Replies: 72
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Legend [18790]
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All-In [44054]
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Another example of questionable player development by our staff.***
Dec 22, 2021, 11:27 AM
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All-In [43774]
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Him showing up to camp overweight
Dec 22, 2021, 11:37 AM
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was probably not our staff's fault.
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All-In [44054]
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Ahh yes, it’s the player’s fault. Of course.***
Dec 22, 2021, 11:48 AM
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Ahh yes, it’s the player’s fault. Of course.***
Dec 22, 2021, 11:50 AM
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After all of those months off it is.
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All-In [44054]
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Okay.***
Dec 22, 2021, 11:53 AM
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Okay.***
Dec 22, 2021, 11:56 AM
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He wasn't part of the system after the season.
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Legend [18851]
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Re: Okay.***
Jan 3, 2022, 11:56 AM
[ in reply to Okay.*** ] |
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I guess Brownell would have made him from a 5 star to a 2 star by his track record of developing players for the NBA
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Ahh yes, it’s the player’s fault. Of course.***
Dec 22, 2021, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Ahh yes, it’s the player’s fault. Of course.*** ] |
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Bad look, judge. Stop being an idiot...the staff is not responsible for Jackson's weight especially after he is no longer on the team.
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All-In [44054]
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I never said they were directly responsible.
Dec 22, 2021, 12:10 PM
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But isn’t our culture the pride of our program? That culture purports to teach hard work, discipline, and respect. We also have numerous staff devoted to strength and conditioning, wellness, and nutrition to not only help players while they are at Clemson but also to educate them for future endeavors.
It doesn’t reflect well on our program when a player doesn’t perform in the NFL, whether due to subpar football skills, poor work ethic, or both.
Also, there were some questions about his preparedness during the NFL Draft. He clearly had the measurables, but there has always been a question about where he would fit in.
Ultimately, his success or failure mostly depends on him and his work ethic. But the coaching and direction he gets along the way, including at Clemson, certainly plays a role.
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Heisman Winner [140557]
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Re: I never said they were directly responsible.
Dec 22, 2021, 12:17 PM
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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Re: I never said they were directly responsible.
Dec 22, 2021, 12:21 PM
[ in reply to I never said they were directly responsible. ] |
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But isn’t our culture the pride of our program? That culture purports to teach hard work, discipline, and respect. We also have numerous staff devoted to strength and conditioning, wellness, and nutrition to not only help players while they are at Clemson but also to educate them for future endeavors.
It doesn’t reflect well on our program when a player doesn’t perform in the NFL, whether due to subpar football skills, poor work ethic, or both.
Also, there were some questions about his preparedness during the NFL Draft. He clearly had the measurables, but there has always been a question about where he would fit in.
Ultimately, his success or failure mostly depends on him and his work ethic. But the coaching and direction he gets along the way, including at Clemson, certainly plays a role.
So in reading between the lines you will be moving on with Brownell does?
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All-In [39020]
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Well Brownell will never see his players
Dec 22, 2021, 12:47 PM
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Underperforming at the professional level.
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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CU Medallion [53797]
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Are you one of those people that think it is NEVER the
Dec 22, 2021, 12:29 PM
[ in reply to I never said they were directly responsible. ] |
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individuals fault? Good grief. The guy was in our system THREE years. If he didn't absorb the culture and learn to do for himself, IT IS ON HIM.
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All-In [44054]
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Please read better.
Dec 22, 2021, 1:07 PM
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More specifically, my last paragraph in the post you responded to.
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All-In [48345]
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Re: I never said they were directly responsible.
Dec 22, 2021, 12:56 PM
[ in reply to I never said they were directly responsible. ] |
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Yeah, everyone will TD. Showing up to camp overweight IS on him. Does it reflect bad on Clemson, yes. We already get hammered on our oline or lack thereof in recruiting. So any little thing like this that comes out is further reinforcement. It doesn't help when Dabo raves about how good he is... Which, that's Dabo. He says that about every player. JLay was gonna storm the field and takeover at tight end.
So, if you read carefully what I'm saying, that's Dabo's DNA. It's great to be that way but sometimes it could hurt.
Obviously, Carmen ended up playing which he wouldn't if he'd been out of shape. So when he did get his chance to play, he didn't grade well. Agree, it's all on him, but sadly it's more ammo against us in recruiting.
