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TigerNet Elite [73592]
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Orange Immortal [65674]
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Just thinking out loud ...
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Aug 20, 2023, 1:11 PM
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Politicians and complict, activist media have worked so hard to demonize "the other side", a huge part of the electorate has become convinced that our government is inherently corrupt, no longer works for or represents them, and our entire system and long standing institutions are fundamentally flawed.
In this case, a huge percentage of voters, perhaps nearly half of the country, are totally convinced that Trump is being wrongly persecuted (and prosecuted) because they distrust and despise the other side that is using the power of the federal government to make it all happen.
Many other Americans have become totally convinced that America is so fundamentally flawed and rotten at it's core, and that everything is set up to benefit white heterosexual christian males, all to the detriment and necessary oppression of all others.
I'm not saying the two are equivelent, as they reflect two very different situations. The point is both, however, are based on some actual truths, which have been exaggerated and twisted for political gain, and the result is wrong, distorted conclusions about America, our system of government, and it's institutions. This false belief, if anybody wants to talk about "misinformation", and the deep, serious, growing division it creates, is THE problem as far as I am concerned.
We see this being played out today in many ways, and in this case, the more criminal charges Trump is hit with, the more his support grows.
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Gridiron Giant [15538]
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Re: Just thinking out loud ...
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Aug 20, 2023, 2:25 PM
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^^this
It isn't about people worshipping Trump as so many claim or want to believe.
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Orange Immortal [65674]
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To be clear, a lot of people do worship Trump.
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Aug 20, 2023, 3:04 PM
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I mean they think he is the greatest president ever who does no wrong. It's very cult-like and anybody who opposes him or his ideas is an enemy. I have a lot of good friends who are like that. That all-or-nothing one-sidedness is what I'm talking about, and is a symptom of the division and lack of faith in our government that drives it.
Of course, if our government is totally corrupt, and if our systems and institutions are corrupt, then yes, America is lost, and we need to take up arms now and prepare to kill or be killed. If you believe the last election was rigged, and future elections will be as well, then yes we are doomed now, and the American experiment has failed completely, and all of the lofty ideals that underpin it have failed, and all hopes and dreams based on all of that are shot.
OF COURSE THERE ARE PROBLEMS, some very serious ones; but there always were, and always will be. I don't believe it's over. I don't think America is done. The key is faith in the ideals and principles that it is all based on, which gave us a great system for working through all of the inevitable problems, and should give us the belief that we can get the train back on the track, even if it goes off of the rails from time to time, without hating those who disagree about the best way to do it.
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Clemson Conqueror [11569]
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Re: To be clear, people are right to distrust govt
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Aug 20, 2023, 9:11 PM
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The problem isn’t people who have evolved into distrusting the federal government.
The problem is that the federal government and the federal bureaucracy have so broadly (and in some cases, deeply) committed what would be indictable crimes if the government would be honest enough to indict itself.
Everyone knows about the Trump / Russia hoax, and that FBI, CIA, and DoJ conspired with the Hillary campaign to pay a foreign contractor to create a fake dossier … just so that they could convict Trump on false charges.
More recently, we have learned that the IRS refused to seek punishment for Hunter Biden’s obvious (and serious) tax evasion schemes.
Numerous other highly public misdeeds from fed. govt law agencies have occurred in recent times.
Here is the point: When federal govt entities that write laws, prosecute, enforce laws, collect taxes, provide medicinal recommendations / protect the public health etc etc have been exposed for lying and crimes, it is perfectly reasonable to be suspicious of EVERYTHING that comes forth from those govt entities.
(?). If a person is known to criminally betray you on occassion, but also does right by you on occassion, then should the person simply believe that all subsequent deeds should be trusted as truthful / righteous intent?
Of course not.
(*). For the American public's faith to be restored in the federal govt, two preconditions must be met:
(1). The govt must admit their crimes. Unambiguously and comprehensively.
(2). The govt must PROVE, through actions and behaviors over time, that they are truly and totally committed to serving the public. Not wealthy entities and/or political entities that make the agencies and their employees wealthier & more powerful.
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Orange Immortal [65674]
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If so, then we are done.
Aug 20, 2023, 11:50 PM
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We can't expect to work within a system that is that broken, that far gone. Why would we, how could we if it is so rigged, and so corrupt that we can't trust or believe anything any of them say? The only answer would be anarchy, violence in the streets. We are already seeing it. Don't agree with the election? Storm the capitol and overturn the election. Don't agree with laws or the police? Burn stuff down and loot.
I don't buy it, however. I think that thinking is wrong. I believe the right leaders can start turning it around. We need leaders who deliver the right message in the right way, that reaches all Americans in a way that unifies, instead of preaching to their "side" and hoping that gets enough votes to win so they can continue the war against the other side.
