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Hall of Famer [20542]
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This is how actual media works
Mar 19, 2022, 8:34 AM
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Say what you want about CNN's primetime Infotainer lineup - and many do, with more than a little justification - their newsroom is and remains top-drawer. And it appears they just busted Axios - who is normally considered one of the media-elite outfits, with a Who's Who of reporters and producers working for them, for whiffing big-time on a story. It looks like Axios bit on a falsified letter attributed to a Ukrainian official, and ran with it despite myriad warning signs.
Just pointing this out, because the persistent narrative in conservative media is: the MSM just makes up stories and says whatever they want.
Nope. Hardly. The MSM, even highly reputable sources like Axios, is hardly perfect - see Exhibit A right here - but if you get caught whiffing bigly on a story, well...this.
It'll be instructive to watch Axios's reaction as they get boxed on this. Because you can see it coming a mile off. If it's proven, they'll own it. And somebody is going to get canned, or "voluntarily resign".
Credibility is their stock-in-trade. Without it, they're done.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/18/media/axios-ukraine-article/index.html
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All-TigerNet [10892]
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BS. They run with anything that fits their agenda, and they hide anything
Mar 19, 2022, 8:37 AM
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That doesn’t. They are totally fine spreading fake news as long as it is in their interest. Then they go back years later and say “oops”. The media is 100% biased and fraudulent.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: BS. They run with anything that fits their agenda, and they hide anything
Mar 19, 2022, 8:39 AM
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Sure. And how many reporters do you know?
I know a bunch, myself.
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All-TigerNet [10892]
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I try not to associate with liars and frauds.***
Mar 19, 2022, 8:42 AM
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: I try not to associate with liars and frauds.***
Mar 19, 2022, 8:54 AM
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LOL.
Willful ignorance is not bliss, my man. It just means you don't know jack.
Actually journalism is really thankless work. They get paid peanuts - which is why I personally avoided it, I like money, myself - but the flip side is, they get to know stuff, and that's what really drives almost all of them. They are as nosy and as perpetually curious a bunch as there is, and they wanna be in the know. They almost universally consider it public service...because it very much is. They're the eyes and ears for the rest of us. Without it, the powerful do what they want, to who they want, whenever the eff they wanna do it.
Basically, stuff of significance happens. They then record and try to write about it or talk about it, as clearly and (hopefully in as unbiased manner) as possible. Their job is to get it right, that the public may be informed.
That's it. That's all.
Anyone not an idiot - maybe the wrong thread for that - can see why it's a necessary function for a functional society. And oh, yeah, the nightmare of each and every one of them is this: getting it wrong, and having one of their stories (especially one of their big stories) exposed for all the world to see as erroneous. It's how they're judged by their peers, by the industry, what makes them employable in future stops...and you'd durned well better not rack up a track record of stuff like this, or you don't work as a newsie again.
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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I don't see Darcy as anything but a CNN 'cleaner'/ 'hitman'.***
Mar 19, 2022, 10:36 AM
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110%er [7139]
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Re: I try not to associate with liars and frauds.***
Mar 19, 2022, 10:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: I try not to associate with liars and frauds.*** ] |
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“… the nightmare of each and every one of them is this: getting it wrong, and having one of their stories (especially one of their big stories) exposed for all the world to see as erroneous. It's how they're judged by their peers, by the industry, what makes them employable in future stops...and you'd durned well better not rack up a track record of stuff like this, or you don't work as a newsie again.”
This counter argument to your statement will be a long, as providing context (in this case) is a lengthy process.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If a news organization reports 75% truth and 25% un-truths, an argument could be made that said news organization’s reporting is overwhelmingly truthful. Very few people would trust a news organization as being honest if a ‘minority 25%’ of its reporting is false. Only the audience that seeks affirmation for their own belief system will be unimpacted by mistruths from the cheerleading media outlet of their choice.
A key missing element of your ‘nightmare’ statement is HOW LONG before the news agency (which ‘gets it wrong) gets exposed for their malfeasance, or decides on its own that the time is safe to publish a retraction. The answer is commonly ‘after the lie no longer has impact to influence public opinion.’
Two separate articles demonstrate the example of how hyperbolic ‘facts’ (i.e., speculation instead of fact) at a strategic time helped to create a political outcome. When as the real facts (at a time when it is too late to impact a political outcome) are published, it is too late to overcome the malicious reporting of the dishonest news organization. The examples below illustrate another brick in the wall that supports the declining credibility … and the declining ratings over the past ~ 20 years … with CNN.
First part: CNN’s ‘getting it wrong’ Chris Cuomo, citing ALLEGATIONS of rape by E. Jean Carroll as being true in June 2019 … conveniently done as the 2020 presidential election campaigns were getting into high gear.
