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All-In [42197]
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Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 9:43 AM
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It's the knee-jerk reaction I see here and elsewhere on social media, and even people I've met: If they love Trump and you don't, they automatically assume you're a liberal or a leftist.
While I agree the left, or Democrats, are staunchly opposed to Trump, the numbers don't support this.
-Based on the most recent poll numbers, Trump has fluctuated with support among Republicans between 85 to 91. While that's still a strong majority, let's break down those numbers. About 30 percent of Americans identify as Republican (about 31 percent identify as Dem). Of registered voters in 2018, that would look like around 46 million. Thus, 4.14 to 6.9 million who don't support Trump.
-Among independents, the numbers are worse. His most dismal numbers in polls right now with independents is 33 percent. So of 59ish million independent voters, 39 million or so disapprove of Trump. I think we can agree that an independent could be all over the place with politic ideology.
-In 2016, after action reports showed that many former hardline Dem and Obama supporters actually crossed the aisle to vote for Trump because Hillary was such a bad candidate who lost voters by embracing elitism.
So, the question I pose to the hardline Trump supporters on this board: Why the immediate assumption that someone who opposes Trump is a leftist?
Next, why is Trump still considered to be a conservative candidate given his ideology, his embracing of big government, and past evidence of his leftist leans before running for president? Please don't say the appointment of conservative judges.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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the ones who think that...
Jul 9, 2020, 9:45 AM
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weren't paying attention the first two years of his term.
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All-In [42197]
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Re: the ones who think that...
Jul 9, 2020, 9:46 AM
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Especially with many economic practices. The man is not about laissez faire economic policy, which, I thought, was supposed to be a bastion of conservative ideology.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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financially, he's doing the same old crap...
Jul 9, 2020, 9:49 AM
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We are seeing the result of the founders kicking the slavery can down the road.
When the deficit/debt can hits the dead end, it ain't gonna be good.
And they are getting ready to send out more "free" money.
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All-In [42197]
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And therein lies...
Jul 9, 2020, 9:51 AM
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One of the big lies of the GOP over the last few presidents/Congresses: Cut spending and government waste. They preach it, then get in office and continue to spend, spend, spend. Trump's admin has been atrocious with this, thus, not conservative.
At least the Dems are honest about their overblown spending and government waste. Unfortunately.
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Oculus Spirit [97746]
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They're too busy buying our votes.
Jul 9, 2020, 10:00 AM
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Democrats with social programs, pubs with tax breaks and cuts. They also buy things like a 21 year age for buying alcohol and tobacco, they buy all kinds of obedience with it. For crying out loud, absolutely NO ONE complained a bit about the covid emergency free #### bill forcing states to change their tobacco buying age. Or a bill in the 1980's to support highway funding being used to blackmail states into changing the drinking age. These are things that WOULD NOT PASS A DEMOCRATIC vote nationwide, that's beyond the federal government's power, that was accomplished with our tax dollars. It's the principle of the thing that's pure evil and destructive to any republic.
It's like rich parents threatening to cut off their overly-dependent kids from money if they propose to some girl they love. THAT NEVER ENDS UP WELL. Same principle. Trump is also very familiar with this principle as well. We buy our foreign policy. We buy a lot of crap by having our own money held over our heads.
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Letterman [288]
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Re: And therein lies...
Jul 9, 2020, 11:37 AM
[ in reply to And therein lies... ] |
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You are right in the end result (GOP spending just as bad as dems) but I blame at least 50% of that on congress. We can't keep shutting down the gov't due to stalemates, and congress has not given the president a choice, really, on deficits.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Only two presidents in the last 50 years
Jul 9, 2020, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to And therein lies... ] |
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have frozen federal salaries and federal contractor salaries to help with the deficit. It's actually one of the very few things the president can do independently to address the budget.
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Oculus Spirit [97746]
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Lesson 1 for all my children
Jul 9, 2020, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to financially, he's doing the same old crap... ] |
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Well, yeah, probably #1, top 5 anyway for sure.....
NOTHING in this world is free. Zero. It's a fake, fantasy, made up word. Oldest brought up the lottery. I told him millions of people worked to earn the money to buy the tickets that fund the money you win. Is that really "free"? Is government money "free"? He got it. His argument was it was free to him, and I reminded him that free to you only means it was NOT free for someone else.
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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it is easier to hate that group
Jul 9, 2020, 9:47 AM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 10:00 AM
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I call insane leftists, leftists. Not all democrats.
I know you say that you aren't even a democrat, but I consider you a leftist.
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All-In [42197]
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Like everyone else on this board...
Jul 9, 2020, 10:02 AM
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You can't give me a list of my beliefs and ideologies to prove that I am one. Every time I've challenged you and others to do it, you ignore it.
