VT). Considering all of those teams besides maybe VT are traditionally elite basketball schools and recruit at a way higher level then us how mad can we really be about that. We hung right in there and probably should of won the majority of those games.
*Instead of bashing this team lets get behind them for this late season push and possible NCAA tourney bid. Maybe if we could get an actual home court advantage like the OP days instead of one of the worse environments in the ACC this year some of these games would go our way. I believe we still have a good shot to make the tourney if we close out strong and make some noise in the ACC tournament. Stop waiting for the team to lose to come bash them on this board and make your way to Little john for the end of season home stretch.
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Heisman Winner [78996]
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Re: Really don't understand all basketball negativity
Feb 16, 2017, 12:06 PM
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looks bad a second and third glance too. combined with Sidy's regression much as Nnoko did last year. and mix in poor defense. and that is why people are grumbling
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Trainer [39]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: Really don't understand all basketball negativity
Feb 16, 2017, 12:10 PM
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Sidy isn't an ACC caliber center. We knew it before the season started I had no high expectations for him at all. If Elijah Thomas can learn how to stay out of foul trouble then Sidy can become a great energy bench guy who can give us a spark now and then but I think people have had way too high expectations for Sidy this season.
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CU Guru [1560]
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Re: Really don't understand all basketball negativity
Feb 16, 2017, 5:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Really don't understand all basketball negativity ] |
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Sidy's regression????
Huh?
First if that was the rmain reasoning, then we are way worse off than we thought.
The close losses were losses for a few reasons beyond poor 3pt defense, over rotations and the other team scoring more points...
1. JBs 3 of shootinghas been below average (certainly early) and he has missed critical FTs in games. Plus he was absent some to start year as teams keyed on him and he had to get in sync with other guys
2. Dante's disappearance during games - he is solid defender who takes key Opponents main guy. But Dante's scoring just goes AWOL sometimes
3. Gabe D remains streaky and inconsistent, plus he has had a turnover problem
4. New guys meshing well and having the same urgency and fire on D as the other guys- we can score but the D suffers. I put that on Mitchell, Reed and Thomas . They need to toughen up and fight harder on D. It ain't flashy but it keeps Clemson in games.
5. Just some dumb decisions by guys at critical times.
Change any 2 of the 5 above and we win more than half the games we lost, except FSU and LOU blowouts.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101580]
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So you're saying we are less than 30 points away from being
Feb 16, 2017, 12:08 PM
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10-3 in conference play?
Sounds vaguely familiar for some reason.
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Trainer [39]
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Re: So you're saying we are less than 30 points away from being
Feb 16, 2017, 12:12 PM
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No Im saying the close competitive losses against college basketball powerhouses show if we play to our caliber we can compete with any team in the country.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101580]
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Cool. We get a banner for that?***
Feb 16, 2017, 12:14 PM
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: Cool. We get a banner for that?***
Feb 16, 2017, 1:07 PM
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No but if we can find a way to start winning those close games we could end up with one. I will not give up hope. This team has the athletes. We really need Grantham to step up though.
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Heisman Winner [78798]
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If.
Feb 16, 2017, 1:19 PM
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If we were better, we'd be better.
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: If.
Feb 16, 2017, 2:08 PM
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Hey at least we have room for improvement right?
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CU Guru [1560]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101841]
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It's simple. It's because of our record. 14-11 is not good.***
Feb 16, 2017, 12:10 PM
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Trainer [39]
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Re: It's simple. It's because of our record. 14-11 is not good.***
Feb 16, 2017, 12:15 PM
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That the whole point of this post. If you're just judging our team off of our record you would think we're a lot worse then when are
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TigerNet Elite [70028]
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Second strike ...
Feb 16, 2017, 12:35 PM
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then - at that time; at the time in question.
than - introducing the second element in a comparison.
You are incorrectly using 'then' when you mean 'than'.
Yes, I am a "Grammar Nazi".
