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All-In [42196]
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Thinking about the tragedy
May 26, 2022, 7:59 AM
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I've always said that banning guns or even making them harder to get will NOT (sorry, edit, I missed this crucial word) stop this problem. I don't usually say that much outside of this board when it occurs as I don't want to sound Beto-esque in light of a tragedy, and I know it doesn't go over well with my more liberal friends and family. In short, though, I don't ever like to blame things on the actions of people..
In the same sense that a book in a library isn't going to ruin a kid, cutting off access to a gun won't stop a bad person from doing bad things.
So, putting that aside, and also mental health (we just can't spot these people until it's too late, I'm afraid), I want to address one thing I've seen on this board lately. Some have been outspoken against anything related to any kind of empathy or care or social awareness or just how to be a good person. "Stick to that readin', writin', 'rithetic! Taught to the tune of a hickory stick!"
Because... butbutbut... that should be left up to just the parents!
Well, maybe it's time we revisit this idea. Because when I see the shootings committed by a teenager, I always think, "What in the hell happened to get this kid to that point?" Shooting up anybody never crossed my mind as a teen. But I also grew up in an environment--and not just my household--that taught me good moral foundations and care for other people.
Don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying a lack of this was the cause of what happened or any other shooting because I don't have that info.
But can it really hurt the situation to revisit the concept of teaching better social skills/community unity/being a better person? Even in a ####### math class?
Oh, and arming teachers won't work and will only make things worse. Go away, Miura.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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All-TigerNet [13141]
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Re: Thinking about the tragedy
May 26, 2022, 8:09 AM
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Mass shootings were pretty much non-existent when schools: "Stick to that readin', writin', 'rithetic! Taught to the tune of a hickory stick!"
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All-In [42196]
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Re: Thinking about the tragedy
May 26, 2022, 8:33 AM
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Not really. They just weren't on this level of a body count.
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Heisman Winner [119729]
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I’m in total agreement that society/our culture
May 26, 2022, 8:12 AM
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Has moved away from Personal Responsibility and Parents being responsible for their kids. That has to change. Our welfare system has fallen into this trap. It encourages having babies with little responsibility long term. I won’t get into the church question, but our politicians started in motion a long time ago a country without MORALS.
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All-In [42196]
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Re: I’m in total agreement that society/our culture
May 26, 2022, 8:39 AM
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I grew up in a household and environment where I and I alone was responsible for my behavior. They didn't want to hear that one of my friends talked me into it, or that the teacher wasn't fair, or that I couldn't help my behavior.
I fear there's less and less of that out there now. Too many "I'm a Mama Bear and I'll rip your face off if you come at my kid!"
Sometimes your little ### hole needs someone to come at him, ma'am.
When I was around 10 or so, I popped my mouth off to a group of kids from an adjacent neighborhood. Really talked some ####--by myself--and I paid the price. I didn't go running home crying to my parents because I knew, at the end of the day, I had been asking for it and they'd see it the same way.
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All-In [46825]
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We really need bullying back in schools***
May 26, 2022, 8:41 AM
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110%er [5692]
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Re: We really need bullying back in schools***
May 26, 2022, 11:15 AM
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You got kids in public schools?
If you do or did and pay attention, you will know there is no discipline in schools. Kids that do not do homework get a pass.
Kids that fart around in class and disrupt it for the people that want to learn, get a pass.
Principals can do nothing to stop it.
You want to teach these same kids how to be good virtuous citizens? You have no concept of reality.
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All-In [42196]
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It's almost as if...
May 26, 2022, 1:31 PM
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Schools have been neutered by "Not my baby!" helicopter parents who threaten lawsuits and such if anyone dares to discipline their little #### bag.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: It's almost as if...
May 26, 2022, 1:53 PM
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All-In [47844]
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Here's a great story
May 26, 2022, 9:11 AM
[ in reply to Re: I’m in total agreement that society/our culture ] |
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When I was growing up, don't remember the year exactly, my younger brother was selling something for something. I don't really remember, maybe popcorn for boyscouts or something. He was going door to door down the street and stopped at the house of @flow0440. His dad said no, they didn't want to buy anything. I guess my brother thought that selling them something was a sure thing since we knew them so well. He got upset and gave flow's dad the middle finger. Why the h#ll he did that I don't know, and I'm not sure to this day that he knows either. Flow's dad immediately picked up my brother, by the ankles, held him upside down, and whipped his a>ss. Dare I say we need more of that.
