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All-TigerNet [5706]
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Anyone that thinks Ryan Day is a better coach than Dabo has no
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Jan 19, 2025, 3:20 PM
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Credibility
As Jim Harbaugh rightly pointed out, Ryan Day was born on 3rd base
He has literally coached THE most talented college football team in each of the last 6 seasons
Best players money can buy. Unlimited NIL funds.
Ohio State’s NIL budget has zero to do with his talent as a coach.
He can win it all this year and he will still be 3-4 natties short of where Ohio State should have performed
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Oculus Spirit [44289]
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Re: Anyone that thinks Ryan Day is a better coach than Dabo has no
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Jan 19, 2025, 3:34 PM
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No doubt. If you can’t win there you may want to give up the profession.
Spurrier and Saban even mentioned good players make good coaches. Dabo looked like a hero when we had the elite talent. Now people act like he has forgotten how to coach. Talent level has fell off, and could care less what the class rankings have been over the last few years because my eyes is telling me we are a step or 2 behind where we once were. Blessed to have lived through 3 national championships. Some teams will never get one.
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All-Conference [416]
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Re: Anyone that thinks Ryan Day is a better coach than Dabo has no
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Jan 19, 2025, 3:39 PM
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Ryan Day gets a lifetime supply of Just For Men beard dye. I hate to say that OSU has it going on. I wonder how it is for assistant coaches working under him and if any will leave for NFL or a head coaching gig somewhere else.
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Dynasty Maker [3383]
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Re: Anyone that thinks Ryan Day is a better coach than Dabo has no
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Jan 19, 2025, 3:50 PM
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According to my neighbor last night, this may be the last Ryan Day game at OSU tomorrow. Says that after the Michigan game that he had to go get his kids out school one day it got so bad. Says interviews w/his wife indicate that she’s not happy. Also says that Day grew up in the northeast. Saying don’t be surprised if he takes the OC job for Mike Vrabel and the Patriots. Thought that was interesting.
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1st Rounder [629]
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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Dabo has been a more successful coach throughout his career
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Jan 19, 2025, 3:40 PM
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but a good argument can be made that Day is the better coach now.
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Hall of Famer [9002]
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LOL***
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Jan 19, 2025, 3:41 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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Okay, Ill bite. Starting a new thread now.***
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Jan 19, 2025, 4:10 PM
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All-TigerNet [5706]
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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Yes, I just did. Please see new thread I created.***
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Jan 19, 2025, 5:03 PM
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Clemson Icon [26212]
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Ring of Honor [22708]
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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I dont see any reasonable data to support Dabo being a better coach currently.
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Jan 19, 2025, 7:04 PM
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Since Day’s OSU team blew us out in the playoffs in 2020, Day’s teams have had better overall and conference records despite playing a tougher strength of schedule. Day has also done better versus top 10 opponents, recruited better, and graduated his players at a higher rate.
Again, Dabo’s entire body of work is better than Day’s, based on what Dabo did in the 2010s, but Day’s most recent work is better and his program is currently better.
Hopefully Dabo’s newfound desire to use the portal, embrace NIL, and hire more qualified coaches will get us back to being an elite program like Ohio State currently is.
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Starter [258]
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Re: I dont see any reasonable data to support Dabo being a better coach currently.
Jan 19, 2025, 8:56 PM
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Day has graduated his players at a higher rate than Dabo? Can you provide a source to that claim?
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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Starter [258]
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Interesting. However, a couple thoughts...
Jan 20, 2025, 11:29 AM
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1) You argued that Day had better graduation rates than Dabo. APR only measures a team's academic performance based on whether the eligibility and retention of the student athletes for the sport. It does not provide a measure for graduation rates.
2a) In terms of graduation rates, according to Ryan Day's bio on OSU's website, their football team received it's highest Graduation Rate ever at 87%. (Source: https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/ryan-day/1779).
2b) However, Clemson has routinely had high graduation rates under Dabo with a 99% graduation rate in 2023 (source: https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-football/news/clemson-ranked-no.-1-nationally-in-graduation-success-rate-among-public-schools-43390?)