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101580]
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he could care less***
Feb 16, 2017, 12:37 PM
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TigerNet Elite [70028]
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I could see how you seen that.***
Feb 16, 2017, 12:39 PM
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Ring of Honor [22298]
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Heisman Winner [78798]
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but maybe we are the BEST 4-9 team in the conference?
Feb 16, 2017, 1:21 PM
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sounds cootish.
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Ring of Honor [22298]
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That is entirely possible....***
Feb 16, 2017, 4:33 PM
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Rock Defender [69]
TigerPulse: 89%
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So are you justifying that we are average at best...
Feb 16, 2017, 12:14 PM
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and should continue to be happy with that? If you're going to get into and compete in the dance, you have to beat a few ranked teams along the way.
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Trainer [42]
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No. He's saying the season isn't over, and we are still in
Feb 16, 2017, 12:20 PM
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running for postseason play. According to some, we should say screw it and cancel the rest of the season because, according to them, we have such a minuscule chance of making tournament play anyway.
Seems like the poster here is simply trying to fight the quitter mentality, and if so, I agree. I'd rather play the season out with optimism as opposed to saying screw it now an not even bother playing.
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MVP [518]
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Watch a game.***
Feb 16, 2017, 12:22 PM
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Trainer [42]
TigerPulse: 62%
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"lets get behind them for this late season push and ..."
Feb 16, 2017, 12:26 PM
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"...lets get behind them for this late season push and possible NCAA tourney bid."
Why is that so hard?
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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The last 6 season or so are probably a factor.*****
Feb 16, 2017, 12:28 PM
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Legend [18408]
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Re: Really don't understand all basketball negativity
Feb 16, 2017, 12:29 PM
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I get where you are coming from and by all means we should support the team to the bitter end BUT, that being said:
I see few that are actually whining and saying we should throw in the towel. I think it's more the frustration that we should be able to compete year end and year out at a high level. Just because we're considered a "fb" school doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to at least go to the tourney most years. BB only gone once & that was OP players.
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Clemson Icon [24765]
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Xavier is unranked and Oklahoma has two 7 loss streaks so
Feb 16, 2017, 12:33 PM
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far this season and is 9-16 overall. Xavier has a good team, but they aren't #11 and that Oklahoma loss is a HORRIBLE loss on the resume.
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Ring of Honor [22911]
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I stopped reading at
Feb 16, 2017, 12:43 PM
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"I know a loss is a loss but"
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TigerNet Icon [153231]
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Uhh... that was in the 5th paragraph.***
Feb 16, 2017, 12:44 PM
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Ring of Honor [22911]
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Yes, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt until that
Feb 16, 2017, 12:47 PM
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point.
I almost stopped reading where he tried to justify the OU and Xavier losses...
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Trainer [39]
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Re: Yes, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt until that
Feb 16, 2017, 1:15 PM
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We were down two starters in those games. Made a huge difference.
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Ring of Honor [22911]
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Yeah and loserville beat us by 32 without their best player.***
Feb 16, 2017, 2:10 PM
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TigerNet Elite [70028]
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You made it further than me.
Feb 16, 2017, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to I stopped reading at ] |
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My grammatical obsessive-compulsiveness stopped here, "I get this looks really bad at first but if you actually break down the games were better then our record indicates."
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Top TigerNet [32856]
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Re: You made it further than me.
Feb 16, 2017, 12:54 PM
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ra'd for using "then" instead of "than"
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Dynasty Maker [3159]
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I think that a lot of folks are looking at the big picture......
Feb 16, 2017, 12:44 PM
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And they see that this is year 7 and it looks like the NCAA tourney is a long shot. People expected us to perhaps go .500 in the conference and make the tourney since we had a better non-conference slate.
Last season the team showed signs of breaking through, but faltered down the stretch. I figured we would get back to the 'breaking through' and win a few more games.
This season, with Blossomgame coming back, it seemed reasonable that we would equal or improve upon last season. Barring an extremely strong finish, it looks as if we did better out of conference this season , but have declined in conference play.
