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Paw Master [17540]
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So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:28 PM
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The lawsuit was just filed today, and it seems like a longshot, that may not even make it to a courtroom.
I want what is best for Clemson, and clearly our leadership is convinced that what is best for Clemson is NOT the ACC. Fingers crossed for a successful outcome, but I will also brace myself for the possibility of Clemson being a disillusioned but continuing member of the ACC. THAT BELL CAN’t be unruly; as Dabo might say, “We’re ALL IN”
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Clemson Conqueror [11360]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:32 PM
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There is a reason ESPN doesn’t want their sode leaked… we gone and it’s gonna be easy
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Paw Master [17540]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Hope youre right***
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:40 PM
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Solid Orange [1337]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC ] |
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Nobody likes fine print of contract agreements spread if they are in a competitive business...little things can mean a lot...profit or pain...I still don't think that the ACC as a football conference is worth the ad $ that the SEC is worth...without Clemson it is ### near pitiful!
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Paw Warrior [4956]
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Standout [230]
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I think Clemson is just doing its due diligence.
Mar 20, 2024, 9:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC ] |
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I read the law suite (minus the redacted stuff), and I would summarize it as Clemson politely asking for the courts to clarify the contract because of some vague points. Using these vague points as cover, this allows a court to step in and rule. The facts will then be on the table, and there is no more guess work for anyone. If Clemson gets a favorable ruling, that might be the leverage to get more money from the conference. Maybe we could stay. It also may be what is needed to make the determination to jump to another conference. Hopefully this provides the info to make the best decision.
One item that I think Clemson donors should ask about is in regard to the ACCs operating cost, and how it's used with a multiplier to seek a large withdrawal penalty/payment. Clemson is using an argument that it would not have been able to know how much the ACCs operating budget would increase over 10 years.
I think in 2013 it was 17million. If you allow for inflation/ etc (2% target) that would mean the operating budget would be about 23-24 Millon today. The ACCs operating budget is 47 million. Why is it so much more? Where is the oversite from the conference's members in regard to this "non-profits" cost to operate? How has the scope of the conference increased by 2-fold? That is another 2 million a year roughly to each member. If we are so concerned about the money, begs to ask, what is going on?
This is what is making me sick about College Athletics. It was always a slush fund for the people running the show. And the excess is crazy. The kids/ athletes see this as well. And they are now asking/ what about me? How much of this increase in operating budget is "fat"? This money is supposed to be about enriching the schools. These people are placed in charge of a lot of state-owned universities and are supposed to be making sound fiscal decisions for the betterment of the school. I hope that is happening. But looking at just some top sheet numbers, my eyebrow is definitely raised.
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Ring of Honor [22708]
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Ring of Honor [22195]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Apr 2, 2023, 4:13 PM
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So you really think Clemson did their due diligence behind the scenes and came to this position based on a long shot?? This isn’t something they just woke up and decided to do, there has to be a reason they staid quiet for so long.
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Team Captain [481]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
Mar 19, 2024, 7:45 PM
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Good point. Even MSM noticed we were a bit too quiet.
How clad is an ironclad contract?
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Paw Master [17540]
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Of course not; we obviously feel like we are on solid legal ground
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC ] |
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But so does the conference. Someone wins, someone loses, and the stakes are high. Maybe “long shot” was a poor choice of words, but it is certainly not a sure thing IMHO.
I long ago made a personal policy of not betting on Clemson sporting events. If I bet on us to win and we lose, I lose twice. And I could NEVER bet against us. Winning that bet would be a hollow victory. So I won’t bet on an outcome on this one, either, but I bet the odds are not in our favor.
As I have said many times, I have great confidence in our leadership, and will always be a Tiger regardless of the outcome, so count me as cautiously optimistic.
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Athletic Dir [1113]
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Re: Of course not; we obviously feel like we are on solid legal ground
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:17 PM
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Most of these disputes are resolved before it ever gets to trial. Be optimistic I am glad we have finally acted. Curious to see who else joins in.