3) If you want to argue using the APR measure, then you will need to adjust your claim regarding graduation rate. However, if you use the APR measure, you're splitting hairs in terms of the differences between the programs. There is not enough of a difference to suggest that they are significantly different with one greater than the other, and OSU only having one-year with a higher APR would only tell me they had one good year. There is not enough of a difference to suggest that either one is better in terms of APR.
And in terms of your prior points about Day being a better coach than Dabo given his success on the football field...
4) Was there a reason you selected to only go back to the 2020 year as a comparison point? Both Day and Dabo have been head coaches for longer than those years. While recent performance can be relevant in terms of trends, focusing only on the last four years introduces bias, ignores the historical trends of the coaches, and reduces statistical reliability. A more apt comparison could have been to use 2019 when Day first became a head coach. However, any comparison between the two leads to the next question...
5) Did you adjust any of these comparisons for the historical benefit from the program and/or injuries during a given season? Statistically speaking, failing to adjust for confounding variables can lead to biased, misleading, or possibly incorrect conclusions. Any coach at Ohio State, regardless of their coaching ability, will automatically have a greater chance for success given the historical blue bloodedness of the program. It is not as hard to sell a kid on playing at Ohio State given their national exposure and fandom for decades.
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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Both Dabo and Day do a good job on the academic side of things.
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Jan 20, 2025, 12:17 PM
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I included APR info since Ohio State has been the best in college football in that metric. Both coaches clearly want their players to go to class and graduate.
I chose the last few years because the new decade makes for an easy point of comparison, for two reasons:
1. Our last head-to-head game against Ohio State was in 2020, so starting there and looking forward seems logical.
2. Using the last few years encompasses this current era of college football. The transfer portal moving to the current system of not requiring players to sit out a year changed things in college football, as did the introduction of NIL.
You lost me with your comment about Day having an easier job at Ohio State. While Ohio State is considered a "blue blood," there are many here to consider Clemson a "blue blood" at this point as well. There have actually been discussions about it here within the last week.
Regardless, Dabo elevated our program to being one of the best in college football. Along with that came the ability to recruit nationally and get elite players. If anything, we had an advantage going into this decade since we had more recent high-level success at that time. Moreover, we play in a much weaker conference, which should theoretically make it easier for us to win more games, win our conference, and make the playoffs.
To say that Ohio State basically guarantees themselves of success regardless of their coach - simply because they are a "blue blood" is crazy. Coaching still matters a lot. So does recruiting the best players.
A basic question to ask yourself is this: if Clemson had been in the Big 10 starting in 2021, how do you think we would have fared? Honestly, I doubt we would have won a single Big 10 championship. I also doubt that we would have made the playoffs.
Conversely, put Ohio State in the ACC starting in 2021. How do you think they would have fared? I predict that they would have at least a couple, if not several, ACC titles and would have made the playoffs 2-3 times.
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Starter [258]
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Re: Both Dabo and Day do a good job on the academic side of things.
Jan 20, 2025, 1:17 PM
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Again, if you want to use APR, then you need to adjust your claim that Day had a better 2023 measure of academic eligibility and retention, which is different than graduation rates (which is what you originally claimed). But this claim is only valid for 2023. Using your set year of APR measures since 2020, Clemson has an average APR of 996.3 while Ohio State's APR is 994.7. I would not classify Ohio State as being the best in that measure outside of 2023, which changes the parameters with which you are making your comparison and further introduces subjective bias.
I get the idea of looking at the 2020 season to now, but since Day has been the head coach since 2019, it seems very suspect to ignore a single season particularly when both schools played one another that year. It would not affect your unadjusted comparisons significantly.