And you'll do it right here as well.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Like everyone else on this board...
Jul 9, 2020, 10:17 AM
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Just some quick questions for you: I know the answers to these questions don't 100% settle where you stand politically
Are you pro-abortion?
Do you want open borders?
Do you want stricter gun control?
Do you want us to stay in Afganistan?
Are you pro BLM movement?
Do you want to defund/decrease police budget?
Did you want us to shut down earlier/longer for coronavirus?
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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LOL on basing a political platform on those categories.
Jul 9, 2020, 10:21 AM
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And nobody is pro-abortion.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: LOL on basing a political platform on those categories.
Jul 9, 2020, 10:25 AM
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Hey Jackarse. Did you read my second sentence?
"I know the answers to these questions don't 100% settle where you stand politically"
THey were just quick questions I thought up in about 5 seconds.
And there are plenty of leftists that are pro-abortion. Are you serious or just really dumb?
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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It's not even close to getting 30% of a political leaning
Jul 9, 2020, 10:27 AM
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from those questions, thanks for the jackarse comment.
Are you just really dumb to equate pro-abortion to pro-choice? Or do you think leftists are actually pro-abortion, not pro-choice?
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All-In [42197]
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Hold on...
Jul 9, 2020, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: LOL on basing a political platform on those categories. ] |
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"Pro-abortion"? As in, they like abortion?
I've yet to meet any person on this earth who likes abortion and advocates for it.
Well, except supposed conservatives whose teenage daughters get knocked up. They sing a different tune real fast.
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All-In [40936]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Pretty much everybody that gets an abortion is pro abortion
Jul 9, 2020, 1:02 PM
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And definitely baby daddy is
That's always been pretty much my thinking on the culture wars. If you don't like abortion, don't get one. If you don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married. If you don't like flag burning, then don't burn one.
And leave everyone else alone.
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Like everyone else on this board...
Jul 9, 2020, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Like everyone else on this board... ] |
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That's a silly litmus test to determine if someone is "leftist," but I'm happy to answer your questions. But keep this in mind: You made the assumption of where I stood BEFORE getting the answer to these questions, so you admit you had no idea what you were talking about.
1. Personally, I'm against abortion for a variety of reasons. But I recognize it's not a black and white issue, and I'm also wary of the government banning ANYTHING as the response is usually not a good one from the public. It's kind of like doing drugs; I don't do em and am personally against them, but I see where government interference has created problems that could be killed with capitalism.
2. No.
3. No. I've been a gun owner for a long time.
4. No. While I supported the initial involvement in Afghanistan, now it's time to pull out. We should have never gone to Iraq, and THAT, my friend, is a conservative stance.
5. Clarify. Am I pro-BLM the organization? Or just supportive of the concept of black lives matter? I'm in favor of the latter as racism continues to be an issue in our country, and really, that's not right vs. left. That's just human decency.
6. No. I do favor cutting military equipment hand me downs to police. They aren't necessary and have created the problems.
7. This has nothing to do with political ideology. Nothing. And I also don't have a good answer to it because I don't really know what to believe anymore with coronavirus.
I think you have better questions you can ask for political ideology. And that's the problem; you have chosen topics that are NOT political and have tried to make them such, like coronavirus.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Like everyone else on this board...
Jul 9, 2020, 10:43 AM
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Ok. I put a disclaimer on the post saying that I know this doesn't settle your political ideology. So I don't know why people keep bringing it up.
So basically you agree with me and Trump on all of these issues. But everything that gets brought up on this board referring to Trump you disagree with. And anything I bring up you have strong opposition to. But yet we agree on a ton of issues.
So do you just have an incredibly high level of TDS? I mean I understand Trump is a jerk and tweets mean things, but why do you hate him so bad? It seems you just listen to Trump's take and then take the opposite stance.
Also you do realize that Biden plans on being advised by Socialists like Bernie and AOC. He wants Beto's advice on guns. He's going to nominate a VP that wants open borders and free healthcare (assuming it's either going to be Kamala or Abrams)
I know you said you aren't voting for Biden either, but it seems that you align way more with Trump than Biden.
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Like everyone else on this board...
Jul 9, 2020, 11:02 AM
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So basically you agree with me and Trump on all of these issues. But everything that gets brought up on this board referring to Trump you disagree with. And anything I bring up you have strong opposition to. But yet we agree on a ton of issues.
I've never said I disagree with all of Trump's philosophies. There are even a few things I've lauded him for, such as criminal justice reform and trying to cut government regulations in some areas.