ARTICLE #1 - The Week (June 25, 2019): Stephen Colbert and Chris Cuomo ask why a rape allegation against a sitting president isn’t bigger news.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/848998/stephen-colbert-chris-cuomo-ask-why-rape-allegation-against-sitting-president-isnt-bigger-news
Salient paragraph:
CNN's Chris Cuomo said he and his staff were similarly confused: "This prominent journalist accuses the sitting president of rape — this is the most extreme accusation we've had against this president — and it has had almost no impact, really, on our dialogue." He read Carroll's allegations. "This is rape, period," he said. "Carroll doesn't like using the word, and that is her right." Cuomo said CNN didn't report the allegation until it got corroboration, and it has.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Second part: The ‘disproval of CNN’s fact’ by Reuters … but after it is too late to make a difference.
ARTICLE - Reuters (DEC_03_2021): Trump, rape accuser Carroll battle in defamation appeal.
Salient paragraph establishes that Cuomo’s “This is rape” comment is no where close to ‘reporting facts.’
Democratic President Joe Biden's administration sided with Trump in the appeal, despite what Justice Department lawyer Mark Freeman called the Republican businessman-turned-politician's "crude and offensive comments" in response to Carroll's "very serious" accusations.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-urges-us-appeals-court-end-rape-accusers-lawsuit-2021-12-03//cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/INW2DXR2JJL4TCVLXHN4CNW5YM.jpg) Trump, rape accuser Carroll battle in defamation appeal A lawyer for Donald Trump on Friday urged a U.S. appeals court to find the former president immune from author E. Jean Carroll's defamation lawsuit arising from her allegation that he raped her, an argument Carroll's lawyer said would put him "above the law."
Conveniently, the reversal of CNN’s accusation against DJT (with CNN’s accusation being based solely on allegation) is too late to matter. The ‘lying side’ (in this case CNN in their endeavor to help create a political outcome) wins.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: I try not to associate with liars and frauds.***
Mar 20, 2022, 10:28 AM
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The difference is, I'm not trying to defend CNN. I've been hyper-critical of them and they thoroughly deserve their own criticisms, and they're part of the wasteland that cable news has become.
They still have a really good newsroom. But their corporate structure is a train wreck. I mean, lordy. Look at Cuomo, who got fired...justifiably. But now Zucker's out. And a host of others. Calling it a dumpster fire would be unkind to dumpsters. And that's exactly why they're getting thumped by media observers. I mean, this is not a good review from mediabiasfactcheck.com, and they agree with your assessment of them:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/cnn-bias/ CNN LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderate to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may
The problem is, this is Fox News, which is even worse...they're literally flirting with "questionable source" status, though CNN is getting closer to that line than they'd like as well:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news-bias/ Fox News (foxnews.com) RIGHT BIAS These media sources are moderate to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may
When the public's being served this poorly, this might explain why we can't agree on anything, yes?
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Another view...
Mar 20, 2022, 1:05 PM
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That is one guy's opinion about another guy's opinion. And guess what...mediabiasfactcheck actually publicly acknowledged this criticism and even provided links:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/palmer-report/ Palmer Report LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may
You can put whatever stock you want in Van Zandt's methodology, but he's been consistent and he applies a consistent methodology to it, whatever Palmer claims. (Note that Palmer's claims that "Van Zandt just changes his ratings" were not supported by any sourcing whatsoever...odd, considering Palmer himself was making claims Van Zandt himself didn't source properly.)
This shows how MBFC arrives at their conclusions. No, it's not perfect, but I wish there was a lot more of it and I suspect in the future there will be because analyzing the value of our sources of information is so critical. At the end of the day, do you agree with their ratings and methodology, or don't you? Obviously, there is always going to be a difference of opinion - much as there is, in say, Olympic sports - but if you're judging by a consistent criteria (and he is) the ratings should be consistent...and they are.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/methodology/Methodology Objective: To determine the bias of media and information sources and the level of overall factual reporting through a combination of objective measures
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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Even the methodology is patently subjective... but he does
Mar 20, 2022, 1:50 PM
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give you an avenue to complain, whether he acknowledges it or not... "I'll slot you here until we do further research...if we want to."
"I am the arbiter of truth... because I say so."
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Even the methodology is patently subjective... but he does
Mar 20, 2022, 2:34 PM
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Well, somebody has to be. The reason MBFC is so often cited is because his methodology is consistent and the reviews he produces, while not absolute truth and any sort of "official" judgment, are generally very accurate and representative of where most folks who crunched the data would agree they belong. Again, you can agree with Van Zandt's methodology or not. Obviously Palmer doesn't...but then, Palmer got an obviously not-great review from MBFC, and obviously didn't like it...and he lashed out. He did the same when Snopes whistled him on some blown fact checks too. Which strikes me as a complete b!tch move...hey, I don't like the reviews, so rather than address the fact that I'm blowing fact checks, I'm going to scream like a Karen about the guy doing the fact checking and site reviews that mention I've blown fact checks. Real mature, Palmer.