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Game Day Hero [4112]
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Mjc3194 why is that so hard to believe?
Mar 19, 2024, 8:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC ] |
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You think Clemson couldn't make that big of a bonehead move? Remember they signed that horrible GoR that got us in this mess in the first place. If the same people are in charge now, we are in trouble!
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Clemson Conqueror [11360]
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Says the guy or girl
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:16 PM
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Who wears a mask alone in their car
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Clemson Icon [26209]
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Re: Says the guy or girl
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:45 PM
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🤣
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Athletic Dir [1113]
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Solid Orange [1337]
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Re: Mjc3194 why is that so hard to believe?
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:50 PM
[ in reply to Mjc3194 why is that so hard to believe? ] |
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The GOR meant MO money at the time...after SEC and BIG deals it looked as bad as BC vs Syracuse in the rain on a Saturday afternoon! We don't have the draw of most of the SEC schools...how many buttons fit in seats at BC, Wake, Duke, Cuse...even Virginia and Miami look anemic...how about FSU and the sunbathing bookworm...when we up our game we will get more money!
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Ring of Honor [22195]
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Re: Mjc3194 why is that so hard to believe?
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:21 PM
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You have zero understanding of brand or ratings if you think we aren’t as big of a draw as most sec schools. It’s really confusing seeing Clemson fans having such a diminished view of their own team.
Message was edited by: Mjc3194®
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CU Guru [1574]
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Re: Mjc3194 why is that so hard to believe?
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Mar 20, 2024, 8:31 AM
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You also can't look at it through orange colored glasses. The problem is, Alabama can suck for 10 years, and they are still Alabama. They will still draw ratings. If we have another Bowden or West-like run, we won't.
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Ring of Honor [22195]
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Re: Mjc3194 why is that so hard to believe?
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Mar 20, 2024, 1:52 PM
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You also have to understand this isn’t the 90s, this generation only knows Clemson as Clemson. There’s a reason why HS players always have us ranked in the top of college programs. I’m not looking at anything in orange glasses these are facts that can easily be proven. For some reason Clemson fans struggle with imposter syndrome.
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Tiger Titan [50651]
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Clemson Icon [26209]
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Re: Sort of like we did our due diligence before signing the agreement
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:46 PM
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Still taking shots I see!!!!!!
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Orange Blooded [2265]
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Tiger Cub [13]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
Mar 19, 2024, 9:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC ] |
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I think the reason for staying so quiet for so long was to get the lawsuit filed BEFORE the ACC files their counter suit.
Clemson will unquestionably have a seat at the P2 table when this is all through. The question for Tiger fans is, "Do you prefer the B10 or SEC?"
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CU Guru [1574]
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Orange Blooded [2206]
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Wake up. We're leaving.***
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:44 PM
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National Champion [8074]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:50 PM
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I agree. We are a LONG way from being out. This litigation will be costly and long.
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Oculus Spirit [44289]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 19, 2024, 7:57 PM
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Just the next step… no timeframe but things could happen quickly or this thing could be tied up for years.
ACC and ESPN will probably pay top dollar to keep their secrets.
Dang shame it had to come too this and whomever signed on to this hopefully is no longer employed.
ACC talked about changing up the revenue sharing but it has since been swept under the rug I’m guessing. You need to be sure those that bring money into the conference should be compensated a little better than those that contribute zero.
Lot of takers in every conference. (i.e.,SC in the SEC)
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Orange Blooded [2270]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:04 PM
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I'm not a lawyer but I don't think we have a great legal argument. It's just a bad deal for us. On the other hand the whole thing could become too ugly for the ACC or ESPN to allow it to go on. It is inevitable. Money will change hands and we'll go.
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Solid Orange [1337]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
Mar 19, 2024, 8:36 PM
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We seem to have more substance in our pleading...real meaning and asking the ACC to state in plain language what the language of the agreements means to Clemson! Am disappointed in this but willing to give it a chance...You are only as honest as your ability to do what you say you are going to do! I don't want CCC pulling a FSWTC and
becoming an Indian giver! if we leave we will not find friends in OSU or theSEC bums! Their idea of academics is not in line with the ACC!