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All-In [42196]
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Recently...
May 26, 2022, 9:16 AM
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A friend of mine hollered at a neighbor's kid because his kid--older and bigger--forcibly took something from his 5-year-old son even though the bigger kid had his own. He didn't scream or cuss or cut the kid down. He just hollered across the street and told him not to do that to someone smaller than him.
Neighbors came over and told him not to yell at their kid.
My parents would have thanked the neighbor if I had behaved that way.
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All-In [31907]
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LOL...those were different times....
May 26, 2022, 1:50 PM
[ in reply to Here's a great story ] |
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I'm fairly confident all of my friend's parents had explicit or implied permission to whip my arsse on an as-needed basis.
If he did that to someone else's kid, imagine what he did to me on a regular basis when I had it coming (which was a lot).
Heck, I remember spending the night at your house and Ma (BigDaddy's live-in grandmother) would come in and beat the entire room indiscriminately through the bed covers 'cause we were making too much noise instead of sleeping. That shi hurt and was very funny at the same time
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Oculus Spirit [83127]
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All-In [46825]
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Mandatory vasectomies for men on welfare***
May 26, 2022, 8:55 AM
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Heisman Winner [119729]
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Here, here!
May 26, 2022, 9:15 AM
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Castration would work, too ??
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: I’m in total agreement that society/our culture
May 26, 2022, 9:07 AM
[ in reply to I’m in total agreement that society/our culture ] |
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Speaking of morals, the current "savior" of "Christian consevartives" in this country bangs pron stars without even wearing a rubber while his 3rd wife is tending to the birth of his 5th child.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: Thinking about the tragedy
May 26, 2022, 8:14 AM
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Teenagers are often depressed and finding their way. Then you may add some mental illness and the internet and access to guns and it's not that shocking that it happens.
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All-In [26514]
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I would be okay with moving the gun purchase age to 21
May 26, 2022, 8:22 AM
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if it was connected to not being able to buy violent video games until you're 21.
If you don't think this is playing a part, you're fooling yourself.
Being desensitized to violence is never, ever a good thing.
The draft age should move to 21 too.
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All-In [42196]
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Re: I would be okay with moving the gun purchase age to 21
May 26, 2022, 8:32 AM
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They've examined the effects of violent video games on kids and no, it doesn't play a part. In fact, there's been a decline in teen violence since the introduction of first person shooters.
Maybe we could move the gun age to 21 but I don't know that this stops teens from getting their hands on them somehow.
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All-In [26514]
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Oh ... I thought we were kneejerking to isolated incidents
May 26, 2022, 8:44 AM
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If there are millions of kids that play video games and don't commit crimes
then there are also millions of kids that have access to guns that don't commit violent crimes
The buffalo shooter was an admitted gamer.
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All-In [42196]
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Re: Oh ... I thought we were kneejerking to isolated incidents
May 26, 2022, 8:48 AM
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then there are also millions of kids that have access to guns that don't commit violent crimes
We're basically making the same argument on guns.
The buffalo shooter was an admitted gamer.
Many others weren't. It's silly to point to video games on this just as it is any other thing.
Things don't make people do bad stuff. That's just society looking for something to blame.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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here's the test
May 26, 2022, 8:41 AM
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and it doesn't require much imagination:
without the "things", would Uvalde have happened? Or Parkland, or Columbine, or Sandy Hook?
I mean, for real, how many times does this has to happen for the force multiplier in this equation starts to make sense to us.
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All-In [42196]
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Perhaps not
May 26, 2022, 8:46 AM
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But how do you eliminate the things? Because unless the answer is "Find a way to collect every single one of them, melt them down, and never allow another to be created," the answer is, "You can't."
In some of those cases, the guns were legally purchased. In others, they were sold illegally by people who could give two ##### about the law.