As for losing you, I apologize for being unclear. To clarify, I never stated that Day has an easier job at Ohio State. I stated that a coach at Ohio State will have a greater chance for success. This does not mean that they will automatically be successful, as whether they are successful does depend on their coaching, recruiting, etc. But Ohio State's program and brand will allot them opportunities to reach more high profile recruits and receive the benefit of the doubt among AP voters. For instance, why did Ohio State leap both TCU and Baylor for the first college football playoff? Why was Ohio State awarded a chance to play for the 2007 National Championship despite playing a far weaker schedule relative to other top 5 teams and losing to non-ranked Illinois? It's why Ohio State expects national championships every year, and why Ryan Day (despite the success you mention) was (and still might be to some degree) on the hot seat going into this year's college football playoff.
Instead of making the argument of how well would the schools have been if they were in different conferences, which is different than whether one coach is better than the other coach, ask yourself what the success of the coaches would have been if you had them switch schools? Ryan Day has had the talent to win national championships and he has not. When Dabo had that talent, he did.
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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APR is based on the prior several years of data.
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Jan 20, 2025, 1:28 PM
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Thus, the most recent APR scores best reflect the last few years we are referring to in this discussion.
I didn't want to edit my post where I spoke in error about graduation rates, as your point stands and the conversation will make more sense to others if I leave it.
Honestly though, we are splitting hairs as both coaches do a great job on the academic side of things.
I didn't purposely leave out Day's first season. As you mentioned, it wouldn't negatively impact the support for him being the better coach currently. They were 13-1, won the Big 10, and finished 3rd in the final poll.
Sorry if you think I am introducing bias to the comparison. As I said in another post, if anything I feel that the bias is from those who are trying to argue that Dabo is currently the better coach when there is little to no evidence to support it.
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Ultimate Tiger [33457]
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Re: I dont see any reasonable data to support Dabo being a better coach currently.
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Jan 20, 2025, 8:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: I dont see any reasonable data to support Dabo being a better coach currently. ] |
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Don’t take the bait on this exaggerated claim. This metric measures how many players remained in school and academically eligible for the season. That’s all. Graduation is not a factor at all. And OSU only scored higher than Clemson for one academic year, 2022-2023 on this metric. So this is simply data that has been Cherry picked and exaggerated to support his agenda. The link to the NCAA site for this metric is attached if you want to see the results for more than the one season that was selected for the Eleven Warriors article he is using for justification.
https://web3.ncaa.org/aprsearch/aprsearch
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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If you prefer to focus on graduation rates instead, that's fine.
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Jan 20, 2025, 12:20 PM
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Dabo has a slightly higher graduation rate than Day does. Day has a better APR than Dabo does. Both do a very good job on the academic side of things.
In terms of coaching metrics, Day still has a better overall record (against a tougher schedule), better conference record (against a tougher schedule), better record against top 10 teams, better recruiting, and has adapted to the current era of college football better. He also has a deeper playoff run than Daob has had recently.
Again, this shouldn't even be a debate. Some of you are making yourself look silly.
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Ultimate Tiger [33457]
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Re: If you prefer to focus on graduation rates instead, that's fine.
Jan 20, 2025, 4:05 PM
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Day has a better APR rating for 1 year. That is all.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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If there is anyone alive who I'd want to be our HC more than Dabo...
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Jan 19, 2025, 3:41 PM
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he has either chosen another vocation or he's still in the womb.
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Heisman Winner [78219]
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Re: Anyone that thinks Ryan Day is a better coach than Dabo has no- I saw the
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Jan 19, 2025, 3:41 PM
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list in the post below. I looked at what he has done at Clemson, how he has done it, and his impact on people he cones in contact with. He is a great asset to Clemson and runs a clean and effective program. They I though who would I prefer if I could or had to pick someone else. I found no one I could name. He is the best we've had and probably hope to have.
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All-Pro [783]
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Re: Anyone that thinks Ryan Day is a better coach than Dabo has no- I saw the
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Jan 19, 2025, 4:12 PM
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And chew on this for a moment. Think what Dabo could do with the talent pool and the endless money that they have. I'd say that the Tigers would have way more than three national championships by now. I'm guessing six.
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Orange Phenom [14559]
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Re: Anyone that thinks Ryan Day is a better coach than Dabo has no
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Jan 19, 2025, 4:31 PM
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If you win a championship simply because you can and did outbid everyone else in the auction, I don't think it's terribly impressive.
