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Replies: 13
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Campus Hero [13817]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Buying a Roster
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Dec 26, 2024, 12:22 PM
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I keep reading about teams buying rosters. I keep reading articles painting “roster buying” in a positive light. Excitement, praise, this is how you do it!
Horse Hockey.
There are ZERO examples of a school buying a roster and experiencing sustained success.
There are multiple examples of teams buying rosters and experiencing flash in the pan success, followed by marching off of a cliff.
With zero research, I offer, LSU, FSU, Michigan.
You might throw TAMU in there, but they attempted to buy a roster and experienced no success, followed by disaster.
What evidence is there that you can build a program by buying it? I see none. I see evidence that you can destroy a program by attempting to buy it.
I have read all the praise. I see no evidence that any of that praise is deserved.
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Varsity [148]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Re: Buying a Roster
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Dec 26, 2024, 12:31 PM
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With NIL and the transfer rules, as dumb as they are, only being in existence for a few years, I think it'll take more time for programs to understand in totality how it will all work. I am off the firm belief once schools work through their NIL collectives, get massive yearly donations from wealthy boosters, the rich will only get richer.
I don't believe Oregon, Texas, Ohio State, etc are going away.
I understand your point, but I don't believe we have enough data points to say it isn't going to be effective.
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Top TigerNet [30394]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Depends on what you mean by "buying" it.
Dec 26, 2024, 12:39 PM
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Schools have understood for years that you have to have the best facilities, the best equipment rooms, the best dormitories/apartments, the best food, the best "amenities" in the athletic complex, etc. in order to recruit the best players. The first team to get national publicity for this was Oregon. Phil Knight paid for unbelievable facilities a couple of decades ago. Other schools started "keeping up with the Joneses." Alabama was one of the first.
Clemson has joined the race. Why do you think they put a slide in the facilities. It's just a case of "how can we stand out and be different" from everyone else.
So, in that sense, you do have to buy players.
But, in the sense you mean - paying players to play, it is too early to tell. But, it appears that you can get short term success, but not long term. Time will tell.
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Game Changer [1873]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Depends on what you mean by "buying" it.
Dec 26, 2024, 1:01 PM
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That being said, do you believe it to be a point of no return? Once you start "flipping your roster", do you have to continue to flip it until you win it all? The "buying a roster" belief has to, at some point, turn into a retention fund. I can't see how that is sustainable. Buying new guys and still having enough to keep some.
Tim Beck at Coastal said before the Myrtle Beach Bowl that he is no longer building a program, just trying to build a team. He knows that all his good players will eventually move on to other programs.
All I can say to that is, if you're just trying to build a team (and not a program) then you are correct. You better players will leave. Unless you can give them a good enough reason not to.
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CU Medallion [20855]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 18792
Joined: 2012
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Faux outrage I read from you
Dec 26, 2024, 12:41 PM
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Show me all these articles talking about “roster buying” being the “end all, be all”.
No one of ound mind and or merit - and I mean no one - has said that “roster buying” as you put it is the path towards sustained success.
Furthermore, very few - if any - have said that focusing on portal vs focusing on HS recruiting is preferable. Some may have said that in the current construct of college football - it is necessary to give increasing weight to transfers - such as as school like Indiana.
With FSUs success the year prior the phrase “lightning in a bottle” was often used as it was and no one - no one except the most extreme mouth breather - thought that that kind of portal use would give any team consistency.
As far as your examples - go look at Michigans teams and their CFP appearances. Get back to me regarding the transfers that played meaningful minutes. No difference than the UGA or Alabama or OSUs. The transfers contribute but the team does not rely on transfers as the base of talent.
My point? I think you were solid on SNL - some of my favorite skits. But I think your hot take is off as far as the populace opinion that wholesale roster buying is the way to go at this time.
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Campus Hero [13817]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Faux outrage I read from you
Dec 26, 2024, 12:51 PM
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No outrage. No hot take. It’s a four year take.
My question still stands. Who is the example that buying a roster works?
I noticed that you don’t have an answer.
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Clemson Conqueror [11589]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Posts: 14643
Joined: 2004
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depends on your definition and perception of what "works" is.....
Dec 26, 2024, 1:05 PM
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by most accounts Colorado "bought" their roster the last couple of years.........in return they've had more attendance and on field success than they've experienced in a LOOOOONG time. Right, wrong, or indifferent Colorado went from a 1-11 team to a 9-3 team in two years. Look at Indiana this year w/ 30+ transfers.......Granted, there are very different ways of going about the NIL / portal and I'm not advocating EXTREME usage either way...............but I do think in today's world the last 4 years have proven you CANNOT ignore and NOT utilize NIL/Portal any longer b/c the one example who uses it "too little" has been CLEMSON and the success rate during our downfall (2021-2024) illustrates as much.
it boils down to this. There is not a one size fits all approach to the NIL/portal, it's all dependent on your program, roster, support, etc....
CLEMSON needs and is using NIL more and more each year...........now they need to utilize the portal a little more. They need a mix of BOTH.
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CU Medallion [20855]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 18792
Joined: 2012
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Re: Faux outrage I read from you
Dec 26, 2024, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Faux outrage I read from you ] |
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Gumby® it is faux outrage as you are railing against those that say “buying a roster”’is a way and/or the way to sustained success.
And it’s faux outrage because no one is saying that.
No one has said FSU or Indiana or CU will have sustained success on the field. There are no examples of teams relying almost exclusively for on field talent having success over the past four years. Maybe some team will crack the code. Most likely it will be like an FSU - boom or bust - when there is success.