I'm not sure Trump and I really agree on those issues. Trump is definitely pro choice and lies about it now, so there's that, I guess, but I don't even really like to call myself "pro choice". I think too many abortions happen that shouldn't. He and I definitely don't agree on racial issues. He favors militarization of police, and I really think his pro-gun stance is just more of his pandering BS.
And while I agree coronavirus has been politicized, it shouldn't have been. It's possible to be very concerned about the spread and take it seriously while also being concerned with government lockdown/abuse of authority and the economy.
So do you just have an incredibly high level of TDS? I mean I understand Trump is a jerk and tweets mean things, but why do you hate him so bad? It seems you just listen to Trump's take and then take the opposite stance.
TDS is a ridiculous term used to dismiss valid complaints against Trump. The real TDS is blindly defending him in every avenue, which you have appeared to do regularly. And along with despising him for being a jerk and Tweeting hate, which has further divided our nation, I despise his attacks on the free press and his vengeful, destructive ideology, his xenophobia, his coziness with dictators while pushing away allies, his embracing of corruption (particularly with his children and their spouses), his constant golfing, how he surrounds himself with horrible people while the few good people he hires bail out, and his authoritarianism. Being authoritarian, regardless of the letter by your name, is the surefire way to get me to despise you as a president.
Also you do realize that Biden plans on being advised by Socialists like Bernie and AOC. He wants Beto's advice on guns. He's going to nominate a VP that wants open borders and free healthcare (assuming it's either going to be Kamala or Abrams)
I do not support Biden or the Dem platform. I highly doubt he chooses a VP who supports open borders. Dems have not favored open borders. They also aren't taking our guns.
I know you said you aren't voting for Biden either, but it seems that you align way more with Trump than Biden.
No, I don't, and I can go through his whole platform to explain why but I doubt either of us want to go that long. But I can sum it up well: Trump does not know, love, or respect the U.S. Constitution or the Bill of Rights, and those are things I love and respect.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Like everyone else on this board...
Jul 9, 2020, 11:03 AM
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Because the dummy went and politicized it. The only idiots you see crying about how the virus is being overblown by the media are idiots like Trump and Bolsonaro in Brazil. Not coincidentally, these are the gold-and-silver-medal winners right now for COVID-19 cases and deaths.
Gee. Shocker.
All Trump had to do was declare a national emergency, defer to the experts, and lead...and everybody would have fallen in line. People instinctively rally behind their leaders in moments of crisis.
The problem is Trump has zero leadership ability, and the only numbers he cares about are the stock market and economic growth numbers...so he tried to deny and then minimize the crisis, he bullied and then disregarded his experts, and he rushed the re-opening...and there's nothing resembling a coordinated national effort. It's every state for itself...thanks to Trump.
History is not going to be kind to the guy and there's likely to be 200K (or more!) deaths on his ledger before this is over that under a less inept administration would not be dead...and that's something nobody can just politic away.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Like everyone else on this board...
Jul 9, 2020, 11:13 AM
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Was it Trump's Executive order that sent infected patients to nursing homes, or Democratic governers. You know because those states have up to 70% of their deaths coming from Nursing homes.
Or are you just going to blame that on Trump too?
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110%er [6139]
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They claim not to have it but one sympton of TDS is that
Jul 9, 2020, 11:46 AM
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everything is Trump's fault.
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Standout [347]
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I’ll answer those for fun.
Jul 9, 2020, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: Like everyone else on this board... ] |
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1. I’m pro-choice 2. Don’t want open borders at all. 3. I’m ok with some rational gun control measures, so long as there are still plenty of options of guns that people can use for hunting, self defense in public, and home defense. 4. I’m all for getting out of Afghanistan. 5. BLM- if there’s some obvious things wrong with our system that need to be changed, I could support them on that. But I don’t believe a lot of what they preach, and don’t agree with how they advance their agenda. 6. Don’t want to defund/decrease police budgets. 7. Didn’t want us to shut down at all, but was ok with shutting down until we learned more and made sure that hospitals weren’t maxed out. Once it was clear that wasn’t going to happen, I wanted us to open everything back up.
And I’m very anti-Trump and will be voting for Biden in the fall. Would prefer a moderate Republican, I’m not a Biden fan or really a Democrat fan, but would vote for a wet turd over Trump.
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Letterman [288]
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Re: Like everyone else on this board...
Jul 9, 2020, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Like everyone else on this board... ] |
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This is fun...I'll try:
Are you pro-abortion? No. Would be hard to admit if I was.
Do you want open borders? No. Big no.
Do you want stricter gun control? Caveat here: If and only if the government was reasonable and not a threat to take a mile if I give them an inch, I would support more gun control. However, I do not trust the government, so my answer, if I have to choose, is No.
Do you want us to stay in Afganistan? Not really.