Again, do you agree with Van Zandt's methodology, or not? Because all you're doing is engaging in straight nihilism like T3 - who I don't even bother to acknowledge anymore - and indulging in that tired old trope that is irritating even among college philosophy students: "there is no truth, just spin, and truth is impossible to find or acknowledge". Bullsh!t. It's just hard, and takes work. It wouldn't matter if it was an entire brigade of Congressionally-appointed fact checkers and media reviewers, those who didn't agree with them would still try to say: "the process is corrupt and utterly sux".
Van Zandt and MBFC is an opinion. But it's generally a pretty good one, IMHO, and far more agree than don't. And those who disagree will never answer the question of where specifically they think Van Zandt's method is erroneous, or where he deviates from it.
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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10 headlines and 5 articles (which THEY choose) and then...
Mar 20, 2022, 3:36 PM
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your site gets relegated to THEIR scale... As I stated, subjective. Can it be used as a quick circumspect? Probably. Can it be used as some definitive gauge? I personally don't think so. To each his own.
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110%er [7139]
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Re: I try not to associate with liars and frauds.***
Mar 20, 2022, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: I try not to associate with liars and frauds.*** ] |
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Not that I expect TNetters to have noticed this, but Fox News (or whatever is left of that organization) has become a farce. I'd defy any TNetter to find a post where I've lauded Fox News.
Forgive me for posting this again. But here's exhibit A of Fox News' corruption as a credible news organization. (This has been posted before, but is still worth a look by those who missed it in other/previous posts.)
(*) This clip is not suggesting that the Ukrainians are bad or that the Russians are good ... but that the 'news clip' from Fox News illustrates Fox's illegitimacy.
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2022/03/09/crisis-actors-pretending-to-be-dead-ukrainians-cant-keep-still-and-fox-news-talking-heads-cant-stop-lying/
Fox News (as a phony conservative leaning news organization) is every bit the gargabe as the (no longer liberal, but now leftist) the other news organizations such as MSNBC, ABC news, NBC news, CBS news, CNN, etc.
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110%er [7207]
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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How does one dissociate with one's self?
Mar 19, 2022, 9:55 AM
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That sounds tricky.
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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You need to be bi-polar with touch of schizo... Works for me. ;~)
Mar 19, 2022, 11:45 AM
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All-TigerNet [10892]
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: ... that turns out to be true weeks/days later***
Mar 19, 2022, 11:59 AM
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Dude, you insisted shrilly there was no COVID epidemic in India, and that all those dead Indians had died of starvation. You absolutely did. If you try to lie about it, I'll produce screenshots.
In the meantime, my buddy Pasha here stateside was sending oxygen and respirators to his family in New Delhi, on his own dime - with whom, by the way, he webchatted with daily (they really do have the Internetz in India too)...and, oh, yeah, Delta was annihilating what looks something like four and a half million people in India now.
You are almost never right, be it hours, days, months, or years. You just throw so much rando stuff against the wall once upon a blue moon something actually sticks.
The problem with that approach is, you're constantly proffering dog turds, and insisting there's diamonds inside...and that it's somehow our job to go looking for them.
No. It is not. How about you fact-check yourself for a change, and use some critical thinking skills (or even just basic googling!) to determine which of your Tinfoil Hat theories might actually have some legs?
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110%er [7207]
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All-TigerNet [13136]
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This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 9:05 AM
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The WH puts out a Tik-Tok video of mis-information. Minutes later, pretty much every “reporter” is parroting the exact same message.
Zero independent thought in that industry.
The steel dossier was considered “verified” because yahoo news reported the same information that the FBI had received (from the EXACT same source). Verified enough to falsify FISA requests.
Zero credibility. Zero.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 9:19 AM
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Who claimed the Steele Dossier was "verified"?
I saw a bunch of innuendo - let's face it, Steele was an MI6 spy, he had a lot of sources and there was a reason he could make bank peddling scurrilous rumor to ruin reputations on behalf of Fusion GPS - and his stuff was extremely plausible and passed a lot of initial sniff tests. It only fell apart on closer examination, when the media itself really started parsing that story and were clanking on verifying some details.
I did not see anybody reputable actually claim definitively that dossier was ever "verified". Can you cite sources? I myself have not seen such.
This argument is a total strawman argument, anyhow, because as scurrilous as that Steele Dossier was, it really wasn't the fundamental question everybody was asking - and continues to ask! - about Trump, which is: what on Earth did the Russians have on him? Because he durn sure appeared to bow and scrape to Putin, and seemed far more to be doing their bidding than ours, including trying to dismantle a mutual-defense organization in NATO that we were in charge of even as Russia and China were forming a new Axis against the West. Everyone close to him says he fully intended for America to leave NATO if he won a second term.