Not sure what it is, but whoever is either teaching our oline or vetting during recruiting isn't getting it done. If they were, our 2 2020 oline recruits Mayes and byrns would be playing. It's systemic. I can't speak for jk, but imo, that's what I read into his comments. Most of which are spot on if you read it without preconceptions.
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All-In [44054]
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Thank you. That’s exactly my point.***
Dec 22, 2021, 1:10 PM
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CU Guru [1150]
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Re: I never said they were directly responsible.
Dec 22, 2021, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to I never said they were directly responsible. ] |
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It's the kids fault dude. I don't know how in the world you could argue with the culture we have here. Get a life
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All-In [44054]
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I think our culture is outstanding.
Dec 22, 2021, 2:27 PM
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I’m very proud of it.
But when we’ve had multiple underachieving players in the NFL recently, at some point you can’t just default to all of them being lazy.
Of all of our players drafted over the last ten years, how many have met or exceeded expectations, versus been disappointments? It feels like we have had more than our share of underachievers, but maybe I’m wrong.
Again, Jackson’s case seems to be mostly his own doing. But it still reflects on our program, whether we like it or not.
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CU Guru [1150]
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Re: I think our culture is outstanding.
Dec 22, 2021, 3:20 PM
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You could look at any school and find players who did not pan out in the NFL. The NFL is freaking hard to stand out in. You criticizing our culture for players not panning out in the NFL is a pretty terrible argument in my opinion and I don't know what you are trying to prove by harping on it. That the NFL is hard?
We have also had players who I did not think would be great in the NFL that have turned out to be great pickups, i.e. Jaron Brown, Bashaud Breeland, DJ Reader and I am sure I am leaving out a lot.
How many great Bama players have gone into obscurity after going to the NFL as well.
I don't know why you think its a great idea to criticize our culture when the only reason we have two national championships is because of culture.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: I think our culture is outstanding.
Dec 23, 2021, 2:45 AM
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I can’t recall a single Clemson o-lineman who has made a Pro-Bowl in my lifetime.
It is absolutely amazing to have such a high level of team success, steady high end NFL talent at every single other position group, and barely any successful linemen. Simpson may be the best in the last 30 years…
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110%er [6281]
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Re: I think our culture is outstanding.
Dec 22, 2021, 10:41 PM
[ in reply to I think our culture is outstanding. ] |
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Some of our guys don't pan out but then we have plenty of guys who do. It is what it is. Mac Alexander, AJ Terrell, Wilkins, Watkins, Reader, DW, Renfrew, Mike Williams, Adam Humphries, Tee Higgins, along with others are all having wonderful careers that prove our staff prepared them well enough to succeed.
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Varsity [204]
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Re: I think our culture is outstanding.
Dec 23, 2021, 9:01 PM
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Agree with you on several of our players have had success in the NFL but there is no question that we have some that have severe character flaws. DW4, Mike Williams, Dion Cain, etc. Then there is Fred Davis II, Yusef Kelly, Dickerson/Lewis/White, Derion Kendrick, Johnson/Fuller, etc that all have been arrested for some minor, some serious issues.
I'm about as optimistic a tiger fan as you can imagine but I'm really starting to get worried. Is our program as pure as Dabo wants us to believe? Statistics would tell you differently and that bothers me. The one that bothers me the most is Deshaun. It's still hard for me to fathom why he would do what he did.
Hopefully, I'm just overreacting but the more you look, the more concerned I get, especially with such a high turnover within the Athletic Dept.
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All-In [28415]
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Freshman [-99]
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He always had the physical gifts but
Dec 22, 2021, 10:09 PM
[ in reply to I never said they were directly responsible. ] |
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Even while at Clemson it was obvious his heart wasn’t 100% into football. I never questioned his physical talents or ability, but I did question his heart. His desire.
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CU Guru [1674]
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Re: I never said they were directly responsible.
Dec 22, 2021, 10:30 PM
[ in reply to I never said they were directly responsible. ] |
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The FB staff is certainly not infallible, but I think you are reaching in being this overly critical.
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Orange Blooded [2306]
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Re: I never said they were directly responsible.
Dec 22, 2021, 10:47 PM
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It’s his thing. Judge gets offended if brownell or basketball are criticized yet he takes a swipe at football program when ever he gets a chance.
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110%er [6281]
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110%er [7998]
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Re: Ahh yes, it’s the player’s fault. Of course.***
Dec 22, 2021, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Ahh yes, it’s the player’s fault. Of course.*** ] |
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once again you are a moron. How can it be our staff's fault that Carmen is struggling with his weight as it has been a problem since HS? Clemson provide healthy meals at the paw bistro plus has a nutritionist on staff. Once he leaves the management of his weight is on him as you well know.