The reality is that we can't just lose all the close games to good teams. We have to find ways to win at least one of those, especially at home. It looks like we have the players to do it, but something has not completely clicked for the coaching staff and this particular team.
I think that the two blowouts where the team appeared to quit are worthy of concern. Brownell's teams have always played hard and fought, even the less talented ones, but there are 2 games that were embarrassing. That tends to bring out the negativity.
I do think this team has a chance to finish well...and they are certainly due for something good to happen in a close game. I hope that in a couple of weeks we are all talking about how well the team is playing down the stretch.
But this season has been frustrating. Fans want more than 12th place with wins over the other bottom feeders. In those close losses, certain things, whether it was mistakes by coaches or players, were simply baffling.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: I think that a lot of folks are looking at the big picture......
Feb 16, 2017, 2:27 PM
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Maybe this season we tripped out of the gate with a tough first half of the ACC schedule and we finish strong, as apposed to the other way around.
We seem to have no answer for Grantham's lackluster performance, just prayers that he gets it together soon.
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CU Medallion [20868]
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"We're bettter than our record indicates" gets a little old
Feb 16, 2017, 12:50 PM
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after the fifth consecutive year of saying it. At least it has for me. I've seen all I need to see from Coach Brownell to feel that he is incapable of getting this program over the hump to a next level. Wish it weren't true, but the proof is in the pudding.
Go Tigers!
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Valley Legend [12622]
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Re: "We're bettter than our record indicates" gets a little old
Feb 16, 2017, 2:19 PM
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I am also tired of this mentality in basketball. If we had maintained this way of thinking in football, we would still have TB as our coach and we would be averaging 7 or 8 wins a year and happy to make it to a bowl game.
That being said, I will continue to pull for the Tigers in every game they play in any sport including basketball. Hopefully we will get on a roll and make it to the tournament. However, just making it to the tournament doesn't necessarily excuse years of mediocre performances. I would like to think that when the season comes to an end D-Rad will look at the big picture of where we have been and where we are headed and make a decision that is best for Clemson going forward. Yes we are a football school, but so is FSU and yet they are able to put together quality teams from time to time. So there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to do the same thing.
GO TIGERS!
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: Really don't understand all basketball negativity
Feb 16, 2017, 1:05 PM
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Thank you sir! We can still make the tourney and we have a pretty dang good team. If we can get hot right now we can finish out strong and have a great case for being in. Tuesday was a good start.
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Top TigerNet [31581]
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We are what our record says we are
Feb 16, 2017, 1:32 PM
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It's a simple truth.
Accept it. Embrace it.
It is, simply, what it is.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101580]
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Thanks a lot Debbie
Feb 16, 2017, 1:35 PM
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Downer
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Paw Warrior [4604]
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Brad is that you?***
Feb 16, 2017, 1:36 PM
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Orange Immortal [65682]
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There are two seperate things going on here.
Feb 16, 2017, 3:10 PM
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I hope we win out and go all the way. I think Brad Brownell is a great guy and a pretty good coach. Our players are young men who chose Clemson and are doing their best. I am pulling for all of them.
Having said that, there can be no honest discussion of our basketball program if we ignore the elephant in the room, and I don't feel that we as fans are obligated to remain eternally silent with regard to the obvious.
In summary - Go Tigers - win them all! We appreciate your love for Clemson and the hard work and effort you have put forth. As all of our players are intelligent young men and fierce competitors themselves, and as all of our coaches are mature professional adults, they understand the importance of winning and achieving certain goals, and they understand the consequences should they fall short. Everyone concerned realizes that support will dwindle (right or wrong) and changes will be made if we don't win enough and if certain goals are not met. It's the way it is.
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Ring of Honor [22911]
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^^^this guy gets it^^^***
Feb 16, 2017, 3:46 PM
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Orange Blooded [2487]
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This would make one ounce of sense if...
Feb 16, 2017, 6:05 PM
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This was year 3 or 4...Not year 7.
1st off, it wasn't even a good hire.
But, can't look back on that. Realistically..
this team will probably have to make the ACCCG
to have any chance, IMO.
#21
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