Politicians being politicians, they looked for political leverage, because that's how politicians think. But Trump wasn't a politician. He was a businessman.
The obvious answer, by the way, always resided in those taxes and financials he's still fighting to not release. He owed them money. A $%#-ton of it. All personally guaranteed, all due over the next four years, and those creditors (still unnamed, by the way) had better be willing to re-finance in the future or they'll have the power to crush him. Which means those people own him.
Who are they, again? (And here crickets always chirp.)
Showing that a document provided by a Washington company whose job it was to dig up political dirt on opponents for the purposes of mudslinging was largely bogus does not in any way disprove any of the rest. But it's amazing that you MAGA's continue to think it means anything beyond the fact that Hillary Clinton was a dirty politician who threw mud like all dirty politicians do. Like...duh. They do that. Yes, they do. Gosh. Who knew?
Again, can you cite the reputable media sources that claimed to have verified the Steele Dossier? I'm genuinely curious.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 9:27 AM
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Also, you mentioned the industry all putting out the same stories.
Yeah. It's called the "news of the day." That's their function. Stuff happens. The media observes and records it. So-and-so said this, such-and-such happened here. The more newsworthy it is, the more cameras you're going to find pointed at it.
You seem really confused, like that's a bad thing.
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Heisman Winner [119723]
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Are you talking to yourself?***
Mar 19, 2022, 9:38 AM
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All-TigerNet [13136]
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Re: This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: This is how actual media REALLY works ] |
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It is not "News of the Day", it is DNC Talking Points of the Day. There is a difference.
Not one, let me say this again NOT ONE "reporter" asked "hey, what about the 58% fuel price increases before Putin invaded Ukraine?".
My point being, there are no question to what the WH deems as "news of the day", that is why people describe the MSM as the propaganda arm of the DNC.
Maybe some of the people that you know are legit reporters. They are ground level, let one of them take a story about Hunter using AF II to make business deals all over the world, while dad was VP and see what happens. Now take the exact same story and substitute Don Jr. in place of Hunter, and see who bites. Pathetic.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 11:09 AM
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You miss the whole point about the "newsworthy" thing.
Don Junior was an integral part of Trump's White House, a mover-and-a-shaker within his father's administration. He's relevant.
Hunter Biden is not remotely relevant. Everything about him is out. He has zero authority whatsoever, he has no influence whatsoever on decision-making, and the Secret Service now basically has him stashed under a rock before he can get caught on video blowing a line of cocaine up a Chinese hooker's butt, because Hunter is just that dumb and he's more than good for it.
No, no, no, Poppa Joe said. To Purgatory with you. Here. We'll let you sell your paint-by-numbers art at stupidly inflated prices to anybody you can convince you actually have a shred of influence. Don't forget to write.
We all have relatives like that. Yeah, Hunter Biden's an obvious waste of human flesh, bent to the bone, was getting golden handshakes from anyone who would offer payola, was trading on Daddy's name in about four different continents. The term there is "royal wastrel".
But beating that dead horse isn't news. Because it isn't news to anybody with a brain that Hunter's a waste of human flesh, a former and oft-relapsing drug addict, and was taking payola to anyone who'd throw money at him. What else is there to say?
Mind, we see Hunter near 1600 Pennsylvania at any moment, in any kind of position of authority, that indifference changes real quick. And he becomes "newsworthy" again.
But until then, sorry. It's just false equivalency...and it's exactly why the real press isn't interested. They're interested in big and important, and Hunter Biden is...not.
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CU Medallion [58417]
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WOW. You really worked hard to justify that one.
Mar 19, 2022, 2:58 PM
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Incredibly hard. It didn't work, but much respect all the same.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: WOW. You really worked hard to justify that one.
Mar 19, 2022, 3:06 PM
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Yeah. A man's son has absolutely no influence whatsoever. I crack up at some of the justifications on this. LOL
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All-TigerNet [13136]
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Re: This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: This is how actual media REALLY works ] |
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The FBI claimed it was "verified", as they must when submitting a FISA application. They used "multiple" news sources as "corroboration". The media, congress, senators, etc. jumped on that "verified" bandwagon. Google how many times Adam Schiffforbrains, said the word "verified". WhereTF have you been?
Like many organizations (FBI, CIA, etc. as I hinted below about ground level reporters) are fine people trying to do honest work. I know several FBI and CIA folks who I would trust my life, but they are just as disgusted with the top brass of their organizations as I.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 10:58 AM
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Can you cite where, on court documents? Because I think you're talking out your butt again.
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All-TigerNet [13136]
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Re: This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 12:23 PM
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Is the FISA warrant signed by McCabe and Rosenstein “court enough” for you? I’ll help you out “verification clause” is section “U Certification” toward the end of each application.