Sure, there is too much corruption in government, and government is too big and intrusive. But it's the people in government, not the basic system and the institutions themsleves that are the problem. Our systems of government and justice may need some work, but they are founded on timeless, solid principles and are worth fixing and preserving. And it can be done without the full confessional by the government; it will have to be, as that will never happen.
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National Champion [7763]
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Problem being is that those leaders won't be on the ballot.***
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Aug 21, 2023, 8:30 AM
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Orange Immortal [65674]
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It sure doesn't look like it at this point.***
Aug 21, 2023, 8:53 AM
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Legend [6877]
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Re: If so, then we are done.
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Aug 21, 2023, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to If so, then we are done. ] |
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One of the root causes of the problems in gov't is the continued decline in morality of the people in gov't, and it is being led by the left.
The left is willing to do anything - lie, cheat, and steal - to get their way. It has been this way a long time. The left has run over the right due to the right's inability/unwillingness to get down and dirty with them.
Then you have the forces driving the USA to socialism and globalism. There are many powerful people supporting this with nearly infinite amounts of money.
The environment is very complex.
Suggesting that one person, the right leader, could turn it around is a bit naïve IMO. I think it could happen, but won't happen because it would require the stars to align and would require so many people to abandon their woke religion that is deeply entrenched as this point.
Yes, the USA has apexed in global influence. It's all downhill from here. Maybe some black swan event will turn it around, but given the current course and momentum, the best years of the USA are in the rear-view mirror - from the 1950s to the mid 1990s.
The sad part of this is in 2050, 2060, 2070 when the country is a chithole with stifling bureaucracy and no global influence, no one will remember what it used to be like.
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National Champion [7763]
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The problem really boils down to the fact that
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Aug 21, 2023, 10:35 AM
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the President really isn't in charge of anything. They've created a bureaucracy that makes laws errrr.. regulations without any voter implications. The country is actually being run by unelected agencies. At least it sure does seem like it.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Exactly. Biden isn't compromised so much by foreign govts.
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Aug 21, 2023, 1:15 PM
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as he is by the current administration that pulls his Puppet strings...
Keeping him President maintains their agenda.
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Game Changer [1979]
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Interesting. The Republican leader is indicted for lying, cheating, and stealing.***
Aug 21, 2023, 12:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: If so, then we are done. ] |
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Orange Blooded [2058]
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Re: If so, then we are done.
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Aug 21, 2023, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: If so, then we are done. ] |
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How are you so wrong on almost every issue? That takes some effort.
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Orange Blooded [3230]
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TigerNet Elite [73592]
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Proof?***
Aug 20, 2023, 3:58 PM
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CU Medallion [19039]
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One recent example:
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Aug 20, 2023, 4:49 PM
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Paw Master [17273]
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Maybe they like his policies better.***
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Aug 20, 2023, 5:10 PM
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Orange Blooded [3230]
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Re: Maybe they like his policies better.***
Aug 21, 2023, 5:57 PM
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They have no idea what his policies are. Trump doesn't even know. It's not his policies. It's his gibberish they love. They are suckered. They fall for it.
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TigerNet Elite [73592]
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Wait, so 63% of people who trust friends and family
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Aug 20, 2023, 5:12 PM
[ in reply to One recent example: ] |
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Are cult members too?
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CU Medallion [19039]
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Putting Trump above everyone else is pretty cultish...
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Aug 20, 2023, 5:31 PM
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especially when it comes to "telling the truth." It's a sign of unhealthy adoration.
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TigerNet Elite [73592]
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Lol, ok***
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Aug 20, 2023, 5:32 PM
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Hall of Famer [8143]
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Paw Master [17273]
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For real.
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Aug 20, 2023, 9:32 PM
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‘member when he said:
I walked with the king
I never discussed Hunter’s business
I watched that bridge collapse
Beau died in Iraq
I was top of my class
The driver that killed my wife was drunk
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TigerNet Icon [152665]
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Right. Now show us the poll where Democrats believe
Aug 21, 2023, 9:22 AM
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Joe Biden over family members and religious leaders, Mr. Whatabout.
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Clemson Conqueror [11569]
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Re: One recent example: Fools gold poll
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Aug 20, 2023, 9:39 PM
[ in reply to One recent example: ] |
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This particular poll has ferreted out the fools.
Family members & friends (plural) that they don’t trust. 63% have at least one from among several that they don’t trust.
Conservative media figures (plural) that they don’t trust. 56% have at least one from among several that they don’t trust.
Religious leaders (plural) that they don’t trust. 42% have at least one from among several that they don’t trust.
Trump (singular) that 29% of Trump voters don’t trust.
To the lazy observer who gleefully laughs at the insanity of how the Trump ‘cult’ trusts him more than other ‘core value’ groups, those fools don’t catch on that 29% of Trump voters don’t (presumably, entirely) trust him.
(*). The salient observation would be ‘why do a significant minority of voters who don’t entirely trust Trump still intend to vote for him’?