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Head Coach [940]
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Forget the W and L column, Dabo is also a superior human being***
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Jan 19, 2025, 5:23 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9839]
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THIS! And when he did beat Clemson, his team had played half
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Jan 19, 2025, 6:01 PM
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the games Clemson had that year.
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Clemson Sports Icon [59225]
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You are dead on the money. He has done less with MORE than any coach in the
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Jan 19, 2025, 6:50 PM
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country. I mean...he has danged near gotten very top receiver we have gone after in the past 6 years!
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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LMAO!!
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Jan 19, 2025, 7:08 PM
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Less with more?!? Dabo is the second highest paid coach and has had everything he could need or want including state of the art facilities and one of the highest budgets for assistant coaches.
While Dabo did an amazing job making our program elite, let’s not change history and make it sound like he bootstrapped it on a low budget. He certainly did not.
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Clemson Icon [26212]
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Re: LMAO!!
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Jan 19, 2025, 8:59 PM
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Another irelavant post buy this troll 🙄
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Team Captain [469]
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Re: LMAO!!
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Jan 19, 2025, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to LMAO!! ] |
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I accidently give this dum-arse troll a TU! I can't believe JK is really that stupid to not realize that OSU had a huge advantage covid year. My Gosh... they had six extra weeks to prepare for Clemson!
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Tiger Titan [50655]
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I never said that they didnt have an advantage during the COVID year.
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Jan 20, 2025, 7:11 AM
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They played fewer games which likely made them healthier and better rested. They also had fewer opportunities to play and get better.
Regardless, they beat us by 21 points. That’s all that matters. That, and they have been the better program in the years since.
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Ultimate Tiger [33457]
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Re: I never said that they didnt have an advantage during the COVID year.
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Jan 20, 2025, 8:36 AM
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Spin it! Don’t have to use Dramamine to avoid motion sickness from all that spinning?
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Tiger Titan [50655]
TigerPulse: 79%
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What spin?!?
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Jan 20, 2025, 12:24 PM
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The only spin I've seen in this thread is from those of you who simply can't admit that Day has been the better coach recently.
Rather than taking facts at face value, I've seen all kinds of excuses ranging from Ohio State had an unfair advantage in the playoff game to Day has it easy in recruiting because they are a "blue blood" program.
Spin, spin, spin!
All while ignoring the fact that Day beat Dabo soundly the last time they faced each other and has had the more successful program in the years since.
Just admit it. It should not change the fact that Dabo is (finally) adapting and making what seem to be great changes to our program. These changes should allow us to start winning more big games and making some noise in the playoffs.
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Rival Killer [2708]
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He wasn't given that, he earned that***
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Jan 20, 2025, 6:57 AM
[ in reply to LMAO!! ] |
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Game Changer [1830]
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Re: Anyone that thinks Ryan Day is a better coach than Dabo has no
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Jan 20, 2025, 11:59 AM
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I heard Saban say once that the difference maker between most college coaches is the level of talent they are dealt. The greatest coaches are the ones that can make something out of nothing. You put a good coach into the best talent and he'll win alot of games, but as was said the team will underperform their level of talent more often than not. ATM exemplifes this with the recruiting classes they have gotten and the resulting ranking they have ended up with.
That said, I would not be surprised if OS blows out ND tonight. They just have that much talent and they are largely uninjured as compared to ND.
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Tiger Titan [50655]
TigerPulse: 79%
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I don't think enough people are giving Notre Dame a chance.
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Jan 20, 2025, 12:24 PM
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I'm pulling for Notre Dame for sure, and think they can pull it off.
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Game Changer [1830]
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Re: I don't think enough people are giving Notre Dame a chance.
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Jan 20, 2025, 12:26 PM
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I hope you are right.
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Orange Elite [5159]
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The man reeks of entitlement.
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Jan 20, 2025, 12:19 PM
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Wouldn't trust my son's football future with him.
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