What is more dangerous than the deep state operatives, are the millions of dupes guaranteeing their power through votes; due to their simple mindedness.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/4614708/Carter-Page-FISA-Application.pdf
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: This is how actual media REALLY works
Mar 19, 2022, 12:42 PM
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Okay, I read it. I didn't actually think you'd do any research. So TU for you.
It's mostly redacted, which you know, so while there may be more in there we didn't see, it looks like there was one four-sentence mention concerning the allegations of the so-called dossier, on page 18. (This was the stuff given by Igor Divyekin, who as I understand it was allegedly Steele's source, yes?)
The document is 412 pages long, and there were dozens of other justifications cited, most of which are common knowledge now thanks to the Mueller report and the subsequent impeachment proceedings concerning Trump's phone call in Ukraine. Lawyers are of course going to pounce on that minutia because that's their job, but the essential thrust was - hey, Trump's acting really weird, here's the particulars. And a laundry list was provided as justification, one of which happened to be that dossier.
It certainly wasn't the big reason, or even remotely the biggest, not that I saw. I saw dozens of articulated pieces of context. The whole doesn't fall down because one of them turned out to be unproven innuendo, if you're going to call that warrant bogus you've gotta knock down all of them. And 99% of those facts, unfortunately are public record.
There was plenty there in those other 411 pages to get a valid warrant and at least start looking.
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I honestly don't know why you bother with them.
Mar 19, 2022, 3:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: This is how actual media REALLY works ] |
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They have their narrative fed to them by their chosen activist right-wing media sources that do EXACTLY what they claim the MSM does yet they never see the irony and hypocrisy.
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All-TigerNet [13136]
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Re: I honestly don't know why you bother with them.
Mar 19, 2022, 3:17 PM
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Which side was right?
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Legend [18024]
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Exactly the mentality of what I'm talking about.
Mar 19, 2022, 3:24 PM
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thinking there are "sides," like in a game.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Exactly the mentality of what I'm talking about.
Mar 19, 2022, 4:01 PM
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Legend [18024]
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I guess that's true. Not buying into the game of "sides"
Mar 19, 2022, 4:53 PM
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is, itself, technically a "side." I guess I should make it more nuanced and say that the MSM (*whatever definition you want to define that as) is one that isn't playing the "activist narrative" game like the right-wing is doing. That was the point I was trying to make about playing "sides." The "us vs them" narrative is only coming from one "side." And the reason they do that is to get you to only listen to their voice in order to make money off of you. Their intention isn't to inform, but to make money through selling that narrative. Say whatever you want about the MSM, but I think most believe they are trying to "inform" and aren't trying to play any sort of "us vs them" game. Now you can question their quality at achieving that goal and some more than others probably come pretty dang close to having similar models to what the right-wing is doing, but those are more the exception than the rule, IMO.
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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Legend [18024]
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Eye see what you did there.***
Mar 19, 2022, 5:02 PM
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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"Eyes Wide Open"....***
Mar 19, 2022, 5:04 PM
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Legend [18024]
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"Iris just thinking that!"***
Mar 19, 2022, 5:07 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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110%er [7139]
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Re: How actual media works: Executive editors vs. reporters
Mar 20, 2022, 2:54 PM
[ in reply to This is how actual media REALLY works ] |
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To KeoweeIndians® and quozzel (not that this means shizz to you or anyone), but your threads and back-and-forth are educational as far as well articulated perspectives coming from different points of view.
However, the focus on news REPORTERS is not the reason for the problem.
Problem #1: It's the EXECUTIVE EDITORS of the news organizations. They decide who says what and how they say it. The TV reports are simply articulate actors (even if those reporters actually possess true reporting skills and have a modicum of honesty in their professional lives). If they don't do what the Executive Editors tell them, then that will happen once ... and then they are out.
Problem #2: This sounds communistic, but it needs to be said. News organizations which are simply a unit of a larger corporate or private entity, as opposed to an independent organization whose survival depends solely upon their effectiveness in reporting timely, relevant and ... wait for it, wait for it ... HONEST news is what should be required of the 4th estate.
EXAMPLE:
ABC News (now only a rounding error in Disney's books). Per Disney's 2021 Annual report, their broadcast business (i.e., on air stuff ... not HULU, ESPN, FX, or their subscription products) generated $3.2B in revenues. (These revenues are part of Disney's "linear" broadcast products; ABC News is a small [but not broken-out] piece of this. Disney's overall 2021 revenues were $61.8B.
ABC News is so small that they only reference which I could find in Disney's annual report was on page 6 (and this reference did not give financial details) of Disney's 123 page annual report. (I'm admitting to not having scanned over but the first 50 pages, have at it if you want.)
I'll speculate that ABC News is little more than a rounding error on Disney's books.