Here are some answers from someone from within that 29% (e.g., me) that is still a Trump voter:
Proven outstanding record of effective foreign policy, domestic policy, and demographic unity record vs. Biden, Harris, Newsome, Whitmer, etc all Democrats.
More likely than any Democrat POTUS candidate, with the exception of RFK, Jr, to sincerely try to reform the Fed govt’s corrupt bureaucracy.
Less likely to be corrupted by bribes (because he’s already extremely wealthy) than any of the Democrats.
Incredible energy and toughness in light of the dealing with the litany of politically motivated nuisance suits, nearly all of which have the sole objective of keeping Trump from winning the presidency again.
(*). I don’t trust Trump to get try and get to the bottom of the US Govt’s role in weaponizing ‘normal’ coronavirus to create COVID 19.
OK, that’s about it.
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CU Medallion [19039]
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"Incredible energy and toughness"
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Aug 20, 2023, 10:45 PM
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Legend [6877]
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Re: "Incredible energy and toughness"
Aug 21, 2023, 9:27 AM
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You are making a point against yourself. SMH.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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WOW! The opportunity for gifs/memes to contrast is almost
Aug 21, 2023, 8:07 AM
[ in reply to "Incredible energy and toughness" ] |
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infinite... "Are you serious, Clark?"
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CU Medallion [19039]
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Only if they are of Trump's incredible energy and toughness
Aug 21, 2023, 5:38 PM
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since that's the only argument that's been made. If your argument was to contrast Trump with others, you'd first have to show where someone made an argument about someone else other than Trump.
But I'm sure you understood that already, right Russ?
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Throw'em BOTH in the octagon... The comparative was implied
Aug 21, 2023, 6:06 PM
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by the previous 'body' of the conversation. I'm sure YOU understand THAT.
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CU Medallion [19039]
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lol, no it wasn't.***
Aug 21, 2023, 7:03 PM
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Tiger Titan [48811]
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Re: One recent example: Fools gold poll
Aug 21, 2023, 8:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: One recent example: Fools gold poll ] |
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Proven outstanding record of effective foreign policy, domestic policy, and demographic unity record
Just LOL no. Especially the unity part. Americans overwhelming despise Trump and we were more divided than ever over him.
And y'all have to own the fact that he AND Biden got us into our current economic issues by printing a bunch of free money.
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Tiger Titan [48811]
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Literal proof of the cult
Aug 21, 2023, 8:16 AM
[ in reply to One recent example: ] |
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And the cultists who would have answered "Trump" are sitting here laughing about it.
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Orange Blooded [2058]
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Re: One recent example:
Aug 21, 2023, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to One recent example: ] |
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Literal insanity. Trump supporters are nuts
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Orange Blooded [2058]
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Um, you are a pretty good example of it actually.***
Aug 21, 2023, 8:55 AM
[ in reply to Proof?*** ] |
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Tiger Titan [48811]
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Not so fast
Aug 21, 2023, 8:14 AM
[ in reply to Just thinking out loud ... ] |
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The polling indicates otherwise. Predictably, we know where Republicans and Democrats stand on this issue. But when it comes to the independents--the people who actually decide elections--more than 50 percent of them consistently in different polls believe Trump should be prosecuted. A much smaller group of them believes he's being unfairly targeted, with several in between (they may feel he was a POS but don't necessarily believe in charges).
Overall, Trump is still viewed very unfavorably by the majority of Americans. It's pure suicide by the GOP that they haven't completely purged him and continue to support him.
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3877
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Now post JoeBi's numbers... and Kumalot's.***
Aug 21, 2023, 1:26 PM
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Campus Hero [13551]
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This has been true for a while
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Aug 21, 2023, 8:24 AM
[ in reply to Just thinking out loud ... ] |
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"our government is inherently corrupt, no longer works for or represents them, and our entire system and long standing institutions are fundamentally flawed."
I'm glad people are (seemingly) starting to recognize it.
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TigerNet Champion [121308]
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Has there ever been an inaugural address from inside Leavenworth?***
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Aug 20, 2023, 4:09 PM
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Orange Blooded [2058]
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This is an indictment on the right’s character
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Aug 20, 2023, 4:44 PM
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Zero question about it.
They either honestly think Trump is innocent or they don’t care if he actually did what he’s accused of. Both are insane.
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Paw Master [17273]
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lol***
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Aug 20, 2023, 5:09 PM
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Orange Blooded [2058]
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That is your general attitude, yes.***
Aug 20, 2023, 10:20 PM
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Legend [6877]
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Orange Blooded [2058]
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Re: That is your general attitude, yes.***
Aug 21, 2023, 9:50 AM
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Be specific in the context of this thread. How am I doing what he is accusing me of?
Go on, let’s see it.
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Orange Blooded [2058]
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Re: That is your general attitude, yes.***
Aug 21, 2023, 1:11 PM
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Thats what I thought
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