I do not think having a roster with a plurality of transfers year end and year out is a means to an end. So - my green foam and/or claymation friend - I and 99.9% of people agree with YOU that buying/focusing on portal/transfers is not the way to go. And 94.76% agree that in this day and age, selective use of transfers can/will helps program when used selectively. Not sure how you feel about selective portal and/or pay activity.
I agree with you. The world agrees with you. Hence your faux outrage against the 0.0001% of 14 year olds who say that transfer portal is the way to go.
Show me an article where someone saying “buying a roster” is the way to success. I’ve already admitted twice that there are no examples of teams who have succeeded. But you indicate/imply that success through roster buying is a believed practice by some - and I haven’t read these comments.
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Ring of Honor [22877]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 13401
Joined: 2018
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Re: Buying a Roster
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Dec 26, 2024, 1:05 PM
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I might change the verbage from "buying" a roster to "paying" for a roster. This is where we are now. All players, including HS, will eventually have an NIL value. They will come into the program they sign with and get offers for their NIL, and then the value of the NIL will increase or decrease based on how well they develop and perform. At the end of the season, your better players will have offers to leave and you will have to pay at least market value or more to keep them.
For those that don't already have a new home lined up, or who may not be as attractive because of their lack of playing time or not fitting in, they enter the portal and take their chances on the open market. And then you pony up and pay for the ones you want. And those who are thinking about the NFL can now leave after 2 years and you may have to open the wallet even wider if you want to try and entice them to stay.
I don't see any way around this unless you just don't care about your talent level. If you do care about it, now you are going to have to pay for the level you can afford. There will be Premium, Middle Class, and Economy.
The choices are yours...
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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Orange Blooded [2285]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Buying a Roster
Dec 26, 2024, 1:08 PM
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The best teams use it to plug temporary holes. We haven't done it right and neither has Florida State.
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Rival Killer [2753]
TigerPulse: 99%
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I wonder what the coaches meetings with players, calls from agents, calls
Dec 26, 2024, 1:11 PM
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from parents, locker room culture, etc., for those teams is like? Gundy gave us an idea.
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Clemson Conqueror [11589]
TigerPulse: 86%
46
Posts: 14643
Joined: 2004
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there are also ZERO examples of sustained success by NOT utilizing NIL/Portal
Dec 26, 2024, 1:17 PM
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Clemson was the "poster child" of NOT using it.......probably still is and our on field success and talent has suffered tremendously compared to our pre-NIL/portal success.
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Clemson Conqueror [11397]
TigerPulse: 100%
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THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO BUILD A PROGRAM
Dec 26, 2024, 1:57 PM
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You first start off by being honest with recruits from high school. You bring them into the fold of your culture and set the standard from day one. This includes the way you hire your staff; that being one of the most important ingredients in the whole process.
After you have recruited the roster that you want, you must instill the culture, love, and dedicated training into their very souls. They must become the game of football. They must eat, drink, sleep, and breathe football. All while maintaining their academic success and off the field image. None of this involves bribing a player with money to join the team.
The way that Coach Swinney wants to run the program will not only bring about success, but roster retention, and sustainable growth.
Many teams are finding that you can buy a roster, but you cannot buy long term success. If we want Clemson to have another 5-10 year run at consistent success, then my advice is to keep things the way they are because those methods have worked in the past.
Coaching hires on the other hand may or may not be an issue, but the verdict is still out on that aspect of the current state of the program. Tyler Grisham has shown great improvement in his ability to develop wide outs. Mike Reed has always done his part. There's not a better offensive line coach than Matt Luke. Add in Nick Eason and Chris Rumph for the D-Line and you have a great duo for success.
Linebacker is an area that needs a ton of work and development, and I do not believe that Wes Goodwin is the man to do that. Wes has obvious qualities that Coach Swinney sees in him, and that is why he was hired as the DC. He is a natural analyst which makes him great at drawing up plays because he can read an offense really well. However, his efforts in developing the linebacker corps have not taken off quite like we need right now. Then again, Coach Swinney always has an exit interview with each and every staff member and player at the end of each season. I believe that they know the issues that need to be addressed and will establish a plan and execute.
One thing I know about Coach Swinney is that he's a fair man. If there's an issue, he will give a coach or player time to fix it, but once that time has expired then Coach Swinney takes a measured action. Sometimes that means having a player removed or a coach replaced.
Imagine that Wes Goodwin develops more this offseason and next year the defense has a 2018ish type of season. What will the fan base say then? Now, imagine that each and every coach that he's hired that have a close relationship decides to stay with Coach Swinney until he retires, and Clemson ends up winning 5 - 6 more national championships.
Clemson's biggest challenge will be keeping its cultural identity in a world where every other team is chasing after the newest shiny object. The best way to do that is to stay the course. Clemson may not hit a stride for another 3-4 seasons, but once they do, they will be THE premier program to play for. On the other side of this, investors who are investing big money to build sustainable success at other programs will soon begin to withdraw their financial support once they realize the diminished returns.
In conclusion, don't try to fix what isn't broken. Clemson has NIL and one of the best in the nation. Clemson is the only school that will dedicate the majority of the revenue share to football. Clemson still has a great development program and can recruit well even in the age of buying players. In other words, Clemson can still compete.
GO TIGERS! BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF EVERYONE!
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Paw Warrior [4673]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO BUILD A PROGRAM
Dec 26, 2024, 2:21 PM
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Wes Goodwin is, I’m sure a great defensive analyst. But he is not a great defensive coordinator. He is not a great linebacker coach.
The weakness on this team has been on the defensive side of the ball.
There are signs the defense is not being managed well, attempts at arm tackling, linebackers not filling gaps, the defensive line getting pushed backwards and all of the grabbing (holding) by DB’s.
You have to start somewhere. Move Wes back to head analyst and hire the best DC you can find.
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