SUMMARY: If the 4th Estate is to have value to the citizens of the United States, then honest reporting of the news has to have meaning to the entities which provide programming and/or news publications / websites.
Right now, we have darn little of this, and the severity of the consequences are becoming more apparent every day.
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Legend [19933]
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All-TigerNet [12249]
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Follow the truth and facts wherever it may lead...
Mar 19, 2022, 10:20 AM
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If only that were the number one objective for the corporate MSM... instead we get narrative driven journalism.
The corporate media controls most of the airwaves and print press (including the small town newspapers) in the USA. The vast majority of corporate media is controlled by the ideological left but it is also true that the "conservative" Fox and Sky News are also corporate MSM outlets as well.
In order to fill their airtime and web pages they all play the same game - create discord in our society by taking the smallest of disagreements and turn them into gaping canyons of mostly screaming babble. Media driven narratives have now overtaken the facts and objective truth. The MSM modus operandi is to establish a narrative and ignore, obfuscate, or simply lie about anything counter to the narrative. The affect of all this is that journalism as a true profession no longer exists in the classic sense of unbiased observers reporting facts. Most of the modern journalists have become political agitators with ideological dogma to push.
When a majority of the press is committed to an ideological narrative in lieu of objective truth and factual reporting, society at large begins to distrust everything coming out of the media. If the condition lasts long enough the lack of transparency and truth will eventually deteriorate to the point that society distrusts it's very institutions because they know the media reporting on those institutions is narrative driven.
The elite political class love the modern day narrative journalism - it plays right into their hands. They know they will never be fact checked or challenged by their media allies and can always count on them to blast any opposition. There is a reason politicians stick to their like minded ideological media for interviews/access and very rarely (if ever) cross over to "unfriendly" media. The politicians love the echo chamber press and feed it daily. If journalists were true professionals, the politicians wouldn't be able play this game as there would be no safe havens in the media for these political elites and we the people would be much better served by the "power of the press".
I can only guess what the long term damage of an ideologically narrative driven, disingenuous media is going to be. However, we are already seeing that it has led to a culture of zero accountability from our Government. Regardless of who is running our Government (left, right, moderate) - when there is zero accountability in Government - a free society is in deep trouble.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Follow the truth and facts wherever it may lead...
Mar 19, 2022, 10:44 AM
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Oh, there's no doubt sensationalism and the demands of the market affects how the big outlets put out their news, and tailor it to specific biases and sensibilities. We can talk about that all day, and how it's dumbed us down. "News as you like it" is dangerous, and we've gotta figure out a way to drag it back to center.
I also really despise the trend - especially in modern cable news - for the anchors to blur the line between straight reporting and editorializing, between reporting and Infotainment. Are we advocating or reporting here? Because you seem confused, Don Lemon. You seem really confused about that, Rachel Maddow. And you were a good journalist once.
But I'll argue all day that the reporters themselves, especially the ones who take their craft seriously, have altered their trade one iota. In some ways they're vastly better at it than they ever were because they have so much better access to information. The really good reporters are really sharp - sometimes astoundingly so - and they know a bunch.
We can argue about the spin that happens after the straight reporting process, how ownership groups all have their own specific biases and agendas (I mean, Bloomberg, anybody...really?), but there's still plenty of smaller and even really big, independently-owned papers like The Guardian it keeps the others honest. Because outing and busting await...if they outright lie. I point out the above example because it's exactly what happens if you get it wrong.
Conservative media has no such restrictions. It simply isn't the same industry, and it doesn't exist for the same purpose...actually the vast majority of "conservative media" isn't conservative media at all, they're just anti-media (not the same thing at all), and they exist only to blunt the effect of actual news and deliberately disinform the public. (This is exactly why Roger Ailes, Nixon's former press secretary, founded Fox News.) They get cold busted every day for outright bullsh!t - I mean, slamming Tucker is an outright sub-niche in the industry unto itself - and these turds keep right on keeping on, giving the finger to any kind of accountability or even the notion that there is actual truth and that it's possible to find and speak. (They really want us to believe it isn't. "Everybody lies all the time", they claim, nihilistically.) Most of their publications are less than 25 years old - Fox is the oldest! - and are usually less than 10. They're almost always owned by specific owners for specific political purposes, or list no ownership at all, and some are even outright Russian misinformation sites. Some of them - and this is getting into really dangerous territory - are pay-for-play, outright engines of character assassination. National Enquirer got that way. Project Veritas is.
The MSM is a lot less than perfect, and we could talk endlessly about ways to make it better, because its flaws created the very space that the cancer that is "conservative media" grew into. But it's also the only actual media, and it does have some accountability built into its model that will always remain as long as it continues to compete against itself.