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All-In [44054]
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It’s not our fault.
Dec 22, 2021, 1:11 PM
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As I said in the post you clearly didn’t read closely, his success or failure is ultimately on him.
However, his performance in the NFL does reflect on Clemson. After all, he was a highly touted receipt and was in our program several years.
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Letterman [278]
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Re: It’s not our fault.
Dec 23, 2021, 8:02 PM
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Seems to me his employer would be who it looks bad on. They are the ones paying him to do a job. If he doesn't comply he will be out of a job. I guess it's Florida and Ohio State's fault Urban Meyer couldn't get it do e at Jacksonville right?
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Re: Him showing up to camp overweight
Dec 23, 2021, 12:18 PM
[ in reply to Him showing up to camp overweight ] |
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You should ignore the troll. It's not scary enough to actually understand how the real world works.
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CU Medallion [52440]
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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All-In [44054]
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Tell ‘em, homer!***
Dec 22, 2021, 12:11 PM
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CU Guru [1211]
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Re: Tell ‘em, homer!***
Dec 22, 2021, 12:23 PM
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Shame on you.. now you've done it. No soup for YOU!!! Now all the homers are telling all the other homers to come on here and give you what for.... .. You dared to have a different opinion, and that is not what the world is about right now. OBEDIANCE and SUBMISSION is all we desire.
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All-TigerNet [13700]
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Re: Tell ‘em, homer!***
Dec 22, 2021, 12:34 PM
[ in reply to Tell ‘em, homer!*** ] |
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No, after you. You’re doing just fine on your own here.
Please continue.
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CU Guru [1983]
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Re: Another example of questionable player development by our staff.***
Dec 22, 2021, 12:11 PM
[ in reply to Another example of questionable player development by our staff.*** ] |
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Talent has never been an issue with him. It's always been work ethic and drive/motivation. That's why his performance fell off his last year. How in the world is the staff at fault?! So at what point is the staff no long responsible for his actions/outcomes? When is Jackson held accountable? Get real JK....i thought you were kidding at first but i see you're not.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
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CU Guru [1211]
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Re: Another example of questionable player development by our staff.***
Dec 22, 2021, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to Another example of questionable player development by our staff.*** ] |
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LOL.. HOW DARE YOU QUESTION DABO AND HIS STAFF.. Don't you know they are untouchable Gods that never make mistakes and we should all bow down in their presence. How fortunate we are that because they won two national championships they can never again make mistakes. You should turn in your Clemson card and stick you head in the sand and pretend everything is ok. And before you say it.. our recruiting is right on track and the transfer portal and NIL are non issues for our program because Dabo and the staff have told us so. Anything other than blind obedience and acceptance must mean you are a coot.
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Orange Blooded [3627]
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Re: Another example of questionable player development by our staff.***
Dec 22, 2021, 3:27 PM
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You’ve been here before huh?
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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All-In [43774]
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HOWS HE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT WHEN
Dec 22, 2021, 1:02 PM
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WE ONLY PAY ASSISTANT COACHES AN AVERAGE SALARY?????????????
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Oculus Spirit [82069]
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And Littlejohn, don't forget Littlejohn!
Dec 22, 2021, 2:11 PM
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No AC, linolium floors in the lockeroom, broken locks on the bathroom stalls.
How can we even begin to THINK about winning in a dump like that??
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Orange Blooded [3627]
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Re: HOWS HE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT WHEN
Dec 22, 2021, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to HOWS HE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT WHEN ] |
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TE was highly paid, and our offense almost made it to the top hundred in CFB.
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Heisman Winner [140557]
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All-In [44054]
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When has Brownell had the nation’s best facilities, one of the highest budgets
Dec 22, 2021, 2:31 PM
[ in reply to When's the last time Brownell and his staff developed an ] |
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and rabid fan support?
Even the best recruiters like Dabo have to have the bells and whistles.
I think we can all agree that recruiting is the main thing Brad needs to improve upon, but player development is where he shines.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: When has Brownell had the nation’s best facilities, one of the highest budgets
Dec 22, 2021, 2:41 PM
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Dabo earned those things. He didn't have him when he took the job, either.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Dabo had a rabid fan base when he took over. The others he
Dec 22, 2021, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to When has Brownell had the nation’s best facilities, one of the highest budgets ] |
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fought and clawed for and increased with success. He also pulled some pretty big recruits prior to having those things in place.