Are you pro BLM movement? Seems no more than a political group, so, No.
Do you want to defund/decrease police budget? Not in general, but nothing wrong with scraping a few percent off to study some new techniques.
Did you want us to shut down earlier/longer for coronavirus? Hard to answer. I'd say we need SMARTER approaches to staying open IMO.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 10:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist? ] |
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I've always thought Cata was a libertarian moderate...which is about where I fall, politically. I think you're confusing "anti-authoritarian" with "leftist". It isn't, it's a different axis on the political spectrum.
There really aren't a lot of true leftists on this board. For the most part, in my experience, you don't find a lot of those on football message boards.
Knee-jerk SJW liberals tend to not like football. Or sports in general.
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All-In [42197]
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Again, to quote Chris Rock...
Jul 9, 2020, 10:34 AM
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"There's #### I'm conservative about. There's #### I'm liberal about."
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All-In [31907]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 10:31 AM
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Because its a cult. Anyone who doesn't blindly support their "god" is the enemy.
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Oculus Spirit [83131]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 10:48 AM
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I'll answer too.
1. I think the controversial heart beat bill is a good one. I used to be more pro-choice in college, but have steered right on this issue with age
2. No open borders
3. I think AR's should require stricter background checks, and testing
4. Get out of Afganistan
5. Pro Black Lives matter, but completely against the movement. The leaders are trained Marxists and they want to eliminate police and the nuclear family
6. I think police budget should be increased. I think cops should be paid more and I think they should probably get more training
7. For Coronavirus, I think we should go about our business while trying to socially distant and wear mask. We need to also take care of the vulnerable poplulation.
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110%er [6139]
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Maybe you should be Trump's campaign manager, well
Jul 9, 2020, 11:01 AM
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you'd need him to stop tweeting to be effective.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist? ] |
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I'll answer too.
1. I think the controversial heart beat bill is a good one. I used to be more pro-choice in college, but have steered right on this issue with age
2. No open borders
3. I think AR's should require stricter background checks, and testing
4. Get out of Afganistan
5. Pro Black Lives matter, but completely against the movement. The leaders are trained Marxists and they want to eliminate police and the nuclear family
6. I think police budget should be increased. I think cops should be paid more and I think they should probably get more training
7. For Coronavirus, I think we should go about our business while trying to socially distant and wear mask. We need to also take care of the vulnerable poplulation.
Well, I gotta say Mountaineers, that your list looks pretty reasonable to this old liberal. All of it is common sense and for the common good. So when did you become a liberal?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 1:46 PM
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I actually do lean left/but have grown more to the right over the years.
I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 because he's a jerk, but I will be this year. I think this is more to do with how far the left the democrats have gone.
I also think he has shaken things up in Washington and has/will expose some very corrupt life time swamp rats that have used their position of power for profit. We shall see on that.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 3:16 PM
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With respect Mountaineers, I think the only corruption that's going to be uncovered is him and his family. Ivanka got 16 Chinese trademarks 10 days after having dinner with the Chinese President.
The Cares Act included $195 Billion tax credit, retroactive to 10 years for Real Estate Developers.
Oh there is corruption in Washington, but I'm afraid Trump has increased the swamp, not drained it.
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Letterman [288]
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Re: Why do Trump supporters think all his opponents are leftist?
Jul 9, 2020, 11:35 AM
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Fair question...I support Trump and if generalizing would probably do what you said.
Dunno why, but I agree there are plenty of anti-Trump people that are not left.
Maybe we need a name for these non-left anti-Trumpers
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Legend [15492]
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I'm not a leftist, I just like this cool shirt.
Jul 9, 2020, 12:06 PM
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I got it at Marxism 'r' Us.
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Legend [15749]
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I’ve never thought all Trump opponents were leftist
Jul 9, 2020, 12:49 PM
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but I do lament that they are enabling a leftist ideology.
But I don’t know anyone who doesn’t acknowledge that there is a vast number of Republicans who are anti-Trump, let alone the independents.
I am not sure why we would label Trump big government. I’m not concerned if he’s a “Conservative”...he’s the conservative option. He’s cut taxes, cut some budgets, eased regulations. I don’t need to get into a purity test. There is no fiscal Conservative party...not much I can do about that.
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110%er [6139]
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Exactly, if you are conservative, why would you consider
Jul 9, 2020, 1:38 PM
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not voting for Trump? He's a lot closer to being a conservative than anything be offered up the Democrats. It's more of a means-to-an-end thing. Having a Democrat in isn't going to help America stay conservative especially the way the far left seems to being swinging their party.
And sure, he was the nominee in 2016 but the left leaning media played a pretty good role in that happening. Just like they portraited Romney to a right wing radical in 2012.
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