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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Reporter < Editor < Owner < Bankstas ... Channeled narrative.***
Mar 19, 2022, 10:51 AM
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CU Medallion [58417]
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^^^ The big lie that every liberal friend I know believes
Mar 19, 2022, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Follow the truth and facts wherever it may lead... ] |
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with their whole heart. That the "conservative media" (Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc etc) is totally bogus and exists only to drive a dangerous, extremist, hate-filled right-wing false ideological narrative for political purposes, while no such media equivelent exists for left leaning liberals, and the mainstream media, while not perfect, is still mostly just a bunch of honest, hardworking people who are working hard to uncover and deliver the objective truth to Americans, untainted by political or idealogical bias.
They are totally blind to their own raging bias and therefore refuse to acknowledge their contribution to the whole problem.
I'm generally conservative, I guess, but I'm decidedly not what would traditionally be considered conservative on some issues. Yet, I acknowledge my own biases and try to work on them when they hinder my objectivity. I know Fox News is heavily biased and totally slanted. I know Rush Limbaugh wasn't trying to be politically objective. I realize there is a thriving right wing media that has cast objectivity to the wind and has little credibility; I get it. Yet, I don't have a single liberal or democrat friend who can admit that there is another side to that coin, and is willing to meet me in the middle. Instead, they live in a cocoon of arrogance and condescension, where THEY are insulated from the foibles of human nature.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: ^^^ The big lie that every liberal friend I know believes
Mar 20, 2022, 10:20 AM
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This is unfortunately true. It wasn't, at one point. Fox has lost its way and it's dangerous, dangerous, dangerous, and put us in a bad spot.
Fox, at its inception, wasn't really founded as anti-media, at least not on paper. Roger Ailes, Nixon's former press secretary, was angry at how the press had treated Nixon and he aligned himself with Rupert Murdoch, who was an English/Australian media magnate who owned at that point something like 75% of the media in Australia and a significant chunk (20%+) in England, and founded Fox News, not as anti-media, but as a place where conservatives would have more voice. Just one problem: Murdoch wasn't American, and American law forbade foreign ownership of American press, for the obvious reason: we didn't want foreigners pumping their propaganda into our media space.
So Murdoch did an end run. He foreswore his Australian citizenship...and got himself named American. But he isn't. He's actually quite contemptuous of us.
And for a long time, Fox was just a normal news organization, with a quality newsroom built by Roger Ailes. It leaned right but IMHO that was healthy, it provided a counterweight to a MSM that was getting away from the equal-time laws that got ended in the '80's and was beginning to drift too far left. But Ailes got driven out - owing mostly to the fact that he loved his leggy nerd-rimmed blondes and thought they should all love him back - and over time it became more and more obvious that its Infotainers like Hannity and Bill O'Reilly were driving their ratings...and so they made the conscious decision to double down on that. In came even more slanted Infotainers like Tucker and Laura Ingraham and a host of others. And their actual legitmate reporters and producers one and all like Shep Smith and Chris Wallace began leaving en masse. Bret Baer's the only one left.
And the Murdochs still aren't American, whatever their official citizenship cards say. They live mostly in Australia - though Rupert lives primarily in England - and when, say, COVID hit, they completed retreated away back to COVID-free Australia and backed lockdowns and harsh health measures in Australia even as they gave Tucker free reign to rage against them here.
The Murdochs do not care about the greater good of America, and they don't care about democracy. They're oligarchs themselves, blue-bloods, and they're contemptuous of the masses...just as Tucker Carlson has admitted he is. (Rupert has openly confessed his admiration for "well run authoritarian states" on several occasions.)
Don't get me started on OAN, Newsmax, Infowars, and that mess. They're beyond awful, literally as bad as and indistinguishable from Russian State TV, and anybody who watches them and believes them needs to be lobotomized.
Mind, and I'll keep saying this - this does not mean I'm even close to happy with the state of the MSM. I am not, and as I said, I think their own deficiencies and blind spots have created exactly the space that this malignant tumor now occupies. And it's their fault because they were not advocating for the common man or his viewpoint nearly as much as they believed and they do not realize how leftist and urban-centric and worse, urbane they've become. If you're not a sophisticant they're increasingly contemptuous of you. Rather than trying to talk to you where you live they just ignore you.
A really bright guy called Einstein once said: "If you can't explain what you're doing, it isn't worth doing." They're failing at that. Instead of trying to reach Ordinary Joe, they just dismiss him...and conservative media has grabbed hold of that audience and turned it against the MSM...and it's the MSM's fault for not servicing those potential viewers.
Someone else did. The problem is, those people are Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: ^^^ The big lie that every liberal friend I know believes
May 21, 2022, 5:30 PM
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Follow the truth and facts wherever it may lead...