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Tiger Titan [50651]
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I dont think it helps our case that all ACC member institutions
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC ] |
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willingly and eagerly signed this agreement.
No one forced us. We chose to do it. It was a bad deal for us, but crying foul now is ridiculous.
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All-American [573]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: I dont think it helps our case that all ACC member institutions
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Mar 19, 2024, 8:52 PM
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Well if Trump can get found guilty with no real charges in Manhattan then Clemson should get a win in Pickens. Your saying there's a chance?
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Valley Legend [12432]
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Re: I dont think it helps our case that all ACC member institutions
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:27 PM
[ in reply to I dont think it helps our case that all ACC member institutions ] |
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willingly and eagerly signed this agreement.
No one forced us. We chose to do it. It was a bad deal for us, but crying foul now is ridiculous.
It does not help or hurt our case as the landscape was much different than when the contract was signed. There will be a settlement and we will be out. Only question is how much and that depends on the legal arguments and how much heat the ACC can absorb.
One other point as you seem inexperienced with contracts. Contesting contracts happens all the time because the conditions the contract was built on are ever changing. Sone changes can be absorbed, some require a contract modification and others are a deal breaker. A contract is not a suicide pact where one party has to go down with the ship due to things outside of their control.
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All-Conference [444]
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Re: I dont think it helps our case that all ACC member institutions
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:46 PM
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First time I have ever seen you disagree with the JK… But I loved every word of it. Agree with you 100%.
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CU Guru [1574]
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Re: I dont think it helps our case that all ACC member institutions
Mar 20, 2024, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: I dont think it helps our case that all ACC member institutions ] |
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It does hurt the case. It's not as easy as just saying there will be a settlement. It would be suicide for the ACC to settle. They are going to fight tooth and nail to the end.
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Clemson Icon [24205]
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That's why we are claiming (which seems silly) that what we agreed to was
Mar 20, 2024, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to I dont think it helps our case that all ACC member institutions ] |
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different than what they say we agreed to. We are trying to argue that the Grant of Rights only applies if we are still in the conference... which is obviously not the intent of the contract.
I think the best we (and FSU) can hope for is a settlement that sees us paying a ton of money to the remaining teams of the conference.
This is why we didn't want to expand the conference with SMU and Stanford because it will be more bribes to pay.
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All-TigerNet [5666]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 19, 2024, 9:54 PM
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Grif…. this is incorrect. Not a long shot
We are gone regardless
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National Champion [7985]
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Once they added SMU, CAl, and STanford i was all out on the ACC.
Mar 20, 2024, 8:38 AM
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its what you end up with b/c you weren't proactive enough early in the process.
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Game Changer [1971]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 20, 2024, 8:47 AM
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Stick around and watch as espn decides not to renew ACC contract.
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Varsity [206]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
Mar 20, 2024, 11:32 AM
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Or they use the extension/renewal as a bargaining chip to placate the ACC to go along with Clemson and FSU departing to the SEC. Keep the same TV deal and maybe sell GoRs to the SEC (private sale btwn private entities so remaining ACC members don't know the price tag to leave). Meanwhile Clemson and FSU agree to 3/4 payout for 5 seasons as a 'buy in' to the SEC.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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We are OUT of the ACC
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Mar 20, 2024, 11:35 AM
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Just a matter of if it is 2028 or before (I believe the courts will at the very least rule that the contract is not binding til 2036 based on there not being a existing ESPN agreement beyond 2028.)
Now that we have sued the conference there is no remaining in the conference long term. We are OUT.
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CU Guru [1209]
TigerPulse: 89%
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There will be a settlement and we are gone.
Mar 20, 2024, 5:08 PM
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The ACC is dying.
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Orange Blooded [2485]
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Re: So many are convinced that we are OUT of the ACC
Mar 20, 2024, 5:38 PM
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We will see when happens or it will happen when it happens.
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Replies: 41
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