And even if we did get rid of those things, then we move on to knives. Bombs. Cars. Etc.
A person who wants to murder lots of people isn't going to abandon it if he can't get a gun.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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All-In [42196]
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What do you think the body count will be...
May 26, 2022, 8:54 AM
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If our government tries to push for a nationwide sweep and confiscation of firearms?
We're not like other nations.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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this is a mindset issue
May 26, 2022, 9:05 AM
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and we shouldn't assume anything.
Not suggesting confiscation and confrontation. Gun buy backs would be enough for me. It is just a matter of rolling up our sleeves and making it a priority.
We have to start somewhere and put a dent into this madness.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: this is a mindset issue
May 26, 2022, 1:48 PM
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One thing you can assume is if the government were to ever attempt gun confiscation it will get extremely nasty. We have too much history around the world as a reference to ever let that happen.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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obviously we don't need to confiscate
May 26, 2022, 3:18 PM
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but we need to regulate purchases, impose age restrictions, and buy-back.
Those aren't issues that are going to start a civil war, but it will start exposing anti-gun control politicians for the cowards they are.
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110%er [8988]
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Re: obviously we don't need to confiscate
May 26, 2022, 3:35 PM
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sounds like infringement
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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try this thought experiment
May 26, 2022, 6:24 PM
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You mention the Constitution by way of infringement, and it brings up an interesting thought experiment.
Suppose we could bring the framers through time to May 24, 2022 in Ulvade, TX and sat them down to explain what happened at the school. Suppose we showed them the kind of weapons used, the calibre, the explosive damage done to human tissue, and the number of seconds it would take for even a semi-competent gun operator to mow down a classroom full of kids. Then suppose we showed them all the statistics from years and years of these mass shootings. the mental health data showing 1 in 5 with diagnosed mental conditions, and the data on gun ownership - 120 guns per 100 residents.
And then let's suppose our framers were then shown the full evolution of legal judgements involving the second amendment over the last 245 years, ending with the Heller decision and then Texas laws allowing folks to open carry.
I really wonder if they would agree with you that some reasonable regulations would infringe on the collective right of the people to bear arms. I wonder if they wouldn't look at us and say we have collectively lost our #### minds.
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110%er [8988]
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Re: try this thought experiment
May 26, 2022, 9:05 PM
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no need to experiment, there is a process to amend the constitution, get busy
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Legend [18026]
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being against empathy in schools is so freaking bizarre
May 26, 2022, 5:07 PM
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as a base-level human being, it should be at about 100% in agreement, yet as you said, it's become this weird tribal political issue. It speaks so much about what is wrong with the country today when you have many arguing against empathy.
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Lot o points [155944]
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Define “empathy in schools”?***
May 26, 2022, 6:33 PM
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Legend [18026]
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Mainly basing it off of this thread from awhile back...
May 26, 2022, 10:37 PM
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https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/re-sorry-but-it-is-censorship-30664355
and how SEL is seen similarly as CRT as some nefarious plot to indoctrinate children or reject the parent's role in a child's education. I can see an argument for how SEL should be taught, but it's bizarre to think it shouldn't be taught at all, IMO.
It was in response to this part of the OP: "some have been outspoken against anything related to any kind of empathy or care or social awareness or just how to be a good person. "Stick to that readin', writin', 'rithetic! Taught to the tune of a hickory stick!"
Because... butbutbut... that should be left up to just the parents!"
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Lot o points [155944]
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I may be misreading you, but here’s one thing I know…
May 26, 2022, 6:45 PM
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My school experience….especially middle school, holy sheeeit was Beck Middle school bad (right Lakebum1®?), had a crap ton of bullying and meanassssed behavior…..to everyone if felt like. Some to me, some by me, and whole lot to everyone else too. I was surrounded by sociopaths for many of those years.
I look at my kids’ school experience, and it’s like the PG version of my school years. The movie of my years would be a “scared straight” film for them. Kids are either decent to each other or at worst indifferent, the bullying is wayyyy down, and it’s like everyone is living “I’m ok, you’re ok”. This observation is shared with most of my friends that I’ve discussed it with.