Mar 19, 2022, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to Follow the truth and facts wherever it may lead... ] |
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Jon Stewart did a recent thing on this and the final line sums it up, "If anything is gonna kill our Democracy, it's gonna be NewsCum". He spends about 5 minutes on the right and the remaining on the MSM and primarily the Mueller report. The funniest thing was the "bombshell, bombshell, bombshell after bombshell" lines. Anyway, here it is if interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzeoe4m1t9Q
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110%er [5687]
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Re: This is how actual media works
Mar 20, 2022, 10:54 AM
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Axios highly reputable? Hardly.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: This is how actual media works
Mar 20, 2022, 12:03 PM
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Sorry. Axios is very well-respected, regardless of your reflexive Tucker curl-up-your-lip-and-scoff, which is pretty much the only form of expression you have...which is, by the way, completely meaningless in an argument. Nobody gives a crap about your opinion, cite supporting evidence. (You never do.)
By those in the biz, Axios is considered media elite, and a destination job. Which is why it's very much against the normal run of play that CNN would be busting Axios for blowing fact checks. And highly embarrassing for Axios, which relies absolutely zero per cent on slick marketing and glossy product 100% on content and credibility to drive a readership base that worries about that...admittedly a niche market. But they're entirely content-driven.
MBFC's review is very typical of the common perception of Axios among the informed...though that perception will likely take some dings as a result of this blown story. Publications that lean on their credibility (not CNN and Fox!) are much more affected when that credibility is impugned.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/axios/ Axios LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording
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Rock Defender [53]
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The informed lol
Mar 20, 2022, 12:43 PM
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110%er [5687]
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Re: The informed lol
Mar 20, 2022, 5:27 PM
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Yeah, that's it.
I know Q's type. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. Everyone tries to avoid talking to him fearing a 30 minute conversation centered on how smart he is. Attorney, right? The worst.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: The informed lol
Mar 21, 2022, 5:55 AM
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LOL. I know I'm distinctly not the smartest guy in the room. I'm not even the smartest guy on this forum. I have a genuine appreciation for my own limitations. Pick any of the various bundles of traits that could be measured for "intelligence" and you'll find somebody here better at me at any of them. And no, I'm not an attorney.
Want an actual legal mind? Spooneye's your guy. Want an engineering math brain? Flow, Neal in NC, even yourself. Want somebody you never, ever wanna run into on Jeopardy, somebody who Knows Everything? Tiggity's your man, and Obed's not far behind him. Want the kind of guy you scream and run away from when you see him across the debate table from you? Catahoula. Want a the kind of 3D artist who can visualize whole empires in his head? Tigerbalm. It goes on and on.
I don't really consider myself all that smart. I mean, I'm okay at most things. But there's lots of people who are...better. At just about anything.
I do have strongly held opinions that I've thought about a lot, and I'm not tribal. Which I've noticed is deeply confusing for those who are.
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110%er [7139]
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Re: The informed lol - - c'mon knock off the poor-mouthing
Mar 21, 2022, 7:49 AM
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No need for poor-mouthing. There are many posters here who have provided really smart perspectives on this media controversy; you are among them.
But to blame it on journalists per se is a mistake. Maybe in the distant past (i.e., Walter Cronkite / Huntley & Brinkley / Barbara Walters / Woodward & Bernstein / Sam Donaldson era people), they were ideologically driven. And I do agree that the education system's philosophy has long been to subtly indoctrinate journalist students to embrace leftist viewpoints.
However, the modern journalist is driven by the Executive Editors of the news organization that employes them.
What motivates the Executive Editors? Maybe political ideology to some degree. But I suspect that their main slant to push Democrat political agendas reflects the business interests of their corporate parent.
Example 1: General Electric, back when they owned NBC News. NBC News was but a tiny rounding error in GE's books. Democrat administration got the Too Big To Fail (TBTF) agenda into play, and also sent ~ $140B GE's way. TBTF gave GE Capital (which was by far GE's biggest business back in 2009) a 25 basis point borrowing advantage vs. non-TBTF competitors. A 25 basis point advantage for a huge borrower is BIG money. The ~$140B loan speaks for itself. GE CEO Jeff Immelt (a registered Republican) infamously said 'We're all Democrats now.' He drove the managing editors of NBC News to push the Democrat party agenda.
Example 2: Disney Company and ABC. ABC News is also only a rounding error on Disney's books. Democrat policies of open borders and pandering to the "non white" demographics is meant to help attract foreign visitors to make their vacations in the USA. Disney's hotel + amusement theme park business is FAR larger than their (relatively speaking) tiny ABC News unit. But ABC News has a disproportionate influence with the American voter. Disney, like GE a few years ago, is more than happy for their news media organizations to go deep six if their news organizations are successful in propagandizing the American public to embrace Democrat politics.
Fix the conflict of interest for diversified corporate owners of the news organizations; this will force the news organizations to revert to a 'be truthful or go out of business' reporting accumen.
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Hall of Famer [24800]
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