Also, if player development is where he shines then where are the draft picks? There are plenty of developmental stories(non 4 and 5 star recruits) for the football program.
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CU Guru [1211]
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Re: Dabo had a rabid fan base when he took over. The others he
Dec 22, 2021, 9:54 PM
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I will respectfully disagree. The West End Zone project was well underway long before Dabo was coach. The other things came with new athletic dept leadership. I do agree that Dabo has earned his reputation as an excellent coach but the facility improvements were likely coming anyway. We also got improvements to Doug Kingsmore and haven't sniffed CWS in several years as well as Littlejohn improvements. So to give Dabo credit for the upgrades rings a little hollow.
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Legend [16912]
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Legend [16262]
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All-In [44054]
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The Dabo Bros. try to make me look bad
Dec 22, 2021, 2:34 PM
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because their rules state that nothing bad can ever be said about our football program.
All other programs at Clemson are fair game to whine and moan about, but not football. It’s perfect!
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Legend [16912]
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Re: The Dabo Bros. try to make me look bad
Jan 3, 2022, 11:04 AM
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you do a fine job making yourself look bad.
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110%er [6982]
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110%er [5101]
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 22, 2021, 11:35 AM
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No doubt, sounds like he got lazy and fat. Hopefully he will get it together.
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CU Guru [1074]
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 22, 2021, 12:02 PM
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Athletes get used to a daily schedule of calories in, effort out. When this changes due to illness, injury, graduation, seasons ending etc and they aren't working out as much, they HAVE to stop putting the same amount of calories in or else.
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CU Guru [1858]
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 22, 2021, 11:40 AM
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Meh. Too early to tell with some of those guys. I have always questioned Carmen's drive to be great. He was blessed with great size and good athleticism. But you gotta love to really grind and prep at the next level to be a consistent starter. If you threw Mac Jones on the Jets and Wilson to the Pats, Jones would be on that list. The Jets are a dumpster fire and have been for years. No QB could win there, not even Brady.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 22, 2021, 11:40 AM
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Those guys aren't done. They still can be good.
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Legend [18790]
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Yeah I think so too....
Dec 22, 2021, 11:53 AM
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I remember that our staff was on him about his weight. He needs that push from the staff where he is now.
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110%er [6104]
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 22, 2021, 11:53 AM
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Surprised TL isn’t on there given his performance but I hope it’s coaching related for him.
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Legend [18790]
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 22, 2021, 11:53 AM
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I think you need to give Trevor time. I think he'll be great.
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Commissioner [931]
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 22, 2021, 12:03 PM
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I haven't read the article but based on his career at Clemson, if it talks about being flagged for holding I am sure it is correct.
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Orange Blooded [3047]
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 23, 2021, 2:25 PM
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Do you blame a kid's high school when he doesn't pan out in college? Some players from all schools who enter the NFL will have trouble and not make it. In all cases I would not place blame on the school.
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CU Guru [1100]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 765
Joined: 12/11/13
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Re: People or person
Dec 22, 2021, 1:00 PM
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in their ear telling them they are ready when they are not in some cases.
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Team Captain [451]
TigerPulse: 86%
Posts: 307
Joined: 10/3/00
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Re: People or person
Dec 22, 2021, 1:22 PM
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Let's breakdown Brownell "developed" players in the NBA.....Are there currently any playing professional ball in the US?
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Orange Blooded [2987]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 1869
Joined: 9/20/21
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 22, 2021, 2:16 PM
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“Another example of questionable player development by our staff.”
“I never said they were directly responsible.”
Laughable!
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Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 794
Joined: 7/30/12
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 23, 2021, 3:04 PM
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Judge has a problem......You can't fix stupid or people with an agenda.
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Commissioner [931]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 844
Joined: 1/2/18
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Carman never...
Dec 22, 2021, 3:37 PM
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...displayed that 5-star talent coming to Clemson. IMO...he was overhyped. I always saw him as too fat and lazy. This is on him and not the coaches!!
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Orange Blooded [4789]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/8/19
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Re: Jackson Carman, yikes! Not a list you want to be on!
Dec 23, 2021, 3:29 PM
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I was shocked he got drafted as high as he did. That was a product of his HS ranking more than anything he did at Clemson. I'm not shocked at how things have gone for him thus far.
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