And yet, we generally didn’t go around killing each other (despite being allowed to have hunting weapons in your freaking car in the school parking lot) and my kids’ generation are. I know there are always exceptions, but when something did happen in the 80’s, it was usually some hyper-bullied kid reaching the end of his rope and maybe shooting the kid who was bullying him. It wasn’t just a mass event.
So basically, I’d say schools are a lot nicer and more empathetic places (bruh, there was no epithet un-uttered in the halls of 1980’s Greenville schools) now than they were then. Every school in America now has kids coming out as gay and transgender and going about their school days. That would have been a one way trip to homeschool-ville back then because it would have been completely unbearable for that person to move about the school freely.
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All-In [42196]
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Re: I may be misreading you, but here’s one thing I know…
May 27, 2022, 8:00 AM
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...especially middle school, holy sheeeit was Beck Middle school bad
Ouch.
I look at my kids’ school experience, and it’s like the PG version of my school years. The movie of my years would be a “scared straight” film for them. Kids are either decent to each other or at worst indifferent, the bullying is wayyyy down, and it’s like everyone is living “I’m ok, you’re ok”. This observation is shared with most of my friends that I’ve discussed it with.
I somewhat agree, but I think it all goes to the environment. You went to Beck; I went to Spartanburg High School in the 90s and it could get pretty nasty. Your kids may be in a different environment.
BUT... yes, I agree that bullying, or at least how kids treat each other, has actually improved.
So basically, I’d say schools are a lot nicer and more empathetic places (bruh, there was no epithet un-uttered in the halls of 1980’s Greenville schools) now than they were then. Every school in America now has kids coming out as gay and transgender and going about their school days. That would have been a one way trip to homeschool-ville back then because it would have been completely unbearable for that person to move about the school freely.
But I think also schools recognized the problem coming out of the 80s and 90s and took measures to correct it, hence what we have today. Yet now we have folks demanding that schools NOT take such measures to improve relationships.
Now, again, I can't say there's any correlation between any of this and school shootings. All I'm saying is, well, it can't hurt, right?
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Heisman Winner [111630]
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Re: Thinking about the tragedy
May 26, 2022, 10:09 PM
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Sorry Cat, my generation was brought up on Dodge ball, it is a lesson we were taught at an early age, shoot, or get shot. The secret was to use the weaker/ fatter kids as blocking shield and decoys, skills that would later serve me in the corporate world. Being nice was not a part of this, winning was.
Remember, we are Americans, We place winning and being right above EVRYTHING, even if it means stepping on others to get what you want.
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Legend [18026]
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Going with that idea...
May 26, 2022, 10:44 PM
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Has Ted Cruz floated the idea that, like with dodgeball, if we teach the kids to catch the bullets—with their hands—the shooter is immediately out? I've seen Teller from Penn and Teller catch bullets all the time with his teeth! Surely, we could get him to teach some seminars to teachers, and then we'd surely have this problem fixed without needing to do anything with guns.
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Heisman Winner [111630]
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Re: Going with that idea...
May 26, 2022, 11:38 PM
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If you can catch a hammer, you can catch a bullet. But I guess what I am saying is that we are too competitive as a culture, that is why you do not see much empathy, caring, or collaboration as you do in other industrialized countries.. I believe it's getting better with the younger generations, but I do not have kids and have not been inside a class room in decades. But is seems like bullying is less of a thing than when I was growing up.
And there have been plenty of studies showing a correlation between competition and aggression. Say in the case of violent video games, it is not the violence in the games that leads to the aggressive behavior, but the competitive nature of the game itself. Say video and schoolyard games where collaborative as a goal, instead of competitive, we would have a completely different culture, one where people are closely connected and depend on one another. That seems like a healthier society to me.
This is where I get the obligatory participation trophy speech from, well, someone. Because again, we live in a culture where someone HAS to be the winner. We are taught this at a very young age, later to be reinforced with awards and trophies for individual performance, but rarely for helping others.
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All-In [42196]
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Wouldn't have to worry about this...
May 27, 2022, 8:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: Thinking about the tragedy ] |
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If all teachers, students, custodians, PTSO presidents, etc., were packing heat.
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Replies: 39
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